Hello, Armers.
I keep seeing vague and not-so-vague references on the forums of characters with extremely high stats across the board. As a veteran
player with a long list of characters under my belt, I recently realized that I have never had such an experience. I'm not overly worried
about the issue, since it does not hamper my play in the slightest, but I am wondering something...
...how much of this is fiction? Are players really somehow randomly rolling up a pc with one or two AI stats? Is there some factor in
character creation that makes this more likely?
It's random, I have had a character or two with AI stuff, but it pissed me off that they died quickly. AI doesn't keep you alive trust me.
Age has a big impact. If you need someone young, quick and strong, pick a median age.
EDIT: As someone who plays humans a lot, the most I've seen is "extremely good" on three stats once. Other times It's usually "extremely good, good, good, average" based on priority.
I'm not really sure what a median age is.
Quote from: Intrepid on October 26, 2011, 04:06:10 PM
I'm not really sure what a median age is.
For human according to this:
http://www.armageddon.org/cgi-bin/help_index/show_help?age
The median age of all humans on Zalanthas, assuming they all die at 68 would be 68/2 = 34. I've usually gone for between 25-30 and the stats weren't bad. Remember at 34 you're getting older and stats will be penalized slowly over time.
Really?
Medium age is exactly what it says.
Something in the middle of the age range, but keep in mind, that middle is not what is allowed in chargen, if you go to middle allowed in chargen then you will be young.
You need to look up the ages for races in the docs.
Also, classes may or may not have an effect on key stats. (staff official stance last time I checked.)
As to good stat records, In 20 years I've had 40 or so PCs, Thats 6 AI on 5PCs, and I really cannot count the exceptionals.
At least 7 PCs with at least 2 exceptionals and nothing below good. Though I still consider the best stats on a certain ranger who had 4 goods. I've had 1 PC with what I consider to be horrible stats, two poors and nothing over above ave and 4 with marginal, IE 1 poor and nothing above good. And a Breed, and it does not matter what stats he had, Breeds Suck.
I've had one AI stat in my year and seven months of play. He had decent other stats (except one).
Ahh, I see. In retrospect, it didn't occur to me that the term "median" was that literal; I thought you guys were being relative and
vague based on perspective.
I've never made a pc as old as 30 in human and equivalent age terms, so if age does play a part, that could have something to do with
it.
If so, that is a neat aspect of the code.
3-4 years of play, my first AI was recently. My longest lived PC had the worst stats of all the PCs I've had.
I only get amazing stats with my merchant/aide characters who don't need awesome stats.
All my warriors/rangers/assassins get crappy ass stats.
That's ginka's law, son.
I had a character years ago that got all AI stats on a reroll. I asked the staff if it was bugged, they looked into it and said everything was working fine and I won the roll of the dice.
I haven't seen anything higher than "exceptional" since stat aging went in.
I've never had AI stats. But I've had a good number of characters with more than one exceptional stat. All has to do with random rolls modified by age I think.
Out of 70ish PCs, I've had one AI/exceptional (agility and wisdom on a city-elf pickpocket...amazing) and a couple of exceptional/exceptionals (agility and endurance on a half-elf ranger, and strength and agility on a city-elf assassin). None of those lived beyond 8-10 days, but yeah, they started rocking ass very quickly.
There appears to be a formula for increasing your odds of getting good stats, but I'm not going to post any speculation about it. Once you've rolled enough PCs (if you pay attention) you'll start noticing certain trends, and when you piece those trends together with available documentation, you can form a reasonable guess as to what the underlying components are for the stat roll. However, rolling multiple exceptional+ stats is obviously highly dependent on good luck, as well...I think my exceptional/exceptional city-elf assassin was actually minimum age, or close to it, before stat prioritization.
Since prioritization went in, I haven't gotten worse than "average" on my #1 priority stat (and that was on a 16-y.o. human, so theoretically at least, it would've eventually gone up). If you toss out all the PCs I accidentally rolled at "young" age, I haven't gotten worse than "good" on a #1 priority or an "above average" on a #2 priority, which seems more than fair, to be honest.
(Although a long time ago an Imm joked about moving "average" to read "good" to appease the masses.)
I've had about 20 or so characters over six or seven years, never had an AI, or a character with more than one exceptional. I guess i'd consider anything with all stats average or higher to be decent, race dependant. Only ever had one character that was the pits because of stats, poor strength delf ranger.
Characters with good stats will, on average, trump characters with good skills with similar playtimes.
I had a human ranger once, min age human who rolled AI on wisdom and agility ... but poor on strength and endurance. That's the only time I've rolled more than 1 AI on a character.
My best overall stats:
Your strength is extremely good, your agility is extremely good,
your wisdom is extremely good, and your endurance is good.
C-elf warrior. The char learned VERY quickly and within a few days played was deadlier than most of my chars ever are. Nearly untouchable to tembo, for instance, which isn't something I normally experience (I know you badasses are used to it).
I don't think I've ever had an absolutely incredible ... well, naturally. I did have a merchant that required just one [censored] of [censored] and then he'd be at AI.
In my years of play and nearly a trillion characters, I've only had 3 AI rolls. A lot of exceptionals though so I guess that still makes it pretty sweet?
I've had the occasional Exceptional. However, I've never had a stat set that entirely above average or better.
I had a char with all exceptional...and he fuckin died, just like the others.
My best was a halfling ranger with:
Your strength is very good, your agility is exceptional,
your wisdom is extremely good, and your endurance is good.
My first was like...
Your strength is extremely good, your agility is very good,
your wisdom is extremely good, and your endurance is absolutely incredible.
That was nice :)
I once had a ranger who had every stat below average. He died to a gurth.
Think my BEST roll ever was three EGs and a poor wisdom. Wisdom I consider almost worthless except for the folks that need it. Three EG stats is like going to town and taking some names, but the rate of improvement was just -awful-.
At least, for some skills.
Every character I've had with AI stats had an extreme downfall in some other category. So much so, that they died off.
I've got an inkling that you can only get AI if all the proper criteria line up. In D&D, elves get a boost to Dex but a negative to Con. AI Agility = rolling an 18 + 2 (from being an elf)
This doesn't explain how Old Kank got all AI's though. I presume any more theorizing would be frowned upon.
