So Nyr recently brought up a great point, that jails currently make little IC sense in Zalanthas. Here's his post:
Quote from: Nyr on September 15, 2014, 10:06:15 AM
Quote from: Saellyn on September 15, 2014, 09:40:27 AM
Kind of looks like sorcerers just took a nerf but still cost the same amount of karma regardless. Dunno how I feel about this.
One must take the good with the bad.
There are several things in the game that made more sense at the time, but currently do not.
I think jails are a good example. Your PC breaks some sort of law locally and the PC is dragged off to jail. After "serving time" which is really less than an IC day (even if you murdered someone), you get released. This tends to fly in the face of the expectation that one is playing a character in a real and living world, so much so that the jail experience is often an example of cognitive dissonance: my PC is going to jail for doing a crime, but no one is actually going to punish my PC for it if staff or a PC templar or soldier doesn't notice. Additionally, who's being punished here: the PC, or the player? The PC experiences nothing as a result of being in jail. The player, on the other hand, is absent from the majority of the game during their jail sentence without PC or staff intervention. It's almost like spanking the player for playing (we would assume) a realistic PC that is indeed breaking the law. We allow and even expect that players will play PCs that break the laws of the given city-states within roleplay boundaries, so why the odd situation with the jails?
The answer is that the game has grown and matured faster than the code. Roleplay resources are enormous but coding resources are more limited.
My Idea:
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on September 15, 2014, 10:20:09 AM
What if instead of jails, they just had a bunch of NPC soldier beat you unconscious(taking your coins and weapons), and then report your crime, name and sdesc to a Templar/officer. I agree that Jails don't make any real sense in the game.
Perhaps then Jails could be retrofitted into interrogation rooms.
Perhaps severity of beatings/how much coins they took from you would be effected by severity of crime.
Anyways brainstorm your Jail/crimcode ideas here.
You know, this thread was a little bit of a spoiler, since I totally thought jail was wayyyy worse, even though I've been in it, lots. In particular, and this is my suggestion, I thought:
Your name gets added to The List, available to select AoD PCs and Templar PCs, such that they would KNOW what you did, even if they didn't act on it, maybe going off the list after a bit.
Oh, and you get the shit beat out of you and lose your stuff. Natch.
I like the idea of jail being the "go to" punishment and any creative punishments being handed down by PC Templars who are notified you have gotten thrown in the slammer. I think that is our current system?
I don't mind your punishment being a good solid beat-down by the militia, so long as the militia doing it are PC's. Also, kind of our current system.
NPCs really don't have a severity level of the punishment they're trying to put on you; it's either on, or off. If they're trying to kill you, they're trying to kill you. So I don't see any way for that part of the idea to work. Having played in the AoD and having seen PCs get killed by NPCs even when we were trying diligently to make sure that didn't happen...it's just too risky. (Once when a PC got unreasonably crim-flagged in the Gaj, I had to rescue and start fighting the NPC soldier myself so that the PC could flee and not die. NPCs are pretty unstoppable.)
I pretty much agree with Dman.
Quote from: Desertman on September 15, 2014, 11:03:01 AM
I like the idea of jail being the "go to" punishment and any creative punishments being handed down by PC Templars who are notified you have gotten thrown in the slammer. I think that is our current system?
I don't mind your punishment being a good solid beat-down by the militia, so long as the militia doing it are PC's. Also, kind of our current system.
You're correct. Our current system is to provide one punishment from NPCs and the virtual world, unanimated and unassisted by PCs, and another punishment from PCs and the virtual world, animated and assisted by PCs or staff. That seems like it could be improved upon.
I dunno, jail is annoying but it's nothing to really get super angry over. I like that it gives pc templars/soldiers a chance to get their smug face on and "Oh-ho, thought you could escape our eyes, hmm?"
Quote from: Nyr on September 15, 2014, 11:36:34 AM
You're correct. Our current system is to provide one punishment from NPCs and the virtual world, unanimated and unassisted by PCs, and another punishment from PCs and the virtual world, animated and assisted by PCs or staff. That seems like it could be improved upon.
I hear what you're saying, but the current system also means that if you're playing a criminal and you get crim-flagged (leaving aside any skills or strategies that might allow you to avoid the law despite crim-flagging), your chance of getting in trouble with PCs is not 100%. Sometimes you get thrown in jail and no PC cares, sometimes you get thrown in jail and they do. I see a lot of potential issues with having a system that always goes right from crim-flag to PC alert/intervention.
I say this from having played on both sides of the law at various times.
Oh, I'm talking about taking it a step farther and discussing/reviewing whether murder should be a big deal or not in general, or whether anyone should be able to buy their way out of the jails, or whether it is possible or feasible to have an IC log that templars/leader sergeants can review to see who's been making the rounds in jail and then shake them down for more cash, whether solitary confinement is really a good option for interaction, or even whether there might be alternatives beyond putting a PC in a box for an hour or so, like applying some punishment to them that they have to serve out later with PCs...
Stuff like that.
More brainstorming/ideas/what-not to try and see what we can come up with that would be possible to implement. There may be things that would be really cool but hard to do, or really easy and not that hard to change, etc--this would be where we can discuss that.
I think jail is fine because at the very least, NPC law enforcement needs to stop the crime from progressing.
I like the idea of PC militia/templars being automatically informed about recent PC criminal activity, HOWEVER, PC militia (all characters, really) very often tend to be too fast and loose with sdesc usage. Maybe the system could somehow be coded to not always give 100% of an sdesc or mdesc or something. Maybe repeat offenders and/or more serious crimes result in more detail being given.
Quote from: Nyr on September 15, 2014, 11:36:34 AM
Quote from: Desertman on September 15, 2014, 11:03:01 AM
I like the idea of jail being the "go to" punishment and any creative punishments being handed down by PC Templars who are notified you have gotten thrown in the slammer. I think that is our current system?
I don't mind your punishment being a good solid beat-down by the militia, so long as the militia doing it are PC's. Also, kind of our current system.
You're correct. Our current system is to provide one punishment from NPCs and the virtual world, unanimated and unassisted by PCs, and another punishment from PCs and the virtual world, animated and assisted by PCs or staff. That seems like it could be improved upon.
I like the idea of social shaming/marking as a punishment. That seems VERY Zalanthan.
What if when you get thrown into the Allanaki jails, the reason for your arrest is taken into consideration and you are marked/branded with such?
Theft? - Right Shoulder -
A crudely healed broken-coin brand scar. -
The flesh here has been crudely burned and allowed to heal in an uneven scar faintly resembling the shape of an obsidian coin broken in half. It is about the size of the average human thumb.
