Are you saying its impossible to have fun as a Runner?

It depends on the interactions, and activity times / PC population of a clan. It is possible to not have fun as a runner if you are stuck on the compound with solo roleplay for hours. I agree chores are a blast with at least one other player who actually roleplays and doesnt just AFK / idle through them, but if there is never anyone around during the time a player can be logged in, it can easily happen that he / she is having no fun.

If 2 RL weeks is enough to turn something "fun" into something "not fun," I would ask the player, to ask themselves, what they consider "fun" in the first place.

If being a Byn runner is a drudgery for the player, then I suggest they not play in the Byn, no matter how long or short the rank duration.

As a runner, you aren't confined strictly to barracks duty and sparring the entire 6-week real-time period. You have opportunities to get out of town with your group and go on expeditions. This doesn't change.

My concern is with clans that get no pay as recruits (I only know of one, and don't know anything about the other). Two additional real-life weeks of not being able to buy a mug of ale on your day off would be a real bummer. Not being able to buy your character's girlfriend a pretty little 20-sid feather ring would be pretty unpleasant and frustrating.

But then, it's already frustrating when you have to endure that for a RL month, so an extra 2 weeks is just another 2 weeks of what it was before.

I think some clans are paid too little, given the fact that they -do- have days off, and -do- want to sit at the bar and drink an ale once in awhile.

Perhaps, instead of changing the times, or changing schedules, or changing pay...clan leaders give their employees a small bonus at the end of their game-week or at the end of 3 days in a row of sparring and other scheduled stuff - maybe just 20 or 30 sids, so they can congratulate themselves for their efforts and progress with an ale on the House?

Quote from: "Bestatte"If 2 RL weeks is enough to turn something "fun" into something "not fun," I would ask the player, to ask themselves, what they consider "fun" in the first place.

As a runner, you aren't confined strictly to barracks duty and sparring the entire 6-week real-time period. You have opportunities to get out of town with your group and go on expeditions. This doesn't change.

Wrong. There are times in the Byn, like any clan, where you wontnt meet any sergeant or any other player for 80% of the time you play. No sparring, no training outside the city. Only solo RP, unless you skip duties, which can be bad roleplay.

I know what I'm talking about. I have had two Byn characters, the first was an absolute, incredible blast, and I loved every minute of her runner time due to the immese interactions I experienced. The second time, I wouldnt see another player for hour after hour. I tried idleing and solo RPing for like a RL week waiting for other players to show up until I was getting quite disheartened and logged in a lot less. And pretty just waited for the trial time to pass.

I think a lot of it depends on when you are able to play. Right now, I have some extra time during off peak hours, and spend a lot of time simply idling or doing emotes by myself. If the PC Sergeants were more visible, the six weeks would be more bearable. You could actually do some desert training, or help complete a contract. However, my character has yet to do any of that. Then again, he would be in the same predicament as a Trooper.

Personally, I'm fine with it taking six weeks. I just hope it doesn't disincent other people from signing up, since the numbers are already pretty low as is.

Personally I had fun last time in the Byn.  Even though I play almost exclusively from 12 am to 8 am PST, and thus not only didn't encounter many people, but also never saw (while I was there or in the posts about former ones) one of those excursions during those playtimes.  I make it fun for myself.

I meant the comment as a broad one, not really indicative either of my own play, or the Byn.

I should have joined the Byn three weeks ago.  D'oh!

Quote from: "Tlaloc"Are you saying its impossible to have fun as a Runner?

No, it is fun, but it's also a money pit.  Your income is nearly nil, but you still have expenses (equipment, armor, mount, stable fees, booze and spice to while away the weekends, etc.)  Sitting in a tavern all weekend and not buying anything is lame, the Gaj may not have a 2 drink minimum, but that doesn't mean they like freeloaders taking up tablespace.  If you don't have a mount people jeer at you and you are a burden on the sargeant.  If you don't own a weapon people look at you like you are nuts and then try to scrounge something crappy up from the storeroom.  No armor?  Well, that reduces the chances that you will be invited on to go on missions (Runners don't have to be taken on missions).  If you want to play the pathetic little brother that people roll their eyes at it is fine, but otherwise I like to make a couple thousand 'sid before I join.  If you join as a fresh newbie with nothing but your newbie money, then you are inept and ill equiped and (since you make very little money your first year) you'll stay poorly equiped for years.  

Struggling can be fun sometimes, but it can also get old after a while.


AC

Quote from: "Tlaloc"Are you saying its impossible to have fun as a Runner?

