You can discuss the Arboretum revamp here.
YES GODDAMMIT ALLANAK HAS NEEDED THIS FOR SO LONG
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
(http://ca.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2015526/rs_500x281-150626113605-tumblr_lqwxxpT0Z91ql7m05o1_500.gif)
Nice.
Questions:
What is this.
Where is it.
Are there whores involved.
Quote from: Jihelu on November 17, 2015, 10:58:34 PM
Questions:
What is this.
Where is it.
Are there whores involved.
The Arboretum is a super high class place which now Commoners can visit and gaze upon their betters.
It's on Meleth's Circle in Allanak
If by whores you mean finely bred and trained pleasure slaves then maybe.
So how are we supposed to treat the new location?
Just an ooc move of the Arboretum's location for convenience, or did that actually happen in game?
All IC. You can read some of this on the IC boards. The building is expanded.
The entrance is now south of the water temple.
Arboretum apartments
Ohhhh man. This is so fucking awesome. Now there is truly a visual difference between the upper crust and the plebs. Really really well done.
Right next to the Borsail vomitarium.
Quote from: Renenutet on November 18, 2015, 12:20:36 AM
The entrance is now south of the water temple.
Note this means the dragon water temple, not the Vivadu temple...
Oh frabjous day! Allanak has a Trader's Inn again! Great descriptions in there, whoever wrote them. I find it suitably thematic that commoners now get a glimpse of sheer opulence just out of reach from them. It does more for the setting than having it simply closed did.
Also, nicely written board post spreading the word of the update.
If I can allow one small critique, was there a) any visible development indicating the construction before hand or did it just appear overnight and b) it's not exactly in the same location as the original arboretum, is this meant to be an actual move and if so what has become of the old facility? A locked up, abandoned building could lead to some interesting scenarios.
Quote from: Suhuy on November 18, 2015, 03:42:52 AM
Oh frabjous day! Allanak has a Trader's Inn again! Great descriptions in there, whoever wrote them. I find it suitably thematic that commoners now get a glimpse of sheer opulence just out of reach from them. It does more for the setting than having it simply closed did.
Also, nicely written board post spreading the word of the update.
If I can allow one small critique, was there a) any visible development indicating the construction before hand or did it just appear overnight and b) it's not exactly in the same location as the original arboretum, is this meant to be an actual move and if so what has become of the old facility? A locked up, abandoned building could lead to some interesting scenarios.
There was previous visible development, including ambient echoes indicating construction, and also some rumors on the IC boards iirc.
It seems that the old building has been altered to be a garden viewable from the upper gallery in the new building.
Quote from: Erythil on November 18, 2015, 04:29:01 AM
Quote from: Suhuy on November 18, 2015, 03:42:52 AM
Oh frabjous day! Allanak has a Trader's Inn again! Great descriptions in there, whoever wrote them. I find it suitably thematic that commoners now get a glimpse of sheer opulence just out of reach from them. It does more for the setting than having it simply closed did.
Also, nicely written board post spreading the word of the update.
If I can allow one small critique, was there a) any visible development indicating the construction before hand or did it just appear overnight and b) it's not exactly in the same location as the original arboretum, is this meant to be an actual move and if so what has become of the old facility? A locked up, abandoned building could lead to some interesting scenarios.
There was previous visible development, including ambient echoes indicating construction, and also some rumors on the IC boards iirc.
It seems that the old building has been altered to be a garden viewable from the upper gallery in the new building.
Gotcha.
The original entrance and that whole section of the road look as though it never had had an arboretum in it. I actually had to do a bit of exploring to find the new arboretum. But I understand a bit of tweaking is sometimes required for OOC convenience. Just asking :)
Nice.
I hope all these bar foods are craftable!
Quote from: Suhuy on November 18, 2015, 03:42:52 AM
Oh frabjous day! Allanak has a Trader's Inn again! Great descriptions in there, whoever wrote them. I find it suitably thematic that commoners now get a glimpse of sheer opulence just out of reach from them. It does more for the setting than having it simply closed did.