Assault? - Right Shoulder -
A crudely healed closed-fist brand scar. -
The flesh here has been crudely burned and allowed to heal in uneven scar faintly resembling the shape of a closed fist. It is about the size of the average human thumb.
Murder? - Right Shoulder -
A crudely healed broken-dagger brand scar. -
The flesh here has been crudely burned and allowed to heal in an uneven scar faintly resembling the shape of a small dagger, its blade broken in half. It is about the size of the average human thumb.
You get where I am going with this. These are just examples. Also, multiple arrests might result in multiple brands?
Right Shoulder -
A pair of crudely healed broken-coin brand scars.
Right Shoulder-
A few crudely healed broken-coin brand scars.
Right Shoulder -
A crudely healed broken-coin brand scar and a crudely healed closed-fist brand scar.
Right Shoulder -
A series of crudely healed brand scars. This one would work in a format similar to our tattoo artists in town now I would imagine and would be updated with every new arrest. Something like this:
A series of crudely healed brand scars mark the flesh of the victim here. Each consists of puffy unevenly healed flesh about the size of the average human thumb and depicts the following; Several crudely healed broken-coin brand scars. A pair of crudely healed broken-dagger brand scars. Many crudely healed closed-fist brand scars.This would all take some coding of course. But, I think it is a neat idea. It seems very Zalanthan to me. I can even see Rinthers/criminal types considering the brands a right of passage/indicative of true "street cred" among the gangs.
Instead of there being an OOC list of criminals that the militia/templarate could check. Now there is an IC list they can check....right on the criminals.
Paying a bribe to a PC officer or templar to get your name put on a list where you don't get crim-flagged at all, preferably with some kind of discretion; e.g. levels of crime you can get out of based on how much you paid them. (They decide how much you pay them. That way they can charge humans less, rinthis more, elves even more, etc.) (Don't make this be for templars only, pleaaaaaaase. Officers need bribe love too.)
IC log of PCs that got crim-flagged for officers and templars to check.
You'd still need some location for interrogations and "AoD hands-on trainings" to happen.
Jail escapes?
Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 15, 2014, 12:01:18 PM
Paying a bribe to a PC officer or templar to get your name put on a list where you don't get crim-flagged at all, preferably with some kind of discretion; e.g. levels of crime you can get out of based on how much you paid them. (They decide how much you pay them. That way they can charge humans less, rinthis more, elves even more, etc.) (Don't make this be for templars only, pleaaaaaaase. Officers need bribe love too.)
IC log of PCs that got crim-flagged for officers and templars to check.
You'd still need some location for interrogations and "AoD hands-on trainings" to happen.
Jail escapes?
I think this is a little too "Tuluki Licensed Criminals" for my taste. I like for this sort of thing to be unofficial with no policy.
That is a personal preference though. I wouldn't hate it. I just wouldn't prefer it.
Quote from: Desertman on September 15, 2014, 12:03:18 PM
I think this is a little too "Tuluki Licensed Criminals" for my taste. I like for this sort of thing to be unofficial with no policy.
It wouldn't be a policy, it would be an option. Right now you can bribe or be bribed up the wazoo, but codedly you can't do anything about crim-flagging unless the PC templar and the PC criminal are in the same room together. All this does is open up opportunity for the type of corruption that is already supposed to exist.
I would also like to see officers of the AoD be able to clear crim-flags. Oh how many times did I run a full interrogation/torture session on someone, extort everything necessary, find out everything necessary...no templar is online..."Sorry, man, you're just gonna have to hang out in jail some more." Letting officers (that means Sergeants+) clear crim flags would allow them to be more corrupt, plus make things more flexible and playable for both sides.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 15, 2014, 12:07:32 PM
Quote from: Desertman on September 15, 2014, 12:03:18 PM
I think this is a little too "Tuluki Licensed Criminals" for my taste. I like for this sort of thing to be unofficial with no policy.
It wouldn't be a policy, it would be an option. Right now you can bribe or be bribed up the wazoo, but codedly you can't do anything about crim-flagging unless the PC templar and the PC criminal are in the same room together. All this does is open up opportunity for the type of corruption that is already supposed to exist.
I would also like to see officers of the AoD be able to clear crim-flags. Oh how many times did I run a full interrogation/torture session on someone, extort everything necessary, find out everything necessary...no templar is online..."Sorry, man, you're just gonna have to hang out in jail some more." Letting officers (that means Sergeants+) clear crim flags would allow them to be more corrupt, plus make things more flexible and playable for both sides.
I am ABSOLUTELY down to see officers of the AoD/Legion be able to clear crim-flags. I've always wondered why they can't. This alone would be enough to allow for more corruption.
I just don't like the idea of a system where you can basically pay ahead of time to be allowed to commit crimes with no crim-code against you. This suggests that paying one Templar or one Officer somehow magically means every soldier in the legions vast and every Templar in the legions vast is now aware and on your side. There is inner-corruption in the templarate. Maybe one Templar WANTS to kill you for being the stool pigeon of his hated enemy Templar. It would result in a meta-game of criminals just paying ahead of time to commit crimes with coded immunity. Maybe I am not understanding your idea correctly. As I am reading it, paying ahead of time would mean you wouldn't be crim-coded if you got caught as if every Templar and soldier NPC in the city knew who you were and what you were about?
Maybe sergeant+ could pardon only in jail cells? But still, jail terms are lenient enough that I was generally OK with: "Thanks for cooperating. Cool off a bit and you'll be out in no time."
Actually what I'd really like is for officers to be able to incriminate in the jails so occupants won't be dumped on the street just because the PC soldiers stepped outside the cell for a moment.
Meanwhile, I also dislike the idea of automated pre-authorized crime in Allanak. Heck, even in Tuluk, a licensed criminal still doesn't actually receive any quarter from NPC law enforcement, AFAIK.
Quote from: Desertman on September 15, 2014, 12:12:16 PM
I just don't like the idea of a system where you can basically pay ahead of time to be allowed to commit crimes with no crim-code against you. It would result in a meta-game of criminals just paying ahead of time to commit crimes with coded immunity. (I am not be understanding your idea correctly. As I am reading it, paying ahead of time would mean you wouldn't be crim-coded if you got caught?).
Since the criminal's access to the list would run through PCs, and PCs would decide who gets on and who doesn't, and how much the criminal pays and what kind of crime they can avoid being crim-flagged for...it's not like immunity from the law. It's more like "I passed on word to my buddies that this is your territory for petty theft, but if you get caught doing something else, all bets are off." Right now there's no way to do that codedly, so paying bribes for soldiers to look the other way is not at all backed by the code. That means, mostly, soldiers don't get bribed. (Seriously. I always wanted to get bribed and be corrupt. Why didn't anyone ever bribe me? :( )
The effect that I see in game is that since soldiers aren't getting bribed, they tend to be total hardasses for making sure criminals feel the full smack of the law. PC soldiers' jobs are usually excruciatingly boring, plus they get paid terribly (since they are supposed to be making it up in bribes and/or bonuses from their superiors, which are only rarely forthcoming). Let's help soldiers lay off a bit.