Heck no. Although it IS boring the constant sparring :roll:

But I use to talk to a Bynner Sargeant OOCly and (I'm pretty sure, it's been well over a year so I might be remembering it wrong) he was of the opinion runners shouldn't be taken out on missions (only training ones). I don't know if that was the opinion of a lot of PCs at the time or if it was just his personal opinion, so I don't know if it was ever changed. But if the policy is runners can only go on training missions, you can see how that would detract from the fun.

Quote from: "AC"Sitting in a tavern all weekend and not buying anything is lame

I've had Byn Sargeants that would regularly give us all some 'sid for nothing but to have fun They are, after all, mercenaries

QuoteHeck no. Although it IS boring the constant sparring  

But I use to talk to a Bynner Sargeant OOCly and (I'm pretty sure, it's been well over a year so I might be remembering it wrong) he was of the opinion runners shouldn't be taken out on missions (only training ones). I don't know if that was the opinion of a lot of PCs at the time or if it was just his personal opinion, so I don't know if it was ever changed. But if the policy is runners can only go on training missions, you can see how that would detract from the fun.

Have you ever competently played a Byn runner?

I've played several. My first one was as a newbie and, in hindsight, nobody's going to really involve a newbie in a plot. Second one got killed in desert training gone bad. Third, living maybe about two or so weeks, got wrapped up into some pretty cool stuff and ended up dying to the hands of an Allanaki templar. He also went on a big RPT with the Byn. The fourth got caught up in a soap opera-esque plot as well as some cool player-run RPTs.

All in all, being a runner in the Byn is what you make of it. My favorite RPTs have been with the Byn and I've had some fun characters that have been through it.

Quote from: "Carnage"Have you ever competently played a Byn runner?

No. But the person I was talking to OOCly wasn't talking about my specific character, but runners in general. But as I said, I don't know if it was his opinion or the official opinion or what. So I was just asking are runners less likely to be involved in plots, then Troopers? (regardless of compotency, just talking on average here).

Quote from: "John"

Quote from: "Carnage"Have you ever competently played a Byn runner?

No.

QuoteHeck no. Although it IS boring the constant sparring

Wait, let me get this straight. You've never played a Byn runner well, and here you are complaining about how constant sparring is boring? What do you expect is going to happen? That you're going to get swept up into some good plots when you admit you haven't had a good character in the Byn?

A lot of people don't want to start up plots with the newb from BaoBob. I'm one of them. You're unreliable, not used to the world, and so forth. When you've shown some knowledge of the world, your character has been around for more than a week, and so on, that's when people start to trust you, as a player, to be a fun part of a plot and generally have you involved. But complaining that the Byn is boring due to the constant sparring is just ignorant.

You...asked 'competently' Carnage.  From what he has said, it seems that he has played a Bynner, just not competently.

Quote from: "spawnloser"You...asked 'competently' Carnage.  From what he has said, it seems that he has played a Bynner, just not competently.

Where did I give any indication that I meant otherwise in my post?

Quote from: "Carnage"Wait, let me get this straight. You've never played a Byn runner well, and here you are complaining about how constant sparring is boring?

Yes. Constant sparring is boring. I don't see how a "competent runner" is going to find constant sparring anymore fun.

Quote from: "Carnage"What do you expect is going to happen? That you're going to get swept up into some good plots when you admit you haven't had a good character in the Byn?

There was two parts of my post. 1> Saying the constant sparring was boring. 2> Asking whether or not there is a policy against runners going on missions.

Quote from: "Carnage"But complaining that the Byn is boring due to the constant sparring is just ignorant.

Then you misunderstood my post. I said 2 things in the sentence when I said constant sparring is boring.
1> I said playing a runner is fun
2> A certain aspect of that role is boring (the sparring every morning of every IC weekday section).

I wasn't saying playing a runner in the Byn is boring. I was saying a certain aspect of playing a runner in the Byn is boring. There's a difference.

Quote2> A certain aspect of that role is boring (the sparring every morning of every IC weekday section).

I presume the T'zai Byn is the only military clan you've ever played in.

Quote from: "Carnage"I presume the T'zai Byn is the only military clan you've ever played in.

I've also played in Tor. I found that to be less rigid with the sparring sessions (but at the time there was also only a handful of other PCs). I also played in the Allanaki militia and found that to be less rigid with the sparring as well.

Sparring is a necessary part of alot of military clans.  I can think of 2 I've already been in, in my rather short span here, though where sparring was *not* a constant part of the guard regiment.  Look around, a lot of clans need hunters (its coded hunting and foraging but that can be more fun than sparring) or some clans will hire guards that will play more social roles.

