Quote from: Iiyola on October 14, 2015, 05:19:42 PM
I'm not even sure why I'm still reading this. It's the same stuff all over again with each page. Just play the game, have fun. Or don't and find something else to do.

Part of being a social creature means that we like to talk, bitch, praise, complaint, rant and stomps our feet about stuff that we love and our passionate about, and a forum is a place that allows us to do so - It's been part of human history for thousands of years.

If we don't talk about this (even if we repeat ourselves constantly), we'll just talk about something else that might get on someone else's nerves, but some of us are just babbling among one another in this thread and we're not harming anyone doing so.

You're probably still reading this for the same reason that we're still writing about this - humans are attracted to car wrecks!

(it also keeps me sane while I'm trying to remember hundred of Japanese names and dates, so please bare with me )

Quote from: Ath on October 14, 2015, 03:15:47 PM
My question here for you is have you tried any of this?  A Noble or Templar could easily give you a title of "Kank Wrangler" but that doesn't mean anyone is going to care, unless it was backed by the Highborn.  As for becoming a Noble, that just isn't possible within the documentation/culture of Allanak.  I mean, unless you can beat a Black Robe in a card game and win a Title or if Tek decides it.  Have you ever approached a Noble and said, hey... I have this great idea to make money and steal from all these peoples, I just need your help.. blah blah blah.  If I was playing a Noble and if some commoner came to me with a way that I could make some coins and then blame the commoner and have them killed if they screw up, yes I would do it!  Who is going to believe the pissant of a commoner over my word?  No one.

I have.

People, players and staff included, are resistant to the accumulation of soft power.  In essence, they resist the efforts of people to accomplish things or influence regional politics that fall outside of the Funnel.  

In some cases people react with outright hostility, they assume that Salarr is going to crush every single solitary arms peddlar, no matter how small, etc.

Does anyone remember the Black Scrabs?  They were pretty cool, right?  Made a few waves for a bit.  But they're kind of the exception that proves the rule.  

It seems that the climate is changing, that people are now more open to the story of "Independent dude rallies a bunch of friends, goes off and has some fun and adventures, leaves a small mark on the game-world, retires after seventeen or eighteen days played."

You know what I think would help?  If staff would give a token blessing to people who were making an effort to do things.  Remember the example of the guys who tried to start a brewery?  I think it would be cool if like, early in the foundation of something like that, maybe one of the staff members could animate a noble.  The noble could walk up to the brewer in front of a bunch of people, and place an order for a single keg of booze and pay for it.

This would send a powerful signal to people.  Maybe the brewer isn't a stupid nobody.  Sure, he's still a dirty unwashed commoner, but maybe he has a place in the world.  

Of course people could still rob him, could still extort him, could still fight him over his little place in the world.  Success would bring it's own set of perils.  

Why doesn't he just get a PC noble to back him?

I know nobles in game right now who would back him like a bone-studded backpack if he came up and showed he knew how to actually get things done.

This is the whole point of the Player Clan System.  I will admit not every concept works great with it, but you could work towards something like a brewery.  The problem with this particular one is the difficulty of making new liquids in the game, right now there is no easy way to do it and requires a coder to do it.  So the MC system might not be the best thing for this.  It's rough, I love the concept, I could see it happening in game, but we're limited in execution a bit.  The concept of a Minor Merchant House is that they are have a single specialty of some sort that they base their existence off of.  Working to that goal is not supposed to be easy or quick.  Making a mark on the world shouldn't be easy or quick.

If you have some ideas that you want to try in game, I ask you to drop me a line via the request tool.  I'd be happy to discuss them with you so we don't have to worry about crossing into IC areas.  Put is in as Clan Related (Unclanned) Question/Request.  Reasonable requests will be answered, if you give me some far out ones, I'll just respond and close.  I'm trying to be serious here, if you have questions or ideas you want to try, ask.

Quote from: Iiyola on October 14, 2015, 05:19:42 PM
I'm not even sure why I'm still reading this. It's the same stuff all over again with each page. Just play the game, have fun. Or don't and find something else to do.

Probably not the best idea to dismiss people when the player count is getting uncomfortably low.

If we listen to every bitch and moan because the player count seems low, then the terrorists win.

If a deaf ear is turned to all "bitches and moans", no one wins.

Quote from: Rathustra on October 14, 2015, 12:18:28 PMThere are things in the wastes that literally none of us know the story behind.