Quote from: Marauder Moe on September 15, 2014, 12:15:58 PM
Actually what I'd really like is for officers to be able to incriminate in the jails so occupants won't be dumped on the street just because the PC soldiers stepped outside the cell for a moment.
I'd like officers to be able to incriminate anywhere. RP-wise, an officer can arrest, but codedly there's no way to do that. E.g. your templar boss has said "arrest this dude when you see him" but your only option is subdue, codedly...and then hope that your target's got their no-saves set correctly so that they don't get ganked by any NPC soldiers that may be nearby.
Eh what? Subdue IS coded arrest. It only becomes a problem when, as I mentioned, you try to leave them in a cell.
Quote from: Marauder Moe on September 15, 2014, 12:28:41 PM
Eh what? Subdue IS coded arrest. It only becomes a problem when, as I mentioned, you try to leave them in a cell.
It's not a coded arrest because it doesn't crim-flag them. Also, it very easily goes wrong and you end up with a dead target. The way to make sure your target doesn't end up dead is to have a lengthy OOC conversation first to make sure they've got their no-saves set correctly, which is pretty immersion-breaking, not to mention sort of gives away the game that you're about to arrest them.
Quote from: Marauder Moe on September 15, 2014, 12:28:41 PM
Eh what? Subdue IS coded arrest. It only becomes a problem when, as I mentioned, you try to leave them in a cell.
It's also a problem when someone is fleeing from you(not in your room), running past a whole bunch of soldiers on their way to the 'rinth who don't know any better.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 15, 2014, 12:32:02 PM
Quote from: Marauder Moe on September 15, 2014, 12:28:41 PM
Eh what? Subdue IS coded arrest. It only becomes a problem when, as I mentioned, you try to leave them in a cell.
It's not a coded arrest because it doesn't crim-flag them. Also, it very easily goes wrong and you end up with a dead target. The way to make sure your target doesn't end up dead is to have a lengthy OOC conversation first to make sure they've got their no-saves set correctly, which is pretty immersion-breaking, not to mention sort of gives away the game that you're about to arrest them.
Yeah. You can have a soldier fail 10 subdues in a row on you, then simply swagger past the next 10 guards you see.
I rarely, if ever, went OOC about nosaves before nabbing someone, especially not if they don't have a newbie air about them. Nothing in the soldier docs requires you to do so.
Maybe you problem, Gimf, is that your soldier was too nice. For Tek's sake, my character got tossed in a cell with her once and they ended up playing cards! :D :P
Quote from: Marauder Moe on September 15, 2014, 12:34:52 PM
Maybe you problem, Gimf, is that your soldier was too nice. For Tek's sake, my character got tossed in a cell with her once and they ended up playing cards! :D :P
Uh...you were playing a high-level aide to a noble house. And my soldier was ordered to be nice to your character by her commanding templar, so ??? Not exactly a typical situation there, Moe.
No one ever said Laila was too nice. She was as murder-y and corrupt as anyone else, but I actually pride myself on the great care I took to make sure that opposing players' experiences were not hampered by ancient code that has little nuance. OOCly, I'd rather see criminals live to get away and do crime another day than be ganked by NPCs.
Bah, I was just making a little fun.
Anyway, I too did try to balance things for the criminals. However, people know about nosave arrest, and thus I didn't feel the need to explain it. I never got anyone killed that way.
You also said you had trouble collecting bribes. The way I figured it, coded crimes are hard crimes that you can't really expect a soldier to publicly ignore. Bribes are for softer crimes, like possessing contraband, scams, pissing off important people, or just generally getting on a soldier's nerves. For those you usually had to give some form of solicitation/threat.
Eh, I don't see why fifty other soldiers would ignore you just because you paid one PC soldier off. Why do they care you paid off some other guy in the Arm? They might not even like that guy. They might HATE that guy and want to kill them themselves.
They are a corrupt from the ground-up law enforcement agency in essence. It isn't, "What have you done for the agency lately.", it's "What have you done for me lately?".
My AOD soldiers wouldn't give two fucks that you paid off Officer A, I'm not Officer A, I'm me....and you owe me fucker if you want me to look the other way. We aren't a happy family and their pockets aren't my pockets.
I have personally shelled out thousands upon thousands in bribes to the AOD with characters.
It happens very often and in big numbers in my experience if the soldiers in question I playing their cards right.
Ehh. I had a response for you guys, but forget it.
Hmm. I thought I posted about this somewhere, but can't find it. I'm going crazy!
I like the idea of your name being added to a ledger, if you are processed in the jails. No more 'I got arrested off-peak, so no one knows I got arrested! Woo hoo!' Templars/AoD/Legions should know you've been naughty, as you've been processed, so the jailer takes down your description. This provides an interesting cat-and-mouse for soldiers as well -- They're given vague descriptors of past criminals, but not their name, address, whereabouts, etc. This allows soldiers to round up 'the usual suspects' if a crime went down.
"The short, husky man was arrested on the 16th day of King's Tippy Top, for petty theft."
Descriptions could also be added to the ledger if someone resists arrest and escapes.
"The short, husky man was reported to assault <other description, NPC or PC>, attempted arrest but they fled, on the 16th day of King's Tippy Top."
It would be neat also if Templars could expunge a description from the ledgers at will -- for favors earned, or bribes.
I like the idea of soldiers (Perhaps Corporal or Sergeant and up) being able to incriminate, and pardon certain crimes, allowing for more corruption. Bribe the Corporal and he will make sure your wanted status is decreased for that botched theft. But you owe him/her big time.
Also -- The Wanted System could be tweaked a bit. It seems that you are wanted for an inordinate amount of time, throughout the entire city. It'd be nice if the city were divided into 'zones'. In Tuluk this would mean Freil's Rest, the Warrens, the Noble Quarter, the Tribal Market/Poet's Circle. In Allanak this would be the Commoner's Quarter, the Marketplace, and the Eastern Quarters (Noble and the Merchant's Gate area/GMH area). If you commit a crime and are seen, your description has a chance of being tossed around from zone to zone, depending on the severity of the crime. A petty theft would likely only garner attention in the zone it was committed, while murder would probably put out an APB on your ass. Contrariwise, in Allanak, murder or assault may be treated with less severity, while the punishments are more along the lines of what desert man wrote -- brands, scars, and otherwise public mutilation.
