Somewhat of an interesting discussion going on in another thread about player recruitment and player retention. I encourage anyone to read through it and contribute your thoughts if you haven't already.
That being said, there appears to be somewhat of a side-discussion cropping up about whether or not it's cool to fuck with noobs.
Some new players will want to be screwed with, and will think the game is too easy if no one messes with them during the first couple of hours of playing.
Other new players will want to play for a good six to eight hours before they're attacked by PCs, needing some time to get used to the game commands, etc.
Quote from: Kronus on October 08, 2010, 07:23:17 PM
Quote from: Aarlo on October 08, 2010, 06:19:47 PM
Quote from: Kronus on October 08, 2010, 06:02:58 PMI'm glad you made it through your first tavern scene, though I'm a little sad I won't get to eat your tandu sausages.
Actually someone got their hands on some of my stuff before I figured out I should toss everything into my pack.. and CLOSE it!
I suppose there's nothing like a good thief's welcome to Armageddon!
I guess it bears mentioning that people preying on and exploiting new players is a great way to drive them off the game. I deliberately don't steal from newbie characters because it's hard enough surviving those first few days.
How do you know the difference? How do you know if it's cool to fuck with a noob or not?
Here is the guideline that I use:
I'm one of the more patient players that I know with noobs, and spend considerable effort helping noobs. I have a careful standard that I use to know when the ideal point to attack them is. It basically boils down to attacking them at the moment when they begin thinking for themselves.
Consider it for a moment. A new player logs in. Hopefully, a senior player notices them and interacts with them. New players will have plenty of questions, and will tend to follow advice from senior players somewhat blindly at first. Really, what choice do they have? If you tell them they need armor, they will go buy armor. If you tell them to keep their hood up in the desert to keep sand out of their eyes, they will keep their hood up in the desert. If you tell them to sheathe their blade before entering a tavern, they will sheathe their blade. They trust you. They have no clue what's going on.
However, at some point, it's inevitable that any new player will become dissatisfied with the advice that they're getting, and point out that they want to try some things on their own. This is natural. For example, if you help a new player to get food and water, they may go along with you, but then if you suggest that they join the Byn, they may point out that they'd rather join House Salarr.
This is the --perfect-- time to fuck with them. It's at this point where they have enough grasp on the game code that they're starting to think for themselves, and this is the best time to try to give them a swift kick in the nuts to help them understand that, when thinking for themselves, they need to constantly maintain a healthy mistrust of all other PCs, at all times.
Anyways, I'm not proposing this guideline as a rule or anything. It's merely the standard that I use for deciding when it's appropriate to fuck with the new players. That being said, I tend to fuck with new players a lot and I've never had a complaint. A couple of people that I fucked with went on to become long term players.
Anyone have a better idea? Better standard for judgment? Thoughts? Criticism?
It's encouraged to be courteous towards new players (ie. explaining code, stuff they would know, where to find helpfiles, etc) but after that, they'll have to commence the extremely steep climb of "fitting in". Whether or not it's from the hands of a Pkiller, a nasty NPC, thieves, or dehydration, eventually new players are going to face some very harsh circumstances which they will need to deal with or die.
Picking on new players to intentionally take advantage of their newb status is of course, bad form.
Unless they never use any caps/punctuation whatsoever, in which case, feel free to kick the ever loving shit out of them for me. :)
I would never lurk in a tavern/entry point and steal from new entries. That's the lowest of the low. It's like spawn camping. fucking bullshit.
That being said, I would steal from everyone I could if I was playing a thieving necker. But since everyone knows I never do that, there's no reason to worry.
Stepping into Arm for the first time is a bewildering experience. Seriously. You don't know where the hell you are, you don't know where the hell anything else is, you don't know how the hell to get there and you don't know what the hell you're supposed to do there even if you somehow manage to find it. At least you get money, food and basic clothes now. In my newbie days you got 500 'sid and had to buy your own pants before someone saw you.
Still, all else being equal the game starts fucking with you the moment you go IC. If you're lucky or thorough, you might find a waterseller before you run out. You probably will think that buying stupidly overpriced beer at the bar is the only way to stay hydrated. You will get hungry, be too feeble to go hunting, and will not know to craft <ingredient> into <cheap, easy food item> until someone decides to help you out. You will probably spend a few hours trying to talk to NPCs, wondering why everyone is ignoring you, until you figure out that NPCs are "a adjective, adjective species gender" while the players are "the adjective, adjective species gender". Most of those players have stopped only long enough to look down at you before moving on, and you have no idea how to find them.
All of this happens well before you manage to get a foot into anything that even halfway hints at how awesome playing on Armageddon can be. You have no idea that any of that awesomeness exists; all you know is that you can't fight anything you've come across, you're out of money, you're starting to starve and you still haven't figured out what you're supposed to be doing. The last thing you need is some jackass to sneak-hide in, steal your sword off your belt and sneak-hide back out. Now you can't even defend yourself against the things you have no prayer of killing. Awesome game.
Sure, some players are smart. Some thrive in adversity. Some just get lucky and figure it out fast. And while I'm not advocating coddling new players or bending the IC reality of Zalanthas, I think that anyone can come up with an IC justification to not murder/steal/cheat/lie/misdirect someone until they manage to find their footing and start enjoying themselves a little. Getting shit on while you feel like you're already drowning in shit is not a recipe for promoting game growth.
If you knowingly target new players (in a codedly negative manner), you are in bad form.
IF YOU ARE GUILTY OF THE ABOVE, YOU ARE A BAD ROLEPLAYER AND DO NOT CONTRIBUTE TO THE GAME, AT ALL.
Examples of targeting a new player is as such: You spot the newbie chargen gear - If you have the ability, and/or the silvertongue for it - You lead them somewhere dangerous and kill them - Taking their money.
That doesn't 'immerse' them in shit by killing them for their money by taking OOC advantage of them.
I think it's usually best to not give new players any impression that you're trying, OOCly, to help them. (I don't say that you shouldn't help them; just try to avoid letting them sense it. It's anti-immersive and encourages bad habits in 'em.)
But if you do decide to act like Mister Helpful--"Hi! Are you new in town? Want to know where the waterseller is?"--don't abuse the trust they're putting in you. IF YOU PET THE NEWBIE, YOU CAN'T KICK IT.
If you abuse newbies on purpose, I will find you, and cut you to death.
If you give them a hard time, ICly, without damaging them, I will find you, and give you metals.
I tend to treat new players the same as I do everyone else, with the following exceptions:
- I try harder to interact with them.
- If they ask for directions, or where to get <insert common shop item here> ICly, I'll generally comply, if not walk with them to their destination.
- I answer OOCquestions or proactively provide syntax help (when I can tell that someone needs it) as politely as possible.
Other than that, it's up to my PC how to deal with them. I don't think I've ever directly killed a PC so far, so they have little to fear, but I think that even newer players are perceptive enough to notice when someone is being unrealistically nice to their character, and it has the potential to ruin their immersion.
EDIT: Damn, Brytta beat me to it.
I don't think so, Aaron. People are insanely nice on H&S Muds. Not a joke. You log in, you get five tells all saying welcome and hit me up if you need love.
So no, I don't agree with you about somebody understanding that you are being too nice. I cut newbs breaks. Lots of them.
Is it horrible and wrong to type, "Ooc My character is an elf. All elves are con-artists and out to get you."?
Re: above, nope.
I say you can pick on newbies if its ICly sensible, but not codedly, and so that it serves as IC interaction to draw them into the world. If your character is a badass militia, scare them, try to recruit them, profile them, whatever...(then take them aside and be like...how are you finding the game? Do you need help?) I've had positive responses with some of my characters who were surly or scary helping out newbs. I know some of the things that -hooked- me were being terrified of people, which made the friends my characters made in game that much closer. (And obviously, not picking on newbs but interacting with them is okay, too!)