My character Ranak had 3 exceptionals (strength/agility/endurance) which rocked. I've never again rolled stats close to that. Synthesis' post is right on -- I don't think any speculation on the matter, on the GDB no less, will be good for anyone, but you notice trends after a while that 'help', along with good old fashioned luck.
Never had an AI roll on any of my characters. Two exceptionals was the most I ever got.
My best was three exceptionals and a good. The only thing I did with that character was sit around. Sometimes I can't even remember what guild I rolled her up as. But I've never had an AI on anyone.
I've never had an AI roll or increase. Ever. And I've only ever had one exceptional stat.
Oh well. I mean. I keep them ... for other reasons ... yeah. I mean, RPing out poor strength is always fun.
In 160 characters I've had some fantastic stats.
I've never, no not once, seen AI. It's a myth.
In my 3 and a half years of play, consisting of roughly sixteen or so characters - I've only had AI stats twice - on two separate characters.
One of which I ended up storing due to boredom.
Yeah.
AI is only achievable through performance enhancing drugs... *nods*
One AI in 8ish years. What I love about that one was how I smoked it down to below average.
Had several. Overconfident with all. They all died within >2 < 10 hours.
In ten years I think I rolled one. And everything else sucked.
My first (real) PC was a dwarf burglar/guard with exceptional agility and extremely good strength. Joined House Tor and kicked everyone's ass (except for the quasi-inactive Senior Silver). But it quickly became apparent that my dwarf wasn't improving very quickly. The Tor noble at the time tried Teaching me parry so many times.
If only I had rolled that PC as a warrior. Or at least an assassin.
My longest lived character was a breed with all stats between very good and exceptional. Very awesome. Exceptional wisdom on a high wis race rocks.
Had back to back breeds with AI agility. The first had agility focused second, the second one had agility focused third, and still got AI.
Given points, adding them to stats directly always made so much more sense to me than a completely random roll.
Even if the points just represented a weighted spread of the roll.
In gambling, people talk about (or at least remember) winning and rarely (if ever) talk about their losses, even if they hardly ever win. I suspect stats are much the same way, resulting in great fanfare about the characters that had great stats and little to nothing about average/poor stats.
I had a Byn Sergeant with poor wisdom. He was awesome.
Quote from: Intrepid on October 26, 2011, 08:19:48 PM
I've had the occasional Exceptional. However, I've never had a stat set that entirely above average or better.
I've had a few. Me doing good is if I have two extremely goods. Although I have had a single absolutely incredible a couple of times over the years.
To be honest I have never really kept track of stats. I can't post my best stats ever, simply because I don't know them.
Quote from: janeshephard on October 28, 2011, 09:27:20 PMGiven points, adding them to stats directly always made so much more sense to me than a completely random roll.
I like my random rolling. Stats would introduce people trying to optimise the system. I think we have enough of that as is (thankfully not too much).
Probably my current character has the best overall statroll I've gotten. Gotten a few with pretty damn good rolls, too.
I've played a lot of chars who had 1 exceptional, and then maybe a good or very good and averagey other stats. Never gotten an AI.
If it makes you feel any better, I've been playing for about ten years and have never once had AI. I chalk it up to bad luck. Personally, I'm more or less happy with having "extremely good." I'm not sure what I'd do with AI even if I had it. More money, more problems.
AI is impossible with a lot of guilds, extremely common with others. Try rolling a young pickpocket, for instance. Stats appear to cap naturally at exceptional and you won't roll an AI without some inherent bonus which you can't get in very many ways. If you don't like to play a certain guild and have never rolled an AI, that's probably why. I've only noticed one combination that gives consisent AI in a certain stat, and it isn't even very good. Doesn't give you a huge advantage or anything. I don't think there's any secret stat-rolling knowledge that lets you mold your character into a badass killer more easily.
"Awesome" stats is what I'd call any set with two at e.good or higher and two that aren't below good. Usually some variation of exceptional/e.good/good/v.good. Anything more is too uncommon to hope for, and anything less is unimpressive.
There's a huge imbalance in how good it is to have a high value in one stat compared to another. High strength is worth so much more than high agility, for instance. If you can't train your skills constantly and on demand, high wisdom isn't all that. Anyone playing a combat-oriented character that doesn't run off to wildly murder NPCs every twenty minutes is better off emphasising strength, then endurance, then agility, and finally wisdom. If you can somehow spar many times a day, whenever you want and for as long as you like, high wisdom pays off up to a point, but then you eventually hit a wall where wisdom becomes completely worthless anyway because skillgains become so rare that the timer is entirely irrelevant. Strength is so much more effective than anything else and doesn't plateau or even out with higher skills, and high agility tends to just lower the point where your skills become nearly impossible to increase any further. Endurance is always useful.
Logic is usually true if you want to guide your character towards good stats. Max height and weight is so hugely common in warriors for a reason, but a small and lightweight person is more likely to be agile. Older people are typically wiser, young people weaker and less wise but more spry and healthy. A very young or very old character is unlikely to have stats suited for a combatant.
QuoteThere's a huge imbalance in how good it is to have a high value in one stat compared to another. High strength is worth so much more than high agility, for instance. If you can't train your skills constantly and on demand, high wisdom isn't all that. Anyone playing a combat-oriented character that doesn't run off to wildly murder NPCs every twenty minutes is better off emphasising strength, then endurance, then agility, and finally wisdom. If you can somehow spar many times a day, whenever you want and for as long as you like, high wisdom pays off up to a point, but then you eventually hit a wall where wisdom becomes completely worthless anyway because skillgains become so rare that the timer is entirely irrelevant. Strength is so much more effective than anything else and doesn't plateau or even out with higher skills, and high agility tends to just lower the point where your skills become nearly impossible to increase any further. Endurance is always useful.
I am going to have to say you are totally off the mark there my friend. Specially on the wisdom and agility. Oh sure, for a warrior, wisdom is not quite as important as agi and str, but having too low wisdom, even on a warrior can be rather crippling, Not that I can say why on the GDB, but it is. I can say, with low wisdom, some very important warrior skills are very hard to raise and nearly impossible to max, and if you aim for 50-100 day PCs like I and others do, that is silly important. And if you think wis only affects some timer...Heh.
As to Agility, Heh, High agility is useful, to EVERY class in the game, Unlike str or even endurance. Low Agility is crippling to many classes, If I ordered stats myself, agility is always before end...no matter the class.
