Poll
Question:
Should Maiden be taken off the approved nouns list?
Option 1: Yes
votes: 79
Option 2: No
votes: 27
A certain "approved" noun makes me cringe every time I see it...
It just seems so... un-Zalanthan.
Since all commoner women are unmarried, I find it just redundant and jarring.
QuoteNouns that are definitely okay to use in an sdesc
* adolescent
* amputee
* blond/blonde
* brunette
* brute
* crone
* female
* hag
* half-breed
* half-giant
* humanoid
* lad
* lass
* maiden
* male
* man
* midget
* mutant
* redhead
* teen
* teenager
* youth
* woman
Quote
Maiden
* Main Entry: 1maid·en
* Pronunciation: \ˈmā-dən\
* Function: noun
* Etymology: Middle English, from Old English mægden, mǣden, diminutive of mægeth; akin to Old High German magad maiden, Old Irish mug serf
* Date: before 12th century
1 : an unmarried girl or woman : maid
2 : a former Scottish beheading device resembling the guillotine
3 : a horse that has never won a race
It's also a colloquialism for a virgin (the 3rd definition - a horse that has never won a race - a woman who has never gotten past the "finish line" hehehehe nudge nudge wink wink)...which is something you can't tell by looking at someone externally.
To me, the inclusion of the word "maiden" in a sdesc feels too much like the player is trying to advertise that their character is "ripe for the plucking."
I miss "girl" and "boy"
Quote from: Lizzie on September 23, 2009, 12:47:28 PM
It's also a colloquialism for a virgin (the 3rd definition - a horse that has never won a race - a woman who has never gotten past the "finish line" hehehehe nudge nudge wink wink)...which is something you can't tell by looking at someone externally.
To me, the inclusion of the word "maiden" in a sdesc feels too much like the player is trying to advertise that their character is "ripe for the plucking."
Ugg... I'd forgotten that.. makes it even worse.
Quote from: mansa on September 23, 2009, 12:47:44 PM
I miss "girl" and "boy"
As do I. The spec apps (or overlooked regular apps) that have included them over the last year have been awesome. :D
I think "maiden" shouldn't be allowed and I think "breed" should be one that's okay to use.
I would have opted for an option of indifference.
That being said, I voted yes. Though I can't remember the last time I saw maiden in an sdesc it is a bit jarring.
Brandon
Yes. Maiden is not a synonym for "lass" or "girl-teen." I don't think we can even argue that there's a modern usage that way; when's the last time you heard someone called a maiden?
Quote from: Lizzie on September 23, 2009, 12:47:28 PM
It's also a colloquialism for a virgin
More than a colloquialism, I think. "A virgin" and "never married" are
obviously--as far as society is to be concerned--isomorphisms, unless we're speaking of, for instance, prostitutes (who've never ever, as far as I know, been referred to as maidens).
People who are indifferent just shouldn't vote. :D
As a side not, that would be an awesome option on a presidential ballot.
[ ] Obama
[ ] McCain
[ ] They are both undeserving pricks.
Quote
Maiden
* Main Entry: 1maid·en
* Pronunciation: \ˈmā-dən\
* Function: noun
* Etymology: Middle English, from Old English mægden, mǣden, diminutive of mægeth; akin to Old High German magad maiden, Old Irish mug serf
* Date: before 12th century
1 : an unmarried girl or woman : maid
2 : a former Scottish beheading device resembling the guillotine
3 : a horse that has never won a race
Bolded the part that makes it Zalanthan. Be very afraid when you see the tressy-tressed maiden next time!
(http://scienceblogs.com/omnibrain/TortureDevices-e.jpg)
SIX! SIX SIX! THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST!
Brandon
Quote2 : a former Scottish beheading device resembling the guillotine
So does that make our maiden a "present American" beheading device resembling the guillotine?
Or, the present Scottish re-heading device resembling the guillotine?
Or, has our maiden retired completely from the heading/beheading business, and is now relaxing in a bog somewhere, eating finger sandwiches and drinking tea?
Or! Is it still a Scottish beheading device, but it no longer resembles the guillotine?
WHAT MEANS THIS????
The use of the word "former" in this definition greatly influences the definition's Zalanthanization.
odd urge: app the iron-tressed maiden
Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 23, 2009, 01:15:29 PM
odd urge: app the iron-tressed maiden
Name: Noel
> wish all I'd like a pair of tube socks, please. This is crucial to my character concept.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on September 23, 2009, 12:41:58 PM
A certain "approved" noun makes me cringe every time I see it...
It just seems so... un-Zalanthan.
Since all commoner women are unmarried, I find it just redundant and jarring.
Agree with original post. I think that maiden slips through because it's cute. I notice that cute tends to slip through the filters.
When I see it, I just assume they're using another word for woman, so it doesn't bother me.
