Poll
Question:
When you wear a cloak, should it default to open or closed?
Option 1: open
votes: 44
Option 2: closed
votes: 25
Option 3: I don't care (a.k.a. My character doesn't wear clothes)
votes: 4
I will close this poll in 24 hours as I want to get this finished.
I am working on allowing cloaks to be open or closed to allow you to show what's underneath them. This will also impart a slight additional delay to draw/sheath if you leave your cloak closed.
If you consider what is in the game today, the current behavior acts as if everyone's cloaks are closed (you can't see the person's belt or what's on it).
In adding this, one way or the other needs to be the default. In my mind I can see both answers. Having it default to open seems more likely how you'd put on a cloak, the problem is to get today's behavior that everyone is used to, you have to do two commands, 'wear cloak; close cloak'. Having it default to close is the current standard behavior of cloaks, yet it will force you to open it to draw your weapons without delay.
On a related tangent, this code change will also add command emotes to the open and close commands.
Defaulting them to open makes sense to me. This is awesome.
Also, command emotes for open and close is awesome.
You are awesome.
That is just amazing. A lot of awesome things have been going in lately that we've been requesting for ages. I voted for open as default, because that's how it would be when you put it on and closing it would be an action, just as hoods are down when you don a cloak or robe.
Thanks, Morg!
I think the act of wearing a cloak makes them closed by default.
I voted for closed, because I would think that the fabric would naturally fall together to cover the midsection as it is now. But I love the idea of having them open and close-able.
PS: Thank you much, Morgenes for all the great changes to the code lately.
Would the delay for drawing your weapons be the CURRENT delay, or an even longer one?
Quote from: Morgenes on January 13, 2009, 02:36:41 PM
...This will also impart a slight additional delay to draw/sheath if you leave your cloak closed.
Oh. Hmm. I should read the Original Post.
Oh, and also, could some "about body" items be set to always open and not closable? I'm thinking things like tabards, capes, pelts, harnesses and bandoliers.
Yay! I saw this done on another mud years ago, very happy to have it implemented here.
Quote from: mansa on January 13, 2009, 02:43:59 PM
Would the delay for drawing your weapons be the CURRENT delay, or an even longer one?
This would be a delay in addition to the current delay.
Quote from: Good Gortok on January 13, 2009, 02:44:45 PM
Oh, and also, could some "about body" items be set to always open and not closable? I'm thinking things like tabards, capes, pelts, harnesses and bandoliers.
Yes, I will try and fix this while I'm at it.
I believe being set to closed would be best as everyone is familiar with that and those that want it open can then settle upon opening it in my thoughts.
Also.. Is this 'closed cloak' delay going be really noticeable? Or is it a minor add on to the current delay? I mean pushing fabric aside is not -that- much... may only take a couple extra seconds. Simply curious.
So would we really notice a huge or minor difference between the open and closed delay / no delay? From the current. ???
Quote from: Morgenes on January 13, 2009, 03:11:24 PM
Quote from: Good Gortok on January 13, 2009, 02:44:45 PM
Oh, and also, could some "about body" items be set to always open and not closable? I'm thinking things like tabards, capes, pelts, harnesses and bandoliers.
Yes, I will try and fix this while I'm at it.
That is awesome. 8)
Quote from: BlackMagic0 on January 13, 2009, 03:14:36 PM
Also.. Is this 'closed cloak' delay going be really noticeable? Or is it a minor add on to the current delay? I mean pushing fabric aside is not -that- much... may only take a couple extra seconds. Simply curious.
There will be other advantages granted for having your cloak closed that I'm not willing to discuss, that said it needs a penalty to go with it, and so forgetting to open your cloak before drawing/sheathing will incur a time penalty.
Quote from: BlackMagic0 on January 13, 2009, 03:14:36 PM
So would we really notice a huge or minor difference between the open and closed delay / no delay? From the current. ???
I'm hoping it'll be noticeable enough to make it something to consider, but not painful. It'll likely take some balancing to get right.
