Armageddon General Discussion Board

Meh. What do we want to see first. Why?

Be civil please.

I'd like to see new tiny areas be added -- ruins, caverns, buildings, wildernesses, etc. -- to bring back the sense that there could be anything out there, and that the world isn't fully charted.

I get the impression that some of this may be underway already with the new devoted building staff.

I picked code. Skill gains, guild system, bad skill-balance on subguilds, overlapping subguilds, illogical skill branching... The list goes on.

Cool stuff. This list can be added too, and there's a lot of stuff floating around. The staff can't do it all and people have some pretty passionate arguments. I'd like to see if we can narrow it down and agree to work on one thing at a time as a community.

I picked Economy Reform, specifically in relation to the banking code being made a more "in character" construct.

No visible results :(

Quote from: Aruven on June 18, 2015, 02:38:53 PM
Be civil please.

Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 18, 2015, 02:44:05 PM
I picked code. Skill gains, guild system, bad skill-balance on subguilds, overlapping subguilds, illogical skill branching... The list goes on.

then

Quote from: Erythil on June 18, 2015, 02:43:38 PM
I'd like to see new tiny areas be added -- ruins, caverns, buildings, wildernesses, etc. -- to bring back the sense that there could be anything out there, and that the world isn't fully charted.

I get the impression that some of this may be underway already with the new devoted building staff.

Quote from: Barzalene on June 18, 2015, 02:54:10 PM
No visible results :(

It will be visible in less than 3 days. I decided I wanted people to pick their opinion without having to process where everyone else has their minds so they can, hopefully, speak THEIR thoughts first before diving into a million other opinions.

Priority as a community right now is Southern clay pits.

I picked the economy, specifically I'd like more uses for coin besides pretty gear that doesn't require staff involvement.

Other: meh. I think staff is doing a pretty good job of making changes at their own pace. I like the slow and gradual changes thing, because I'm a very change-averse individual.

Combat-related skill-gain code.

This restricts my character choices probably more than anything, because I hate sucking.  I'm not so much interested in PK'ing anymore...but being shitty and useless just blows.  And yeah, if you aren't very careful with the type of life your PC has, you'll never get any better.

If I were more altruistic I'd say the economy is probably the better investment of time.

But I'm not, so I said combat code. It's more frustrating to me personally.

A lot of it is inseparable.

An economy for example, doesn't work without being driven by consumption. In Armageddon, there is only two forms of consumption that is common to every player. That is hunger and thirst. However, it's fairly trivial to completely negate all possible expenditures related to staying fed and watered by joining a clan, where it becomes free. So the GMH hunter sells the meat he hunts/cooks instead of eating it, giving him more sids than he'd ordinarily have (a lot more sids, usually), and then some indie happens by, who can't sell his meat because the NPC grocer is now full up. There's no one but VNPCs who'll ever buy that meat, given that its cost is far out of proportion with demand or even need.

This is just one example.

Last time I was in a clan, there were rules against selling any of the stuff you hunted.  Basically everything you put in your bag belonged to the House, until your boss told you otherwise.

Code stuff would be cool, specifically crim-code and combat.

Economy has more overarching benefit, I think.

I'm skeptical of that. Seems to me most complaints about the economy are "it's too hard to make money doing 'real' work, but people get lots of money doing 'stupid' work." Still just complaints about people not getting as much money as they want.

Has the spam crafter or twink hunter looking for their twenty thousand sids ever contributed meaningfully to the game? Not that I've seen.

Being unable to level up a combat character without hundreds of manhours of play stifles more RP than you not being able to sell your ivory horn or hair needle.

For me, economy is important or rather changing the economy is important, not because of the selling in shops, but because I'd love if player activity had a more immediate effect on the world. I think that would add more rp to the game than changing the combat code.

I voted for clan docs because I should know a lot of things but then shit starts happening around me and I'm just https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Qbx3ZQifM

I think the game is great right now. I think staff are working hard to make it even better. I see commitment to excellence from the player base right on up.  The game is FUN, bottom line. Yet if we are going to set priorities for stuff to work on:

Economy, although it is probably the hardest to fix.

The GDB has been an eye sore to me. It still looks like it's from the 90's, despite the awesome, professional main page.

Quote from: Iiyola on June 18, 2015, 11:28:10 PM
The GDB has been an eye sore to me. It still looks like it's from the 90's, despite the awesome, professional main page.

What are forums supposed to look like, these days?

Quote from: Erythil on June 18, 2015, 02:43:38 PM
I'd like to see new tiny areas be added -- ruins, caverns, buildings, wildernesses, etc. -- to bring back the sense that there could be anything out there, and that the world isn't fully charted.

Same here.

I voted economy reform, as related to recent discussions on the ease of making & accumulating money, the silliness of the current banking system, and the shop system that reward people who happen to log in right after a reboot.

Combat skill gain would be my 2nd choice.

Quote from: MeTekillot on June 18, 2015, 10:14:56 PM
I voted for clan docs because I should know a lot of things but then shit starts happening around me and I'm just https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Qbx3ZQifM

(http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Leonardo-DiCaprio-Approve-In-Django-Unchained.gif)

I voted for combat, but economy runs a very close second. I mostly voted for combat because I'd really just like things to be common sense, and as anyone who actually pays attention to combat knows, it's not exactly common sense.