Also I think it really depends on your character whether they're fun to spar with or not.  If the character likes to show bravado and get into the sparring mindset, I do.  If the character thinks practice is just a bunch of drudgery inbetween duties, then I feel that way.  But thats just me, I'm not saying I'm a great character actor or anything but I've noticed sparrings more fun if you align your PC to also enjoy getting the crap beat out of him.

I am a firm believer if you have had no experience in a subject being talked about, do not open your mouth, it will make you sound fucking stupid.

With that said, Being a Byn Runner was probably one of my most favorite RP moments ever. It is during that time you determine your character's personality towards the other people in the byn and such. It fucking rocks IMHO.

The issues I brought up remain, and no one picked them up.

It is easy to not have fun as a Byn Runner if:

-You are forced to play on off-peak hours.

-Very few other PCs and no sergeants are ever around when you are.

-You solo RP once in awhile, but you just dont enjoy doing it for hours.

-It is not IC for you to skip duties to find someone to interact with rather than idleing on the compound for hours.

When I played in Tor, there -was- a strict schedule. The only reason one of my characters was allowed to get away from it was because there were about two others at the time that rarely logged in and I was given permission to do whatever I wanted then. I couldn't say for the Militia as I've never cared to play in it, but if I recall correctly the Militia generally sends most of their recruits to the Tor Academy.

Quote from: "Akaramu"It is not IC for you to skip duties to find someone to interact with rather than idleing on the compound for hours.

Believe it or not, there -are- VNPC runners doing chores, which means people your character can interact with. Going to a tavern because there aren't any players around and you haven't been given permission in a situation like I was is just an OOC excuse.

QuoteYou are forced to play on off-peak hours.

This applies to all clans.

Quote from: "Carnage"Believe it or not, there -are- VNPC runners doing chores, which means people your character can interact with. Going to a tavern because there aren't any players around and you haven't been given permission in a situation like I was is just an OOC excuse.

Believe it or not, I AM very aware of VNPCs. If you listened, you would have realized that I was speaking for those who are not very fond of solo RP for long time spans.

I know this applies to all clans, but some restrict you more in what you can do when than others. And the Byn is possibly on the top of the strictness list I am aware of. Which is a good thing... as long as you are not forced to solo rp on the compound for hours... 6 RL weeks of doing so sound hella long.

Quote from: "Akaramu"Believe it or not, I AM very aware of VNPCs. If you listened, you would have realized that I was speaking for those who are not very fond of solo RP for long time spans.

Quote from: "Akaramu"It is easy to not have fun as a Byn Runner if:
[...]
-It is not IC for you to skip duties to find someone to interact with rather than idleing on the compound for hours.

First of all, I'd like to tet this out of the way: at no time are you forced to solo RP for long durations. No one has walked up to you and put a gun at your head and screamed, "SOLO RP NOW OR I'LL BLOW YOUR FUCKING BRAINS OUT!"

Second, your sentence was very confusing. "It is not IC for you to skip duties" would be fine for your list of "it is easy to not have fun as a Byn Runner" reasons, but then the "to find someone to interact with" brings it to the OOC realm, and it's not okay for anyone to skip duties just to go play with other people on a whim. Or it implies that your character is skipping duties so he/she can find other people to play around with, which also implies not looking for VNPCs.

Quote from: "Carnage"Or it implies that your character is skipping duties so he/she can find other people to play around with, which also implies not looking for VNPCs.

Well, yeah.  Roleplaying with VNPCs is solo-roleplaying, and you can do that better on a single player RPG, where their are at least NPCs programed to do stuff.  The problem with VNPCs is that they are dull, predictable, and they usually ignore PCs.

>say (grinning a the chubby, fresh faced runner) Hey Amos, good job with the shovel, but I think you missed a spot.

Wait.

>say (with a look of mock concern at at the cubby, fresh faced runner) Aw, don't be like that Amos, yer a fine shoveler.  I was just pulling your leg.

Wait.

>say (looking irritated)  What the feck is your problem Amos?  Hey, you, fatboy!  I'm talking to you!

Wait.

>say Oh the silent treatment eh?  So that's the way you want to play it?

Wait.

>em scoops up a shovelful of muck from the latrine floor and flings it at the chubby, fresh faced runner.

>shout How do you like that, eh?

Wait.

>say (grumbling)  Fine Amos, you just stand there pretening you aren't covered in shit.  You smell better like this anyway.


See, the VNPCs only react to other VNPCs.  They are a bunch of fecking snobs.


AC