This makes it a more dynamic system for leadership PCs and soldier PCs, while keeping in place the automation of dragging PC's to jail to sit out their time-out.
I feel like adding something akin to the rumor board to the cells would be helpful, that automatically lists sdesc and crime of arrested people. Probably harder to code than I'm aware, but could be nice.
I tried really hard to get incriminate/pardon powers when I played my AoD Lieutenant and was roundly turned down. I still think I should have had it, and I think other officers should be able to earn it as well (it shouldn't just be packaged up with the rank).
I really like the idea of AoD officers being able to somehow get an idea of who has recently been thrown into the jail. It could be as simple as going to a jailer NPC and having him tell you the last two or three PCs who were thrown in. I'd go a step further and say that it should only be available to the officers and not the templars themselves.
The templars probably wouldn't be busying themselves with knowing a who's who of every 'rinth-rat who got arrested - they should rely on their officers to distill all that useless information into the occasional useful tidbit, and that knowledge wall would make it more realistic for officers who want to facilitate bribery and favoritism.
I don't really remember the specifics of getting bribes when I was Lieutenant. I remember that I had way more money than I knew what to do with, and would often forget to draw any sort of pay for IG years at a time.
Quote from: QuillDipper on September 15, 2014, 01:00:49 PM
I feel like adding something akin to the rumor board to the cells would be helpful, that automatically lists sdesc and crime of arrested people. Probably harder to code than I'm aware, but could be nice.
It might be cool if there were one outside of the cells (for Templars, with descriptions of criminals). In this way, the board is cleared every so often, and descriptions are expunged -- The Jailer can't remember everyone, after all, especially given time.
I think if you want to have meaningful change, you need to change the dynamic of arrest person, throw them in jail in case/until PC templar deals with them, releasing them after amount of time if they don't for playability sake.
Let's start with the premise that templars, PC or otherwise, are the end all and be all of Zalanthas justice, and that for some reason, they built the jail too damn far away from the criminals. Soldiers should be able to influence, but not determine, the punishment.
As NPC Allanaki soldier Amos, when I catch a criminal, I don't want to walk all the way to the jail. First, I alert any PC templars, to see if they want to deal with the situation (They could way back yes, no, or jail). If there are not, or they Way me no, I go to plan B. I drag the criminal to the nearest NPC templar (flagged for administering justice) and they do so on the spot. If I was in Tuluk, what is the most quiet way to deal with it? Drag it halfway across the city, or have a NPC templar come to me and administer justice?
In the background I imagine a big matrix of crime types and potential punishements. So punishment for "theft" might have the first ten entries in the matrix, from punishment 1 to punishment 10, ranked according to severity. I would typically have the lowest severity punishments be the fines, medium jail time, the most severe branding/mutilation/death, etc. So I, NPC Amos, drags you to an NPC templar, who does a check on the specific punishments it has been set with. If he levies a fine of 200, we take that much in sid from you. If you don't have enough in sid, we take equipment. If you don't have enough...the severity level bumps up, so you get to go to jail.
Each templar has a personality, so rather than being set with one generic punishment table, each would be actually set with the specific punishments they dole out from the table. So you can have more or less severe templars, ones that punish harshly for theft but are fairly indifferent to murder. With the addition of another set of data, you could make it so that if you are clanned, a specific templar could treat you better (or worse than normal). For example, one that would never do more than a "low" punishment to anyone associated with Fale, but would allow "moderate" punishments of Tor.
How about soldiers? Well, as a PC soldier, you could choose to take the person to jail...or to a specific NPC templar. If an NPC arrests someone, and there is no PC templar on, there should be a mechanism for you to "suggest" to the NPC soldier which NPC templar the criminal is taken to. Given different personility and punishments the NPC templars dole out, you would be influencing the punishment.
It might be easier to have one NPC "judge" templar, I just think it would be less fun, and not really reflect the way justice should be done, given templar's place in society.
I don't know, raw idea, but change the dynamic from letting people rot in jail to immediately going in front of authority and getting something meted out.
Instead of jail, temporary or permanent exile could be an interesting punishment, especially in settlements that don't use jails as a part of their crime code.
Quote from: Molten Heart on September 15, 2014, 05:42:30 PM
Instead of jail, temporary or permanent exile could be an interesting punishment, especially in settlements that don't use jails as a part of their crime code.
Yeah but that's a whole nother punishment of the player that actually is extremely dangerous and kind of mean. Exile is an extreme thing.
We should roll this in to the "I wish there were more arena events" suggestion from last week and just have captured criminals automatically dumped in to the Arenas. Ring the bell and wait five minutes (for spectators). After the delay, spawn a number of foes based on the crimes committed. Survive, you get released. Die, welcome to Armageddon!
Quote from: BadSkeelz on September 15, 2014, 05:46:49 PM
We should roll this in to the "I wish there were more arena events" suggestion from last week and just have captured criminals automatically dumped in to the Arenas. Ring the bell and wait five minutes (for spectators). After the delay, spawn a number of foes based on the crimes committed. Survive, you get released. Die, welcome to Armageddon!
What if jail had a 1/10 chance of being the same amount of time (or even half that) in the arena? :) Pray nobody buffer than you gets arrested.
If I were a templar it'd be a 10/10 chance, personally.
The only downside I see to my system is the possibility of twinks using it to get free foes to fight. You'd have to build in some sort of tracking, so after say the third time of getting arrested for pickpocketing orphans, you get three Braxat instead of three human cut throats.
Quote from: BadSkeelz on September 15, 2014, 05:46:49 PM
We should roll this in to the "I wish there were more arena events" suggestion from last week and just have captured criminals automatically dumped in to the Arenas. Ring the bell and wait five minutes (for spectators). After the delay, spawn a number of foes based on the crimes committed. Survive, you get released. Die, welcome to Armageddon!
I'd be okay with that if they add in NPC's at fresh pickpocket/burglar level of combat skills. Otherwise it basically is just a death sentence.
Quote from: BadSkeelz on September 15, 2014, 05:55:45 PM
If I were a templar it'd be a 10/10 chance, personally.
The only downside I see to my system is the possibility of twinks using it to get free foes to fight. You'd have to build in some sort of tracking, so after say the third time of getting arrested for pickpocketing orphans, you get three Braxat instead of three human cut throats.
The lissome, blue-robed Templar says, in sirihish,
"I'm thinking of a number between one and five."
The scrawny, sharp-eared elf says, in sirihish,
"... One, Lord Templar?"
With a sly grin, the lissome, blue-robed Templar says, in sirihish,
"Very well! One gaj it shall be!"
Quote from: Saellyn on September 15, 2014, 05:45:01 PM
Quote from: Molten Heart on September 15, 2014, 05:42:30 PM
Instead of jail, temporary or permanent exile could be an interesting punishment, especially in settlements that don't use jails as a part of their crime code.