Heh, I think that if "maiden" is okay then "dude" should be okay. The scruffy-haired, bearded dude.
Quote from: Lizzie on September 23, 2009, 12:47:28 PM
It's also a colloquialism for a virgin (the 3rd definition - a horse that has never won a race - a woman who has never gotten past the "finish line" hehehehe nudge nudge wink wink)...which is something you can't tell by looking at someone externally.
To me, the inclusion of the word "maiden" in a sdesc feels too much like the player is trying to advertise that their character is "ripe for the plucking."
Quote from: FuSoYa on September 23, 2009, 12:58:42 PM
the last time I saw maiden in an sdesc it is a bit jarring.
Quote from: brytta.leofa on September 23, 2009, 12:59:17 PM
Yes. Maiden is not a synonym for "lass" or "girl-teen." I don't think we can even argue that there's a modern usage that way; when's the last time you heard someone called a maiden?
Quote from: Lizzie on September 23, 2009, 12:47:28 PM
It's also a colloquialism for a virgin
More than a colloquialism, I think. "A virgin" and "never married" are obviously--as far as society is to be concerned--isomorphisms, unless we're speaking of, for instance, prostitutes (who've never ever, as far as I know, been referred to as maidens).
All this. Especially when the maiden is known to sleep around or has a kid. When you have a kid you're not a maiden any more, maid if anything... but neither term fits Zalanthas, in my opinion.
what dude is not okay???
Clearly we just need the assess command to do one more thing, then this can fit Zalanthas (codedly).
Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 23, 2009, 01:41:34 PM
Clearly we just need the assess command to do one more thing, then this can fit Zalanthas (codedly).
That's a real dang-jurious path to, ah, go down. There'd be no end to th'
other coded commands nee-cessitated.
I don't mind maiden. It's just another word for young woman to me, like early-teens.
The iron-tressed maiden is here, acting insouciant.
> assess -v maiden
You notice her hyphen is intact.
That's what I meant, brytta! Sheesh!
Quote from: Lizzie on September 23, 2009, 01:14:18 PM
Quote2 : a former Scottish beheading device resembling the guillotine
So does that make our maiden a "present American" beheading device resembling the guillotine?
Or, the present Scottish re-heading device resembling the guillotine?
Or, has our maiden retired completely from the heading/beheading business, and is now relaxing in a bog somewhere, eating finger sandwiches and drinking tea?
Or! Is it still a Scottish beheading device, but it no longer resembles the guillotine?
WHAT MEANS THIS????
The use of the word "former" in this definition greatly influences the definition's Zalanthanization.
Lizzie, you made my day. ;D
Let's just keep maiden and add more words to go along with the level of promiscuity.
Slut,
Playa,
Pimp,
Milf,
<enter your favorite>
And to try to add something substantive to the discussion . . .
I'm kind of with Zoltan on this one, although I can clearly see the concerns of the "Remove it!" side - and strictly speaking, y'all are probably right as far as technical definition, not being able to assess (or even assess -v ;)) virginal status, etc. I guess it's part of my personal philosophy of "maximum choice/variety". Those of you who have rp'ed with me might have noticed I play fast-and-easy with emotes sometimes, sacrificing absolute objectivity to drive home a point or (hopefully) enhance a poignant moment. To the best of my knowledge, I've never "power emoted" anyone, and hope no one has experienced my play-style as such.
I think "maiden" should stay in, for the same reason I think "breed" has a place in the game, as do several other "forbidden" nouns: as long as each adds another way for folks to express their creativity, and/or to shade their sdesc to be exactly right, they have value. (Mansa, I'd really like "girl" and "boy" to be in as well, but I wonder if there might not be some lurking legal issue about that? I'd have to dig to see if this has been articulated before, but something's in my head saying it has.)
I don't really have an opinion one way or another on whether maiden should be in or out. I believe it connotes some things that I would never, ever apply to any PC of mine, thus I'll never use it; but you'll never see a PC of mine desced as having a "pert nose" either, and that's perfectly acceptable to do (which it should be).
Mostly what I'm saying is that though I'm personally prejudiced in a particular way against the use of the word, I'm OK with others using it, and it's likely that I'll give a PC sdesced as "maiden" a fair chance of winning my attention and interest.
Breed, however, should definitely be in. It makes no sense that it is not in.
Quote from: Zoltan on September 23, 2009, 02:05:02 PM
I don't mind maiden. It's just another word for young woman to me, like early-teens.
It's not that I mean to insist on archaic meanings, guys, really. I just don't know where y'all are getting
this meaning for the word.
There's never been a time when maiden meant "young woman." A maiden could just as well be aged.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 23, 2009, 02:14:46 PM
The iron-tressed maiden is here, acting insouciant.
> assess -v maiden
You notice her hyphen is intact.
Must have a chance to be slapped.
I've always found maiden jarring. Not sure why girl/boy was removed... ???