The economy, though, would make me happy as hell too.

Quote from: Synthesis on June 18, 2015, 11:36:26 PM

Quote from: Iiyola on June 18, 2015, 11:28:10 PM
The GDB has been an eye sore to me. It still looks like it's from the 90's, despite the awesome, professional main page.

What are forums supposed to look like, these days?

I'm all but a web designer but the ones that I visit are easier on the eyes. The background/fond/header look professional (much like armageddon.org) and I find them easier to use. Perhaps it's because I'm a PhpBB fan (https://www.phpbb.com/community/).

Quote from: Iiyola on June 19, 2015, 03:25:37 AM

Quote from: Synthesis on June 18, 2015, 11:36:26 PM

Quote from: Iiyola on June 18, 2015, 11:28:10 PM
The GDB has been an eye sore to me. It still looks like it's from the 90's, despite the awesome, professional main page.

What are forums supposed to look like, these days?

I'm all but a web designer but the ones that I visit are easier on the eyes. The background/fond/header look professional (much like armageddon.org) and I find them easier to use. Perhaps it's because I'm a PhpBB fan (https://www.phpbb.com/community/).

Eww, gross. That looks horrid, imo.

Code reform, the black and white of guilds and branches has been too static for too long. More freeform mundane classes, and overhaul spells/branches into something like I saw in another game that I thought was tight. When all of your spells combined totalled X, you'd branch a spell randomly, then when the total of all spell skills combined equaled Y, another random branch. So you could have a weird combination of unpredictable spells on mage characters. Personally I think all of the guilds are so stale at this point I can guild sniff people within 5 seconds of seeing their combat. I wish the game was less predictable in this way. The extended subguilds did a lot in the way of surprises but not nearly enough imo.

Quote from: Majikal on June 19, 2015, 03:41:27 AM
Code reform, the black and white of guilds and branches has been too static for too long. More freeform mundane classes, and overhaul spells/branches into something like I saw in another game that I thought was tight. When all of your spells combined totalled X, you'd branch a spell randomly, then when the total of all spell skills combined equaled Y, another random branch. So you could have a weird combination of unpredictable spells on mage characters. Personally I think all of the guilds are so stale at this point I can guild sniff people within 5 seconds of seeing their combat. I wish the game was less predictable in this way. The extended subguilds did a lot in the way of surprises but not nearly enough imo.

I like the idea of the random branching spells concept. I wouldn't mind doing away with "elementalists" all together in favor of a "magicker class". Something more akin in general to your typical fantasy style "wizards". Branching random spells to make each magicker unique and useful in different ways not predetermined by their "elemental selection" seems pretty boss in my opinion.

I don't like the idea of taking away the mundane classes in favor of a freeform skill-based system.

I've played several other games like that. What all of them always ended up with was people picking the, "Most powerful combination", and eventually everyone was pretty much the exact same character.

Crimcode.  You shouldn't have to stand around getting firebombed inside your clan hall and still be flagged wanted if you attack!  Some kind of thing to make it easy for staff to modify crimcode behavior for in-city combat rpts.  It's got to be as frustrating for them as it is for us.

Quote from: Refugee on June 19, 2015, 11:01:42 AM
Crimcode.  You shouldn't have to stand around getting firebombed inside your clan hall and still be flagged wanted if you attack!  Some kind of thing to make it easy for staff to modify crimcode behavior for in-city combat rpts.  It's got to be as frustrating for them as it is for us.

Yeah, I bet they are looking at that after the last round of RPTs. A lot of that was just plain silly chaos. It was fun, don't get me wrong, but tiptoeing around the crimcode not acting realistically WAS tedious for everyone...probably especially for staff.

I think the ability to just turn it off all together in situations like that might be useful. When the streets are straight chaos like that, I wouldn't mind seeing all crim code turned off to reflect, "The chaos of the city and its soldiers going -every man for himself-.". With tens of thousands of VNPCs going nuts, those soldiers probably aren't noticing everything everyone does immediately in terms of the handful of PC's online.

I think I'd most like to see more world updates still.  Items, rooms, NPCs, etc.

*Re-evaluate the Allanak tavern situation.  I still feel like there are enough characters in the social strata between Bynners and nobles that Allanak needs 3 public taverns.
*Clean up some of Allanak's battle damage.  Those sewer holes are literally a King's Age old.  Update the region in general to reflect the removal of that pesky volcano.
*Update trade routes.  If not an actual road, alternate paths should certainly have been better worn-in and/or marked over the last age as the North Road got busted up.
*Elementalists Quarter still has some inconsistencies since the last "update" to the temples.  Clean out the wandering mundane NPCs.  I don't like the idea of merging all the temples, but a common area where it is clearly OK to practice magick would be interesting.  Finish fixing the "thrice the height of three half-giants" wall descriptions.
*Fire pistons items!
*More cloaks!  Cloaks are the most visible piece of gear people wear and I think there should be a lot more variety available.  Maybe, at least, change the custom tailored cloaks to be actually desirable by adding pockets and a hood.


Second choice would be code updates.  As mentioned, combat (skill progression) code and crimcode are definitely big ones.

Quote from: Refugee on June 19, 2015, 11:01:42 AM
Crimcode.

Oooh!  I change my vote!

Wow. An in depth crim code would be bonkers.