So do your utmost to get them involved, whether it be through friendly or unfriendly IC interactions (but if you do negative IC, explain it and offer help OOCly). -Don't- pick on newbies codedly or pk them etc etc.
Quote from: Bogre on October 09, 2010, 01:23:15 AM
So do your utmost to get them involved, whether it be through friendly or unfriendly IC interactions (but if you do negative IC, explain it and offer help OOCly). -Don't- pick on newbies codedly or pk them etc etc.
Thanks. This is what I was trying to say.
I simply separate IC and OOC. Let's say an elf who's absolutely a newbie has entered Zalanthas. I'm a gemmed dwarf. He tries to speak with me. I simply ignore him or give him a glare IC, but then quickly OOC: "In this MUD, elves are known to be thieving bastards who steal like kenders and murder like goblins. I'm also a gemmed elementalist, this means I'm a filthy magicker who's just more than a pariah.". Then I'll give him my IM adresses if he's interested and lead him to the helpers page. I will OOC him that my character will be more lenient and will show him important spots of the city if asked IC, but normally he would barely interact with him.
A bit cold? Maybe.. But even though I can go out of my way to show him where he can buy a waterskin or a sapphire-embedded sword, I won't be a nanny. First; I play this game for my own enjoyment too and I'd like to get more involved with my dwarf's thoughts about accomplishing 23rd part of his focus. I won't go hunt scrabs with him, even if my dwarf can easily ad-hoc an IC reason for that.
Second; I believe new people should feel forced to read the documentation and act accordingly, or having them hang around some more just to play a friendly elf or a human warrior that tries to be a sorcerer - God, I can't count how many human warriors approached to my dwarven gemmers about being mages themselves - isn't fruitful.
ARM does indeed take time. This morning, my last character report took half an hour to write. If a new player doesn't bother to even read the beginner's docs, I'll try to kindly force him to read them, answering nearly every question with "You can read more about it at http://www.armageddon.org/....." even if it takes more time to find the link than simply answering him. Or he won't bother later, too and he'll keep on being a newbie.
There are newbies who I want to take home and give them pretty collars and stroke their fur and give them yummy treats and make my cat jealous. And there are newbies who I want to siteban. There are also the ones inbetween, who I'll usually make -some- attempt at civility with. If this is met with _some_ attempt at roleplay, then it becomes a fun scene. If not, I just remove my character from the scene and let someone else deal with it. That's how I was treated when I was new, and that was fine by me. It set a pattern of "tolerance to those who try, intolerance to those who don't."
I'm with Evil Erdlu. I completely divorce IC from OOC. I use OOC to give hints/advice and to remind that while I'm helping on an OOC level, my character is a different person and may not have the newbie's best interests at heart. I then continue along with the scene as best as can be done.
As a side note, this thread is making me realize how completely divisive our current roleplay standards are.
On topic, I use OOC to help newbies, and remain IC otherwise - and yeah, anyone who abuses newbie ignorance to gank them is just an asshole.
Quote from: a strange shadow on October 09, 2010, 10:00:53 AM
As a side note, this thread is making me realize how completely divisive our current roleplay standards are.
This seems like an interesting point, but I'm not certain what you mean.
I divorce IC from OOC, but it is to our advantage to have more players in the game, so in that aspect I will make sure there's some IC reason for my PC to actually assist a newbie for a little while if they need assistance.
If they're looking for the market, my character suddenly has a reason to go there (usually it's to buy soap), and I'll explain the town on the way.
If they're getting all chatty with some thieving necker, I'll pop into their mind and mention how untrustworthy and thieving that necker obviously is, because I fucking hate neckers IC'ly.
Even if you're playing a dick, you can find a reason to help a newbie. Keeping IC and OOC separate is no excuse. You can spare a moment of your fucking immerzionz to help them out.
Quote from: Gunnerblaster on October 08, 2010, 11:02:32 PM
If you knowingly target new players (in a codedly negative manner), you are in bad form.
IF YOU ARE GUILTY OF THE ABOVE, YOU ARE A BAD ROLEPLAYER AND DO NOT CONTRIBUTE TO THE GAME, AT ALL.
Examples of targeting a new player is as such: You spot the newbie chargen gear - If you have the ability, and/or the silvertongue for it - You lead them somewhere dangerous and kill them - Taking their money.
That doesn't 'immerse' them in shit by killing them for their money by taking OOC advantage of them.
This happened with my first PC.
I'll go out of my way to help a newbie any time I feel it's needed. If I'm unsure if it is needed I'll OOC and ask if they're new to the game / need to know where to get something spefic / need to know how to make money / want a complete guided tour of the city.
Even the most flimsy of IC justifications is enough for me. My mass murdering sociopath might be bored of eating beetle meat and want something else. I may have been going there anyway. I may want to recruit them / sell them stuff.
The first time you meet a newb IG, give them a break. If you're very very nice OOC, you may OOC to tell them that next time your pc may not be so generous...
I was playing a <mistrusted type of person> not too long ago when a newbie came up to <mistrusted place in a certain quarter>. This person was using 'say' to ask why he couldn't pick up his pack anymore. I figured he just didn't know that you can only have so many objects in your hand at any given time, per your agility. So my PC tried helping him out, claiming that he was "cursed", and that my PC would cure him. So my PC charged him a lot of sid, and "cured" him of this ailment. I made sure that my PC told him "go ahead and tell the folks in the Gaj who cured you" so that the gravity of his agreeing to <cure> would have a meaningful impact. I figured if there was any group of population that would convince him of "the horror", it would be them. So apparently he did, because then the entire Gaj population (including this PC) were livid and further mistrusting of <mistrusted type of person>.
I definitely feel it was a borderline situation, but I think I made the right decision. I hope that player decided to stick around. And if he/she didn't, then we're probably better off--you get screwed left and right in Zalanthas all the time. The best time to expose people to that reality is right away in an IC context.
edit: cleaned it up some.
Quote from: Barzalene on October 09, 2010, 10:03:08 AM
Quote from: a strange shadow on October 09, 2010, 10:00:53 AM
As a side note, this thread is making me realize how completely divisive our current roleplay standards are.
This seems like an interesting point, but I'm not certain what you mean.
Everybody hates everybody. Nobody's supposed to meaningfully interact in a potentially positive (character benefiting) manner, or they're playing badly. This isn't actually the case according to our documentation, but it seems to be the current mentality of the playerbase.
I always get a laugh out of it when a veteran player handling a powerful character dresses the character up as a noob, lets himself be led away, then kicks the snot out of the would-be newbie killer in his own apartment.
I've done similarly, but didn't really let myself get dragged off. :P I just had those as my character's "lazy clothes" for when he was just hanging out and didn't want to be wearing his armor. It was silly how many people just assumed my character was just some schlub when I could have killed most of them before they could react.
I laughed...
...a lot.
Quote from: a strange shadow on October 09, 2010, 08:14:28 PM
Everybody hates everybody. Nobody's supposed to meaningfully interact in a potentially positive (character benefiting) manner, or they're playing badly. This isn't actually the case according to our documentation, but it seems to be the current mentality of the playerbase.
For better or for worse, the talking heads of the GDB do not represent an accurate cross-section of the people playing the game. In game you'll find plenty of people helping one another out, being courteous and, if not generous, at least respectful and decent to one another. The GDB sometimes likes to howl from the trees and fling feces and beat their chests in a display of aggression, which is understood by veterans to be in good fun and 'arr, grr, Zalanthas harsh!', but come to think of it might be another aspect of giving new, interested players the wrong first impression.
Quote from: a strange shadow on October 09, 2010, 08:14:28 PM
Quote from: Barzalene on October 09, 2010, 10:03:08 AM
Quote from: a strange shadow on October 09, 2010, 10:00:53 AM
As a side note, this thread is making me realize how completely divisive our current roleplay standards are.