There are some "mysteries" in the game that are only mysteries because the people who knew about them don't play anymore - or their current characters have no reason to know about them, and therefore they don't talk about it. I know about quite a few things, from first-hand interaction, that no one ever mentions in-game, that I haven't even heard about on the GDB, that are no longer in the official docs - and the original docs are long gone because they were part of the old website and password protected.

So - if you -think- I might know about anything you're curious about, feel free to hit me with a vague query. If I know what you're talking about I'm more than happy to fill you in. I'd send this as a request, but I don't know how to send a "request to offer assistance if you request it, Rathustra" request

Quote from: Eyeball on October 14, 2015, 06:11:20 PM

Quote from: Iiyola on October 14, 2015, 05:19:42 PM
I'm not even sure why I'm still reading this. It's the same stuff all over again with each page. Just play the game, have fun. Or don't and find something else to do.

Probably not the best idea to dismiss people when the player count is getting uncomfortably low.

OMG the player count is low!  Arm is dying!  Just because people are talking about it, doesn't make it true.  There are always peaks and valleys.

Quote from: Eyeball on October 14, 2015, 06:16:05 PM
If a deaf ear is turned to all "bitches and moans", no one wins.

If only staff turn a deaf ear. It doesn't really concern the rest of the GDB community other than to better refine ideas though discussion.

Quote from: BadSkeelz on October 14, 2015, 06:14:21 PM
If we listen to every bitch and moan because the player count seems low, then the terrorists win.

Terrorists kill people. To my knowledge, no lives are lost in GDB discussions. You do make a good point in that it'd be nice if the signal to noise ratio on the GDB was lower.

I liked Tuluk 2007. That was a good time.

Quote from: Ath on October 14, 2015, 06:33:48 PM

OMG the player count is low!  Arm is dying!  Just because people are talking about it, doesn't make it true.  There are always peaks and valleys.

Ehh... It's a bit quantifiable that we're seeing some pretty low lows lately.  Looking at the data it'd be good to figure out why and both staff and players can do to help.

2013 was our best year ever.  I attribute that mostly to a really awesome voting drive on both TMS and TMC as well as build up and execution of our last major HRPT.  For the last two years we've seen a pretty steady downward trend.

Tuluk's closure created interest again, but that interest has waned a bit since then as our weekly unique logins have reached four year lows.

Quote from: Ender on October 14, 2015, 06:49:13 PM

Quote from: Ath on October 14, 2015, 06:33:48 PM

OMG the player count is low!  Arm is dying!  Just because people are talking about it, doesn't make it true.  There are always peaks and valleys.

Ehh... It's a bit quantifiable that we're seeing some pretty low lows lately.  Looking at the data it'd be good to figure out why and both staff and players can do to help.

2013 was our best year ever.  I attribute that mostly to a really awesome voting drive on both TMS and TMC as well as build up and execution of our last major HRPT.  For the last two years we've seen a pretty steady downward trend.

Tuluk's closure created interest again, but that interest has waned a bit since then as our weekly unique logins have reached four year lows.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here to say that it's going down because Tuluk's closed.

Quote from: AdamBlue on October 14, 2015, 07:01:51 PM

I'm gonna go out on a limb here to say that it's going down because Tuluk's closed.

That doesn't make a lot of sense as during the time Tuluk was closing we had huge numbers, and they kept up for a while after.

I do think Tuluk closing is related to our recent drop in numbers, but I don't think it's a direct relationship.

One of the things I experienced, or maybe not Idk also hey I'm posting after a while whats up, that kinda dissapointed me was I underestimated or atleast didn't think the game would be soooooo "Can't do it becuase of your class can't do it at all bby"
Scenario set up as
"Hey can I learn how to do X"
"No"

It's so damn heartbreaking.
If I wake up one day in real life and decide "I really want to box" I can learn to box. In Arm god just tells me I'm a bitch(not literally) and that he isn't real because the true god is too busy killing dirty Tuluki people in his Dargon form.

I like how the thread went to "Arm is dying" though. Kinda funny.

Quote from: Narf on October 14, 2015, 07:14:06 PM

Quote from: AdamBlue on October 14, 2015, 07:01:51 PM

I'm gonna go out on a limb here to say that it's going down because Tuluk's closed.

That doesn't make a lot of sense as during the time Tuluk was closing we had huge numbers, and they kept up for a while after.

I do think Tuluk closing is related to our recent drop in numbers, but I don't think it's a direct relationship.