Yeah but that's a whole nother punishment of the player that actually is extremely dangerous and kind of mean. Exile is an extreme thing.
This is Zalanthas.
But seriously, it's not as dangerous or as mean as death.
I'm a little surprised nobody has mentioned NPC zealousness yet.
I realise that elf pickpocket is the spawn of satan and should be eradicated ASAP, but the crimcode as it is now is ridulously binary. Either you're a total bro and the soldiers are completely chill with everything you do, or you are public enemy number 1 and the entire city's resources will be devoted to your death.
Since we're all nerds here, I propose we move on from Oblivion to Skyrim. Rather than being hunted down relentlessly or left alone entirely, I propose there is a third stage of crimcode: guilty but not worth a chase sequence. If you beheaded a man in the streets or tried to grab a merchant's coinpurse in the Red's.. Yeah, I can see why a soldier or two would want a word with you. But shit like petty theft or crimes committed in seedier areas would end up with a 'not right now' kind of response. I'm not saying that PC's should be ignored if such things happened, but I do think there should be some avenue for lenience. Rather than the endless chasing down you get now, there'd only be a response from soldiers in the same room, and even then after a ten-second interval.
"Wait.. I know you."
Punishments are a whole other issue, but I don't think those are as bad as the fact that right now the crime response rate is the same for every crime committed.
Gradiations in guard response would be great.
I'll also suggest that city guards be armed with batons and quarterstaves, and have Mercy On, so that criminals have a greater chance of surviving encounters with them.
I also think PC Soldier crimcoding is worth reviewing. What if soldiers were immune to crimcode (Could attack with impunity), but wouldn't mark their targets for destruction from the rest of the military? This can link back to the earlier suggestion of PC officers being able to incrimidate/pardon, since some mechanism would have to remain to flag REAL dangers, like the subguild_movement_Sorcerer strutting down the street.
Oh, and exile for Luir's/RSV would be great, if only because any old douche can go ruin the day of people who don't have nosave combat turned on.
All of these more elaborate ideas are cool for sure, but they'll require a lot of work to build out. I think some minor adjustments could go a long way until more detailed changes could be made. For instance:
When you commit a crime you get crim-flagged and dragged off to jail like usual, but while in your cell there's an NPC guardsman that you can pay/bribe to let you out immediately depending on the severity of your crime.
Nice extra features would be having the haggle skill affect the price to get out, with other possible modifiers being your citizenship, race and past criminal record. It would be super cool if Templars have the power to wipe out someone's past criminal record...especially if the price goes way up with each repeated offense.
If there was a "grand accuser" NPC with a judge-like role who npc guards brought criminals to and who would briefly, and with some personality of course, dole out a sentence and then leave an automatically generated in game board post with the sdesc and crime(s) committed (or duration of crim flagging) then templars and soldiers could close the loop on a lot of stuff. torture or forced labor would be great new activities for crims and may even allow for more interaction and longer sentences. I recommend sending them to a slave/work mine/camp.
Quote from: Reiloth on September 15, 2014, 01:06:06 PM
Quote from: QuillDipper on September 15, 2014, 01:00:49 PM
I feel like adding something akin to the rumor board to the cells would be helpful, that automatically lists sdesc and crime of arrested people. Probably harder to code than I'm aware, but could be nice.
It might be cool if there were one outside of the cells (for Templars, with descriptions of criminals). In this way, the board is cleared every so often, and descriptions are expunged -- The Jailer can't remember everyone, after all, especially given time.
sweet, someone else posted the exact idea above.. what I get for posting wihout reading all prior posts but yeah, this seems like a very doable solution potentially.
Quote from: Desertman on September 15, 2014, 11:57:01 AM
Quote from: Nyr on September 15, 2014, 11:36:34 AM
Quote from: Desertman on September 15, 2014, 11:03:01 AM
I like the idea of jail being the "go to" punishment and any creative punishments being handed down by PC Templars who are notified you have gotten thrown in the slammer. I think that is our current system?
I don't mind your punishment being a good solid beat-down by the militia, so long as the militia doing it are PC's. Also, kind of our current system.
You're correct. Our current system is to provide one punishment from NPCs and the virtual world, unanimated and unassisted by PCs, and another punishment from PCs and the virtual world, animated and assisted by PCs or staff. That seems like it could be improved upon.
I like the idea of social shaming/marking as a punishment. That seems VERY Zalanthan.
What if when you get thrown into the Allanaki jails, the reason for your arrest is taken into consideration and you are marked/branded with such?
Theft? - Right Shoulder - A crudely healed broken-coin brand scar. - The flesh here has been crudely burned and allowed to heal in an uneven scar faintly resembling the shape of an obsidian coin broken in half. It is about the size of the average human thumb.
Assault? - Right Shoulder - A crudely healed closed-fist brand scar. - The flesh here has been crudely burned and allowed to heal in uneven scar faintly resembling the shape of a closed fist. It is about the size of the average human thumb.
Murder? - Right Shoulder - A crudely healed broken-dagger brand scar. - The flesh here has been crudely burned and allowed to heal in an uneven scar faintly resembling the shape of a small dagger, its blade broken in half. It is about the size of the average human thumb.
You get where I am going with this. These are just examples. Also, multiple arrests might result in multiple brands?
Right Shoulder - A pair of crudely healed broken-coin brand scars.
Right Shoulder- A few crudely healed broken-coin brand scars.
Right Shoulder - A crudely healed broken-coin brand scar and a crudely healed closed-fist brand scar.
Right Shoulder - A series of crudely healed brand scars. This one would work in a format similar to our tattoo artists in town now I would imagine and would be updated with every new arrest. Something like this:
A series of crudely healed brand scars mark the flesh of the victim here. Each consists of puffy unevenly healed flesh about the size of the average human thumb and depicts the following; Several crudely healed broken-coin brand scars. A pair of crudely healed broken-dagger brand scars. Many crudely healed closed-fist brand scars.
This would all take some coding of course. But, I think it is a neat idea. It seems very Zalanthan to me. I can even see Rinthers/criminal types considering the brands a right of passage/indicative of true "street cred" among the gangs.
Instead of there being an OOC list of criminals that the militia/templarate could check. Now there is an IC list they can check....right on the criminals.