Quote from: Fnord on September 23, 2009, 03:18:30 PM
I've always found maiden jarring. Not sure why girl/boy was removed... ???
I think it had something to do with people using it to seem "innocent" from an OOC perspective.
"it's just a kid.. I can trust him..."
The boy with short cropped hair plants a dagger in the center of your spine!
You reel from the blow!
Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 23, 2009, 02:14:46 PM
The iron-tressed maiden is here, acting insouciant.
> assess -v maiden
You notice her hyphen is intact.
Hahahahahahah. This thread rules.
Quote from: Ourla on September 23, 2009, 03:45:08 PM
Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 23, 2009, 02:14:46 PM
The iron-tressed maiden is here, acting insouciant.
> assess -v maiden
You notice her hyphen is intact.
Hahahahahahah. This thread rules.
That made my morning as well. :D
Quote from: Bluefae on September 23, 2009, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: Lizzie on September 23, 2009, 01:14:18 PM
Quote2 : a former Scottish beheading device resembling the guillotine
So does that make our maiden a "present American" beheading device resembling the guillotine?
Or, the present Scottishre-heading device resembling the guillotine?
Or, has our maiden retired completely from the heading/beheading business, and is now relaxing in a bog somewhere, eating finger sandwiches and drinking tea?
Or! Is it still a Scottish beheading device, but it no longer resembles the guillotine?
WHAT MEANS THIS????
The use of the word "former" in this definition greatly influences the definition's Zalanthanization.
Lizzie, you made my day. ;D
Is reheading the inverse of beheading?
Quote from: Lizzie on September 23, 2009, 01:14:18 PM
Quote2 : a former Scottish beheading device resembling the guillotine
So does that make our maiden a "present American" beheading device resembling the guillotine?
Or, the present Scottish re-heading device resembling the guillotine?
Or, has our maiden retired completely from the heading/beheading business, and is now relaxing in a bog somewhere, eating finger sandwiches and drinking tea?
Or! Is it still a Scottish beheading device, but it no longer resembles the guillotine?
WHAT MEANS THIS????
The use of the word "former" in this definition greatly influences the definition's Zalanthanization.
It could be more than one at the same time.
Quote from: Angela Christine on November 21, 2004, 12:56:20 AM
Quote from: cyberpatrol_735I'm going to be the one to ruin your lunch/supper/etc..
Did a little lookup of the middle word since we all know what the first word and the last word are.. (we hope you do)
Quote
dentate
\Den"tate\, Dentated \Den"ta*ted\, a. [L. dentatus, fr. dens, dentis, tooth.] 1. (Bot.) Toothed; especially, with the teeth projecting straight out, not pointed either forward or backward; as, a dentate leaf.
Creepy.. There's your answer.
Not so fast, the combined phrase yields much more amusing results.
This one is pretty tame, from famous Dr. Dean Edel:
http://www.healthcentral.com/DrDean/Deanfulltexttopics.cfm?ID=13198
This one is more comprehensive and includes some major dissing of Freud, but may not be safe for work or around parents:
http://www.rotten.com/library/sex/vagina-dentata/
If you want to see the history of the concept on the GDB, do a search for "dentata". It has come up more often than one might expect.
If you want to be scarred for life, do a google image search for "vagina dentata" but don't blame me if you feel the need to poke your eyes out afterwards.
Nature's chastity belt!
AC
Quote from: Lizzie on September 23, 2009, 01:14:18 PM
Quote2 : a former Scottish beheading device resembling the guillotine
So does that make our maiden a "present American" beheading device resembling the guillotine?
Or, the present Scottish re-heading device resembling the guillotine?
Or, has our maiden retired completely from the heading/beheading business, and is now relaxing in a bog somewhere, eating finger sandwiches and drinking tea?
Or! Is it still a Scottish beheading device, but it no longer resembles the guillotine?
WHAT MEANS THIS????
The use of the word "former" in this definition greatly influences the definition's Zalanthanization.
Holy crap. I've read this post like four times and it just gets better and better.
I'm in the "ditch it" crowd. It's jarring and irksome to see ingame.
Also, as I've said about a million times before, "girl" and "boy" should be okay as long as they have the appropriate modifier. Since our PCs have to start at 14 or over, just make it "teenage girl" or "teenage boy." You can't claim PCs who specifically state their character is a teenager are trying to give an impression of childish innocence, can you?
Besides, the current alternatives are awful. "female teen", "teenage woman", "female youth",? Ew. I think there's a definite gap between preteen and "young woman" and I wish there was a non-androgynous way to do it that didn't sound freaking stupid.
I don't think it's terrible. It gives said character a color of someone a little more fresh-faced and less haggard by the words.
Quote from: Adieren on September 23, 2009, 10:39:05 PM
I don't think it's terrible. It gives said character a color of someone a little more fresh-faced and less haggard by the words.