This seems like an interesting point, but I'm not certain what you mean.
Everybody hates everybody. Nobody's supposed to meaningfully interact in a potentially positive (character benefiting) manner, or they're playing badly. This isn't actually the case according to our documentation, but it seems to be the current mentality of the playerbase.
I agree with you.
Oddly however, there are a great many players who in game are an absolutely joy to interact with. Some will fuck you over, fuck you up, and some will support you or fight you or become absolutely tangibly real. It's a shame that's not more obvious from reading the boards.
Most people will not play fuck the newbie. There are a few though that can't think in three dimensions and they think that's all that harsh is. But yeah, you make a really good point. I wish I were responding more intelligently. I'm just not getting it together. Someone else will say it more eloquently I hope.
Quote from: Salt Merchant on October 09, 2010, 09:29:33 PM
I always get a laugh out of it when a veteran player handling a powerful character dresses the character up as a noob, lets himself be led away, then kicks the snot out of the would-be newbie killer in his own apartment.
This post made me realize how many people tried to do this to my first character. :o
I try to OOCly help extremely obvious noobs, no matter what I happen to be playing at the time. I've had some, eh, "interesting" things happen sometimes, however.
Example one, I was a long-lived gemmer and happened to be sitting in the Gaj one day. Enter the newb, totally clueless, having trouble with commands, etc. I drag him off and start trying to help him out. It all went very well, and they seemed to get it. But then of course, their PC looked upon my mundane-hating, grizzled, spice-addled gemmer favorably. It put me in a tricky spot where I had to explain the prejudices against gemmers. A similar thing happened another time with that same character of mine, after saving the life of a new player in the wilds. Sometimes you just have to cut 'em off and toss them into uncut ICness.
I was playing a Byn leader once, and believe me: you meet a lot of new players when you're a Byn leader. Not usually too difficult, because not only can you gently guide them in their noobishness as an ooc-ish mentor, but you're also their IC boss. It's pretty easy to get into. However, one time it fell absolutely flat. I was trying to help out a PC who revealed to me that English was their second language and that they were having trouble. Typing-wise, I thought they were doing great! So I tried to hand out some friendly encouragement, but I could sense some IC-bluriness, so I gave the disclaimer that my -character- might not be so friendly! The separation between IC and OOC apparently got... jumbled. I think at one point they actually swore at me in French, with the say command. Yeesh. If you're still around, foreign player, sorry things started so roughly!
As for the basic point of the thread, no, I don't target obviously new players with serious harm at all, especially if I'm in a clearly more powerful coded or social position. I define "serious harm" as PKing or major theft (all of their food and water, every single one of their coins). If a new player or a new PC was stirring up serious trouble (let's say, entering the 'Rinth to try and bash mobs), then it's open season regardless of newbishness. Sometimes you just gotta keep it real, and that's the best thing you can do for a new player.
Hi all,
As a newbie myself (currently on my fourth caracter) my opinion is this:
It's ok to pick on a newbie if it's in character for you to do that.
But what's not ok (in my opinion) is using OOC knowledge as an excuse to do so.
ie: You know OOcly that those clothes that guy is wearing mean he's probably a newbie. So you take advantage of that IC.
That's just crap, bad roleplay and would likely drive me away more than some harsh treatment that was done in character with excellent roleplay.
Truth to the world and to the character is what for me seperates Arm from the other MUDs I've tried, and what makes me come back for more.
Cheers
Quote from: SandCat on October 10, 2010, 05:40:31 AM
Hi all,
As a newbie myself (currently on my fourth caracter) my opinion is this:
It's ok to pick on a newbie if it's in character for you to do that.
But what's not ok (in my opinion) is using OOC knowledge as an excuse to do so.
ie: You know OOcly that those clothes that guy is wearing mean he's probably a newbie. So you take advantage of that IC.
That's just crap, bad roleplay and would likely drive me away more than some harsh treatment that was done in character with excellent roleplay.
Truth to the world and to the character is what for me seperates Arm from the other MUDs I've tried, and what makes me come back for more.
Cheers
Welcome to Armageddon.
Enjoy your stay! (Because we will)
(Leave your chalton leather boots at the doorway, please.)
I've been following this thread. As a player whose like.. 5 months in..
My first character lasted like less than a day.
In that time I was:
-helped by some nice stump (thanks mr. n00b helping stump)
-raped and KO'd by his roommate
-saw some elf get killed in the market by guards.
-taken out to the salt flats by some guy and had my backpack stolen (with all my water and sid and no idea how to get water)
-locked out of Nak and killed by a gith.
It was pretty harsh and O_o coming from simutronics muds.
But it hooked me on arm. Both the niceness of the stump (how he helped and kept almost everything ICly, save for some OOC notes on syntax usage), and the harshness of how I was basically used and then left for dead in the salt flats.
I don't think it's unfair.. as long as you have IC reasoning.
Quote from: Gunnerblaster on October 10, 2010, 06:05:02 AM
Welcome to Armageddon.
Enjoy your stay! (Because we will)
(Leave your chalton leather boots at the doorway, please.)
Thanks! But please can I keep my Tandu Sausages?
Um, the thread title is bad.
You are not supposed to pick on the players, old or new.
Now, if the title was, "Picking on new players PCs, Fair or Unfair?"
The answer is Fair. They should be treated the same as anybody else.
Thank you for your responses. I'd like to point out to everyone that I have not once received a complaint from noobs in my years of interacting with them. I think that a few of you are mistaking "fucking with a noob" with "griefing a noob", the latter of which I would never never do.
As a thought experiment, were I to ask players if it were okay to fuck with the character of someone who had been playing for over a year, I'm pretty sure I'd get like a 98% response that this is okay.
Were I to ask if it were okay to fuck with someone in their first two minutes of game play, I'm pretty sure that most of the players, and like 98% of the staff would respond that this is
notokay.
So really, the thread topic better relates to knowing
when it's okay to screw with people. Since players adapt to the game at different rates, I don't think there is really a rule of thumb. I'd suggest that it has to be based upon signs that one is getting from the player themselves, as to whether or not they are ready for it. Eventually, we all need to be ready for it.
In any event, I'd like to draw your attention to the post made by Evil Erdlu. I think he offered a valid response to the thread topic that deserves consideration.
Quote from: evil_erdlu on October 09, 2010, 03:25:34 AM
I simply separate IC and OOC. Let's say an elf who's absolutely a newbie has entered Zalanthas. I'm a gemmed dwarf. He tries to speak with me. I simply ignore him or give him a glare IC, but then quickly OOC: "In this MUD, elves are known to be thieving bastards who steal like kenders and murder like goblins. I'm also a gemmed elementalist, this means I'm a filthy magicker who's just more than a pariah.". Then I'll give him my IM adresses if he's interested and lead him to the helpers page. I will OOC him that my character will be more lenient and will show him important spots of the city if asked IC, but normally he would barely interact with him.
A bit cold? Maybe.. But even though I can go out of my way to show him where he can buy a waterskin or a sapphire-embedded sword, I won't be a nanny. First; I play this game for my own enjoyment too and I'd like to get more involved with my dwarf's thoughts about accomplishing 23rd part of his focus. I won't go hunt scrabs with him, even if my dwarf can easily ad-hoc an IC reason for that.
Second; I believe new people should feel forced to read the documentation and act accordingly, or having them hang around some more just to play a friendly elf or a human warrior that tries to be a sorcerer - God, I can't count how many human warriors approached to my dwarven gemmers about being mages themselves - isn't fruitful.