Quote from: Refugee on June 19, 2015, 11:01:42 AM
Crimcode.  You shouldn't have to stand around getting firebombed inside your clan hall and still be flagged wanted if you attack!  Some kind of thing to make it easy for staff to modify crimcode behavior for in-city combat rpts.  It's got to be as frustrating for them as it is for us.

This was not a bug, the code worked as designed.  It is not the best code, nor may it be how you would code it, but that does not make it a bug.

Getting rid of the GDB.

Quote from: manonfire on June 19, 2015, 12:16:48 PM
Getting rid of the GDB.

Haha. No.

I'm not voting, but I'll put a bit of two cents in.  The game is a fine balancing act along with antiquated code that can be difficult to work with.  Thankfully though there has been some awesome progress in painful areas.

I personally think the economy could use some work, but economy, like most things, is a very careful balancing act.  Take too much, Newbs suffer or all players suffer... though this may not be a bad idea.  Add too much, everything becomes too easy.  Some will argue that it is already easy, well, that is because we that have been here a long time know how to utilize it.  Now this of course is my opinion, not the view of staff a whole.  I do enjoy reading constructive criticism for sure though.

Quote from: Marauder Moe on June 19, 2015, 11:17:39 AM
*Update trade routes.  If not an actual road, alternate paths should certainly have been better worn-in and/or marked over the last age as the North Road got busted up.

;)

I'm OK with things being hard. As for newbs, I don't really think a complete greenhorn should be trying to indie it from the start anyway. I'd rather they be intimidated and seek company or a clan to survive. Groups are where you discover what Armageddon is any way, as far as culture and mores and commonplace world information  goes.

Quote from: Asanadas on June 19, 2015, 12:13:08 PM

Quote from: Refugee on June 19, 2015, 11:01:42 AM
Crimcode.  You shouldn't have to stand around getting firebombed inside your clan hall and still be flagged wanted if you attack!  Some kind of thing to make it easy for staff to modify crimcode behavior for in-city combat rpts.  It's got to be as frustrating for them as it is for us.

This was not a bug, the code worked as designed.  It is not the best code, nor may it be how you would code it, but that does not make it a bug.

I wasn't saying it was a bug, I'm saying I'd like the code to work differently.  This thread wasn't a thread about what we think are bugs...

Never fear, Refugee, Asanadas was being lovably snarky.

Quote from: Refugee on June 19, 2015, 03:27:23 PM
I wasn't saying it was a bug, I'm saying I'd like the code to work differently.  This thread wasn't a thread about what we think are bugs...

Noted.

Yeeaaaah, I understand the sentiment and all...


But in a game like this, I feel like the first character should end up as an eye-opener that things are actually hard, not as a supportive 'See?  You can do it!'

When your character is starving and thirsty, I think they've figured out they need help, Addict.

I was agreeing with you on the indie thing and saying them having to get into a group is good.

Oh. Heh. I'm sorry.

Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on June 19, 2015, 04:18:15 PM
Oh. Heh. I'm sorry.

I think the 'I understand the sentiment' statement made it seem to respond directly to you.

I meant it to refer to the sentiment that we always needed to be moving into a newbie friendly direction, which I do think is false in -most- cases (not all).

Is it taken for granted that everything does need to be reformed rather than added to? Any links to threads where this is expanded upon? It all looks good to me. Some additions would be nice (automate skill gains/extended subguilds) but I wasn't aware massive reforms were needed.

Quote from: Asanadas on June 18, 2015, 03:27:32 PM
Priority as a community right now is Southern clay pits.

This is an addition instead of a reform though, right? Maybe I'm just getting hung up on the word reform. I'm going to assume I'm being particularly finnicky and just go with changes (which can include additions or revamps of current systems).

In which case I'd go with extended subguilds and skill bumps being automated. But it's easy to say "more code" or "more stuff" but in reality coders are limited (don't we have 2 coders in total? Although I believe scripts can be done with anyone with the knowledge) so there's always going to be a bottle neck. Rather than wanting more code or more stuff, I'd say a realistic expectation is more craftables. This won't necessarily involve more items, but it will involve more of the existing items being craftable.

Quote from: Clearsighted on June 18, 2015, 06:11:55 PMAn economy for example, doesn't work without being driven by consumption. In Armageddon, there is only two forms of consumption that is common to every player. That is hunger and thirst. However, it's fairly trivial to completely negate all possible expenditures related to staying fed and watered by joining a clan

I thought no-one ever joined clans though, right? Wasn't everyone going the indie route because there was no profit in clans? So what do all of these indie people do regarding food and water? Or has the tide turned and now everyone joins clans?

Quote from: Marauder Moe on June 19, 2015, 11:17:39 AM*Re-evaluate the Allanak tavern situation.  I still feel like there are enough characters in the social strata between Bynners and nobles that Allanak needs 3 public taverns.

There's that noble-only "tavern". Do people use that? If not, why not and how would adding a third tavern change things?

When I started no-one ever used "Red's" and it was always Trader's Inn or the Gaj. "Red's" would go through popular phases because one or two long lived PCs would make it their hang out, but other than that it was the red headed stepchild. Unless you wanted mudsex that is ;)

Quote from: Marauder Moe on June 19, 2015, 11:17:39 AMI don't like the idea of merging all the temples, but a common area where it is clearly OK to practice magick would be interesting.  Finish fixing the "thrice the height of three half-giants" wall descriptions.