I like this idea. In Allanak, unless it involves murderizing important people, I think most crime should be seen as a nuisance more than anything. If you want special treatment (i.e. you want the fact your fancy thingamajig was stolen from your pack investigated) you'll have to pay your bribes to the officers/Templars just like everybody else. Of course some of the NPCs pay their bribes as well so crimes against NPCs shouldn't go unpunished but instead of time in jail caught criminals get dragged to the cells, coins/weapons 'confiscated' and receive a beating and branding before being dumped back out into the city again! Too many beatings without enough time to heal in between could permanently lower a random attribute but there is no pointless time idling in a cell any more. An alert to online Templars that 'so and so' was brought in to receive a beating is sent out by the jailer so if the Templar wants to interact with the criminal they can delay the release. I don't think there is any need for a recording of NPC justice to be made other than the scar(s).
As for slavery/obsidian mines this would likely end up simply storing the criminal (re: current policy on slaves). While having the obsidian mines as a prison would be cool it would also be another iso role and no one wants to further segregate the online population!
P.S. Instead of a brand the scar should be inflicted by The Hammerer: a Dwarf of course!
For minor crimes my first idea would be to move the jails closer to the criminals. To avoid the isolation of the PC and to increase shame, set up a series of stocks in central locations. PCs caught breaking the law for stealing or other similar crimes would be thrown into the stocks instead of the jail. All the other PCs passing by could see and interact with them. You could even have NPCs tossing crap at them. Templars, Militia or Legion could beat on them while they are in the stocks
More serious crimes could end up with a stint in jail and then a branding as described above. Or there could be an NPC Templar that automatically deals out a punishment as soon as someone is tossed into the stocks. Whipping or whipping and branding. The crim flag could have a value associated with it, depending on the type of crime committed, and then modifiers based on the victims social class, as well as the criminals social class and number of previous offenses. The greater the end number the greater the punishment. The whipping could permanently affect stats.
Of course, there are already sanctioned forms of murder. A sloppy Tuluki artist who gets caught in a contracted murder should be punished, yet should not receive the same punishment as unsanctioned murderer. The punishment for unsanctioned murder should be dealt out based on the class of the person killed, and vary from branding as described above and/or a fine to public execution on a gallows or in a gibbet. The PC gets thrown into one of these either by another PC or an NPC, and the is an automatic hp reduction over the course of 30 rl minuets or so, until the PC dies.
Of course, there are consent issues around all of these ideas, so they may not be good ones.
Some suggestions on crime code and jails.
Once you commit a crime, and are jailed for it, and released thereafter, lets say you continue to have a flag on your PC - like the Plague - which lasts for a few days RL.
Lets call this flag - Watched or Probation - for now.
Suggestion 1:
While your Watched flag is still on - you cannot enter through the Main Gate. You are forced to enter through Merchant's Gate and pay water tax.
Same goes for Tuluk - cannot enter through Plains Gate and must enter through the Scaien and pay water tax.
Suggestion 2:
ICLY your name has been circulated to the authorities who have in turn "dropped" your name to others.
So, you end up paying 10% more for items you buy and you are offered 10% less for items you are selling, in shops in that City - until the flag wears off.
Suggestion 3:
Like Spice addiction, the Watched flag will last longer every successive time you are jailed.
So, the first time you're incarcerated, your flag lasts for lets say 6 hours RL.
The next time you're jailed, it lasts for 10 hours RL.
So on and so forth.
Suggestion 4:
While you have a Watched flag on - NPC guards will not permit you into building complexes (too harsh? - something to consider), nor permit you to rent an apartment.
Suggestion 5:
Office of Mines and Jal Salt House will not buy any goods from you till the flag wears off.
(I'm not sure if Tuluk has comparable shopkeepers, but I'm sure something could be worked out.)
Suggestion 6:
Nenyuk will cut off access to your bank account while you have a Watched flag.
The fat clerk tells you in Sirihish, 'We've been advised to block your funds until things are cleared up, come back later."
Just some thoughts off the top of my head - to make it so a player actually has some IC repercussions to deal with in-game, as a result of their criminal activities, instead of just spending the 20 odd minutes in jail while being AFK, and then swinging right back into the game as if nothing's happened.
Just want to chime in (all these suggestions are great) that whatever happens with it, it'd be super nice tif there be some randomness / arbitrariness involved, because
1. this seems reasonable granted corruption
2. it'll prevent people from gaming the system too easily
3. and part of the fun of being a newbie sneak is the UNKNOWN of what might happen when you get caught
I also want to say that jailtime has resulted in being visited by templars in the past (and so RP opportunities) which I really enjoyed... the fact that a PC templar (or maybe they were staff animated?) might pop in does turn the jailtime into less of a Scot free situation and makes it more scary.
Quote from: Incognito on September 16, 2014, 12:03:27 PM
Suggestion 1:
While your Watched flag is still on - you cannot enter through the Main Gate. You are forced to enter through Merchant's Gate and pay water tax.
Same goes for Tuluk - cannot enter through Plains Gate and must enter through the Scaien and pay water tax.
Maybe restrict travel when leaving the gates because if things start getting rough it'd make sense that one would want to leave the city until the heat was off (go to Red Storm or Luir's or somewhere else). Maybe the powers that be would want to keep an eye on criminals or at least until a templar can make a judgement call on their situation. This might drive criminals to the Labyrinth.
I wonder if we started from the question of "What would a totally PC-run law enforcement system look like?" and then worked backward to what could be coded and how PCs would be involved, what that would look like.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 16, 2014, 12:35:54 PM
I wonder if we started from the question of "What would a totally PC-run law enforcement system look like?" and then worked backward to what could be coded and how PCs would be involved, what that would look like.
Unworkable, unless there were about 4 times as many PC soldiers and twice as many PC templars.
Quote from: BadSkeelz on September 16, 2014, 12:37:19 PM
Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 16, 2014, 12:35:54 PM
I wonder if we started from the question of "What would a totally PC-run law enforcement system look like?" and then worked backward to what could be coded and how PCs would be involved, what that would look like.
Unworkable, unless there were about 4 times as many PC soldiers and twice as many PC templars.
You missed my point. Start there, work backward to what would be coded in, including NPCs. What would it look like if every part of it was animated by player intelligence? What if PCs could jump in to any part of it and take over, but at times when there weren't PCs available, the system would run itself? Instead of going from code -> PCs, go PCs -> code.
My point still stands that it wouldd be a waste of time brain-storming because we don't have the player resources to run it. Even if we do come up with a fully-PC criminal system, you'll still have the problem you have now: that the limited number of Templars and soldier-PCs, who typically all play in the same general time period because they're recruiting each other, leave large gaps of time where there is no PC representation in the criminal system.
A lot of the ideas floated here are trying to address the issue of how you making being caught fun when there is no PC-Templar or soldier around to interact with.
As it stands now, PCs can already jump in to the Criminal System at any point, IF they're around and IF the system doesn't get the criminal killed before PCs can intervene.