ARM does indeed take time. This morning, my last character report took half an hour to write. If a new player doesn't bother to even read the beginner's docs, I'll try to kindly force him to read them, answering nearly every question with "You can read more about it at http://www.armageddon.org/....." even if it takes more time to find the link than simply answering him. Or he won't bother later, too and he'll keep on being a newbie.
After three days of reading everything I could on the website, I apped and got my first character. After a couple of hours of trying to figure out what Nak looked like, I ran into pretty near my first pc interaction with a tall, beautiful woman. She took my young male pc to the market and convinced him to spend over three small on a pair of pants. More than a third of his starting sids...poof.
It was perfect and beautiful. She was just slightly flirty, hinting that he needed some nice clothes, led him around by the chin. Wonderful emoting and real interaction.
Over two years later, I heartily recommend this particular kind of messing with a newb.
Preacher, that was amazing roleplaying on your part - something that many old players wouldn't allow themselves to experience. I applaud you.
I try to live by this - my new character ate something that I knew was poisonous that he didn't necessarily know was poisonous. He survived and learned.
I hope you continue that awesome roleplay and hope you have many exciting experiences.
If they use 'say' more than once every ten minutes, I am a nice guy.
If they use 'tell' at least once, I'ma show them what it means to kank a carru.
Don't pick on newbies in any way that you wouldn't do to a veteran. (Note: I'm not endorsing the converse statement.)
If a newbie attempts to engage you in an unfavorable social circumstance (ie one of you is an elf/magicker/'rinther/mutant/whatever), I think it's much better to roll with it ICly rather than go OOC and explain the prejudices involved. I'm certainly not saying turn all friendly and helpful, but it's really quite possible to be both surly/hateful and helpful to a new character. Going OOC should really be a last resort means to explain things that really can't be explained otherwise, like code issues.
I once played a soldier that ran into a Newbie sneaky, and with a gentle authority made them my spy, that way I could justify teaching them about the city and how to utilize their skills. It was quiet fun for the brief amount of time they lived.
hi everyone
I don't consider myself a noob. I consider myself.. semi-noob. I think as a semi-noob I'm in a great position to help noobies. It would make me feel really good if while playing armageddon, I could help noobies. Because I recently got hooked and I want to make this game fucking huuuuuuge, and to do that I NEED TO HELP NOOBIES.
And no, I don't mean "give them a whole buncha sid, tell them where to hunt and then shoo them out the gates for ADVENTAR!" No, I mean, I can RP with noobies, probably in a tavern, and create a good scene. I love RPing and I'll RP with damn near anything, even myself (which I often do because I am lonely...). And I can RP appropriately with anyone (even a necker) to help them understand what this setting is like, I think.
example:
I've seen noobie neckers. Ones who inappropriately acted with my characters. In addition to the "BAH FUCKING NECKER" act, I engaged other PCs at the time to RP with the noobie, and made an interesting scene out of it. Players who I knew had more experience than I did, to boot. And in the end I think I helped that noobie, even though he ended up no sids richer (i hope) and probably a little confused why everyone was disgusted by his handsum elfie.
As such I humbly request that an imm control an NPC every now and then to get experienced chars and direct them towards a noobie. I know you're busy with people dying out in the wastes and all that jazz, but it shouldn't take you more than a few seconds to have a citizen NPC run around screaming in a panic about some inappropriate noobish behavior spotted in a tavern, to alert older players to come "help" by enacting a "scene" that "immerses" the noob, whether it be to smack them on the head and send them stiffly to jail, or to do whatever it is their char is inclined to do..
plus, it would really send that noob for a loop if they suddenly thought every NPC could possibly "out" their actions.. it would make the world feel real and all that.. and I think it's unfair that just veteran players get imm exposure..
just my two cents (I edited)
thanx
Loving the enthusiasm -- but just to correct you, veteran players don't hog all of the attention. You noobies and semi-noobies get plenty.
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on October 13, 2010, 10:45:12 AM
Loving the enthusiasm -- but just to correct you, veteran players don't hog all of the attention. You noobies and semi-noobies get plenty.
You might very well not even realize that you're getting it, however. When it's not a gith eating your face, staff interaction is usually very subtly done.
yeah, as a semi-noobie I know I get plenty... but as a true noobie I don't recall it. well, maybe I missed something. after all, I was a tr00 n00b.
Reflecting back, I can discern a number of times staff had interacted with my noob self. Haven't noticed it so much lately. :'(
I completely break character when dealing with new players. It would be better to give them a friendly OOC lecture about whatever they should know and let them chew on that instead of trying for an uneasy mix of rp and education.
I get the (perhaps wrong) impression that most veteran players favor isolationist outdoorsy roles over the socialite roles. So they probably don't really hog much attention at all if so.
Quote from: Zoan on October 13, 2010, 05:03:16 PM
I get the (perhaps wrong) impression that most veteran players favor isolationist outdoorsy roles over the socialite roles. So they probably don't really hog much attention at all if so.
I think they can just sustain them longer.
Quote from: spicemustflow on October 13, 2010, 02:10:19 PM
I completely break character when dealing with new players. It would be better to give them a friendly OOC lecture about whatever they should know and let them chew on that instead of trying for an uneasy mix of rp and education.
This was my outlook, staff doesn't really approve.
I'm cool with that, though.
Don't eat my brainz!
Quote from: spicemustflow on October 13, 2010, 02:10:19 PM
I completely break character when dealing with new players. It would be better to give them a friendly OOC lecture about whatever they should know and let them chew on that instead of trying for an uneasy mix of rp and education.
Yeah, I absolutely break character with noobs.
I just play my character without any thought of whether or not the player is new on the other end. I don't specifically target anyone for aggression -or- coddling. If they do something to make their character a target, then they'll hopefully learn from that. If someone appears to be having an issue with the code or commands, I'll help them out via the OOC command. I personally feel that going OOC to "baby" them is nearly as bad as targetting them specifically because you believe they are new. Edit: What I mean more specifically about "going OOC to "baby" them" is that I will not have my character behave in an OOC manner.
I'm still the awesomness-est newb evar.
Well, the first time that I played, there was a nice old man sitting at the Gaj and I was a young, pretty, virgin girl. Yes. Seriously, my first PC was a virgin - lol. So he role played with me, interacted with me in a way that was welcoming, talked about mundane stuffs and I asked about the first thing was, 'How do I get a job and kept fed and watered'? All Icly, I was able to derive information. Also that a little animated little boy in the middle of nowhere was showing me where the poop seller was. That imm, was so adorable. "Whoa! 10 whole coins!". During that time, I found myself summoning the HELP syntax to read about stuffs.
There was once that I actually just, broke out of character in a room full of gangsta guys to ask, "What's a kank? Should my PC know about something commonly used like that?". I use OOC only when I'm really clueless and when I get a feeling that my PC should know what the hell is going on. Then I discovered the forums. From there, a lot of things is available to be read and information that is shared. :D
Either way, I don't think it's nice to like, take all a newbie has. Probably something that'll sting would be good. Of course after messing them, you have to clean them up a little right? Or maybe even face the consequence that will follow when the noob gets powahful and pwnts you like that.
-flees-
I don't think it is fair, but it happens, and players learn.
My first few characters will killed in semi bad form ways. I had someone make me follow them down a well, they could climb, I couldn't. I had someone make me follow them into the wild, them with a mount, me without. I had someone lure me into a lawless area, kill me. I had someone....
Above lesson learned, don't follow people... DONT TRUST ANYONE!
Essentially, what I am getting at. Is that I've been killed in MANY stupid ways over the years, and what happens is that I learn. I was new, and it sucked, but I made another character and just didn't do it again.
So... In the end. No it's not really fair, BUT, if it happens, it happens. The ones that quit from something like this are just going to quit eventually when they have an upsetting death. In the end, the people who look at deaths as lessons, are the players whom are going to stick around...