I think this comes down to Player (and possibly Staff) expectations being X while the virtual world says Y. There is an area where people in the magickers quarter do have fire breathing and float balls (and one echo in this area involves someone casting a particularly potent "spell". I can clarify for staff if they don't know what I'm eluding to). These aren't coded spells, but they are magick. So I would argue that the world itself tells us magick can be cast in that area. Whether or not PC templars or staff agree with that assertion is another matter. But the world itself tells us that it's okay.

This post isn't to say we shouldn't discuss what we want changed. I'm simply saying that some things don't need staff intervention at all, others might need staff intervention to set expectations while others might not need as much work as they initially think. Ultimately I'm sure staff are aware of a lot of this and have put it in a priority queue to attend to. But as someone whose worked in helpdesk for quite a few years, I know adding more things to the queue doesn't necessarily get anything done faster ;)

Lots of good ideas here. There were a few I want to respond to.

GDB Redesign
So, I am a web developer and the GDB is practically a human rights violation. It's implemented with a series of nested table layouts, which is the web equivalent of building a pre-school with asbestos and lead paint. If this were a federal website, you would be have received a class action lawsuit by now. Also it at least needs an outer bounding box instead of 100% width. I have to shrink the window every time I want to read something. I'm sure this was an out of box solution and not something the staff coded themselves, but you guys should seriously consider an upgrade.

Crimcode Revamp
I don't presume to know that there needs to be a switch for shutting down crimcode, but there are some things I would like to see pealed back a bit if possible. It never felt right to me that, in this setting, guards would be perfectly cool with a fistfight breaking out in the tavern, but not a kick being thrown. And it always feels like such a forced scene when you have two people sitting in a bar laying out blatant death threats to one another, yet neither of them will do anything to one another because they're safe in the knowledge that they cant kill each other because of the crimcode, and they can't brawl each other because one of them is sitting... It would be cool if crimcode were pealed back to only be effective within line of sight of a guard (1 screen at night, 3 screens during the day). What would also be cool is a bribe command. Bribe a guard standing somewhere and he'll walk one screen away for every 100 coins you give him. Bribe a guard subduing you X amount for Y crime and he'll let you go. Feels in line with the setting to me. "Bribe soldier 300 leave", "Bribe soldier 500 release"


Economy - This is my #1
So what I think would come as the largest benefit would be to improve the economy. I think the economy is good for players < 5 days played. After that, there's nothing to spend money on. (This probably varies depending on what your role is. I'm generally an indie, so I make money pretty easily. It's a little harder to make coins in clans if you're playing right but that's beside the point. As it stands you mostly just need enough coins to get the gear you want with your character, and after that the only thing you have to spend money on is an apartment if you're a mudsexer, or food and water if you're an unclanned tavern sitter. Obsidian is so plentiful that it's almost useless to try bribing PCs. (I mean, you can, but you're only going to succeed if they're already conducive to what you're selling. Your coin isn't going to change minds or loyalties. Ever.)

Personally I would love to see at least some part of this be regulated by steeper item degradation. Weapons wear out like armor currently does (rather than just randomly breaking), and armor degrades faster and costs more to repair. Eventually things are just beyond repair and need replaced. It doesn't change the economy much for short-lived characters, but if you want to run around with a horror shell breastplate, and and a gem-encrusted sword you're going to need to reinvest in heavily in those items, making them a constaint resource drain, and thus available mainly status items -- not things you see Privates and Troopers wearing around at the Gaj. There was a whole nother thread going in the last year or two about this, so I won't expound it further here. You can read my full thoughts there.

Quote from: Synthesis on June 18, 2015, 06:15:52 PM
Last time I was in a clan, there were rules against selling any of the stuff you hunted.  Basically everything you put in your bag belonged to the House, until your boss told you otherwise.

And congressman are supposed to represent the interests of their constituents. If leader PCs aren't cracking down, House hunters can make serious bank. I remember a couple years ago, one of my characters found himself in the apartment of a Salarri hunter (might have even been the First or Second Hunter.) I couldn't believe myself because, looking around this character had easily 10,000 coins worth of high end gear, clothes, and jewelry laying around. What's more boggling is, at that time, the main crafter of the house was paying the Byn to bring him scrab shells. If I were a Salarri leader PC I would've cut this chicks hands off and fired her. Of course, I'm kind of a dick though.
TLDR; Salarri hunter cannot best a scrab, has 10,000k worth of gear. >.<

Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on June 20, 2015, 12:10:51 PM
Personally I would love to see at least some part of this be regulated by steeper item degradation. Weapons wear out like armor currently does (rather than just randomly breaking), and armor degrades faster and costs more to repair. Eventually things are just beyond welry

So as well as grinding to get somewhere, grinding just to stay where you are.

Yeah, I like the thought of bone, glue, and sinew wearing down rather than subject to random shattering.

Quote from: MeTekillot on June 20, 2015, 04:56:19 PM
rather than subject to random shattering.

Which almost never happens.

Yeah, exactly. I'm swinging a piece of sharpened bone or a bit of knapped glass at a dude. It shouldn't be nigh indestructible.