How will sheathed items worn as/on a belt be affected? (i.e. knives in knife sheaths)
What about sheathed items worn on a location not covered by the cloak, when it's closed?
Closed. You wear a cloak to protect yourself from the elements and from prying eyes, and the default behavior should be the most useful. In inherently dangerous environments (wilderness), you'll have weapons drawn anyway.
And a vile suggestion: give cloaks a 15% chance of silently closing themselves whenever you move from one "room" to the next.
Closed.
1) Because all cloaks are closed by default right now, even though we don't have the benifits that Morgenes is coding for them.
2) Because I'd rather have default protection from sneakies who don't have "Peek".
3) Because real fighters sheathe their weapons on their backs (Morgenes, please make sure that drawing from the back isn't messed up when cloaks are closed)
Quote from: brytta.leofa on January 13, 2009, 03:41:24 PM
And a vile suggestion: give cloaks a 15% chance of silently closing themselves whenever you move from one "room" to the next.
I wouldn't think this should always be an issue though. I mean, whats the reasoning here, if I may ask? Weather? If so, what about multi-room indoor areas? What about the rare times when there is no wind?
Quote from: a strange shadow on January 13, 2009, 03:40:53 PM
What about sheathed items worn on a location not covered by the cloak, when it's closed?
Seems like the cloak draw delay should be location-dependent:
Extra delay for weapons hung on belt, in belt-sheaths, quivers worn on waist, etc.
No extra delay for back, armsheaths, boots.
Agreed. I wanted to make sure it was being taken into consideration.
My character doesn't wear clothes, just because it was there. :)
Open.
When wearing a jacket or cloak, the act of closing requires further attention. I always imagined cloaks and the like to be "worn on the body" as the location says. If the need for further protection from elements or other is required, the wearer would button up and bundle up, so to speak.
That, and the fact that there's added delay when it's closed.
And who wears a closed up cloak except when necessary?
Has your character stepped outside of a tavern lately?
I voted for closed.
Mostly because that is the current default.
Also, Morg, I agree with Seph [and others that posted after him], that a large weapons sheathed on the back (presumably over the cloak since you can currently see them on a cloaked character) should be unaffected. Will this be the case?
Quote from: Prince Prig on January 13, 2009, 04:14:31 PM
If the need for further protection from elements or other is required, the wearer would button up and bundle up, so to speak.
I imagine otherwise: you flip the thing around your shoulders and fasten the clasp, then pull it back over your shoulders a bit if you want to show off your fancy shirt.
And remember, you
don't have to wear a cloak all the time. You don't lounge around indoors wearing a heavy jacket, do you? ;) (But this is complicated by the fact that the cloak itself is the de facto insignia for several clans, not least the 'nakki militia.)
Would it be possible/worthwhile to make belts wearable on the outside of cloaks since this is a real life possibility?
Also, I would think this would remove the open/closed option for cloaks once a belt was fastened around it, and it would be stuck the way it was before you put on the belt.
:o
Awesome.
Anyway, hmm, I'd have to say open. To me it seems analogous to hoods, which default to the least-concealing mode.
Will the inventory-view sdesc of the cloak change to reflect that it's open or closed? Like...
<worn about the body> An open, dark hooded cloak.
or
<worn about the body> A closed, dark hooded cloak.
?
Quote from: Marauder Moe on January 13, 2009, 04:30:35 PM
Will the inventory-view sdesc of the cloak change to reflect that it's open or closed? Like...
PLEASE!
I voted open by default.
When I put on a jacket or coat IRL, closing it, buttoning it, zipping it, etc., etc., etc., is step two, after getting it put on.
I say open for the benefit of noobs. A delay on drawing weapons will get a lot more of them killed. Also, no delay on drawing a weapon from the back, mm?
I love this though. Good going, Morg.
The only way I'd see closed as default is if the garment per say is meant to cover the entire body, such as desert garments and heavy overcoats and the like.