Zalanthan commoners should be less fresh and more haggard than the current average PC.
Quote from: Adieren on September 23, 2009, 10:39:05 PM
I don't think it's terrible. It gives said character a color of someone a little more fresh-faced and less haggard by the words.
I love my PCs haggard though! :-*
Brandon
Actually it gives a character a color of someone a little more fresh-crotched, not fresh-faced. And - remember kids, there are no tampons or disposable sanitary napkins in Zalanthas. Or toilet paper. Or laundry detergent, or fabric softener. You're using raw bolts of woven cloth to wipe your ass, IF you can afford it. If you can't, you're lucky if you wipe your ass at all and don't just scrape sand on your butt to get rid of the soiling. If you're female and menstruating, you're -probably- either wadded up with cloth or leaves, OR bleeding down your pretty white new silk leggings.
Maiden is a word that just plain doesn't belong in Zalanthas, unless it's applying to a chaste, unwed, virginal noble female.
This is kinda a moot arguement, and I'm not going to get upset because some people don't like it. It might be the case that the people who use it, think it applied at the time that the character was made. This may change eventually, but personally, I'd not go out and use one of my description changes because some people don't like it because they take it at a different connotation.
Quote from: Lizzie on September 23, 2009, 10:45:04 PM
Actually it gives a character a color of someone a little more fresh-crotched, not fresh-faced. And - remember kids, there are no tampons or disposable sanitary napkins in Zalanthas. Or toilet paper. Or laundry detergent, or fabric softener. You're using raw bolts of woven cloth to wipe your ass, IF you can afford it. If you can't, you're lucky if you wipe your ass at all and don't just scrape sand on your butt to get rid of the soiling. If you're female and menstruating, you're -probably- either wadded up with cloth or leaves, OR bleeding down your pretty white new silk leggings.
Maiden is a word that just plain doesn't belong in Zalanthas, unless it's applying to a chaste, unwed, virginal noble female.
Fresh-crotched? Remind me what's that's like again?
Does this mean I'm getting old?
Brandon
Quote from: Lizzie on September 23, 2009, 10:45:04 PM
Actually it gives a character a color of someone a little more fresh-crotched, not fresh-faced. And - remember kids, there are no tampons or disposable sanitary napkins in Zalanthas. Or toilet paper. Or laundry detergent, or fabric softener. You're using raw bolts of woven cloth to wipe your ass, IF you can afford it. If you can't, you're lucky if you wipe your ass at all and don't just scrape sand on your butt to get rid of the soiling. If you're female and menstruating, you're -probably- either wadded up with cloth or leaves, OR bleeding down your pretty white new silk leggings.
Maiden is a word that just plain doesn't belong in Zalanthas, unless it's applying to a chaste, unwed, virginal noble female.
Bleeding is a lot of water lost. I wonder if female zalanthans have adapted out of this.
Quote from: KankWhisperer on September 23, 2009, 11:15:00 PM
Quote from: Lizzie on September 23, 2009, 10:45:04 PM
Actually it gives a character a color of someone a little more fresh-crotched, not fresh-faced. And - remember kids, there are no tampons or disposable sanitary napkins in Zalanthas. Or toilet paper. Or laundry detergent, or fabric softener. You're using raw bolts of woven cloth to wipe your ass, IF you can afford it. If you can't, you're lucky if you wipe your ass at all and don't just scrape sand on your butt to get rid of the soiling. If you're female and menstruating, you're -probably- either wadded up with cloth or leaves, OR bleeding down your pretty white new silk leggings.
Maiden is a word that just plain doesn't belong in Zalanthas, unless it's applying to a chaste, unwed, virginal noble female.
Bleeding is a lot of water lost. I wonder if female zalanthans have adapted out of this.
Eww- I just thought of Dune, and their water recycling stillsuits.. They never mentioned that part..
Quote from: Lizzie on September 23, 2009, 10:45:04 PM
Actually it gives a character a color of someone a little more fresh-crotched, not fresh-faced. And - remember kids, there are no tampons or disposable sanitary napkins in Zalanthas. Or toilet paper. Or laundry detergent, or fabric softener. You're using raw bolts of woven cloth to wipe your ass, IF you can afford it. If you can't, you're lucky if you wipe your ass at all and don't just scrape sand on your butt to get rid of the soiling. If you're female and menstruating, you're -probably- either wadded up with cloth or leaves, OR bleeding down your pretty white new silk leggings.
Maiden is a word that just plain doesn't belong in Zalanthas, unless it's applying to a chaste, unwed, virginal noble female.
toilet paper (n): see
elf
Gimpkapons, for when you're feeling...you know, not so fresh.