Listen to X-D. I may disagree with his grasp on economics ... but the man wyns Armageddon code. He just wyns.
Quote from: musashi on November 08, 2011, 12:59:52 PM
Listen to X-D. The man wyns Armageddon code. He just wyns.
I am completely convinced high agility is the only reason 2 of my PC's lived so long..
High Strength is easier to see the immediate effects of. With weight that you carry. With your out of the box stump ranger that beats up some 30+ day warrior elf. an newish-HG wiping the floor against your old warrior. etc..
When you can 2 shot a kryl or a PC with arrows.. When you're hard to hit for an old warrior or that mob of gith, etc.. you'll thank you're agility.
And low wisdom I think for anyone is awful. I don't know and don't want to know.. But it's easy to see after a few long-lived PCs, it affects a LOT more than what ppl think it does. All the stats are important...
But I have to admit I'm on the fence about skills vs stats. I used to think that skills overran any stat over time but now I'm not so sure.
My most awesome stats ever were:
Your strength is good, your agility is good.
Your wisdom is good, your endurance is good.
First thing I did when in-character:
You feel good.
I so wanted to add:
Duh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh!
But I didn't. ;)
I don't mind getting low stats. I'll play a PC with low stats, in spite of them. What bugs me is prioritizing one stat first, above all else, and having that be my lowest stat - and remarkably so. Why do you tease me, not-so-random generator? Why? Alternatively, I don't think I've ever had a low agility PC, despite making very tall and very heavy, and older/younger PCs.
More than 100 pc's, my two best stat rolls over were.
Exeptional across the board.
Extremely good across the board.
My most entertaining pc's had shit stats though, funny how that works out.
I don't have any complains regarding my warrior who had exceptional strength, exceptional agility and poor wisdom 8)
Quote from: Celest on November 08, 2011, 05:22:18 PM
I don't mind getting low stats. I'll play a PC with low stats, in spite of them. What bugs me is prioritizing one stat first, above all else, and having that be my lowest stat - and remarkably so. Why do you tease me, not-so-random generator? Why? Alternatively, I don't think I've ever had a low agility PC, despite making very tall and very heavy, and older/younger PCs.
If this is happening, please mail me specifically which pc and account this happened to and I will investigate.
Edited to add:
I looked up your account and verified your claim on your latest pc. The issue is, as has been stated before, the age you chose to start your character. Being sub-adult can be a major factor in starting attributes, specifically around agility and strength. The truth of the matter is if the character lives long enough, you will see a shift that will bring your character more in line with your original priority.
Morgs is the man.
;D
Quote from: Morgenes on November 09, 2011, 08:49:04 AM
Quote from: Celest on November 08, 2011, 05:22:18 PM
I don't mind getting low stats. I'll play a PC with low stats, in spite of them. What bugs me is prioritizing one stat first, above all else, and having that be my lowest stat - and remarkably so. Why do you tease me, not-so-random generator? Why? Alternatively, I don't think I've ever had a low agility PC, despite making very tall and very heavy, and older/younger PCs.
If this is happening, please mail me specifically which pc and account this happened to and I will investigate.
Edited to add:
I looked up your account and verified your claim on your latest pc. The issue is, as has been stated before, the age you chose to start your character. Being sub-adult can be a major factor in starting attributes, specifically around agility and strength. The truth of the matter is if the character lives long enough, you will see a shift that will bring your character more in line with your original priority.
I figured that might be the case, thanks Morg :)
My character's stats aren't in sync with prioritization and he's past the young stage :<
They're also abysmal but that's beside the point.
Quote from: MeTekillot on November 09, 2011, 04:54:27 PM
My character's stats aren't in sync with prioritization and he's past the young stage :<
They're also abysmal but that's beside the point.
If you're curious as to why, mail me your account and character name and I'll investigate. Most likely it's due to starting age or guild choice and higher prioritizing stats that aren't benefited by those choices. Otherwise it may have been a close roll that just happened to diverge enough to give a difference after modifiers.
Edit:
Found you MeTekillot (I think). If I am right, your current character did the exact same thing. You chose an ordering that was heavily affected by the young age you started the character at. It has already aged multiple years and is increasing.
Is this confirmation that guild affects stats?
No.
MeTekillot's char is just horriblly unlucky I think.
MeTekillot's char says, in sirihish:
"I don't know, sarge... I'm not very tough, fast, strong or smart... but I'm really dedicated!"
Quote from: Jeshin on November 09, 2011, 09:18:06 PM
Is this confirmation that guild affects stats?
You can take from that what you will.
I've never rolled better than exceptional..but I've also only had a few PC's since stat priority came in.
Granted, I don't look past strength/agility on a stat roll..
Masha and Kija had stout stats. Come to think of it, my luck seems to be +1 when rolling an elf.
Quote from: Saellyn on November 09, 2011, 09:46:13 PM
No.
MeTekillot's char is just horriblly unlucky I think.
MeTekillot's char says, in sirihish:
"I don't know, sarge... I'm not very tough, fast, strong or smart... but I'm really dedicated!"
When I get my ass whomped by a 5-day warrior who has better strength than me:
I'll just practice and get better!!!
When I fight a dwarf and get my ass whomped because he can dodge all my attacks and I can't dodge his:
Eh he's a dwarf I'll just use a shield!!!
When I fight an elf and I break down because my endurance is worse than theirs:
I'll just use a bigger sword!
When a newbie has half my playtime but twice my skills because his wisdom is better than mine:
fuck this game seriously i hate everybody
"Your race, starting age and guild will affect your starting attribute levels."
I love helpfiles.
With attention to detail you can learn what affects what exactly.
The stats you end up with aren't quite random.
Let's say hypothetically I rerolled a new character. Not that I've done that.
Let's say they're an adult too. Let's say their health, movement and stun as shown were okay.
But the stats weren't all that great.
Once again, we're speaking completely hypothetically about this.
So you're still with me lets assume I reroll these less than great stats and get even worse stats.
But the health stamina stun numbers, as listed, actually improved even though the worded stats are inferior to the previously worded stats.
What exactly went on here?
Hypothetically. Because I definitely had no reason to reroll a new character.
Health, stamina, and stun have separate random factor rolls built in, and therefore are only mostly based on the underlying endurance stat.