Also, nicely written board post spreading the word of the update.
If I can allow one small critique, was there a) any visible development indicating the construction before hand or did it just appear overnight and b) it's not exactly in the same location as the original arboretum, is this meant to be an actual move and if so what has become of the old facility? A locked up, abandoned building could lead to some interesting scenarios.
Yes, there was visible development IC. At the end of August we put some construction laborers into the area where the old entrance was. We then went and put in echo's about construction going on. The old entrance was in a basically untravelled part of Meleth's circle so I made the decision that the renovations would include a shifting of the entrance. Essentially the blocked up one entrance and expanded their building in another direction.
Just prior to opening up the new entrance the construction crew moved location to where the new door would be. The evidence of past construction in the previous location is gone as they finished up in that area.
Now it's open we have the IC rumor board posting.
Thanks on this project for the actual building of new rooms, multiple items and new food can go to Renenutet.
Now I actually want to make a noble just to spend my time all day errday there.
You can spend everyday at the commoner bar. Unless you're an elf. You're not an elf ? >:(
Didn't Traders use to keep out half-elves? Does the Arboretum have much more lax standards?
Is this a shift in Allanak culture?
The same standards are being upheld ;)
Does it stop all half-elves or does it let "human" looking half-elves pass? That'd be a weird way to get outed.
Quote from: Delirium on November 18, 2015, 12:11:37 PM
Does it stop all half-elves or does it let "human" looking half-elves pass? That'd be a weird way to get outed.
They might do the infamous "Stride Test". *shudder*
Quote from: Delirium on November 18, 2015, 12:11:37 PM
Does it stop all half-elves or does it let "human" looking half-elves pass? That'd be a weird way to get outed.
Iirc human looking half elves can pass. Elves and elven looking half elves are barred.
Quote from: Delirium on November 18, 2015, 12:11:37 PM
Does it stop all half-elves or does it let "human" looking half-elves pass? That'd be a weird way to get outed.
The code accounts for human-looking half-elves properly.
Huzzah!
Quote from: Renenutet on November 18, 2015, 11:55:26 AM
You can spend everyday at the commoner bar. Unless you're an elf. You're not an elf ? >:(
Damn bouncer was doing his job a little too good last night. But the problem has been solved!
What social status are you supposed to be to:
a) Be let inside the arboretum at all?
b) Let into the garden?
c) Let up onto the balcony?
The guards just frown and shake their head, so you can't really tell for sure whose allowed where.
Commoners at the bar.
GMH , Nobles, Templars in the Garden,
Nobles and Templars upstairs.
If you have another experience, please shoot me a request, or bug it.
I am really sorry and completely at fault here. I was anxious to open and things got past me. I promise we'll sort this out.
Just an addendum - GMH family are allowed in the garden. The rest of them can go suck it...
Pay no attention to the lower-class PC, sprinting through the rooms and logging descriptions for later consumption.
Quote from: Renenutet on November 18, 2015, 02:07:10 PM
Commoners at the bar.
GMH , Nobles, Templars in the Garden,
Nobles and Templars upstairs.
If you have another experience, please shoot me a request, or bug it.
I am really sorry and completely at fault here. I was anxious to open and things got past me. I promise we'll sort this out.
There's nothing to be sorry about, this is an awesome addition to Allanak! I would've been anxious to open it up too.
Quote from: wizturbo on November 18, 2015, 02:22:15 PM
Quote from: Renenutet on November 18, 2015, 02:07:10 PM
Commoners at the bar.
GMH , Nobles, Templars in the Garden,
Nobles and Templars upstairs.
If you have another experience, please shoot me a request, or bug it.
I am really sorry and completely at fault here. I was anxious to open and things got past me. I promise we'll sort this out.
There's nothing to be sorry about, this is an awesome addition to Allanak! I would've been anxious to open it up too.
Yeah, this is awsome! Nice work!
MM and I were just going back and forth about this VERY THING in Random Thoughts yesterday.
Timely Coincidence or something more?