Quote from: Aaron Goulet on September 24, 2009, 02:00:23 AM
Quote from: Lizzie on September 23, 2009, 10:45:04 PM
Actually it gives a character a color of someone a little more fresh-crotched, not fresh-faced. And - remember kids, there are no tampons or disposable sanitary napkins in Zalanthas. Or toilet paper. Or laundry detergent, or fabric softener. You're using raw bolts of woven cloth to wipe your ass, IF you can afford it. If you can't, you're lucky if you wipe your ass at all and don't just scrape sand on your butt to get rid of the soiling. If you're female and menstruating, you're -probably- either wadded up with cloth or leaves, OR bleeding down your pretty white new silk leggings.
Maiden is a word that just plain doesn't belong in Zalanthas, unless it's applying to a chaste, unwed, virginal noble female.
toilet paper (n): see elf
lol
An "approved nouns list" makes me cringe whenever I see it. FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
Seriously though, would you want the green eyed, pixie-haired dudette walking around?
Quote from: Northlander on September 24, 2009, 07:08:15 AM
An "approved nouns list" makes me cringe whenever I see it. FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
If everyone had complete creative freedom, we would have no consistency, and without consistency, we would have CHAOS.
Okay, so I'm exaggerating, but I think some people take short descriptions a little too far already. Simple is good.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on September 24, 2009, 07:12:36 AM
Seriously though, would you want the green eyed, pixie-haired dudette walking around?
Is she hot?
How about an approved adjective list? I know several that make me think of entirely un-Zalanthan things and this time I'm not even talking about sex.
What about adjectives and nouns that describe traits, not physical features. The hip, chill frood.
I don't care one way or the other about "maiden". It's been used before several times, I've seen it, and my PCs just treated the maidens the same as everyone else.
There are some adjectives that describe traits and physical features. Graceful (describing grace, as well as physical features that tend to lend someone grace) and stout (describing boldness and bravery, as well as strength or bulkiness) are examples of this. Some are more objective than others - I imagine that there are so many that it would be hard to make a list of which are okay and which aren't.
No. But maiden doesn't bother me at all.
I want to be a harridan. And a dame. And a witch. And a shrew. And a temptress.
And why can't we have boy and girl back? =/
........Get rid of it........
How about "the old, busty madame"?
The salty old silt sea-dog.
I voted no. Just because.
A stinky, ancient maiden is here, skulking around.
Granted, you probably won't use it. But how about if you ass -v maiden?
A young, olive-skinned man ass -vs a young, maiden.
She is alot older than you.
??? ??? ???
Old maid?
I want to play a dowager.
the recently-penetrated, ex-maiden
the man with the huge dong is here, pantsless
50 for (78.1%)
15 against
gotta love those numbers :D
Quote from: MarshallDFX on September 24, 2009, 12:56:22 AM
Quote from: KankWhisperer on September 23, 2009, 11:15:00 PM
Quote from: Lizzie on September 23, 2009, 10:45:04 PM
Actually it gives a character a color of someone a little more fresh-crotched, not fresh-faced. And - remember kids, there are no tampons or disposable sanitary napkins in Zalanthas. Or toilet paper. Or laundry detergent, or fabric softener. You're using raw bolts of woven cloth to wipe your ass, IF you can afford it. If you can't, you're lucky if you wipe your ass at all and don't just scrape sand on your butt to get rid of the soiling. If you're female and menstruating, you're -probably- either wadded up with cloth or leaves, OR bleeding down your pretty white new silk leggings.
Maiden is a word that just plain doesn't belong in Zalanthas, unless it's applying to a chaste, unwed, virginal noble female.
Bleeding is a lot of water lost. I wonder if female zalanthans have adapted out of this.
Eww- I just thought of Dune, and their water recycling stillsuits.. They never mentioned that part..
Heh, Never did go into how Chani got over those problems, did it....or Alia for that matter.........
That would have been handled by the waste handlers that is specifically mentioned collected in thigh-pouches, I believe.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on September 23, 2009, 01:00:41 PM
People who are indifferent just shouldn't vote. :D
As a side not, that would be an awesome option on a presidential ballot.
[ ] Obama
[ ] McCain
[ ] They are both undeserving pricks.
As a quick derail, I would have been very happy if the ballot had been:
[] Obama/Biden
[] McCain/Palin
[] Obama
[] McCain
Returning to topic: Maiden is alright, I suppose, but I often use it to refer to virginity, which is a hard thing to note from a casual glance, and certainly wouldn't last long on Zalanthas. Played a boy maiden once, but that didn't last long because his tribe mate was a whore. ;)
I don't like maiden personally because there's very little which can be said, linguistically, to defend its use as part of an sdesc. But it's been around so long and exists both among PCs and NPCs (past and present) that we might as well assume in ArmageddonMUD it has its own definition: a girl, a young woman, etc.
At this point, just keep it, I say.
...but I still think boy and girl should be allowed back on the accepted list.