E.g. if the difference between "above average" and "good" is an average of 5 health/8 stamina/5 stun, but the random factor has a mean and standard deviation of 3/5/3, it is entirely plausible that you could go from "above average" to "good" endurance, yet lose maximum health/stamina/stun.
Is it better to have the better WORDED stats or the better NUMBERED feedback?
We're still talking in the realm of fantasy here.
Quote from: Karieith on November 19, 2011, 10:47:49 AM
Is it better to have the better WORDED stats or the better NUMBERED feedback?
We're still talking in the realm of fantasy here.
If Armageddon works like D&D, I'm sure there are saves vs. magick and poison, and things like health/stamina/stun regen that are based on the number that the worded stat is based on, not the health/stamina/stun roll.
So, it depends.
Putting it in terms of D&D helps.
So I rolled a 3 on my d8 for my health even though my con is 14.
When I reroll my stats I have a con of 10 now, but I rolled an 8 on my d8.
The con of 14 is still better.
So the dice just hated me.
Hypothetically.
Thanks for the clarification.
Quote from: MeTekillot on November 10, 2011, 08:10:38 PM
Quote from: Saellyn on November 09, 2011, 09:46:13 PM
No.
MeTekillot's char is just horriblly unlucky I think.
MeTekillot's char says, in sirihish:
"I don't know, sarge... I'm not very tough, fast, strong or smart... but I'm really dedicated!"
When I get my ass whomped by a 5-day warrior who has better strength than me:
I'll just practice and get better!!!
When I fight a dwarf and get my ass whomped because he can dodge all my attacks and I can't dodge his:
Eh he's a dwarf I'll just use a shield!!!
When I fight an elf and I break down because my endurance is worse than theirs:
I'll just use a bigger sword!
When a newbie has half my playtime but twice my skills because his wisdom is better than mine:
fuck this game seriously i hate everybody
ah I love it.. so so true....
Quote from: Morgenes on November 09, 2011, 08:07:50 PM
Quote from: MeTekillot on November 09, 2011, 04:54:27 PM
My character's stats aren't in sync with prioritization and he's past the young stage :<
They're also abysmal but that's beside the point.
If you're curious as to why, mail me your account and character name and I'll investigate. Most likely it's due to starting age or guild choice and higher prioritizing stats that aren't benefited by those choices. Otherwise it may have been a close roll that just happened to diverge enough to give a difference after modifiers.
Edit:
Found you MeTekillot (I think). If I am right, your current character did the exact same thing. You chose an ordering that was heavily affected by the young age you started the character at. It has already aged multiple years and is increasing.
still can't effectively beat scrab in a fight though
If you can't beat them, join them.
A dark-shelled scrab pinches your head, doing grievious damage.
i'm on my way
Isn't it "inflicting a grievous wound"?
Addendum: That scrab rolled exceptional strength, absolutely incredible agility, very good wisdom and absolutely incredible endurance.
Quote from: evilcabbage on December 09, 2011, 05:33:41 PM
Isn't it "inflicting a grievous wound"?
Addendum: That scrab rolled exceptional strength, absolutely incredible agility, very good wisdom and absolutely incredible endurance.
Even my 50-day maxed-out warrior with extremely good agility would occasionally get slammed by a scrab headshot...usually when I was out trying to show some noob how badass I was. I swear noobs have a -10 defense modifier for a 1-room radius.
It's not just in combat. I can't count how many times I have repeatedly failed skill checks of all kinds despite the skills being max'd, while trying to show a newbie "how to do it".
After getting Exceptional intelligence on a half-elf and seeing the benefits I began trying to prioritize wisdom in the one or two spot. Oh my god.
One time I got extremely good for all stats on a human, but it was a character who could never take advantage of any of it without going against their background, so I never got a chance to see.
I prioritize as I see how the class needs it, If I'm a warrior, I won't prioritize wisdom unless I plan for the guy to become an officer...
Having said that, I've had a few PC's with some awesome stats, including one with 3 EG and one VG, he died fairly quickly if I remember....
I'd much rather see two VG's a A, and a G in my stats, but I've had some awesome fun with PC's with two poors.
what is wisdom even good for
Quote from: musashi on December 10, 2011, 08:25:07 AM
It's not just in combat. I can't count how many times I have repeatedly failed skill checks of all kinds despite the skills being max'd, while trying to show a newbie "how to do it".
You say to the newbie, in sihirish:
"Right. Just try to disarm me. I'll show you how to do a reversal."
You lead the newbie's disarm attempt and reverse it!
You try to disarm the newbie, but fumble and drop your own weapon instead!
Quote from: MeTekillot on December 10, 2011, 06:59:16 PM
Quote from: musashi on December 10, 2011, 08:25:07 AM
It's not just in combat. I can't count how many times I have repeatedly failed skill checks of all kinds despite the skills being max'd, while trying to show a newbie "how to do it".
You say to the newbie, in sihirish:
"Right. Just try to disarm me. I'll show you how to do a reversal."
You lead the newbie's disarm attempt and reverse it!
You try to disarm the newbie, but fumble and drop your own weapon instead!
Recovering gracefully, you say to the newbie, in sihirish:
"That is exactly how stupid you will look when I stop going easy on you."
Quote from: Wolfsong on December 10, 2011, 07:24:51 PM
Quote from: MeTekillot on December 10, 2011, 06:59:16 PM
Quote from: musashi on December 10, 2011, 08:25:07 AM
It's not just in combat. I can't count how many times I have repeatedly failed skill checks of all kinds despite the skills being max'd, while trying to show a newbie "how to do it".
You say to the newbie, in sihirish:
"Right. Just try to disarm me. I'll show you how to do a reversal."
You lead the newbie's disarm attempt and reverse it!
You try to disarm the newbie, but fumble and drop your own weapon instead!
Recovering gracefully, you say to the newbie, in sihirish:
"That is exactly how stupid you will look when I stop going easy on you."
+1
I once rolled a noble who had all stats except one as exceptional and the fourth one was extremely good. And about ... 2 minutes after chargen I had a staff tell me something like ,"We are in Awe of your stats."
Needless to say that was one role that did not need ... ANY of those stats, except maybe wisdom for barrier/contact.
Then again I am personally a strong believer of having all stats removed from the game and everyone made an 'average' statted person.