Just my thoughts.
Quote from: Shepard on November 18, 2010, 12:16:23 PM
I don't think it is fair, but it happens, and players learn.
My first few characters will killed in semi bad form ways. I had someone make me follow them down a well, they could climb, I couldn't. I had someone make me follow them into the wild, them with a mount, me without. I had someone lure me into a lawless area, kill me. I had someone....
Above lesson learned, don't follow people... DONT TRUST ANYONE!
Essentially, what I am getting at. Is that I've been killed in MANY stupid ways over the years, and what happens is that I learn. I was new, and it sucked, but I made another character and just didn't do it again.
So... In the end. No it's not really fair, BUT, if it happens, it happens. The ones that quit from something like this are just going to quit eventually when they have an upsetting death. In the end, the people who look at deaths as lessons, are the players whom are going to stick around...
Just my thoughts.
Pretty good way to put it.
My biggest argument here is not whether it is fair or unfair but...
How can you tell if they are new?
We can tell usually.
Some giveaways:
*Failing to use talk or tell instead of say
*Lack of targeting in emotes
*Lack of targeting when trying to sit
*4-line mdescs
*Mdescs where almost every sentence begins with he/she/his/her
*Extended disconnecting in taverns or quit rooms
*Asking for directions within the city
*Emotes about reading the message board
*A desire to hunt rats
*A vague, non-local background that is eagerly relayed
*Repeatedly walking in and out of a room/area with no emotes (but maybe a few looks)
*Use of socials outnumbering emotes
*General behavior cues like naivety and failing to acknowledge documented prejudices (towards elves, halfbreeds, gemmers, etc)
*Use of the following words: clan, warrior, ranger, burglar, pickpocket, guild (lowercase 'g'), town
Note: these aren't all necessarily bad behaviors, just indicators.
I met a character who told me within the first minute that he knew just where to stick a blade, then proceeded to hide in a tavern and perform all sorts of emotes while hidden, including dancing on the bar.
Pretty sure he was a new player. ;)
I still make some terrible errors even after nearly 3 years. haha.
Quote from: Marauder Moe on November 18, 2010, 02:01:07 PMSome giveaways:
( snip )
*Failing to use talk or tell instead of say
( snip )
LOL! I rarely use 'tell'. This one made me laugh. :D
I usually use say and indicate the target in the command emote. To do the same with tell, you have to type their keyword twice.
say (about to stab ~you) Die!
vs
tell you (about to stab !you) Die!
Quote from: Marshmellow on November 18, 2010, 05:59:24 PM
Quote from: Marauder Moe on November 18, 2010, 02:01:07 PMSome giveaways:
( snip )
*Failing to use talk or tell instead of say
( snip )
LOL! I rarely use 'tell'. This one made me laugh. :D
heh but its true. so so true. was how everyone in the Gaj found out I was a n00b.
And the failure to use commas when commas are necessary. But it seems a growing trend not to use punctuation at all. In dwarves, at least. Wait, are we back to dwarves on the hate chart yet?
Quote from: jriley on October 14, 2010, 03:52:48 PM
Quote from: spicemustflow on October 13, 2010, 02:10:19 PM
I completely break character when dealing with new players. It would be better to give them a friendly OOC lecture about whatever they should know and let them chew on that instead of trying for an uneasy mix of rp and education.
Yeah, I absolutely break character with noobs.
I noticed players with power tend to have realistic reasons tor not wtfpwning everyone they meet. I think it is entirely possible to stay in character and help noobs out in most instances.
Maybe this is why we cannot roll gith and halflings :)
As a new player: Yes and no. If you're picking on them specifically because they're a newplayer by trying to take advantage of their lack of knowledge about code that
should be common knowledge, then it's a no-no in my opinion. You're using OOC information that is not compatible with any IC knowledge your character could have. Taking advantage of a new player's general naivete, however, is acceptable.
For example:
Quote from: Shepard on November 18, 2010, 12:16:23 PMMy first few characters will killed in semi bad form ways. I had someone make me follow them down a well, they could climb, I couldn't.
If by follow you mean the follow code then that, to me, is a pretty huge abuse of code and would be bad behavior toward anyone, especially toward newbies. If you were to get them to climb down the well on their own, such as by telling them that they would have no problem climbing down after and that there were cool things down there, then I would think it's acceptable. If they fall it's because they made a bad IC decision. Using the follow code to -force- someone down the well just seems very twinkish. It's taking advantage of their lack of OOC knowledge about the follow code rather than the character's lack of judgment.
If you're new, how would you know that someone used the follow code to force you down somewhere, unless they took advantage of the fact that you -did- fall, and kill you for it... sometimes, the leader missteps. Takes a wrong turn. Player error. It happens. Their -character- didn't plan or intend on dropping your character down a hole. But that's what happened so they RP around it.
Example of what I'd call both poor ooc and ic form was my first character death:
Walking around the grass, 10 hours in, a mul rides in on a war beetle, /looks at me, then kills me in two swings. No talk, no emotes, no rp. Just /look /kill back to back. Someone with that much kama, even with a spec app, should know better. Does nothing to promote the game itself or enjoyment in harsh rp.
How it could have been done better:
Rob my poor naive self of all my water and food, maybe weapons if I had any and then send me off. My character suffers, but I learn and probably even enjoy the conflict as I try to plot revenge.
How it can be done in general:
Rather then exploiting code to get an advantage or kill, do what you're supposed to do with any character, newbie or not. Screw them over with RP. Use them, abuse them, sacrifice them for your greater good. This will teach them the harshness of the game world and hopefully, promote their interest in continuing, new or old.
When i first joined, i enjoyed the game much more when my characters were harressed and pushed, but not killed. So i try to play with newbies in a similar manner.
Quote from: najdorf on December 18, 2010, 11:12:41 AM
When i first joined, i enjoyed the game much more when my characters were harressed and pushed, but not killed. So i try to play with newbies in a similar manner.
The same, whenever possible/practical.
You can see cues as to whether a person is "playing along" with you or not. If their emotes are clipping along, they are probably taking things in and learning. If you're the only one communicating or their input is riddled with coded errors, they're probably too over-whelmed or frazzled to be gaining anything positive from a hardcore roleplay experience. Someone who is experienced with MUDs is going to have a different first day in Zalanthas than someone who is trying to get used to everything at once. For the latter, little or nothing is going to be gained from an exceedingly harsh interaction. They already have a full plate.
There are some amazing, imaginative writers that could bring a lot to the game once they find their comfort zone. For those folks, the first week or so will determine if they become a long-term player or not.
For the obviously green, I support being as compassionate as possible without breaking character. Once the newbie indicators disappear, a little tough love is perfectly in order.
Quote from: Goldberry on December 18, 2010, 11:58:52 AM
For the obviously green, I support being as compassionate as possible without breaking character. Once the newbie indicators disappear, a little tough love is perfectly in order.
Offering you a faint smirk as he drags the blade of his serrated longknife across your throat, the weathered, one-eyed man says, in southern-accented sirishish,
"I really feel like you'en I are really gettin' something out've this... You learn the way've the Known and I, well... Heh."
WELCOME TO ARMAGEDDON!
wait wait.....
When the heck is this game ever easy? Seriusly. Even the best of us die, alot. Unless we get lucky enough to get to the point that our pc's are very very hard to kill. (like "i'm going to go kill that anakore bare handed" strong)
But as it goes. treat people you know are noob like any other pc. End of story. Answer questions if needed, but if you would normally mug them, mug them. so on.
There is a difference between fair on an IC level and fair on an OOC level. The game should be fair OOCly but unfair ICly.
Why result to killing when it's so much better to torment them while helping them figure out the game?
Well unless your in Allanak and then I guess you should just kill them, barbarians!