If you want to send kudos to Marauder Moe and I, feel free to do so. We will accept them with humble glee.
(Do not send us kudos. We had nothing to do with this.)
Did you not see the construction site out there in August? ;)
Quote from: Adhira on November 18, 2015, 05:20:47 PM
Did you not see the construction site out there in August? ;)
I keep my gaze averted when I pass. #justcommonerthings
Quote from: Desertman on November 18, 2015, 05:21:46 PM
Quote from: Adhira on November 18, 2015, 05:20:47 PM
Did you not see the construction site out there in August? ;)
I keep my gaze averted when I pass. #justcommonerthings
Don't want babies to get thrusted into your face for water.
Will the new Arboretum serve as a high end tavern, similar to what the Trader's Inn was? Similar to the Sun King's Sanctuary in Tuluk? I'm concerned this will be too many taverns for Allanak, but maybe higher player density in Allanak demands another player hub.
That's the idea. The main thing her is Red's Retreat was never meant to be a Noble Tavern. We typically have around 8 Nobles and 3 Templars now, AND we have GMH Family members, none of them have their "exclusive" club to hang out in freely, now they do. The Gaj is still always going to be used, Red's is a great place for those that don't like the dirty of Gaj, but not as opulent as the Arboretum. Now the Arboretum is accessible to commoners still, some at least, but it really caters to those that have the money and lifestyle to fit there.
I think we'll have plenty of players to go into any of the Bars, hopefully we can encourage more reason for people to go to these centers.
I like the idea of using the Red's Retreat as a high end tavern for nobles and other rich and upper class people. It's big with sub-sections where nobles can isolate themselves from the common riff raff.
It'd be cool to have a tavern that's more sleazy and gritter than the Gaj, maybe even with easy access to the rinth (maybe out the backdoor). A kind of place where one might encounter shady types and other lower class people. It'd be like some of the other rinth player hubs but be considered much safer than rinth taverns because of easy access that doesn't require travel into the rinth (and break the rules many clans have about going into the rinth).
Quote from: Molten Heart on November 18, 2015, 06:36:19 PM
I like the idea of using the Red's Retreat as a high end tavern for nobles and other rich and upper class people. It's big with sub-sections where nobles can isolate themselves from the common riff raff.
It'd be cool to have a tavern that's more sleazy and gritter than the Gaj, maybe even with easy access to the rinth (maybe out the backdoor). A kind of place where one might encounter shady types and other lower class people. It'd be like some of the other rinth player hubs but be considered much safer than rinth taverns because of easy access that doesn't require travel into the rinth (and break the rules many clans have about going into the rinth).
I love the changes, this is more in response to the sleezy bar:
I've had that idea for a while, although slightly different: push back the thug NPCs on Hathor's (and restrict the roaming thugs further in) and so give southsiders access to the Mantis. You still have two other bars in the rinth for the hardcore.
Red's Retreat is sort of the GMH/Highish End Commoner Pub where Nobles can drop in, and Templars too since they can go wherever they damn well please, without the inordinate fear of vomit, feces, and elves. Though the latter might have to be abided, maybe.
The Arboretum is a different creature entirely. It bleeds Noble Blood, and Commoners are lucky to get a glimpse of the fresh water fountain garden within. Or lucky enough to be a GMH Family Member and be afforded (via Taxes) the price of admittance.
I think there were some complaints about the Atrium kind of walling off the high end players from the world, so this provides an option where they can be themselves but still be approachable to people who are looking for interaction with them.
Quote from: Erythil on November 18, 2015, 07:11:27 PM
I think there were some complaints about the Atrium kind of walling off the high end players from the world, so this provides an option where they can be themselves but still be approachable to people who are looking for interaction with them.
Yes.
Even though a commoner can't get into the more exclusive areas they can see who is in the other parts of the building, and others can see them.
Again, love the new building.
Just a small flavor suggestion... It would be cool if the same script used in the noble's quarter for when a noble enters the gates was used to announce arriving Highborn when they come into the Arboretum.