From what I understand, 'mutant' is no longer okay to use. Additionally, why isn't 'human' on that list?
The 'approved nouns' list always seemed pretty arbitrary to me.
Brute? Crone??? HAG???????
What is the male version of maiden? I want to be that with my next character.
Instead of maiden, we should just use colt and filly.
Who's up for playing a 'gelding' ?
Quote from: Malken on December 10, 2009, 12:54:13 AM
What is the male version of maiden? I want to be that with my next character.
I'm just going to go with "menmaiden" as a word.
the tall, muscular menmaiden.
I always figured "youth" was more or less the male version of "maiden" since youth is often used to describe a young male. Lad would probably do it too.
Quote from: Malken on December 10, 2009, 12:54:13 AM
What is the male version of maiden? I want to be that with my next character.
Most accurately, probably "virgin bachelor".
Quote from: Salt Merchant on December 10, 2009, 06:42:25 AM
Quote from: Malken on December 10, 2009, 12:54:13 AM
What is the male version of maiden? I want to be that with my next character.
Most accurately, probably "virgin bachelor".
The tall muscular virgin bachelor has arrived from the north.
A prostitute has arrived from the north.
At a bar, the tall muscular man says in sirish: "Hay....he's no virigin!"
Quote from: Malken on December 10, 2009, 12:54:13 AM
What is the male version of maiden? I want to be that with my next character.
I'm afraid the real answer is that male virginity has never had enough cultural significance to warrant its own word.
Except, apparently, in Czechoslovakia.
Quote from: brytta.leofa on December 10, 2009, 12:31:25 PM
Except, apparently, in Czechoslovakia.
I can't remember whose username that is! What's the word again?
Quote from: Gimfalisette on December 10, 2009, 12:42:43 PM
Quote from: brytta.leofa on December 10, 2009, 12:31:25 PM
Except, apparently, in Czechoslovakia.
I can't remember whose username that is! What's the word again?
Here we go:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/panic#Czech (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/panic#Czech)
the young, toussle-headed panic
Quote from: brytta.leofa on December 10, 2009, 12:57:46 PM
Here we go:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/panic#Czech (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/panic#Czech)
That's right! It was one of our Czech players who chuckled about that here on the forums.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on December 10, 2009, 01:25:08 PM
That's right! It was one of our Czech players who chuckled about that here on the forums.
Yam, I think.
Yam is totally not Czech! :P It may have been Elgiva, or um...that other cool guy whose username I don't remember now and who I haven't seen around in a while.
QuoteExcept, apparently, in Czechoslovakia.
No such country, mate.
I know, I'm a terrible derailer. Still. It had to be said.
It was Elgiva. :)
Quote from: Pantoufle on December 10, 2009, 02:07:47 PM
QuoteExcept, apparently, in Czechoslovakia.
No such country, mate.
I know, I'm a terrible derailer. Still. It had to be said.
Uh, not really.
From the OED (You down with OED? Ya, you know me!):
QuoteBoth maid and maiden, from the earliest records onwards, seem to have had the competing senses of 'young female' and 'virgin (of any age)'. Because of this ambiguity, they have tended to be replaced in the sense 'young female' by words such as girl and periphrastic uses such as young lady and young woman. Consequently, both words have generally been more commonly used in the sense of 'virgin': maid now principally in the compound OLD MAID n., maiden in a large number of compound and adjectival uses. A third major sense 'servant' was also taken over from maiden by maid, in which it has had greater currency, partly perhaps because of the large number of compounds such as CHAMBERMAID n., HOUSEMAID n., and NURSEMAID n. Except in this specific sense, maid has never developed the variety of adjectival and compound uses found for maiden, even though the use of the uncompounded words shows an almost complete semantic overlap in the early period.
I love it when we talk about this. Maiden is stupid.
I too still want boy and girl back in sdescs. If people are too trusting of the young, then they clearly aren't getting the game. But they would..soon enough.
Quote from: path on December 26, 2009, 09:16:27 PM
I love it when we talk about this. Maiden is stupid.
I too still want boy and girl back in sdescs. If people are too trusting of the young, then they clearly aren't getting the game. But they would..soon enough.
I doubt the restriction was instituted to curb thievery, so much as pedophilia.
It was, in the words of Sanvean, to curb people playing eight-year-old sorcerers who expected clemency from other PCs because they were so youuuung and didn't know what they were dooooing.
Quote from: Wasteland Raider on December 26, 2009, 09:42:00 PM
It was, in the words of Sanvean, to curb people playing eight-year-old sorcerers who expected clemency from other PCs because they were so youuuung and didn't know what they were dooooing.
So...why don't they just reject the little girl sorcerer in the app process??
Quote from: Wasteland Raider on December 26, 2009, 09:42:00 PM
It was, in the words of Sanvean, to curb people playing eight-year-old sorcerers who expected clemency from other PCs because they were so youuuung and didn't know what they were dooooing.