Even then I think it's much better to rob newbies blind, make them look over their shoulders every time the log in and nearly wet themselves when you suddenly show up...
I rather enjoy having a person just completely mess up my charrie until I get the hang of a game then either kill me or continue. it adds spice and I learn. toss in an ooc like pointing to the emoting help file and then run with it the rest you either get or you don't until much later.
Quote from: Clavis on December 27, 2010, 06:20:55 PM
I think it's much better to rob newbies blind, make them look over their shoulders every time the log in and nearly wet themselves when you suddenly show up...
I'll sign in off on the latter part of that. The trick is to teach them a very valuable lesson without rendering the PC powerless to the point that they want to give up and quit Arm.
I know two people who quit playing ARM because their newbie character was raped within 10 hours of creation.
Just sayin'...
Quote from: Erythil on December 29, 2010, 04:59:31 AM
I know two people who quit playing ARM because their newbie character was raped within 10 hours of creation.
Just sayin'...
I think I had at least three characters WTFpwned within ten hours of finding this game....
i love armageddon. i feel ashamed of my ancient and recent noob mistakes alike.
first character: allanak: asked the NPC-filled tavern for work: went outside after waiting a few minutes; it was a sandstorm you couldn't see in; someone frowned at me in the storm and someone (maybe same person) sent me a Way-thing (didn't even know about the Way at that point) saying that i should have waited for someone to reply. i quit out of the game and didn't try again for three months. then i spent the next half-year after that getting my newbie butt kicked and dying constantly, trying to skillmax so i could survive, without skillmaxing too much, about half and half, which now i think, for the type of characters i play, is too much;
skip forward to present day, its been maybe two or three years since that first day i gave some immortal and/or regular player a headache, and i just love this game. i've been anticipating a thing tonight on armageddon with my character that i've been waiting for awhile. i'm not much better at staying alive without assistance, but i've honed the art of mastering certain personalities and acting them like they're my own. i love acting.
honestly, the first thing that i learned proper was to trust no one IG. i act casual but watch my back and i don't do stupid things, anymore. i don't sleep in common rooms anymore, just rest. i even tend to avoid PCs in civilized towns if i look in one direction and see them far away; but i do roleplay proper in taverns, where there is mild to moderate safety in numbers. i mean, in real life, would you go up to a stranger you didn't know if you and they were the only people in the desert for miles and you weren't lost? in a lawless world? i got the idea in my head quick, before i got screwed over by anyone, though i've been forced to follow people who brandish knives at me and have had everything stolen off my person before. who hasn't? the most paranoid person is going to get screwed with. i've never followed anyone to a lawless area of my own free will.
everything else was a steep learning curve for me. i'm still not sure at how to survive for myself without assistance from a clan or skillmaxing to some extent, which makes me feel bad. i don't differentiate between new players and veterans, though one time a guy who was a veteran made a mistake and i said two OOC teaching sentences and it made me feel stupid later when he proved through good use of code that he wasn't. that was the only time.
i think its a bad idea to break personality to be nicer to an obvious newbie unless you are yourself a nice person; actually, i don't see a problem with playing a nice person in this game, as long as your upbringing is reflected in you and it doesn't seem like you come straight from prep school. i believe it would be realistic ( i know some people don't think so) for naturally nice people to be born in zalanthas, and to have mild to extreme events or upbringings in their lives that dull that edge at least bit to keep the atmosphere going. it would be a challenging mind to fit into.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on December 29, 2010, 05:03:47 AM
Quote from: Erythil on December 29, 2010, 04:59:31 AM
I know two people who quit playing ARM because their newbie character was raped within 10 hours of creation.
Just sayin'...
I think I had at least three characters WTFpwned within ten hours of finding this game....
Being killed is a bit different than being raped, don't you think?
Quote from: Erythil on December 29, 2010, 09:21:05 PM
Quote from: Qzzrbl on December 29, 2010, 05:03:47 AM
Quote from: Erythil on December 29, 2010, 04:59:31 AM
I know two people who quit playing ARM because their newbie character was raped within 10 hours of creation.
Just sayin'...
I think I had at least three characters WTFpwned within ten hours of finding this game....
Being killed is a bit different than being raped, don't you think?
I can indeed see why that would be off-putting. I've been playing for a while and still feel awkward around the consent rules...so soon after character creation of my first, I was probably experiencing the delights of terradin poisoning for the first time ... that was intense enough. Rape would not be good.
Quote from: Erythil on December 29, 2010, 09:21:05 PM
Quote from: Qzzrbl on December 29, 2010, 05:03:47 AM
Quote from: Erythil on December 29, 2010, 04:59:31 AM
I know two people who quit playing ARM because their newbie character was raped within 10 hours of creation.
Just sayin'...
I think I had at least three characters WTFpwned within ten hours of finding this game....
Being killed is a bit different than being raped, don't you think?
I think I'd prefer my character getting raped to killed, by quite a lot.
They're still alive and stuff that way.
Quote from: Erythil on December 29, 2010, 09:21:05 PM
Quote from: Qzzrbl on December 29, 2010, 05:03:47 AM
Quote from: Erythil on December 29, 2010, 04:59:31 AM
I know two people who quit playing ARM because their newbie character was raped within 10 hours of creation.
Just sayin'...
I think I had at least three characters WTFpwned within ten hours of finding this game....
Being killed is a bit different than being raped, don't you think?
Oh.... I thought you meant like, raped... In the back....
With a knife.
But in that case, "consent" rules are there for a reason.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on December 30, 2010, 01:03:05 AM
Quote from: Erythil on December 29, 2010, 09:21:05 PM
Quote from: Qzzrbl on December 29, 2010, 05:03:47 AM
Quote from: Erythil on December 29, 2010, 04:59:31 AM
I know two people who quit playing ARM because their newbie character was raped within 10 hours of creation.
Just sayin'...
I think I had at least three characters WTFpwned within ten hours of finding this game....
Being killed is a bit different than being raped, don't you think?
Oh.... I thought you meant like, raped... In the back....
With a knife.
But in that case, "consent" rules are there for a reason.
Yeah, I thought that too.
but if someone doesn't reply OOC shouldn't one just lay off the molesting? but not the killing?
i remember being a new player and not knowing the Way commands or OOC or even tell.
i'd read about allanak, the say command, and the emote command, along with race and guild stuff before i started playing. this method of preparedness did NOT go far.
wondering: are there orgies in armageddon? like, official orgy parties held by the filthy rich or unwashed poor? reminiscient of the romans; would not surprise me.
Quote from: Cindy42 on December 31, 2010, 07:07:05 AM
Quote from: Qzzrbl on December 30, 2010, 01:03:05 AM
Quote from: Erythil on December 29, 2010, 09:21:05 PM
Quote from: Qzzrbl on December 29, 2010, 05:03:47 AM
Quote from: Erythil on December 29, 2010, 04:59:31 AM
I know two people who quit playing ARM because their newbie character was raped within 10 hours of creation.
Just sayin'...
I think I had at least three characters WTFpwned within ten hours of finding this game....
Being killed is a bit different than being raped, don't you think?
Oh.... I thought you meant like, raped... In the back....
With a knife.
But in that case, "consent" rules are there for a reason.
Yeah, I thought that too.
but if someone doesn't reply OOC shouldn't one just lay off the molesting? but not the killing?
Well, if someone romps along with the idea of raping -and- killing your character.... You, the player, can cut out the "rape" part out of it entirely by just typing, "ooc no dood, no raeps".
And if they don't stop, then report it to staff.
But the killing part?
It's very much a bitch move to kill another character because their player didn't consent to rape.
But if they'd planned on killing said character anyway.... Well....
It happens.
Quote from: Cindy42 on December 31, 2010, 07:07:05 AMi remember being a new player and not knowing the Way commands or OOC or even tell.
i'd read about allanak, the say command, and the emote command, along with race and guild stuff before i started playing. this method of preparedness did NOT go far.