Woah there Eyeball Romney, I'm not talking about taxing success. I'm talking about a system that I think could give the game economy a more realistic feel, and potentially even stimulate more sales. As it stands it's easy enough to accrue enough resources (money, allies, etc.) that by 20-30 days played your mid-ranking hunter has nothing better to do with his money than try to outbid junior nobility at GMH auctions. As far as weapon degradation - they should degrade faster than armor, realistically, instead of not at all. You take a steel longsword into battle and by the end of the fight it will have eighth inch nicks up and down the blade and might be too bent to fit back into a sheath. Steal is hard to resist dings, and flexible to bend without breaking. The materials our characters use are not. A stone-tipped spear shouldn't hold together through the course of 3 fights, let alone 3,000. I'm just proposing you need to drop another 100-200 sid to replace your weapons every hundred hours or so of hunting.

Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on June 20, 2015, 11:52:59 PM
Woah there Eyeball Romney, I'm not talking about taxing success. I'm talking about a system that I think could give the game economy a more realistic feel, and potentially even stimulate more sales. As it stands it's easy enough to accrue enough resources (money, allies, etc.) that by 20-30 days played your mid-ranking hunter has nothing better to do with his money than try to outbid junior nobility at GMH auctions. As far as weapon degradation - they should degrade faster than armor, realistically, instead of not at all. You take a steel longsword into battle and by the end of the fight it will have eighth inch nicks up and down the blade and might be too bent to fit back into a sheath. Steal is hard to resist dings, and flexible to bend without breaking. The materials our characters use are not. A stone-tipped spear shouldn't hold together through the course of 3 fights, let alone 3,000. I'm just proposing you need to drop another 100-200 sid to replace your weapons every hundred hours or so of hunting.

We could give the game a more realistic feel by requiring everyone to take periodic dumps too, but it wouldn't make the game better.

I'd rather have something new and positive to spend money on, instead of having to spend time running just to stay in place.

I agree with armor taking a tad more damage faster, and even more with weapons wearing down. But clothing items need to wear out too, ideally with a counter based on outdoor rooms traversed. Food needs to give you minor bonus based on quality, as well.

Eating uncooked food should make you sick, imo.

Absolutely agree ... well, in particular, uncooked meat. However, it should at the very least impose a slight stat decrease, either via the attributes or the numbered stats such as hp.

Quote from: Eyeball on June 21, 2015, 01:45:57 AM

Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on June 20, 2015, 11:52:59 PM
Woah there Eyeball Romney, I'm not talking about taxing success. I'm talking about a system that I think could give the game economy a more realistic feel, and potentially even stimulate more sales. As it stands it's easy enough to accrue enough resources (money, allies, etc.) that by 20-30 days played your mid-ranking hunter has nothing better to do with his money than try to outbid junior nobility at GMH auctions. As far as weapon degradation - they should degrade faster than armor, realistically, instead of not at all. You take a steel longsword into battle and by the end of the fight it will have eighth inch nicks up and down the blade and might be too bent to fit back into a sheath. Steal is hard to resist dings, and flexible to bend without breaking. The materials our characters use are not. A stone-tipped spear shouldn't hold together through the course of 3 fights, let alone 3,000. I'm just proposing you need to drop another 100-200 sid to replace your weapons every hundred hours or so of hunting.

We could give the game a more realistic feel by requiring everyone to take periodic dumps too, but it wouldn't make the game better.

I'd rather have something new and positive to spend money on, instead of having to spend time running just to stay in place.

I hear what you're saying, but I think I disagree. I think things are in game are really good. My characters are well fed and happy. There's lots of stuff to have. And all of that is good. But I don't know that lots of good is good for the game. I think we want a little more harsh. I think we need negative things to spend money on. And the nice thing about stuff wearing out (it doesn't have to wear out fast) is that it targets the right set. Not the new character who needs stuff, but the characters who already have stuff.

First off, Why?

We eat almost every Fruit, Veg, grain uncooked IRL without getting sick.

And Many of us eat plenty of uncooked meat without getting sick...And Zalanthan people are supposed to be tougher, Not to mention the non-humans, at least 3 of which are MUCH tougher then humans.


Meh, silliness.

Quote from: X-D on June 21, 2015, 01:20:13 PM
First off, Why?

For the same reason we need coded menstrual cramps, duh.

My only comment will be:   I think the economy needs fixin', and the stratification between noble and rich indie merchant should be miles wide.  Hell, the divide between GMH playboy and Suzie the tailor should be miles wide.  However you have to do it.

Oh hell. Here we go again. You know perfectly well that ... ok, fine, but you really don't think we should cook the meat from a spider? I don't care about forcing you to cook it, or everything that isn't poisoned, but well prepared meals giving you comfort hp, stun, or even echos about good aftertaste would bring cooking alive as an occupation and another thing to spend bucks on, as well as being another great thing about clans which provide you grub.

But no, X, no, you don't have to cook it. Gah.

Quote from: X-D on June 21, 2015, 01:20:13 PM
And Many of us eat plenty of uncooked meat without getting sick...

While I agree with you that Zalanthans are tougher than Earthians, I still don't think either of us are able to eat an entire haunch of uncooked meat with no repercussions. I don't think we should add terradin code to uncooked steak, but I wouldn't mind if it were a kind of nauseant represented by a minor endurance debuff. Not fatal, not a major hinderence, just not completely ignorable. The only thing I would add to this was that anyone at any level of hte cooking skill should be able to at least try to cook any type of meat. Last time I checked there were a few types of meat which had no cook recipes, and I would personally emote cooking and then eat raw.