Bowing quickly, the burly, long-haired bouncer shouts, in sirihish:
"Lord Templar Amos Borsail of the Ministry of War!"
That sort of thing.
I like this suggestion. I have no idea what goes in to having that happen. So, no promises beyond consideration.
Awesome.
Quote from: wizturbo on November 18, 2015, 08:33:49 PM
The tall templar enters from the west.
Bowing quickly, the burly, long-haired bouncer shouts, in sirihish:
"Lord Templar Zeneranthiazolinonethenyulineratenpharhsinarbenfarbephenwhaxkilintenfog Borsail of the Ministry of War!"
Addressing the crowd of secret gicks, the tall templar says, in sirihish:
"hey im lord templar z. try summon me lol"
The tall templar e.
fixed
Ever since Sirihish became the dominant language, Sirihish speakers have associated names with social status, with a larger number of syllables denoting a higher station.
I'm not even making that up! It's the last line in the staff wiki entry for Sirihish!
People have generally have had a tendency to give nobles longer names. I think it makes sense.
I will never forget Vlorvaldorax. Or how to spell it, since I was terrified of having my character "mispronounce" the name.
This Arboretum update was much needed and I love that it really rubs the haves in the have-not's faces.
Quote from: Delirium on November 19, 2015, 10:07:03 AM
I will never forget Vlorvaldorax.
He was gone too soon.
About time! Can't wait to see it...
I love the announce scripts and also long names
I won't consider this a "Real" Allanaki tavern until someone gets murdered in it.
Quote from: Mordiggian on November 19, 2015, 06:00:38 AM
Ever since Sirihish became the dominant language, Sirihish speakers have associated names with social status, with a larger number of syllables denoting a higher station.
I'm not even making that up! It's the last line in the staff wiki entry for Sirihish!
That... explains that ridiculously long name of Lord *beep*
Quote from: BadSkeelz on November 19, 2015, 04:39:37 PM
I won't consider this a "Real" Allanaki tavern until someone gets murdered in it.
Technically didn't this already happen, if the rumor board post is accurate?
Not a PC, though.
Hmmm, good point. Would those NPCs count as "in" the tavern when it collapsed on to them?
Quote from: Erythil on November 19, 2015, 04:54:18 PM
Quote from: BadSkeelz on November 19, 2015, 04:39:37 PM
I won't consider this a "Real" Allanaki tavern until someone gets murdered in it.
Technically didn't this already happen, if the rumor board post is accurate?
Not a PC, though.
Two minutes later
"Several fair citizens were stabbed to death by evil elves"
Addition to my previous suggestion:
Announcements for a noble or templar might look like this:
"Presenting the Lady Amosa Borsail!"
But for a merchant house family member, they only get this:
"A Kadian Merchant!"
The whole point would be to reinforce the fact that their name isn't important, but the fact that they've arrived might be of interest to the Highborn nearby. Sort of the Zalanthian nobility equivalent of the ice cream truck coming around the corner.... :)
Quote from: wizturbo on November 19, 2015, 11:36:44 PM
Addition to my previous suggestion:
Announcements for a noble or templar might look like this:
"Presenting the Lady Amosa Borsail!"
But for a merchant house family member, they only get this:
"A Kadian Merchant!"
The whole point would be to reinforce the fact that their name isn't important, but the fact that they've arrived might be of interest to the Highborn nearby. Sort of the Zalanthian nobility equivalent of the ice cream truck coming around the corner.... :)
I like it.
Quote from: wizturbo on November 19, 2015, 11:36:44 PM
Sort of the Zalanthian nobility equivalent of the ice cream truck coming around the corner.... :)
Thank you for this. I totally snort-laughed. Hard. It just made my day. :)
THIS IS FANTASTIC. THANK YOU STAFF!
Does the top floor of the Arboretum also have visibility on the Cuddler? It could be like box seating at the games.
Quote from: BadSkeelz on November 22, 2015, 01:19:18 AM
Does the top floor of the Arboretum also have visibility on the Cuddler? It could be like box seating at the games.