I'm starting to get a little annoyed with my own stats. Seems like everyone has amazing stats but me :|
Then again: I prefer good RP over awesome stats. And that's exactly what I'm getting :)
Quote from: Iiyola on December 22, 2011, 01:47:26 AM
I'm starting to get a little annoyed with my own stats. Seems like everyone has amazing stats but me :|
Then again: I prefer good RP over awesome stats. And that's exactly what I'm getting :)
Wait till you get good RP WITH awesome stats, that makes it even better ;)
Yeah well.... not planning to get my char killed any time soon if I can help it ;)
I had an AI agility on my very first PC, a 16 year old pickpocket / acrobat.
My best statted PC ever was my second PC... a 18 year old assassin. I think it was exceptional wisdom, extremely good agility, very good strength and good endurance. :o
Overall, I've been pretty lucky with stat rolls for some reason and consistently seem to get above average ones, sometimes WAY better than average.
After I played a delf ranger that I branched parry on in 4-5d, I've subscribed to the wisdom fanclub. Nearly maxing a weapon skill on a warrior at 14-16d is worth it to me. I'd prefer that over high strength, because it increases longevity imo.
If you think you need wisdom, you'd better get it... well, that's advice for me.
I once had an elf with above average wisdom and my survival at one point partly depended on my ability to learn a new accent. I didn't for a game month, although I spent the entire time listening to it and ended up dying to something else. Came into the game as a new character, and a RL week later, I heard of a crime perpetuated which was, according to its location and time, probably meant for my pc and they got bored and nailed someone else.
I once had a half-elf with exceptional wisdom and sat at a bar, listening to two people speaking in a different language. I was just sitting there, minding my own business because they were babbling nonsense into my ear. Almost a game hour later, the script became "bendune" or what have you that language, instead of "an unknown tongue." My brain exploded.
also, that first one had the bard subguild, which supposedly makes it easier to learn new languages.
To be fair, learning languages is random as fuck. One of my first PCs, a warrior/mercenary with poor wisdom, learned heshrak the first time a gith auto-yelled at him.
Quote from: Wolfsong on December 27, 2011, 04:37:55 AM
To be fair, learning languages is random as fuck. One of my first PCs, a warrior/mercenary with poor wisdom, learned heshrak the first time a gith auto-yelled at him.
you're kidding me!
nevermind then. wow.
Quote from: Cind on December 27, 2011, 05:26:43 AM
Quote from: Wolfsong on December 27, 2011, 04:37:55 AM
To be fair, learning languages is random as fuck. One of my first PCs, a warrior/mercenary with poor wisdom, learned heshrak the first time a gith auto-yelled at him.
you're kidding me!
nevermind then. wow.
Got it beat, not by statistic, but by coolness. Elven criminal eavesdropping on two templars in the old days picks up Tatlum. ;)
Quote from: Armaddict on December 27, 2011, 06:38:35 AM
Quote from: Cind on December 27, 2011, 05:26:43 AM
Quote from: Wolfsong on December 27, 2011, 04:37:55 AM
To be fair, learning languages is random as fuck. One of my first PCs, a warrior/mercenary with poor wisdom, learned heshrak the first time a gith auto-yelled at him.
you're kidding me!
nevermind then. wow.
Got it beat, not by statistic, but by coolness. Elven criminal eavesdropping on two templars in the old days picks up Tatlum. ;)
You win. :(
It's kinda weird out that works. I had one pc pick up Allundean, Mirrukim, Bendune, and Tatlum. Most of my others, have never picked up a second or third language.
I lose.
I once had an elf with AI wisdom and linguist subguild who never picked up another language despite being around for a good while.
Quote from: Spoon on December 28, 2011, 06:27:35 AM
I lose.
I once had an elf with AI wisdom and linguist subguild who never picked up another language despite being around for a good while.
That's very weird.
Quote from: Spoon on December 28, 2011, 06:27:35 AM
I lose.
I once had an elf with AI wisdom and linguist subguild who never picked up another language despite being around for a good while.
I'm pretty sure they changed the language-learning code at some point, to make it more difficult to learn languages, the more languages you already know...so starting out with three from linguist could make it more difficult to actually learn one in-game.
Learned Tatlum while sitting in the heart. One Faithful said good morning to another or something to that effect. Then the other replied... Bam tatlum!
Quote from: Synthesis on December 28, 2011, 09:43:35 AM
Quote from: Spoon on December 28, 2011, 06:27:35 AM
I lose.
I once had an elf with AI wisdom and linguist subguild who never picked up another language despite being around for a good while.
I'm pretty sure they changed the language-learning code at some point, to make it more difficult to learn languages, the more languages you already know...so starting out with three from linguist could make it more difficult to actually learn one in-game.
I don't think that's the case... though if it is, that's silly. The more languages you know, the easier it is to grasp the basics of others.
Actually, given the helpfiles, there should be different modifiers for each language.
If a language is related to another, and you know one of the two, should be easier to learn the other. Should be nearly impossible to learn the mantis language, as it is completely unrelated, etc.
That is how it should be, IMHO, but I am not sure it is. Having bard seems to help, but nothing else that I have seen so far.
Quote from: Twilight on December 28, 2011, 02:41:26 PM
Actually, given the helpfiles, there should be different modifiers for each language.
If a language is related to another, and you know one of the two, should be easier to learn the other. Should be nearly impossible to learn the mantis language, as it is completely unrelated, etc.
That is how it should be, IMHO, but I am not sure it is. Having bard seems to help, but nothing else that I have seen so far.
YES.
If you know bendune and sirihish, cavilish should be a total snap. Or if you know cavilish, bendune should come a bit easier. That always bugged me.
Even with crazy good wisdom; I still have other PCs zip past my character in skill and and combat proficiency. And then die and reroll a new character to do it again.
So I'm pretty much at a loss.
Your guild may or may not affect your skill progression in certain skills.
Quote from: Jingo on December 30, 2011, 06:21:05 PM
Even with crazy good wisdom; I still have other PCs zip past my character in skill and and combat proficiency. And then die and reroll a new character to do it again.
So I'm pretty much at a loss.
subguilds? (meaning guard, thug, mercenary, etc.) prioritizing strength? i heard like three people on the gdb say that strength has too much importance with coded fighting.