Haha.
I would reason in exactly the opposite direction: if they rolled an eight-year old, they probably rolled
really shitty stats, but started with the same newbie coins as anyone else. That's what you call a Zalanthan free lunch.
I just figure "maiden" to be an extreme of a certain image you conjur up in your mind's eye. Same as "brute". It helps you vizualise certain characteristics about that PC/NPC. Same as mutant or breed. When I see a half-elf with "breed" in their sdesc I think of a mangy sort of half-elf. In any case..
This is what you get when you google image BRUTE:
(http://www.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Ravenloft/brute.jpg)
And this is what I got from maiden, when you exlcuse iron maiden and the porn:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_sp8kXJAeA0s/Sq-RfXAMd2I/AAAAAAAAAFE/i5JiZKpahoI/s400/fair+maiden.jpg)
(http://www.north-room.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/2009-08-01_9889-Edit-2.jpg)
Now. When you see a maiden sdesc. What are you going to see.. a "dainty young woman" perhaps. Or are you going to read out VIRGIN at the end? Just to be a d**che-c*ck in your mind? Just saying.
Well, when my wife thinks of maiden, she thinks of an upperclass woman from the middle ages.
Well we don't have to talk about appearances either. We use words that describe characteristics in our sdesc, maiden could be like one of those no? We have seen "effeminate", "brutish" and "diminutive" amongst dozen others that describe your characteristics as well as your appearance. Maiden could be one of those mix words. I don't understand the problem here, if someone wants to describe their character as a regal looking virgin with submissive tendencies, I think we should be all for it.
You can tell people are virgins by looking at them?
Those arn't appearance traits - they're character traits.
Quote from: Voular on December 27, 2009, 06:55:04 AM
Well we don't have to talk about appearances either. We use words that describe characteristics in our sdesc, maiden could be like one of those no? We have seen "effeminate", "brutish" and "diminutive" amongst dozen others that describe your characteristics as well as your appearance. Maiden could be one of those mix words. I don't understand the problem here, if someone wants to describe their character as a regal looking virgin with submissive tendencies, I think we should be all for it.
Well, I see no problems with brutish, diminutive, or effeminate because those describe physical traits. Let me use Beauty and the Beast to facilitate my thoughts.
Brutish- Resembling a beast. (The Beast from Beauty and the Beast was brutish because he looked like a cruel person, and he was cruel initially. It turns out he was just jaded.)
Diminutive- Small in size (Such as the father from Beauty and the Beast.)
Effeminate- Have female characteristics as a male (Gaston from Beauty and the Beast, what were those cup sizes? HHH? He had some huge hooters.).
Maidenly/maidenlike- Resembling a virgin in appearance with clean, unscarred skin, young, no rashes of the mouth, etc... (Those triplets from Beauty and the Beast because they looked like maidens, but we know they were not.)
I do see problems with:
Brute- A cruel person (Gaston from the Beauty and the Beast was a brute.)
Maiden- A maid, or virgin (Belle from Beauty and the Beast because she was young, didn't do hard labor, clean, unblemished skin)
The distinction lies in the –ish, –ly, or -like. You can resemble a maiden or a brute, but someone can't know you are a brute/maiden without knowing your personality and had a few extensive experiences with you.
That's a fair point. But again, we have a bunch of NPC and PCs titled differently simply for ease and flavour. Like "street-urchin", "soldier" or "Templar".. I don't think it should make you cringe when you see "the huge brute" step in. In part because we can't have sdesc that run over a certain length so "the huge and tall man draped in a red silken robe perhaps akin to the the one of a templar" isn't possible while "the huge, tall templar" is easier in terms of the game. Just saying that when I see "maiden" I can understand the thought behind picking that word. And things like effeminate and diminutive is not at all up to physical traits - Gaston was effeminate because of his mannerism not because of his huge chest (though I'd describe Gaston as "pampered").
Edit: I retract that about Gaston. He's the epitome of manliness:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhG9hKiplfQ
Fair response. Gaston fits those both versions of the same word accurately.
Just because they are currently the hot topic. What about in the cases of a female being a brute, or a male being a maiden? Entirely possible, but the words themselves can't distinguish between the two. What we can do is:
The long-armed, brutish woman
The short-haired, maidenly man
I don't care - if you can pull it off then sure. Same as "humanoid" or "mutant" or "zombie" or whatever. Just because I am a male, I am going to primarely think of "mutant" as a maleish mutant foremost. Or half-elf or human, they are also gender neutral. I suppose "the bearded, maidenly human" is not likely to be female, if I give it some thought..
I don't know. We play a text medium and to limit your imagination is just silly.
Exactly Voular. By having Maiden or Brute in an SDesc, it limits the imagination of the readers, much like how you think of most mutants as male and how I think of most brutes as a male and maidens as a female.