I love this idea.
I like it.
But I miss Trader's. I dug the atmosphere there as a newb. That might have been players, thouh.
Are dwarves and half-giants not allowed into the bar either, or is this just a bug of sorts?
Dwarves and half-giants are filth so it's probably not a bug.
The doorman will open the door for you. He won't let you open it. Type N, not open. If he still won't let you in you're a filthy elf. A short, bald, filthy elf.
Quote from: Iiyola on November 20, 2015, 12:10:06 AM
Quote from: wizturbo on November 19, 2015, 11:36:44 PM
Addition to my previous suggestion:
Announcements for a noble or templar might look like this:
"Presenting the Lady Amosa Borsail!"
But for a merchant house family member, they only get this:
"A Kadian Merchant!"
The whole point would be to reinforce the fact that their name isn't important, but the fact that they've arrived might be of interest to the Highborn nearby. Sort of the Zalanthian nobility equivalent of the ice cream truck coming around the corner.... :)
I like it.
The issue is that typically this sort of script checks for your real name. So if you ALWAYS go by "Amos" but your REAL name is "Amostabootay", then you'll get announced as "Lady Amostabootay Borsail". Maybe you don't want everyone knowing that!
I don't really know why there is a door to this place to be honest. None of the other major drinking/eating establishments in the game have doors. Makes it hard to see if anyone is in there as I'm walking by as I do for all the other taverns in the game. When it was an exclusive, secluded club closed off to commoners it made sense to have a curtain (sorta, I still didn't like it) - but now it is a major in game gathering spot with a rumor board and everything. Maybe there is some hidden logic behind putting a door on a major city meeting spot that we want to encourage people to visit. But I'm not seeing it, myself.
The door prevents breeds, elves, and other ne'er-do-wells from getting in.
Quote from: Saellyn on November 26, 2015, 02:12:46 AM
The door prevents breeds, elves, and other ne'er-do-wells from getting in.
Not really. Not any more than a guarded entrance would. Shadow is good.
It bars non-shadowers.
Quote from: Saellyn on November 26, 2015, 02:12:46 AM
The door prevents breeds, elves, and other ne'er-do-wells arrows from getting in.
fixed that for ya.
That and the horde of starving beggars.
I don't like this change. It means I need to learn how to spell arb-whatever.
Quote from: Saellyn on November 26, 2015, 02:12:46 AM
The door prevents breeds, elves, and other ne'er-do-wells from getting in.
No, the bouncer does that. The door isn't locked. Shadow still works.
Quote from: whitt on November 26, 2015, 03:33:13 AM
Quote from: Saellyn on November 26, 2015, 02:12:46 AM
The door prevents breeds, elves, and other ne'er-do-wells arrows from getting in.
fixed that for ya.
It OOCly prevents arrows. It codedly prevents arrows. ICly there are windows to this place, and balconies that nobles are sitting on that a Zalanthan assassin could conceivably shoot at. If we're putting doors on taverns now to OOCly prevent assassination attempt by projectile, then I don't know what the game is coming to.
Quote from: Rathustra on November 26, 2015, 05:48:13 AM
That and the horde of starving beggars.
Question: How does a non locking door and a single man keep a horde of beggars from going anywhere? Answer: They don't. The beggars aren't mobbing the place because there are other considerations at play that are not dictated by lines of code, but by the story and the world. There are virtual armed guards, soldiers, and templars going into this place all the time. The beggars aren't deciding not to go into the Arboretum because there's a door, but because they know they'll be slaughtered en masse if they do. They're dying in droves out there every day, because this bastion of Highborn privilege is the last desperate hope they have to live. If the next argument is that the door prevents beggars from seeing what's inside, and losing their minds with jealousy, my rebuttal is that the beggars know what's in the building. They've always known. They wouldn't be sitting outside, pleading for a single sip of water for their dying babies, if they didn't. See also: windows, balconies. But this single door, and the curtain it replaced, won't prevent a mob from entering an area. Again: windows, balconies. If we're going to answer IC circumstances with OOC explanations then the human beggars should be able to get in. The bouncer will codedly let them. ::)
By the way, Trader's never had a door. It just had that bouncer - that same bouncer. And yeah, newbs walking by could understand that they were walking by a tavern, because they'd look into the room and see The Trader's Inn [W] instead of the very mysterious "The door is closed". And yeah, then they'd go in, meet nobles and merchants, and get drawn into their stories. And yeah, people tried to kill nobles through the open doorway. And it was awesome.