Maybe my own experience can be applied to others who "left" the game as well, or not...

When they closed Tuluk, I returned to the game because I was excited by Talia's speech and such, and also because I thought that it was time for me to give Allanak a real good try, but I ended up not liking Allanak that much..

To me, what always brought me back to the game was Tuluk. If I read a good book and wanted to make up a character that was sorta like the guy I was reading about, Tuluk was it.

If I read about a great leader that I wanted to emulate, Tuluk was it. If I wanted to just netflix n' chill while killing stuff, Tuluk's grasslands was it.

Even if Tuluk was 'meh' for a lot of people, it's what always brought me back to the game and where I've always had the most fun, even when it was uber boring.

I don't like Allanak, I can't explain why, I just don't ok? I don't like Luir's either because it's so empty and 'dull', but I understand why people like both, I really do.

So if people who were purely Tuluk fan didn't get hooked on Allanak, then they probably just left because nothing is really bringing them back.

The only recent time I enjoyed Allanak was mostly because I was spending 90% of my time in the Byn compound or outside on suicidal missions. I will admit that I was really surprised at how much I liked the Byn.

So maybe I should give Allanak another shot but it's just not -grabbing- me back to Arm the way Tuluk used to, if it makes sense?

I only liked Tuluk cause of fruit trees being my primary source of life.

Although there are usually downturns at the start of school up until midterms time, I think the most important factor to keeping player numbers up is regular voting. Even when player counts are relatively low, the players that are logging in are regular, consistent players, with none to a few new players. New players make the difference between 40 and 60 players at peak - either those trying out the game for the first time or those deciding to settle in, increasing the amount of regulars. That is why I've made it a morning activity for myself to bump the vote thread, and I will be doing it from the start of November as well to hopefully make the effects fully felt.

Hopefully you will also vote and spread word of the game through other means, if possible!

Quote from: Ath on October 14, 2015, 06:33:48 PM
OMG the player count is low!  Arm is dying!  Just because people are talking about it, doesn't make it true.  There are always peaks and valleys.

Not trying to get mixed up in anything here, but this seems like it's a lot of closing your eyes and pretending a problem isn't there.



I haven't played Arm for decades or whatever like some people have, and I don't know why like others claim to, but it doesn't take much to tell that that's historically low. This situation is very real and it definitely feels so in-game.

Nice stats--they look like they are compiled from reported unique logins per week.

2013 -- yes, voting was great that year, but we never got back to consistent voting every month on TMS/TMC in 2014 or 2015.  That is very likely the root cause.  It's pretty easy to vote on TMC and TMS, but I definitely got tired of reminding everyone to do it.

Comparison:

2013
September total:  434 new accounts
TMS -- 49 (11.3%)
TMC -- 154 (35.5%)
friends/etc. -- 44 (10.1%)
Made a character/logged into the game:  78 (18% of total new accounts)
Retained player grep 1 (was still playing in the following month even though they created in this one):  7
Unique logins (avg): 284.75 per week

2015
September total:  159 new accounts
TMS -- 17
TMC -- ~60 (being generous, there was some overlap between TMS/TMC)
friends/etc. -- 15?  (I didn't dig too much into this one, I have to go soon, so it may be higher)
Made a character/logged into the game:  38
Retained from September to within the past few days:  7 (one with about 6 hours played, one with about 14 hours played, the rest clocking more than 2 days)
Unique logins (avg):  211.25 per week

Comparing those two months, it's about the same in terms of retained players (new players that logged in a lot that kept playing).

This is a good example of something that was definitely better before and now it is terrible:  voting.  We possess the means to stay at #1 on TMC and attract the eye of players that find that site (because they google MUDs).  We also possess the means to stay in the top 10 on TMS (if not the top 5, or #2 indefinitely until other MUDs realize we're actually trying again--that's what happened last time, after a few months they started voting competitively!).  

There's definitely two things I would guesstimate are at play here, and both would be backed by the data...

One is that voting drives unique player logins all by itself; that accounts for some bulk from new players that don't necessarily "know" at a glance that something is going on, they just see a voting rank on a page when they google the game, and they try it out.  You could even (possibly?) correlate the big months with heavy interest by staff/players in boosting vote numbers by getting the vote out there.  