I also like the idea of implementing certain kinds of nutrition, since many poor Zalanthans make due on a single food source. Rinthi's eat rat-kebobs with no bread or fruit. Red Stormers eat travel cakes, but not a lot of meat. People in the south in general don't eat too much fruit. It would be neat to see the kinds of food you eat tied to your stats in some way. Not in an immediate sense, but more like if you haven't eaten meat in the last few days played, you might start getting warning messages related to it that, if ignored, would lead to a slight strength debuff to represent emaciation. If you eat only meat, maybe you need some more fruits, vegies, grains, whatever to get the nutrients you're missing. It would really help to drive home the disparaging difference between poor indies and the house employees with full larders at their disposal.

Quote from: Kismetic on June 21, 2015, 03:28:04 PM
My only comment will be:   I think the economy needs fixin', and the stratification between noble and rich indie merchant should be miles wide.  Hell, the divide between GMH playboy and Suzie the tailor should be miles wide.  However you have to do it.

Yup, that's exactly what I'm trying to drive home with my proposals. Anyone can save up the sid for an expensive one time purchase currently, but if there were maintenance on those hella expensive items, they would be less popular amongst people who should have less resources available. But as the game stands now, a decent ranger can rake in more sid than a Junior noble's allowance. Easily. So we have no concept of this amongst the player base.

Here is my Arm wishlist:

* Skill trees as opposed to preset guilds, allowing for more flexibility in character creation.

* Anyone can learn one crafting trade outside their skill tree to journeyman. Those who can craft will probably greb less.

* Everything is craftable. I know the warehouses are a targeted solution, but IMO this would be better.

* Public crafting lists. Maybe just for up to journeyman level crafts.

* Mastercraft booze. Speaks for itself.

* Outfit code of some sort. There would probably be more of a market for clothes if changing out of armor wasn't such a pain in the ass. Yes, I know you can alias these things, but an in game solution would be better. Arm is an RP game, not a game you should have to script for.

* And on the backend note: color and more than a 35 char limit to sdescs.

* Wisdom modifier for following into holes, or fall damage revamped to just knock you out. I would rather die to the gith swarming the bottom of a hole than the hole itself.

* More dangerous mobs on commonly traveled routes to encourage having an escort or traveling in numbers. The last time I checked, the gith in the Red were practically extinct from overhunting.

I'm pretty meh on the idea of nutrition. I'd rather see more coded diseases and stuff for physicians to do than people having to worry about the food pyramid.

Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on June 21, 2015, 05:31:08 PM
Rinthi's eat rat-kebobs with no bread or fruit.

Pretty sure they're rat kebabs, not kabobs. If memory serves the description has them encased in bread.

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/00928/kebab-682_928902a.jpg

Now back from the derail.

1. More "things that matter"-type plotlines that don't require you to be in a clan to get involved in, that also don't require you to ask someone in a clan to learn about, that also don't require you to ask someone "who knows and ain't telling" to learn about. If that means more Lord of Storms and Plainsman stuff, then sure, more of that. If it means Copper Wars Part Deux, then sure. If it means Mantis Sacking Luir's IV then I'm up for it. Just something that can involve anyone and everyone, that isn't some big deal subtlety secret that everyone knows about OOCly but has to ICly pretend to be oblivious. I'm FINE with the staff animating "important" people. Influential people, significant people. I'm also fine with high-karma players playing overpowered sorcerers, because they create plotlines that everyone can get in on. Make a new end of the world plotline, that doesn't actually end the world but knocks a chunk out of it (and maybe reveals a secret passage to something beyond the Known, thus expanding the Known while destroying part of it all at the same time).

2. NPC merchants need to be fixed in a way that doesn't result in "he who makes it right after game reboot wins - everyone else loses."

That's it. I'm okay with pretty much everything else.

Economy reform    - 25 (39.7%) ----> Alright. Almost 40%. That' a pretty significant chunk of change.



Code related reforms (combat maybe?) - 19 (30.2%) ----> Nice. 30%. That fills my pie with two big tasks already.


GDB reforms    - 2 (3.2%) ---> Sorry you two.

Clan related reforms (Docs? maybe)    - 8 (12.7%) ---> Maybe one day!

Others?    - 9 (14.3%)

---------

I have absolutely no say whatsoever in anything, or in how this information was used.
It does look like there are two clear areas of interest. Others had some good stuff too.

Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on June 20, 2015, 12:10:51 PM

And congressman are supposed to represent the interests of their constituents. If leader PCs aren't cracking down, House hunters can make serious bank. I remember a couple years ago, one of my characters found himself in the apartment of a Salarri hunter (might have even been the First or Second Hunter.) I couldn't believe myself because, looking around this character had easily 10,000 coins worth of high end gear, clothes, and jewelry laying around. What's more boggling is, at that time, the main crafter of the house was paying the Byn to bring him scrab shells. If I were a Salarri leader PC I would've cut this chicks hands off and fired her. Of course, I'm kind of a dick though.
TLDR; Salarri hunter cannot best a scrab, has 10,000k worth of gear. >.<

There's a good reason why GMH hunters are so often blinged out. Pretty much every GMH is bursting at the seams, such that there is very little need for many items and no place to put them. There is the exception for a few random materials at any given time, but generally, it makes better sense to sell. GMH hunters tend to have very cozy setups with virtually zero living expenses that aren't provided by the clan (water, food, stabling, arrows, bandages, etc).