Well.. I was saying the opposite. Why not have brute or maiden? It evokes nice images and feelings. It's better than bland sdesc that tells us nothing about the character at all, except that he is tall and has big feet. An "over-all" describing word is better, I think.
That is easily understandable, but use of brute and maiden doesn't exactly explain anything. There are just too many ways to define those words. What I used to see a lot when I first started playing was that the player would use Brute to describe the overall appearance, and then say the color of hair, color of skin, color of eyes, and that is it. I wouldn't understand what made the PC a brute. Banishing words like those, force the player to define brute instead of forcing other players to assume that the PC just -is-.
Well, that's why we have an app process. Our imms look and approve these words. If "maiden" or "brute" isn't warranted, then they should deny the app?
We've a 75%+ majority among those who actually care enough to vote. That's pretty definitive.
This thread was started four months ago and it hasn't been changed yet - That's pretty definitive. Tell'm, Mick:
the sinewy, hyperactive old man sings "You can't always get what you want!"
Quote from: Voular on December 27, 2009, 02:48:09 PM
Well, that's why we have an app process. Our imms look and approve these words. If "maiden" or "brute" isn't warranted, then they should deny the app?
That's what is up for debate. I think the original purpose of this thread is to demonstrate that most of the playerbase finds the word "maiden" jarring, and to propose that it be removed from the approved sdesc words list.
Four pages later, whether it accomplishes that aim or not, it's hard to say.
Quote from: Spoon on December 27, 2009, 04:17:09 PM
This thread was started four months ago and it hasn't been changed yet - That's pretty definitive. Tell'm, Mick:
the sinewy, hyperactive old man sings "You can't always get what you want!"
Well, this democracy is restricted to those who actually do the work. Even then, I'm sure it's more a matter of consultation, as opposed to something resembling an actual democratic process. Beyond all that, I'd bet issues are examined from a perspective of triage. When it comes down to it, who really cares if someone feels the need to use such a narrow noun. Personally I think the restrictions should be loosened, rather than tightened. But more than that, I just don't care.
While concessions are occasionally made to the playerbase, this is the imm--
administration's game. They do what they want with it regardless of popular demand. Sometimes I feel at odds with some of their decisions, but the game is awesome, they've invested the sweat equity, and this gives them right.
What Ampere said. Wish I could fit that into my sig :-\
Quote from: Ampere on December 27, 2009, 04:38:24 PM
While concessions are occasionally made to the playerbase, this is the imm--administration's game. They do what they want with it regardless of popular demand. Sometimes I feel at odds with some of their decisions, but the game is awesome, they've invested the sweat equity, and this gives them right.
Having known in the past some of the people who had poured
countless hours into the improvement of this game? Without a doubt.
I still think that the overall purpose of this thread was to somehow demonstrate that this change was desired by most of us, in order to influence a similar discussion among the people who actually
do have a say in the matter. However, after reading the various arguments and counter-arguments, it really all boils down to it being a matter of perception and taste; hardly something worth possibly alienating 25.3% of the voting GDB population.
From what I see maiden specifies a unmarried woman, pretty much only on the grounds of age (hence the virgin thing). The problem I see is when that description contradicts or masks the PCs nature (like mutant dwarves). So after a certain age maiden should be substituted for another word. I'd like to see a PC go from maiden to woman to old hag.
I just don't think maiden fits with the gritty style and direction of the game. Maiden makes me think of SOI-style muds. It just doesn't feel right and this is speaking from experience, I've certainly played characters with maiden in the sdesc since 'girl' was taken out. I think chicks in particular get the short end with 'youth'.
Maiden just feels out of sync with the game world.
When I see the word "maiden" I automatically attach it to the word "maidenhead." Which is another word for hymen, which is the thing that virgins have until they're ripped by whoever (or whatever) makes them no longer a maiden.
Quote from: Lizzie on December 28, 2009, 09:43:14 AM
When I see the word "maiden" I automatically attach it to the word "maidenhead." Which is another word for hymen, which is the thing that virgins have until they're ripped by whoever (or whatever) makes them no longer a maiden.
Have I told you lately that I love you?
When I see the word maiden I think of an f-me pc. Nothing more, nothing less.
Quote from: musashi on December 28, 2009, 11:34:12 PM
When I see the word maiden I think of an f-me pc. Nothing more, nothing less.
mai immerzon ._. Seriously though...I don't have a problem with it. I think if you have a problem with the word maiden in a sdesc...You should just chop the motherfucker up with a bone sword.
Whoa, this thread's still alive?
maiden italy... err... made in Allanak... errr I mean Maiden Tuluk.
Don't use this forum to bitch about allowed sdesc words.
If you have a real issue mail mud and we'll consider it. Continuing to bitch is bad form and will be considered against the forum intentions.