Heh.... I remember poring over every helpfile and document for -days- before I finally got everything down. x]
I agree.... Things could be re-organized to make it easier for new players to catch on.
Quote from: Cindy42 on December 31, 2010, 07:07:05 AMwondering: are there orgies in armageddon? like, official orgy parties held by the filthy rich or unwashed poor? reminiscient of the romans; would not surprise me.
Find out IC. ;)
If you have no problem roleplaying a rape victim, then you probably aren't doing it right.
Quote from: Is Friday on December 31, 2010, 10:38:50 AMIf you have no problem roleplaying a rape victim, then you probably aren't doing it right.
No kidding. Rape victims have serious issues, and I don't think any of us (that haven't been raped) really can understand that one.
What those two gentlemen said.
All good lessons have endings. Yes, avoiding death is often good... except if newbie would be better off creating a new PC rather than having their current PC being subjected to more and more hardships for reason the player doesn't understand. That is, if Lady Sids can brutally "instruct" Newbie PC the error of his ways and then they both go on with life -- great, no need to kill Newbie PC. If, however, Lady Sids is simply going to continue to make life hard for Newbie PC or turn others against Newbie PC than the Player won't see it so much as a lesson but rather the game being too hard/non-fun.
As for the whole rape thing, I think it depends on the situation. In game, sex is sometimes used to gain power/favor or as legitimate business -- and PCs which take these views should have some understanding that rape is merely the flip-side of the coin to all that is profited by sex.
From the viewpoint of a total newbie:
Sorry for the Necropost, my toon is not a Necromancer.
This is my first character on Arm EVER, and the first time I have ever played this kind of MUD. Maybe many of you Veterans have forgotten what that is like? Even though I've played MUDs in the past this one is incredibly different, so much in fact that I have to take a moment to really applaud the design. From the first moments in the game I felt absolutely lost and vulnerable. I wandered around, had all my money stolen, and y'know I took it in good stride. The game is set up to be a brutal horrible place. I found the bar, played my smart-mouthy, belligerent character, got pummeled by Byn and it was FUN.
So far it's a good balance, OOC I've been given a lot of advice and reminders and I need it, it's a LOT to learn. However, IC I'm still being treated strictly and harshly and held accountable for my character's idiotic actions. I still have no idea how to earn money, or how to gain skill, or how to farm crafting materials and I'm not even sure my character has any friends.
And yet I've almost played this game for 48 hours straight, so there is something about the game. I am one of those newbs that will probably need a lot more coaching before I ever get a brain in my head and without a mentor this game has a terrible learning curb. If some incredibly vague stuff hadn't happened which should definitely not be quoted further down this post my very first character would be dead. I cannot express the importance of newbie mentoring, especially when they are just starting out and have absolutely no idea what they're doing.
Distrust was the only thing I didn't need to be taught, entirely because it is stated in every third doc. Am I the only one who was like this?
Quote from: Karieith on July 16, 2011, 03:37:37 AM
So please, be kind, and if you see <redacted by Tzurahro's GDB gnomes> feel free to train her and give her money ;)
I really hope you're not referring to someone who's alive in the game right now, that isn't allowed.
Quote from: Cind on July 16, 2011, 03:44:12 AM
Quote from: Karieith on July 16, 2011, 03:37:37 AM
tl;dr I'm a massive newbie who has no idea what I'm doing and needs to lurk more.
I really hope you're not referring to someone who's alive in the game right now, that isn't allowed.
I've edited mine, please edit yours. I am that brand new, thank you.
Content post: Some newbies are not as chill as this one (me) and may actually get their precious little feelings hurt, sob, cry, swear vendettas, drama up the forums and game with their angst. Fun stuff that, I'm pretty sure those types of player are better off NOT involved in the game, does that mean be righteous jerks and filter them out? Probably not, even though I'm all good, I'd Ideally I'd prefer patience and kindness, but y'know, I also want super powers so...
Quote from: Karieith on July 16, 2011, 04:03:17 AM
Quote from: Cind on July 16, 2011, 03:44:12 AM
Quote from: Karieith on July 16, 2011, 03:37:37 AM
tl;dr I'm a massive newbie who has no idea what I'm doing and needs to lurk more.
I really hope you're not referring to someone who's alive in the game right now, that isn't allowed.
I've edited mine, please edit yours. I am that brand new, thank you.
Content post: Some newbies are not as chill as this one (me) and may actually get their precious little feelings hurt, sob, cry, swear vendettas, drama up the forums and game with their angst. Fun stuff that, I'm pretty sure those types of player are better off NOT involved in the game, does that mean be righteous jerks and filter them out? Probably not, even though I'm all good, I'd Ideally I'd prefer patience and kindness, but y'know, I also want super powers so...
Hai there new player! :D
Good to see ya, and hope you're enjoying your stay! ;D
If you're thinking you might need to hit up a mentor or somesuch, might I re-direct you to this here link: http://www.armageddon.org/intro/helpers.php
These people will help you learn the game, and hopefully set you up with an intravenous line of Crackageddon.
Someone willing to play a dwarven female! Fuck yes!
Tell your friends. I was sad the Dwarven Female thread got locked. TO AVOID SUCH A FATE HERE.
Best way to keep new players around is not to kill them, or sodomize them (I put the O my! in sodomy by the way) though I hear rape is the raider handshake. But, rather, role-play with them, a lot of new players haven't even felt their characters out yet and just need that interaction with others to really help them piece together their concept.
Welcome to the game.
Sleep well.
Most likely kill you in the morning.
Quote from: musashi on July 16, 2011, 08:00:01 AM
Welcome to the game.
Sleep well.
Most likely kill you in the morning.
dibs on the boots.
Quote from: Marshmellow on December 31, 2010, 11:33:43 AM
Quote from: Is Friday on December 31, 2010, 10:38:50 AMIf you have no problem roleplaying a rape victim, then you probably aren't doing it right.
No kidding. Rape victims have serious issues, and I don't think any of us (that haven't been raped) really can understand that one.
Reactions to rape vary, a lot. If you put some thought into your RP, chances are it is a realistic reaction.
Tangent
Never mind. This needs it's own thread.
Hey! Welcome to Arm. You sound like you're going to do very well.
Also, if you are truly struggling OOCly, while you're trying to stay in character and interact with someone else, you -can- use the OOC command.
As long as it's not a pretty busy, intense scene going on, it's very likely whoever you're interacting with, will be happy to pause the RP and help you with syntax, or point you in the direction of a help file, or explain that having a sword in your inventory won't have the same impact as actually wielding the sword, which is why your character got SO badly wtfpwned by the tregil. :o
If it's an intense scene going on, or there's a lot of people interacting, it would probably be most beneficial to -you- to remove your character from the scene so you can check the help files uninterrupted. Unless of course the scene is intense because a templar is questioning you about something. IN a case like that, the only thing you really -can- do, is use the ooc command to just let them know you're a clueless noob and need direction. And hope their players will RP the scene out in a way that explains ICly, what's going on, and why so that you will learn OOCly, what to expect when these things happen.
Quote from: Barzalene on July 16, 2011, 09:27:11 AM
Tangent
Never mind. This needs it's own thread.
Hey! Welcome to Arm. You sound like you're going to do very well.
Good advice from Lizzie again.
Targeting New Players to take advantage of their Code Ignorance - Stomp-able Offense. Unfair.
Treating New Players as Normal - Recommended. Fair.
When screwing over a New Player, do it just the same as with any other player.... except slower perhaps to demonstrate the exact techniques and reasons in the world-sense for their boning.
I need your clothes, your boots and your war beetle.