Even at a conservative estimate, the average GMH hunter is going to save about 40-80 sids a day in stabling costs, and a ~60-80 sids in food/water, and that's without touching the rest (gear laying around, arrows, bandages, sold stuff). It adds up over time. A semi-active GMH hunter pretty much benefits in covered expenses each session, as much as their monthly salary is worth (~150 sids), at a minimum.

GMH hunters are probably the solid upper middle class of the game.

I once met a girl whose diet consisted entirely of raw meat and green vegetables. Bit skinny, but energetic, intelligent, was more than ten years ago, gave me a long reading list after we spent a whole day talking, and never saw her again.

Point being, you can eat raw meat without getting sick. I have done this, several times (a couple times I didn't even know until afterwards, whoops). You just have to trust the source of your meat (and it can't be pork or chicken). The worst things you can get sick with from beef CANNOT be cooked out of it, look it up, prions, mad cow disease.

Some peeps eat raw 'tok meat though.  :(

Assuming you butchered it properly, you mostly won't get sick from eating raw meat in real life.  You almost certainly won't get sick -immediately-, because the types of organisms that cause acute or subacute food poisoning don't just hang out in muscle tissue (unless you're eating a blatantly necrotic/abscessed piece of meat).

You shouldn't eat ground meat raw, because the equipment used to grind up the meat tends to harbor organisms that can subsequently reproduce within the ground meat, which can make you acutely ill.  Solid cuts of meat tend not to have this problem, unless a) you're butchering a large quantity of meat regularly in the same work area, which has been contaminated or hasn't been properly cleaned and b) the meat has afterward been sitting around long enough for enough microbial reproduction cycles to reach a minimum infectious dose (both of which vary based on organism and conditions).

However, there are a number of parasites that form cysts in muscle tissue, and those can make you quite sick over a longer term.  So...anyway...yeah.  Acutely getting sick from meat you just hunted...doesn't really make sense, unless there's some peculiar Zalanthan justification for it.

I think it would be interesting if Zalanthas acquired a tilt to its axis and thus, seasons... and maybe rain one or two days a year, with lightning storms.

It already has an axial tilt.

QuoteMonths in the Year (3) 
              Descending Sun
              Low Sun
              Ascending Sun

Quote from: Revenant on June 22, 2015, 04:08:17 PM
I think it would be interesting if Zalanthas acquired a tilt to its axis and thus, seasons... and maybe rain one or two days a year, with lightning storms.

I've been assuming the sandstorms have lightning displays.

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/418236/how-sandstorms-generate-spectacular-lightning-displays/ (http://www.technologyreview.com/view/418236/how-sandstorms-generate-spectacular-lightning-displays/)

I forget if there are stars, however.

Quote from: nauta on June 22, 2015, 04:29:38 PM

Quote from: Revenant on June 22, 2015, 04:08:17 PM
I think it would be interesting if Zalanthas acquired a tilt to its axis and thus, seasons... and maybe rain one or two days a year, with lightning storms.

I've been assuming the sandstorms have lightning displays.

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/418236/how-sandstorms-generate-spectacular-lightning-displays/ (http://www.technologyreview.com/view/418236/how-sandstorms-generate-spectacular-lightning-displays/)

I forget if there are stars, however.

Quote from: Help StarsStars                                                                   (Sky)

   There are some few visible stars in the night sky of Zalanthas.  However,
they are often obscured by a haze of dust or silt, and are more often than
not drowned out by the brightness of Jihae or Lirathu.
See also:
   Moons, Jihae, Lirathu, Time

Lightning and thunder in a sand storm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqF7QuDGQIU)

Upbeat, the lirathu-tressed bard sings, in wilderness-accented sirihish:
     "The stars at night
      Ain't real big and bright..."

Clapping four times enthusiastically before, the lirathu-tressed bard sings, in wilderness-accented sirihish:
     "Deep in the heart of Zalanthas!"

Quote from: Marauder Moe on June 22, 2015, 04:11:57 PM
It already has an axial tilt.

QuoteMonths in the Year (3) 
              Descending Sun
              Low Sun
              Ascending Sun

Yes, and one season, HOT!

Why do I feel like a derail happened, somewhere.

There actually are (or are supposed to be) seasons in relation to growing certain crops.

I would kind of like there to be a slightly more realistic environment myself, with 1 or 2 days of rain. It could add a period of other harsh muddiness to break up the times of harsh grittiness. Rooms could turn muddy and boggy, flash floods could occur. New challenges with new opportunities.

Quote from: BadSkeelz on June 22, 2015, 05:00:02 PM
There actually are (or are supposed to be) seasons in relation to growing certain crops.

I would kind of like there to be a slightly more realistic environment myself, with 1 or 2 days of rain. It could add a period of other harsh muddiness to break up the times of harsh grittiness. Rooms could turn muddy and boggy, flash floods could occur. New challenges with new opportunities.

It should rain somewhere, even if it's in the remote mountains. Something has to replenish the ground water.