I criticize because I care. I want The Arboretum Bar to be a destination, and I don't want that destination to be at all confusing.
Quote from: LauraMars on November 26, 2015, 07:23:34 AM
Quote from: Saellyn on November 26, 2015, 02:12:46 AM
The door prevents breeds, elves, and other ne'er-do-wells from getting in.
No, the bouncer does that. The door isn't locked. Shadow still works.
Quote from: whitt on November 26, 2015, 03:33:13 AM
Quote from: Saellyn on November 26, 2015, 02:12:46 AM
The door prevents breeds, elves, and other ne'er-do-wells arrows from getting in.
fixed that for ya.
It OOCly prevents arrows. It codedly prevents arrows. ICly there are windows to this place, and balconies that nobles are sitting on that a Zalanthan assassin could conceivably shoot at. If we're putting doors on taverns now to OOCly prevent assassination attempt by projectile, then I don't know what the game is coming to.
Quote from: Rathustra on November 26, 2015, 05:48:13 AM
That and the horde of starving beggars.
Question: How does a non locking door and a single man keep a horde of beggars from going anywhere? Answer: They don't. The beggars aren't mobbing the place because there are other considerations at play that are not dictated by lines of code, but by the story and the world. There are virtual armed guards, soldiers, and templars going into this place all the time. The beggars aren't deciding not to go into the Arboretum because there's a door, but because they know they'll be slaughtered en masse if they do. They're dying in droves out there every day, because this bastion of Highborn privilege is the last desperate hope they have to live. If the next argument is that the door prevents beggars from seeing what's inside, and losing their minds with jealousy, my rebuttal is that the beggars know what's in the building. They've always known. They wouldn't be sitting outside, pleading for a single sip of water for their dying babies, if they didn't. See also: windows, balconies. But this single door, and the curtain it replaced, won't prevent a mob from entering an area. Again: windows, balconies. If we're going to answer IC circumstances with OOC explanations then the human beggars should be able to get in. The bouncer will codedly let them. ::)
By the way, Trader's never had a door. It just had that bouncer - that same bouncer. And yeah, newbs walking by could understand that they were walking by a tavern, because they'd look into the room and see The Trader's Inn [W] instead of the very mysterious "The door is closed". And yeah, then they'd go in, meet nobles and merchants, and get drawn into their stories. And yeah, people tried to kill nobles through the open doorway. And it was awesome.
I criticize because I care. I want The Arboretum Bar to be a destination, and I don't want that destination to be at all confusing.
... So you're okay with a guy drawing a bow, nocking an arrow
in the middle of the street and firing it into a building, probably more than once, with no repercussions whatsoever because of how hiding and crimcode works? Nah. No thanks. I dealt with that once or twice and it was completely fucking retarded when it happened.
Why not just permanently station actual npc soldiers outside the tavern who will hit the fellow in the head if he starts shooting (or throwing knives, or whatever)? That seems like a more ICly realistic preventative to me than a coded door to a tavern filled with balconies and windows.
And for that matter, the rest of the taverns in the game still have no doors, and so our city-based assassins can still use the people inside of all those as pincussions.
Because that isn't how it works.
Ok, so put doors on all the taverns in the game if people are dropping like flies to arrows and knives. Be prepared for confused newbs, but that's our solution.
OR, the code needs to be adjusted to actually punish people for shooting/throwing inside the city. Is it really not? That seems like a huge oversight.
How you fix it.
If someone shoots a bow in a crowded city they get tackled, least during day time and certain parts, and get the shit beat out of them.