Quote from: Karieith on July 16, 2011, 04:03:17 AM
Quote from: Cind on July 16, 2011, 03:44:12 AM
Quote from: Karieith on July 16, 2011, 03:37:37 AM
tl;dr I'm a massive newbie who has no idea what I'm doing and needs to lurk more.
I really hope you're not referring to someone who's alive in the game right now, that isn't allowed.
I've edited mine, please edit yours. I am that brand new, thank you.
Content post: Some newbies are not as chill as this one (me) and may actually get their precious little feelings hurt, sob, cry, swear vendettas, drama up the forums and game with their angst. Fun stuff that, I'm pretty sure those types of player are better off NOT involved in the game, does that mean be righteous jerks and filter them out? Probably not, even though I'm all good, I'd Ideally I'd prefer patience and kindness, but y'know, I also want super powers so...
Yeesh, sorry. I'm actually quite nice compared to most Arm players, and I wasn't trying to be mean at all---- you'll see what I mean by the end of the month.
See how no one came to defend either of us?
Again, you'll see by the end of the month. :)
Hehe, someone thought I was being mean :D I find that funny.
What Lizzie said.
Also, shoot me a PM if you have any questions I can help with, or if you have several questions for me or one of the other Helpers, here is a link to our helperchat: http://www.armageddon.org/intro/helpers.php (http://www.armageddon.org/intro/helpers.php)
If there isn't anyone on Helperchat, feel free to PM me with a suitable time and I'll try my best to be available. This offer also applies to everyone.
Quote from: Cind on July 16, 2011, 05:20:01 PM
Quote from: Karieith on July 16, 2011, 04:03:17 AM
Quote from: Cind on July 16, 2011, 03:44:12 AM
Quote from: Karieith on July 16, 2011, 03:37:37 AM
tl;dr I'm a massive newbie who has no idea what I'm doing and needs to lurk more.
I really hope you're not referring to someone who's alive in the game right now, that isn't allowed.
I've edited mine, please edit yours. I am that brand new, thank you.
Content post: Some newbies are not as chill as this one (me) and may actually get their precious little feelings hurt, sob, cry, swear vendettas, drama up the forums and game with their angst. Fun stuff that, I'm pretty sure those types of player are better off NOT involved in the game, does that mean be righteous jerks and filter them out? Probably not, even though I'm all good, I'd Ideally I'd prefer patience and kindness, but y'know, I also want super powers so...
Yeesh, sorry. I'm actually quite nice compared to most Arm players, and I wasn't trying to be mean at all---- you'll see what I mean by the end of the month.
See how no one came to defend either of us?
Again, you'll see by the end of the month. :)
Hehe, someone thought I was being mean :D I find that funny.
Another tip, don't complain about the violation of female sex rights. It doesn't matter what the subject is. Just don't. You don't want someone to call you an attention whore for complaining about it on the complaints thread and then follow your conversations on the board, trying to start arguments with you. But I think that's pretty much the worst that can happen. Aardwolf is so bad with that that i stopped playing there.
And if anyone says gays do not deserve to be equal, I will outright attack them viciously should I see it, so there's that, there.
Gays do not deserve to be equal. Some are better than others.
Quote from: lordcooper on July 16, 2011, 09:42:40 PM
Gays do not deserve to be equal. Some are better than others.
you people are cracking me up today!
My PC isn't gay. Can he/she still be equal?
Quote from: BleakOne on July 16, 2011, 10:15:42 PM
My PC isn't gay. Can he/she still be equal?
It depends, how equal would you like them to be?
Quote from: lordcooper on July 16, 2011, 10:17:46 PM
Quote from: BleakOne on July 16, 2011, 10:15:42 PM
My PC isn't gay. Can he/she still be equal?
It depends, how equal would you like them to be?
More equal than others.
Are the new players gaymen?
Quit derailing.
The way I see it, by killing new players and taking there coin you're actually helping to toughen them up and getting them into the right mindset. 8)
I too like to kill new players. First I like to message them on AIM, then you know, lull them into thinking I'm harmless. Then lure them to an APM or maybe if they live close enough out for coffee. Then I sap them and drag them into the bushes and slit their throats.
That'll teach em.
That's creepy Barz.
Us normal people just fly across the world to live in another Armer's house for a week or so, staying up late and creeping into other people's rooms after they've gone to sleep to watch them, and lick their faces.
Like I did to Mansa.
Yeah, but did he learn anything from that? I bet he slept right through it.
Being picked on as a newbie is what hooked me onto this game.
I've been playing for over 3 years and I'm still a newbie.
Quote from: Barzalene on July 21, 2011, 07:51:03 PM
I too like to kill new players. First I like to message them on AIM, then you know, lull them into thinking I'm harmless. Then lure them to an APM or maybe if they live close enough out for coffee. Then I sap them and drag them into the bushes and slit their throats.
That'll teach em.
I like your style.
I read the GDB before I started, so I was ABSOLUTELY PARANOID when I actually go into the game.
"OMG! That dude over there just whispered something to that person at the table! THEN THE WHISPEREE LOOKED AT ME!
IBETTERGOEXPLORING YESTHATISAGOODIDEA"
I lasted a few RL days before being killed by a mob, but a few more funny paranoid "HE'S GONNA STEAL MY (crappy newbie) STUFF!" things happened before that.
Quote from: Yoman on July 22, 2011, 11:38:07 AM
I read the GDB before I started, so I was ABSOLUTELY PARANOID when I actually go into the game.
Yeah, I think ARM players are actually a lot nicer than we
sound, and friendlier to newbies. The GDB is full of posturing.
Not including me, of course. As a staffer, it's my
job to terrorize you. But really, it hurts me more than it hurts you.
Quote from: Talia on July 22, 2011, 11:47:40 AM
Yeah, I think ARM players are actually a lot nicer than we sound, and friendlier to newbies. The GDB is full of posturing.
Not including me, of course. As a staffer, it's my job to terrorize you. But really, it hurts me more than it hurts you.
Until you die.
Then it hurts you more.
Back when I was a newbie, it seemed as though everyone was an equal opportunity newb-murderer. I'm of the opinion that death and re-application is a learning experience. A new player keeping their character for a year learns different things as opposed to a new player that dies every month or so, popping new characters in different places of all races, sizes, shapes, attitudes and affiliations.
I've lived it, and so I think that picking on new players if it's IC to do so is fair. Crush them utterly and they may just thank you later.
If there is an IC reason, within respectable limits, then I'm all for messing with the new players - that's part of the arm experience, afterall. They get some roleplay and "educated" in the way of how things work in Zalanthas and we get our own fair share of joy out of the experience (maybe it's just me but I enjoy helping new players out).
But if it's specifically targeting new players due to their lack of how the game works - Then you're just a dick.
It's as simple as that.
Gunnerblaster is wise
I've known an instance where a player acted as though they were a newbie to have an easier time, though they were not. The "newbies are hands-off" attitude then, can be metagamed, and that example is why I treat newbie characters much like I would any other character. Sure, I may be more inclined to give directions, or if asked to show a location like the bazaar, then sure. But extra special treatment isn't usually in the cards.
There are helpers for newbie players, a plethora of documentation, and generally the playerbase is willing to help a really new player out. Noobs have it good. One should only really pick on a Newbie once they have much better boots then you do, unless they pay you some footwear insurance.
A year+ ago I joined Arma and I joined Kurac. Gunnerblaster showed me some serious ropes within the game. I'm not going to say he made it so I would stay but just that he did what experienced players should do to help new players.
Someone new joins a clan, and they are clearly new, I would rather they faked it to get away with things and later be caught by staff as constantly faking being a newbie than have a real newbie be treated unfairly.
Kudos to Gunnerblaster.
There is a difference between treating a new player unfairly and treating their character unfairly. If it's in character, you're doing them a big disservice by not performing accordingly.