It's pretty easy to figure out how to train your PC if you just read the help files. All the info you need to skill is right there.
yeah guys all you need is some baseless direction with a vague explanation to surpass people who have a firm grip of knowledge on how to lean the code in their favor
I can't be sure, but I THINK I got two AI stats on one character once... Whatever I rolled, I remember it making my jaw drop. Of course, it seems like the characters with the good stats are always the ones to go quickest; this is most likely a result of getting too cocky.
Still, my best characters have always had terrible (average/below average) stats, so I don't really sweat stats in the first place.
Quote from: MeTekillot on December 30, 2011, 09:32:40 PM
yeah guys all you need is some baseless direction with a vague explanation to surpass people who have a firm grip of knowledge on how to lean the code in their favor
Regular practice is important; spam practice is pointless; challenge yourself.
Quote from: MeTekillot on December 30, 2011, 09:32:40 PM
yeah guys all you need is some baseless direction with a vague explanation to surpass people who have a firm grip of knowledge on how to lean the code in their favor
Bro, stop being a noob.
Noob question:
"How do I get better at a skill?"
QuoteOffense (Combat)
Offense is a universal ability which measures one's power to land blows
on opponents. It is a very basic statistic, and deals only with one's
specific knowledge of how to hit an enemy. The more times you miss, the
more your offense will increase, as with any other skill.
Everything in Armageddon with very few exceptions either works how you would think it would, i.e. makes sense within the context of the world, (Zalanthas, not Earth.) Or: can be easily found out through experimentation/study/reading of help files.
My forum namesake had the following:
Strength: Exceptional
Agility: Exceptional
Wisdom: Good
Endurance: Exceptional
Managed to get two PCs in a row with Exceptional Agility with the first roll.
I wish your account, where it has the description and bios of all your characters, it also kept your 'score' from when you died. Would be nice to see.
I've consistently gotten an exceptional or AI along with an extremely good or very good several times in a row, now. I'm just that lucky.
Yes, I said it, two AIs, some 15 characters to date. :P
Absolutely Inconceivable!
Quote from: Kismetic on March 24, 2012, 02:59:28 AM
Absolutely Inconceivable!
That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
I had a character with 3 poors and an AA. He kicked butt.
I can't honestly remember a character I've had that EVER had an AI stat.
:/ bad luck on my side
Quote from: shadeoux on March 24, 2012, 05:50:27 AM
I can't honestly remember a character I've had that EVER had an AI stat.
:/ bad luck on my side
I think I never had one either.
Quote from: shadeoux on March 24, 2012, 05:50:27 AM
I can't honestly remember a character I've had that EVER had an AI stat.
:/ bad luck on my side
In all of my years and nearly 70-80 or something characters.
I've only had 1 or 2 with AI for any stat.
So its not just you, its pretty rare.
My current stats are ridiculous. Three exceptionals and an extremely good. It's stupid awesome.
Quote from: AmandaGreathouse on March 26, 2012, 02:03:25 AM
My current stats are ridiculous. Three exceptionals and an extremely good. It's stupid awesome.
Dead in a week.
Just because of this post.
Low wisdom simply sucks. It takes FOREVER to learn something. Sure, I prefer RP over stats, but... it's just frustrating not to see that stat go up after a long, long time without trying to twink.
Wis = top priority with my next char, fo sho.
I always roll full-random, and always do a reroll. Usually leads to some fun results.
I always go random. I've lost track of my AI's
My current PCs stats would make many cry and I did not even check the reroll. ;D
Quote from: Iiyola on March 26, 2012, 03:25:13 AM
Low wisdom simply sucks. It takes FOREVER to learn something. Sure, I prefer RP over stats, but... it's just frustrating not to see that stat go up after a long, long time without trying to twink.
Wis = top priority with my next char, fo sho.
I did this and let the other stats just go random. I got lucky and they're all pretty decent but strength got the low end and is iffy. Since I'm in a combat role...uhh. It's annoying having to rearrange your EQ every time you get a new, much better but slightly heavier piece. That and having your blows deflected by sandcloth.... :(
I'm pretty sure I'm going to app a half giant next time around, let wisdom be damned.
Quote from: Reiteration on March 26, 2012, 03:27:19 AM
I always roll full-random, and always do a reroll. Usually leads to some fun results.
I do that, but sometimes, I undo the roll.
Best stats, to date (that I can remember) lasted me a good 2 and a half years.
Exceptional Strength, Very Good Agility,
Average Wisdom, and Absolutely Incredible Endurance
Prioritized each stat.
Best was:
Extremely good str, exceptional agility, extremely good wisdom, and very good endurance.
It was a halfling ranger, he was a little beast that died to a foolish OOC mistake.
Had a rinthi character that lasted about 5 hours tops:
Extremely Good Strength
Very Good Agility
Absolutely Incredible Wisdom
Absolutely Incredible Endurance
That was like the second time I full-randomed my stats, never prioritized stats ever again.
Quote from: Reiteration on March 31, 2012, 03:11:28 PM
Had a rinthi character that lasted about 5 hours tops:
Extremely Good Strength
Very Good Agility
Absolutely Incredible Wisdom
Absolutely Incredible Endurance
That was like the second time I full-randomed my stats, never prioritized stats ever again.
wow... just wow.....
Yeah, seems every NPC in the rinth knew about it to, or some staff member was trying to correct an error.
I once had three exceptionals and a very good. Not bad.
Wow. My next PC will be fully randomized as well!
::) lol
Ive had the exact opposite from randomizing. Usually ending up with something that just makes me cringe. It all seems to be luck of the draw really.
No, it is not.
I always go random, I nearly always get the thread title. In fact, Of 40 PCs, I think maybe 3 had not great stats, And only one of them was horrible. The Docs clearly state how to get good stats, And it works specially good in full random.
Though I have never gotten 2 AI on 1 PC, I have had more then 6 AI and a few of them included 2 exceptionals and an extremely good. I have also gotten 4 extremely goods on one PC and 4 very goods on 1 PC....Hell, on only half of my PCs have I even checked the reroll.
This thread is full of wrong information, I like it.
All randomizing does is automatically assign priority-- you can even see what priority it picks for you before you submit your app.
No magic bonuses there.