I like the way you think Gimf. A system designed to prioritize PCs but then let the code fill in the gaps. A system like that should allow (but not require) law enforcement PCs to participate in all aspects of law enforcement and the crimcode, doing things like arresting criminals and inspecting travelers as they enter the city (at least in Allanak, why they they don't do something like this in Tuluk seems strange.)
I'm also disappointed that no one has yet suggested:
"why don't we move the jails closer to the criminals?"
Quote from: Norcal on September 16, 2014, 07:40:38 AM
For minor crimes my first idea would be to move the jails closer to the criminals.
I thought that's what this was.
Yes, I agree with Gimf.
The crime-code system as it stands is too binary and black and white -- Whenever a PC in law enforcement gets involved, it suddenly becomes more Zalanthan. There is room for corruption, betrayal, and bribery.
Keeping this in mind -- I think the system should be much more soft when PCs are not around. As Badskeelz suggested, give them billy-clubs and beat you into unconsciousness. Give Templars commands to say 'Mercy Off', and the soldiers draw their blades.
Providing things like softer jail sentences, but giving the sdesc of the perpetrator to Templar PCs to follow up on, is exactly the kind of solution I am looking for, personally. It creates more conflict and plots, rather than sitting in a time-out for upwards of a few hours IRL. Not to mention the length of 'wanted' status after committing even a simple petty theft.
Crimes short of murder should involve being tossed in jail for an hour, or allow the PC to bribe their way out to the NPC -- But despite all of this, give their description to the PC authorities and let them decide how far to pursue it.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on September 16, 2014, 01:25:26 PM
Quote from: Norcal on September 16, 2014, 07:40:38 AM
For minor crimes my first idea would be to move the jails closer to the criminals.
I thought that's what this was.
aw yisssss
Quote from: Molten Heart on September 16, 2014, 01:07:05 PM
I like the way you think Gimf. A system designed to prioritize PCs but then let the code fill in the gaps. A system like that should allow (but not require) law enforcement PCs to participate in all aspects of law enforcement and the crimcode
You guys get me. <3
What we have right now is a system that starts with code and shoehorns PCs in. Adding more code without understanding our purpose and structure, IMO, won't help.
I mean this from the perspective of the criminal, too. Both sides should be having fun.
I think someone actually did suggest that in this thread...
Quote from: Norcal on September 16, 2014, 07:40:38 AM
For minor crimes my first idea would be to move the jails closer to the criminals. To avoid the isolation of the PC and to increase shame, set up a series of stocks in central locations.
Oh hey look at that! I found it.
Quote from: Nyr on September 16, 2014, 01:23:10 PM
I'm also disappointed that no one has yet suggested:
"why don't we move the jails closer to the criminals?"
Sarcasm?
QuoteI think someone actually did suggest that in this thread...
Quote from: Norcal on September 16, 2014, 03:40:38 AM
For minor crimes my first idea would be to move the jails closer to the criminals. To avoid the isolation of the PC and to increase shame, set up a series of stocks in central locations.
Oh hey look at that! I found it
It actually looks better in bold. I still think it's sounds fun.
Public Stockades sound cruel. I like it.
I wonder if the Hit code could be adapted for the throwing of refuse at stockaded characters?
Quote from: BadSkeelz on September 17, 2014, 01:00:25 PM
I wonder if the Hit code could be adapted for the throwing of refuse at stockaded characters?
You could just throw fruits and fecal matter at them regardless without instigating crime code.
Stockades could be NPCs that have amazing subdue and cannot be broken (disable flee on the people who are stockaded).
Quote from: BadSkeelz on September 17, 2014, 01:00:25 PM
I wonder if the Hit code could be adapted for the throwing of refuse at stockaded characters?
Park the rotten petoch girl nearby and let people buy fruit to throw (can just use the give command and then it's fun roleplay for both, plus the criminal gets a bunch of free nasty food they can huddle up around and cry-eat later).
Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 17, 2014, 01:03:21 PM
Quote from: BadSkeelz on September 17, 2014, 01:00:25 PM
I wonder if the Hit code could be adapted for the throwing of refuse at stockaded characters?
Park the rotten petoch girl nearby and let people buy fruit to throw (can just use the give command and then it's fun roleplay for both, plus the criminal gets a bunch of free nasty food they can huddle up around and cry-eat later).
I'm pretty sure you can wield it and throw it at them, too.
Quote from: Reiloth on September 17, 2014, 01:05:33 PM
Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 17, 2014, 01:03:21 PM
Quote from: BadSkeelz on September 17, 2014, 01:00:25 PM
I wonder if the Hit code could be adapted for the throwing of refuse at stockaded characters?
Park the rotten petoch girl nearby and let people buy fruit to throw (can just use the give command and then it's fun roleplay for both, plus the criminal gets a bunch of free nasty food they can huddle up around and cry-eat later).
I'm pretty sure you can wield it and throw it at them, too.
You can if they're not in the same room. Otherwise I think it would initiate combat and then crimcode.
A work around to that might be to make the stockade a room within the room, that everyone can look in to and watch. Sort of like the animal cages, or sparring ring rooms that were set up before the HRPT for those who were there.
Quote from: Reiloth on September 17, 2014, 01:05:33 PM
I'm pretty sure you can wield it and throw it at them, too.
A long line of stockades is here, holding people who ill-advisedly used the 'throw' command.;)
Yeah, I'd want to test it, though, because I honestly don't remember. Like, I feel like during one of the many riots I've instigated/been the honored guest at, someone got crim-coded for throwing when they shouldn't have.
I'm like 95% positive you can throw non-weapons at people and not get crim-flagged.
Quote from: Molten Heart on September 16, 2014, 12:35:04 PM
Quote from: Incognito on September 16, 2014, 12:03:27 PM
Suggestion 1:
While your Watched flag is still on - you cannot enter through the Main Gate. You are forced to enter through Merchant's Gate and pay water tax.
Same goes for Tuluk - cannot enter through Plains Gate and must enter through the Scaien and pay water tax.
Maybe restrict travel when leaving the gates because if things start getting rough it'd make sense that one would want to leave the city until the heat was off (go to Red Storm or Luir's or somewhere else). Maybe the powers that be would want to keep an eye on criminals or at least until a templar can make a judgement call on their situation. This might drive criminals to the Labyrinth.
THIS!!
Quote from: Nyr on September 16, 2014, 01:23:10 PM
I'm also disappointed that no one has yet suggested:
"why don't we move the jails closer to the criminals?"
Norcal did!
Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 17, 2014, 01:03:21 PM
Quote from: BadSkeelz on September 17, 2014, 01:00:25 PM
I wonder if the Hit code could be adapted for the throwing of refuse at stockaded characters?