Quote from: Jihelu on November 26, 2015, 08:45:24 AM
How you fix it.
If someone shoots a bow in a crowded city they get tackled, least during day time and certain parts, and get the shit beat out of them.
Yes.
Quote from: LauraMars on November 26, 2015, 08:39:48 AM
Ok, so put doors on all the taverns in the game if people are dropping like flies to arrows and knives. Be prepared for confused newbs, but that's our solution.
OR, the code needs to be adjusted to actually punish people for shooting/throwing inside the city. Is it really not? That seems like a huge oversight.
I'm with you LauraMars: (a) open doors are helpful in public places; (b) the occasional knife or arrow adds excitement.
Re: Saellyn)
The current crimcode makes it really hard to toss a knife or shoot a bow into a bar with soldiers stationed nearby. Really, really hard. The risk is very high. It makes it almost impossible to toss two or shoot two with a soldier stationed nearby.
In my experience that is not the case.
Quote from: Saellyn on November 26, 2015, 10:29:28 AM
In my experience that is not the case.
On which end? Because in my experience the threat of 12 half-giant soldiers clobbering you into a paste is a very real threat when doing anything combative in the city when there's soldiers nearby. The number of times I've seen arrows/knives being shot/thrown into a tavern can be counted on one hand. Never seen a death.
I can understand the noble-area having a door but not the commoner-area. I haven't been to this place to see how it functions though.
It's pretty risky, yeah. Only if conditions are perfect can you pull it off. Crim code is fierce. Plus being crim flagged is risky to get away, too. Criminal players represent.
I have only seen it happen once while spectating.
The more dangerous the city the better. That being said, I am fine with the noble section having a door.
There shouldn't have to be a soldier NPC hanging out for people to reconsider doing stupid things, but people do them anyways because the code allows it to happen. That's all I have to say on the matter.
I agree with Laura Mars.
Quote from: LauraMars on November 26, 2015, 08:37:22 AM
Why not just permanently station actual npc soldiers outside the tavern who will hit the fellow in the head if he starts shooting (or throwing knives, or whatever)? That seems like a more ICly realistic preventative to me than a coded door to a tavern filled with balconies and windows.
And for that matter, the rest of the taverns in the game still have no doors, and so our city-based assassins can still use the people inside of all those as pincussions.
Because if the soldier is in the room -next- to someone who attempts to attack another character in that -other- room, then that soldier will run away from his post to arrest the offending party. That's how the soldier code works. If the soldier is NOT clanned AOD, and tries to attack someone shooting into the Arboretum, then the NPC soldiers who ARE clanned AOD, will arrest that soldier.
That's just the nature of the code, they'd have to recode and add new code to accommodate "NPCs who are normally coded to arrest people, but can now only arrest people in this one specific room and not run off to arrest someone in the room next door."
And that would also be very clunky, because if that was the only NPC soldier in close proximity to an actual crime, it would make no sense for him to NOT walk away and arrest the criminal in the room next door.
Basically - it's important to make some attempt to just accept that the code is clunky, and roleplay the *intent* of the atmosphere. We have to trust other players at some point, this seems like a good place for it. And if they behave in a way that is contrary to the *intent* of the atmosphere, then a player complaint could be sent.
Remove guards, remove archery and throw, kill your target in melee like God intended.
So if I'm understanding what people are saying correctly, throwing a knife or shooting an arrow at someone in another room will not trigger the crim code against your person - regardless of whether or not it connects? Even if you are standing right beside a soldier? That seems... weird. If it's true, I don't really think there needs to be a convoluted code solution for that - just make it so that if you shoot or throw a weapon at someone in an adjacent room and you're standing in a populated area, you receive a crim flag.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd373/Calorion/KalakSpear.jpg)
Good times.
Quote from: help archery
Please be considerate of the game world when using this skill. The code will allow for you to shoot into any adjacent room but such shots may be unrealistic in light of how the rooms are described. Repeated unrealistic use of the skill may result disciplinary action from staff as merited.