Quote from: Malken on April 01, 2012, 06:23:05 PM
This thread is full of wrong information, I like it.
sometimes i think X-D intentionally gives bad advice so he can keep on top of the best warrior game
I always put wisdom first unless I have an IC reason not to (like the character's an idiot).
I guess I'm a great big newb. :D
Quote from: BleakOne on April 01, 2012, 09:00:21 PM
I always put wisdom first unless I have an IC reason not to (like the character's an idiot).
I guess I'm a great big newb. :D
Me too Bleak - let's newb together! w00t!
This was my best set of stats overall, and my favorite circumstances.
reroll self
Your strength is now above average, your agility is now exceptional,
your wisdom is now extremely good, and your endurance is now extremely good.
Saving ---.
Someone says, out of character:
"Whoa, nice reroll."
Someone says, out of character:
"Just when you don't need it."
Other people can see you rerolls?
Staff can, yes.
Quotesometimes i think X-D intentionally gives bad advice so he can keep on top of the best warrior game
This is possible as well.
I still always get great stats though. :P
Yeahyeahyeah rub it in >:|
It simple to get an awesome score.
Make your character any race, guild, subguild, height, weight, age...
Get into game, and type when you are in the King's Hall 1000101010100101001010010100101000010101010
Then when you point anywhere, you get AI everything.
I think I had staff comment once on my stats, back when you had to wish up for a reroll. A warrior with poor strength and endurance.
I don't necessarily disagree with XD's comments, but you need to roll the character a particular way and expect certain stats. If you want good stats that deviate from what you would reasonably expect, you need to use prioritization.
I personally think it's time the stat system is touched up a little to lessen the level of randomization. This seems especially important now that characters can cost something to create. Random stat distribution isn't so bad, just to ensure some variation between characters, but I feel the stat total should remain relatively consistent outside of racial and age-related effects. Randomization has its place when it creates diversity, but not when it creates such inequality. If one character is to be considerably better code-wise than another, it should be because they've earned this through hard work and accomplishments, not luck of the dice. A variation of a few points isn't a big deal, but it's currently possible to make two otherwise identical characters of the same race, guild, age and size only to have one come out with twice the stat total of the other.
Good randomization:
Your strength is extremely good, your agility is above average,
your wisdom is poor, and your endurance is very good.
Your strength is very good, your agility is good,
your wisdom is below average, and your endurance is very good.
Your strength is exceptional, your agility is average,
your wisdom is poor, and your endurance is good.
Your strength is good, your agility is good,
your wisdom is above average, and your endurance is good.
Bad randomization:
Your strength is extremely good, your agility is very good,
your wisdom is very good, and your endurance is exceptional.
Your strength is good, your agility is below average,
your wisdom is poor, and your endurance is average.
Your strength is exceptional, your agility is very good,
your wisdom is above average, and your endurance is exceptional.
Your strength is average, your agility is good,
your wisdom is below average, and your endurance is average.
I don't see what service it does us to have a stat system like the latter, but it's what we've got. Back when there was no real way to make your warrior codedly unique, maybe there was a tiny bit of merit to the concept that they might come out with absurdly good stats. Now that extended subguilds can help specialize your character, I don't see the need.
People care a great deal about stats, which is why there's always an active thread about the subject. Since stats already have such an enormous influence on a character's coded power, I think the range of variation is too great. It encourages suicide, disappointment, and advantages that aren't earned. It causes a bit too much worry over stats for an RPI. It commonly makes characters too strong or too weak and has too much of an impact on coded results to be determined completely at random.
I do not think it is possible for you to have an accurate and up-to-date point of view for what prioritization, rerolling, undoing rerolls, and stats are actually like nowadays.
edit to add: if you haven't played in 5 years
QuoteRandomization has its place when it creates diversity, but not when it creates such inequality. If one character is to be considerably better code-wise than another, it should be because they've earned this through hard work and accomplishments, not luck of the dice
First to the bold part.
Why not? It is realistic, what any living thing gets is a roll of the dice, IE genetics, You have a large range of possible outcomes inside a certain race/species, specially with humans. And in the game, I think this is a case where realism does not normally hurt playability. Specially not with, as Nyr mentioned, stat ordering and reroll undo. If you pay attention to the docs and make a PC inside the right age range (for the stats you want) And you order to go along with that and what you want, the possible outcomes are actually very narrow and almost not random at all.
And if somebody else happens to get alot luckier then you on one PC, So what, not like that is the only PC you or they will ever have...unlike RL where I'm stuck being better then everybody else my entire life... ;D
Yeah, it's more fun and realistic for there to be that random luck to it.
I think it's more fun to have exceptional in all four stats, but that's me.
Characters with that crazy stats always seem doomed to a short life. I get stats where all four are really good and I get nervous.
>reroll self
think OOCly: C'mon, just one average pleeease...The rest can be awesome...just one average...c'mon....c'mon...
In many ways I like the struggle of having an imperfect pc, physical trait wise. I tend to depend on others to compensat, building alliances, role playing out the lack of perfection and its struggle.
Sometimes things can get frustrating, not being able to easly find those things I feel my pc needs to make them them, but its never impossible to achieve.
There is indeed objects in game that will allow one to over come in themselves short comings as well, and every lacking a pc has is an opportunity to explore a new avenue in game.
Not to mention, the lacking of a physical trait can be over come if you apply to the thinking of longevity and ingenuity.
I think it would be nice to roll before you make your sdesc so you don't make "The fit and trim, perfect 10 buff man" then roll Strength- sucks, endurance- worse, wisdom- special ed.
If I rolled bad stats, I'd want to change it to "the spastic, wuss boy".
My only character with awesome stats with my first. He was a merchant.
He died. :D
I like non-awesome stats. All of my most fun characters have had mostly below average-average-above average.
Oddly enough a merchant of mine had the best stats too. I don't believe I've ever rolled a natural AI.
I've had some bad rolls, but I've never felt like they've hindered my character at all. In fact, a low strength character helped me combat packrat syndrome.
My non-combat characters tend to have the best stats, except for a few cases where it was no surprise due to the age/guild I chose.
I like it when my stats fit my character, regardless of how good/bad they are... but I do love having a character with amazing stats.
They do tend to get in trouble a lot because it's hard to remember not to overestimate them.
Quote from: Delirium on May 02, 2012, 07:54:49 PM
My non-combat characters tend to have the best stats.