Park the rotten petoch girl nearby and let people buy fruit to throw (can just use the give command and then it's fun roleplay for both, plus the criminal gets a bunch of free nasty food they can huddle up around and cry-eat later).
Ewwww, rotten petoch smells so bad...
which makes it a perfect implement to hurl at people!
I can't imagine throwing food at someone in Allanak would really be a "thing". Even the worst quality food is food when you have people literally starving to death in the streets every single day all day.
I like the stockade or public cage idea though. I would want it to be PC initiated and not an NPC auto-punishment however.
Hah, that's a good point.
Rotten petoch is like a feast to some people in Nak.
Quote from: Reiloth on September 18, 2014, 02:41:31 PM
Hah, that's a good point.
Rotten petoch is like a feast to some people in Nak.
That's what makes it so great. Imagine nobles getting their tee-hees by throwing things at prisoners in the stocks...or making their minions throw gross things. It's very Marie Antoinette.
Poop is free.
But poop has value now!
That is what makes poop glorious in ArmageddonMUD.
You can shit sid.
Quote from: BadSkeelz on September 17, 2014, 01:11:15 PM
A work around to that might be to make the stockade a room within the room, that everyone can look in to and watch. Sort of like the animal cages, or sparring ring rooms that were set up before the HRPT for those who were there.
That's how I was thinking, especially for the gibbets or gallows.
Love the stockade idea. That's gold.
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on September 21, 2014, 08:59:21 AM
Love the stockade idea. That's gold.
Yeah, I really like the idea of criminal punishment being public in Allanak.
It rides along well with how public executions are done.
Keeping your prisoners hidden away in secret. That just sounds too.... Tuluki.
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on September 21, 2014, 08:59:21 AM
Love the stockade idea. That's gold.
Yes, it is golden. Let's bribe someone with a 12 pack of beer. Maybe even 24.
Quote from: Reiloth on September 21, 2014, 01:43:19 PM
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on September 21, 2014, 08:59:21 AM
Love the stockade idea. That's gold.
Yes, it is golden. Let's bribe someone with a 12 pack of beer. Maybe even 24.
I reckon they would do it for a couple pints.
Are the four poles in Allanak something that has code attached to them for holding a character in place? If so maybe that can just be copied and reskinned. (I am probably way wrong here)
I believe it works like subdue code. Seems to break if the person being held is attacked.
Quote from: Harmless on September 24, 2014, 03:58:57 AM
Are the four poles in Allanak something that has code attached to them for holding a character in place? If so maybe that can just be copied and reskinned. (I am probably way wrong here)
I think it'd be pretty public knowledge that that thing is what Allanak uses to execute people publically.
It does not codedly hold you in any way. However, if someone emotes strapping you into it (a Templar), you are required to not flee/walk away, even if you are being killed, until whoever has strapped you in emotes unstrapping you.
I would personally prefer if it codedly held you and gave you a small chance to wiggle out/get away in some fashion based on your flee/agility/sleight-of-hand etc...
I'm pretty sure it has code to hold you.
My mistake. I know at one point it didn't. Sounds like a good change.
Quote from: Desertman on September 25, 2014, 10:14:22 AM
My mistake. I know at one point it didn't. Sounds like a good change.
It always has.
Quote from: Nyr on September 25, 2014, 10:15:38 AM
Quote from: Desertman on September 25, 2014, 10:14:22 AM
My mistake. I know at one point it didn't. Sounds like a good change.
It always has.
Huh. Very interesting. I assumed it did, and fled from it once wondering if I could escape...I did...but was informed I shouldn't have. I just always assumed it didn't actually hold you since you weren't supposed to try and get away from it. I just assumed it was a, "You are held, even if it isn't codedly held, so....just sit there.".
Quote from: Desertman on September 25, 2014, 10:41:43 AM
Quote from: Nyr on September 25, 2014, 10:15:38 AM
Quote from: Desertman on September 25, 2014, 10:14:22 AM
My mistake. I know at one point it didn't. Sounds like a good change.
It always has.
Huh. Very interesting. I assumed it did, and fled from it once wondering if I could escape...I did...but was informed I shouldn't have. I just always assumed it didn't actually hold you since you weren't supposed to try and get away from it. I just assumed it was a, "You are held, even if it isn't codedly held, so....just sit there.".
I'd recommend reviewing that incident because you may be misremembering what occurred and why it was problematic.
Quote from: Nyr on September 25, 2014, 11:07:05 AM
Quote from: Desertman on September 25, 2014, 10:41:43 AM
Quote from: Nyr on September 25, 2014, 10:15:38 AM
Quote from: Desertman on September 25, 2014, 10:14:22 AM
My mistake. I know at one point it didn't. Sounds like a good change.
It always has.
Huh. Very interesting. I assumed it did, and fled from it once wondering if I could escape...I did...but was informed I shouldn't have. I just always assumed it didn't actually hold you since you weren't supposed to try and get away from it. I just assumed it was a, "You are held, even if it isn't codedly held, so....just sit there.".
I'd recommend reviewing that incident because you may be misremembering what occurred and why it was problematic.
No, I know why it was problematic after the fact. That isn't what I'm saying.
I just always assumed since I was able to get away that I was never codedly held by the thing, which is why I said above, "I know it doesn't hold you." (which is apparently incorrect). As for that incident, I fled fully expecting to be told I wouldn't be able to move..(while simultaneously hoping there was an escape artist code chance in place or something)..and then much to my surprise I did heh.
When a Templar asks if you need a hug...
Quote from: Desertman on September 25, 2014, 11:24:33 AM
Quote from: Nyr on September 25, 2014, 11:07:05 AM
Quote from: Desertman on September 25, 2014, 10:41:43 AM
Quote from: Nyr on September 25, 2014, 10:15:38 AM
Quote from: Desertman on September 25, 2014, 10:14:22 AM
My mistake. I know at one point it didn't. Sounds like a good change.
It always has.
Huh. Very interesting. I assumed it did, and fled from it once wondering if I could escape...I did...but was informed I shouldn't have. I just always assumed it didn't actually hold you since you weren't supposed to try and get away from it. I just assumed it was a, "You are held, even if it isn't codedly held, so....just sit there.".
I'd recommend reviewing that incident because you may be misremembering what occurred and why it was problematic.
No, I know why it was problematic after the fact. That isn't what I'm saying.
I just always assumed since I was able to get away that I was never codedly held by the thing, which is why I said above, "I know it doesn't hold you." (which is apparently incorrect). As for that incident, I fled fully expecting to be told I wouldn't be able to move..(while simultaneously hoping there was an escape artist code chance in place or something)..and then much to my surprise I did heh.
It does hold you.
If someone lets you off of it, you're not held anymore.
That's a cool piece of code, thanks.