We're currently looking into fixing these issues.
Quote from: LauraMars on November 26, 2015, 02:49:08 PM
So if I'm understanding what people are saying correctly, throwing a knife or shooting an arrow at someone in another room will not trigger the crim code against your person - regardless of whether or not it connects? Even if you are standing right beside a soldier? That seems... weird. If it's true, I don't really think there needs to be a convoluted code solution for that - just make it so that if you shoot or throw a weapon at someone in an adjacent room and you're standing in a populated area, you receive a crim flag.
No, pretty sure the law will notice.
I think Lizzie was saying that these soldiers could end up moving off their posts. Once they do, all bets are off, and people can repeatedly shoot into the busy tavern with impunity. :) I think it's a valid consideration, but a "glass door" would be nice to do a quick headcount.
If you did the scenario you mentioned you would be instantly arrested with no time to hide or draw, LauraMars.
Back to the door. We can discuss amongst staff. Maybe the door can go. The feedback is definitely appreciated.
If we take out the door the npc who opens it for you to go out will be unemployed. Let it be upon your heads.
I volunteer to take over the role of the murderous vengeful unemployed door guard.
I really don't see why one tavern having a door is such a big deal.
Quote from: Erythil on November 26, 2015, 04:00:02 PM
I really don't see why one tavern having a door is such a big deal.
srsly.
Maybe it serves as an airlock for commoner stink?
Inside is nice Enlil Terash brand Nobleair, outside is gross Commonerair.. which smells like armpits and butts.
Quote from: Renenutet on November 26, 2015, 03:44:54 PM
Back to the door. We can discuss amongst staff. Maybe the door can go. The feedback is definitely appreciated.
If we take out the door the npc who opens it for you to go out will be unemployed. Let it be upon your heads.
At least it is a short walk to the pile.
Quote from: Erythil on November 26, 2015, 04:00:02 PM
I really don't see why one tavern having a door is such a big deal.
For multiple reasons stated. "Big deal" of course being defined here as worth making a post on the GDB, right? Because that's all we're doing.
It's canon. There are supposed to be dozens of thirsty, hungry, unwashed beggars outside begging, right?
If you got enough money to buy a cup of water, or at least pretend you have enough money, you should be able to get in. Those beggars are DIRT poor.
Just to clarify I don't really care if one tavern has a door. I am going to miss hearing about hoity toity nobles attacking each other directly or using assassins, however.
.
Don't unemploy the guy inside, if the door goes. Give the guy outside a pal.
Make guarding outside the Arboretum a "punishment detail" for Arm recruits/privates when they piss off their officer.
Seriously, that job would have to suck.
And then no one would ever do it, the end.
Wait... this thread exploded because of a door? ???
Doors are the source of all Armageddon's problems.
#removealldoors2016
I just want to be able to "look north" and see if there are PCs in the Arboretum, hopefully templars or nobles having an important meeting, so I can stand outside as a worthless beggar and shout how I'm so hungry and won't someone please take mercy on me, until they step outside and either A) give me a job or B) murder me (both outcomes equally acceptable).
I can do that even if I don't know, but NPCs are far less likely to respond in interesting ways, and shouting at a closed door isn't as much fun.
Keep the bouncer. Maybe even keep the door if you can just leave it open by default. Either way, if someone wants to train their archery skill on Lady Oash sitting downstairs, they'll get what's coming to them.
Having an open door also means it's easier to sneak inside. I don't like that. Security is already bad, making it easier would just make it worse. The alternative would be to make outside the arboretem a no-hide room...which would suck even more!
Make the walls climbable, vault into the balcony.
So who can be let in?
Based on the thread I figure: humans. Half elves that look human?
Can dwarves and half giants go in there at all?
Quote from: Hauwke on January 04, 2016, 04:58:36 AM
So who can be let in?
Based on the thread I figure: humans. Half elves that look human?
Can dwarves and half giants go in there at all?
Yep yep and yep.
Well I may have found an issue with the door guy then.