The other is that larger staff-involved events drive player logins.  It's harder to tell in 2013 due to how much we were slaying it with votes, but there was a shit-ton going on in summer/fall of 2013, with staff-led and involved events every week.  2014 is less busy, but still busy at the beginning of the year (mix of drop-off in voting, mix of the events being largely Tuluki).  2014 sees another spike during the Halloween plot that year.  2015 sees a spike around the biggest events in Allanak (reminder to self:  we need to put that on the Chronology page, because it was baller), then a drop off afterwards.

What would help?  Moar votes, and moar plots.  Staff can't run plots indefinitely/all the time because it is really, really draining (and there's build-up and then denouement, and planning, and etc).  TV shows have seasons and downtimes.  Movies are released and then eventually leave the theater, then they show up on blu-ray.  Maybe we can come up with something that works for players and staffers that do this as a hobby, such that it doesn't destroy all of the free time of either...?

Quote from: In Dreams on October 14, 2015, 07:25:47 PM

Quote from: Ath on October 14, 2015, 06:33:48 PM
OMG the player count is low!  Arm is dying!  Just because people are talking about it, doesn't make it true.  There are always peaks and valleys.

Not trying to get mixed up in anything here, but this seems like it's a lot of closing your eyes and pretending a problem isn't there.



I haven't played Arm for decades or whatever like some people have, and I don't know why like others claim to, but it doesn't take much to tell that that's historically low. This situation is very real and it definitely feels so in-game.

The graph on the right is scary, but we are only 1/3 of the way into Fall 2015. There's no way that it can be accurate until AFTER the period it is graphing.

The weird/sad/funny part is that, as the guy who is often mistaken for "someone who hates Armageddon but still continues to bitch on the GDB", I used to vote like 3-4 times a day from different IPs as I was moving along in my day, even when I didn't play, and those votes were often 1/4 of the daily votes total.

Nyr, in answer to your question, maybe those build-ups and denouement could be made more "public" and involve more players in them? I mean we often hear about plots and such that apparently everyone miss on because they don't catch the clue, so as a hopefully helpful advice, maybe have Staff try to find ways to make the before and after of the RPTs more "in-your-face" than subtle and veeeeeeeery slowly creeping on the playerbase?

Quote from: Eyeball on October 14, 2015, 06:11:20 PM

Quote from: Iiyola on October 14, 2015, 05:19:42 PM
I'm not even sure why I'm still reading this. It's the same stuff all over again with each page. Just play the game, have fun. Or don't and find something else to do.

Probably not the best idea to dismiss people when the player count is getting uncomfortably low.

I think Staff has been quite flexible in the past year, having added all sorts of fun things to the game, and they've been far from dismissing people (on the contrary. They've been very open and got a lot more lenient on the GDB too in the 4 years I've been playing). Just some people can never be satisfied because the game isn't running the way they want it to be.

Discussion? Yes. But your reply is exactly the reason why I'd never apply for staff.

When I was seventeen, it was a very good year
It was a very good year for independent rangers
Living for barely one day
Looking for scrabs to slay
With many deaths unforseen
When I was seventeen

When I was twenty-one, it was a very good year
It was a very good year for T'zai Byn Sergeants
Who fought dangerous things
And went on secret missions
Before it all came undone
When I was twenty-one

When I was thirty-five, it was a very good year
It was a very good year for a Dasari Chosen Lord
Who was a real noble clown
Before Tuluk was shut down
And retirement he had to contrive
When I was thirty-five

But now the log in counts are low, Armageddon is in the autumn of it's years
...

Bullshit. Folks grow up, things change. Stop trying to relieve old glories and enjoy what it is now! Out peaks are down a bit.. Boo Hoo. Out peaks used to be quite a bit lower than they are now! Then they got big, then they went down, then they got big.

Halflings used to drink beer in Flints alongside Vivaduan Clerics who worked for Merchants. Yes some players move on, they always will. Things were different in the past, so what? Grow a pair.

TLDR;
Stop being nostalgic old farts and start playing again or bugger off and let those who do want to play do so without random bullshit being bantered about for no good reason.

Cheers,

Bushranger.

Amen, Bushranger.

Also, let's not forget there's a change of Season with Staff. Some are new. Give them a bit of leniency to get into the game (it's hard to believe but staff is only human after all). The player count isn't lower because Staff sucks/are dictators. It's lower because people have other things to do and plot wise it has been a bit quiet (from my humble perspective) because of the above mentioned. That said: I have noticed an increase of animation of the NPC's. So it's getting there.


Moral of the story: just play like you did before. Increase of numbers will increase plot/action/adventure/morale.