I rolled up a d-elf with AI endurance once. I believe I just randomed all the stats, and when I saw it I just sort of stared for a little while.
That dude could run forever, no joke.
But, in like somewhere between 8 and 10 years of playing I think that's the only AI I've ever rolled.
I seem to remember having a character with an Absolutely incredible two exceptionals and a bellow average once. I think he lasted all of a day. The problem with it was the stats overcompensated for a lack of skills.
Basically, I went out to 'test' him and masacred the first 4-5 things I killed. More like a 10 day warrior than a 1 day warrior. Then on my way back in I stumbled on something with comparable stats to myself (I'm assuming) Because i couldn't hit it for anything and it chomped on me -.- Just outside of the newbie res time.
But yes,I like the 'random' stats, and no its not really random if you figure out the age range for the race you like you can pretty much hit the nail on the head if you really want those beastly stats I used to have it figured out to a science but that was years ago so I'm not sure I could roll another one like that again on purpose,
I do however kind of have this overwhelming yearning to play a child defiler or psionic. Seriously, start as a child with a family and work up from there actually play it all out from say mid-teens on and let the personality and life experiances go from there. Background would be rediculously short but I always thought it'd be intriguing to see what happened and assuming you could keep yourself alive into the later reaches of life (you know from say 13-14 years old all the way up to 60 or more for a human) To see how absolutely ungodly powerful you could eventually become. Somehow I think I might be disapointed though. Both in how the stats ultimately turned out, aswell in how quickly I "Maxxed out" Said character... Being a 12 year old master defiler could be cool, but where do you go from there?.
Quote from: Kebron on May 03, 2012, 03:52:37 AM
I seem to remember having a character with an Absolutely incredible two exceptionals and a bellow average once. I think he lasted all of a day. The problem with it was the stats overcompensated for a lack of skills.
Basically, I went out to 'test' him and masacred the first 4-5 things I killed. More like a 10 day warrior than a 1 day warrior. Then on my way back in I stumbled on something with comparable stats to myself (I'm assuming) Because i couldn't hit it for anything and it chomped on me -.- Just outside of the newbie res time.
But yes,I like the 'random' stats, and no its not really random if you figure out the age range for the race you like you can pretty much hit the nail on the head if you really want those beastly stats I used to have it figured out to a science but that was years ago so I'm not sure I could roll another one like that again on purpose,
I do however kind of have this overwhelming yearning to play a child defiler or psionic. Seriously, start as a child with a family and work up from there actually play it all out from say mid-teens on and let the personality and life experiances go from there. Background would be rediculously short but I always thought it'd be intriguing to see what happened and assuming you could keep yourself alive into the later reaches of life (you know from say 13-14 years old all the way up to 60 or more for a human) To see how absolutely ungodly powerful you could eventually become. Somehow I think I might be disapointed though. Both in how the stats ultimately turned out, aswell in how quickly I "Maxxed out" Said character... Being a 12 year old master defiler could be cool, but where do you go from there?.
You split his soul into seven bits and gather a cult around you as you try to grasp control of a country with the immortality you just achieved.
Just don't be casting any spells at that Halik Potter dude.
stats don't mean a whole lot when you have a pretty high shot of getting killed in the first few days (hours) of playing.
imo stats are kind of overrated.. but it really depends on what you want to do.
If stats meant everything, this world would be ran by muls in no time, anyway.
I'm really starting to think they are too. Skill level (which is based more on play time than anything) appears far more important. Though now that I've said that I'm sure I'll be inadvertently killed in a brawl by some 20-minute old, "Absolutely Incredible Strength" newb.
stats don't matter
get hit by a fresh half-giant etwoing a sword
tell me stats don't matter
I thought stats didn't matter ... then I played with AI's.
I've had more than a few AI. They were rarely in the stat I really wanted them in.
Beyond the obvious, IMHO stats matter most to the marginal characters. Like a pickpocket combat character. Getting a combination of great dex and decent strength and endurance on the same character (lets say excep dex, v. good str and end) can make the concept sorta work. Not getting good stats can deep six it from the get go.
I'm generally happy with my stats. With reroll and undo, you pretty much have a good chance to not be borked too badly ever.
I would not want it to be like, a stat-total thing. I hate that. Then every character is just a permutation of the same numbers. Guh.
Muls have good coded advantages, but they also have severely debilitating coded disadvantages.
Quote from: Kebron on May 03, 2012, 03:52:37 AM
I do however kind of have this overwhelming yearning to play a child defiler or psionic. Seriously, start as a child with a family and work up from there actually play it all out from say mid-teens on and let the personality and life experiances go from there. Background would be rediculously short but I always thought it'd be intriguing to see what happened and assuming you could keep yourself alive into the later reaches of life (you know from say 13-14 years old all the way up to 60 or more for a human) To see how absolutely ungodly powerful you could eventually become. Somehow I think I might be disapointed though. Both in how the stats ultimately turned out, aswell in how quickly I "Maxxed out" Said character... Being a 12 year old master defiler could be cool, but where do you go from there?.
If you know how to keep a PC alive long enough, the stat increases are GREAT. Mostly because it's fun to actually see them move.
Too bad child PCs aren't permitted anymore.
Quote from: Reiteration on May 09, 2012, 12:40:22 PM
Too bad child PCs aren't permitted anymore.
The burping, farting halfbreed infant is here, resting.
Quote from: Tenua on May 09, 2012, 11:48:45 AM
Quote from: Kebron on May 03, 2012, 03:52:37 AM
I do however kind of have this overwhelming yearning to play a child defiler or psionic. Seriously, start as a child with a family and work up from there actually play it all out from say mid-teens on and let the personality and life experiances go from there. Background would be rediculously short but I always thought it'd be intriguing to see what happened and assuming you could keep yourself alive into the later reaches of life (you know from say 13-14 years old all the way up to 60 or more for a human) To see how absolutely ungodly powerful you could eventually become. Somehow I think I might be disapointed though. Both in how the stats ultimately turned out, aswell in how quickly I "Maxxed out" Said character... Being a 12 year old master defiler could be cool, but where do you go from there?.
If you know how to keep a PC alive long enough, the stat increases are GREAT. Mostly because it's fun to actually see them move.
Hrm. Speak for yourself.
No move whatsoever :/