Quote from: Eyeball on June 22, 2015, 05:08:43 PM
It should rain somewhere, even if it's in the remote mountains. Something has to replenish the ground water.

Magic. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'd rather see dew form after cold nights than see actual rain.  Most deserts don't get rain.  Most deserts do get dew.

Most deserts get rain eventually. Even if it's just once in 3-4 years in the most dry areas. But Zalanthas isn't Earth, so comparisons aren't very easy.

We have a huge forest though, and that needs to get water from somewhere, unless it feeds off of the blood of noobie hunters.

I surmise that it rains outside the Known, and trickles into the Known via underground rivers, from whence our spring gs and oasis replenish.

My body is ready for the southern clay pits!

I think the occassional shower would be cool, it's a foreboding, ominous occurance, the sky grows dark as a low rumble of distant thunder echoes through the land, a cool wind hits you, tingling your senses with the slightest moisture...

Oh no, not again!

And on these days, a small, but surviving race of mythical humanoid beasts crawl out of deep caverns and ruins, spreading misery and mayhem wherever they travel, until, the rain ceases, at which point, they slip back into their holes.

Quote from: Revenant on June 23, 2015, 03:08:51 AM
I think the occassional shower would be cool, it's a foreboding, ominous occurance, the sky grows dark as a low rumble of distant thunder echoes through the land, a cool wind hits you, tingling your senses with the slightest moisture...

Oh no, not again!

And on these days, a small, but surviving race of mythical humanoid beasts crawl out of deep caverns and ruins, spreading misery and mayhem wherever they travel, until, the rain ceases, at which point, they slip back into their holes.

I like. Reminds me of Pitch Black.

That would be pretty cool, actually.

I searched for electric sandstorm.

Electric Sandstorm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqtF7_Op-10)

Sooo not what I had in mind...

Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on June 23, 2015, 07:57:30 PM
I searched for electric sandstorm.

Electric Sandstorm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqtF7_Op-10)

Sooo not what I had in mind...

What song is that?

Darude - Sandstorm

I still think the mud is in need of a name change.

Armageddon has way too much association with biblical end-times rather than desert-world stuff.

Holy shit, did it just get Darude up in here, Darude so rude

Quote from: Jingo on June 24, 2015, 01:17:22 AM
I still think the mud is in need of a name change.

Armageddon has way too much association with biblical end-times rather than desert-world stuff.

Yeah we could call it:

Allanak

We always need more (PC driven)plots and PCs involved around them.

That would be nice to have some type of checklist for leader PCs to promote. They can be very vague, or very specifics things. Like collect 100.000 coins and we'll see your Salarr Family member merchant's promotion so that he can have his own wagon. After your 30th contract company will consider you to make a lieutenant.

I know they sound a bit silly, but smart ones can be written down. In anycase these types of goals may give leader players insentive and ambitions to fullfill meanwhile creating some types of struggles and plots. Let's assume there would be 2 sergeant and one lieutenant position. That'd be nice to watch.

I have seen some really great leaders, but when they are not around I think game has hard time to create plots or they become more IMM depended.

Ugh. Please no. There's enough bureaucracy and policy already. I don't want a checklist in order to promote my dudes/ be promoted.

Quote from: MeTekillot on June 28, 2015, 03:04:58 PM
Ugh. Please no. There's enough bureaucracy and policy already. I don't want a checklist in order to promote my dudes/ be promoted.

A checklist of options would be nice though. Things that the staff is hoping the players will work on, and might or might not not be interested in working on. Your noble might have plenty of his own ideas, because you're really good at coming up with plenty of ideas. I might have just a couple of ideas, but sadly I lack the resources (employees, loyal spies, trustworthy secret magickers, the right colored mount, whatever) to accomplish them. Rather than sit around waiting for the resources to show up/log in/be brought to me as a birthday present, I could pick from one of the items on the staff checklist and see how far I can take it.

So rather than "ways you must prove your value in order to get a promotion" it'd be "things you could do that can count toward a promotion."

Quote from: Lizzie on June 28, 2015, 05:49:21 PM

Quote from: MeTekillot on June 28, 2015, 03:04:58 PM
Ugh. Please no. There's enough bureaucracy and policy already. I don't want a checklist in order to promote my dudes/ be promoted.

A checklist of options would be nice though. Things that the staff is hoping the players will work on, and might or might not not be interested in working on. Your noble might have plenty of his own ideas, because you're really good at coming up with plenty of ideas. I might have just a couple of ideas, but sadly I lack the resources (employees, loyal spies, trustworthy secret magickers, the right colored mount, whatever) to accomplish them. Rather than sit around waiting for the resources to show up/log in/be brought to me as a birthday present, I could pick from one of the items on the staff checklist and see how far I can take it.

So rather than "ways you must prove your value in order to get a promotion" it'd be "things you could do that can count toward a promotion."

I dunno, I think this is a step towards generic clan behavior, where the beauty of the clan leader in the past has been their ability to come up with -cool- shit for me to do.  Which is difficult, I always had a hard time...not with coming up with things, but with coming up with things that were actually viable.

A leader who comes in and roleplays, then finds something they think their house would want, and sets everyone on that goal is infinitely more valuable than making it so that everyone comes in and starts on this same goal from the getgo.  Even worse if those generic goals actually receive priority.