Aside from that, I think it should be a player's choice if they want the extra delay when drawing their weapons, as it has detriment to the fate of their character.
Went with open, since I should have to put effort into doing it up, like with buttons, zippers, etc. Besides...I need to get into the thing in the first place, so it has to be open.
Quote from: Kassindra on January 13, 2009, 05:00:21 PM
Went with open, since I should have to put effort into doing it up, like with buttons, zippers, etc. Besides...I need to get into the thing in the first place, so it has to be open.
I agree.
I think anything that has a code detriment with something as simple as wearing a cloak should be optional, not forced. The helpfiles should also be adjusted accordingly.
I think the cloaks should be open, and closing them should be an option.
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on January 13, 2009, 04:52:03 PM
I say open for the benefit of noobs. A delay on drawing weapons will get a lot more of them killed. Also, no delay on drawing a weapon from the back, mm?
I love this though. Good going, Morg.
Also agree with 7DV about no delay on the back draw.
Very cool, Morgenes.
There won't be any change to delays for items sheathed on the back, just those that would be affected by having a closed cloak.
Quote from: Morgenes on January 13, 2009, 07:23:19 PM
There won't be any change to delays for items sheathed on the back, just those that would be affected by having a closed cloak.
I'm very excited for this code change.
I can imagine scenes of gunslingers drawing back their cloak to reveal a six-shooter in the middle of a little outpost.
Quote from: Reiloth on January 13, 2009, 07:57:28 PM
Quote from: Morgenes on January 13, 2009, 07:23:19 PM
There won't be any change to delays for items sheathed on the back, just those that would be affected by having a closed cloak.
I'm very excited for this code change.
I can imagine scenes of gunslingers drawing back their cloak to reveal a six-shooter in the middle of a little outpost.
Me too. Man, I'm actually pretty pumped about this change. Thank you, Morgenes. As far as the default setting, I'd prefer open, for the reasons that others have already posted.
Qzz, Kassindra, Venomz, and Reiloth have already basically spoken my thoughts on the subject.
Defaulting to open.
closed, last thing you put on over everything else, you would close it.
When I put on a large overcloak, it defaults to open. I must take a few minutes of my time to close that bitch all the way up.
I chose it defaults to open, you must close it. It didn't start in the closed position.
It would be nice, if 'some' types of the cloaks were defaulted to close, and could 'not' be opened. Like Abas for example. Leave the abiltiy to be open/closed to expensive cloaks. While the type of cloaks that's just a square of fabric with a hole for the head and arms (or sometimes just the head), is defaulted and 'locked' as closed.
Quote from: Dar on January 13, 2009, 09:59:30 PM
It would be nice, if 'some' types of the cloaks were defaulted to close, and could 'not' be opened. Like Abas for example. Leave the abiltiy to be open/closed to expensive cloaks. While the type of cloaks that's just a square of fabric with a hole for the head and arms (or sometimes just the head), is defaulted and 'locked' as closed.
This is a nice idea...where were you when I started this? Not sure how I'm going to fit this in now, except to add a flag for this 'aba' idea.
Quote from: Morgenes on January 13, 2009, 10:07:12 PM
Quote from: Dar on January 13, 2009, 09:59:30 PM
It would be nice, if 'some' types of the cloaks were defaulted to close, and could 'not' be opened. Like Abas for example. Leave the abiltiy to be open/closed to expensive cloaks. While the type of cloaks that's just a square of fabric with a hole for the head and arms (or sometimes just the head), is defaulted and 'locked' as closed.
This is a nice idea...where were you when I started this? Not sure how I'm going to fit this in now, except to add a flag for this 'aba' idea.
Abas...Robes...But then again...Wouldn't robes be permenantly open? As you would wear the sash around the robe, and the weapons inside the sash, if you wanted to draw weapons at all.
Also, when I think of an aba...Sure, it conceals the weapons and weapon-belt on default...I'm thinking of an image of Clint Eastwood...But it actually seems easier to draw a weapon with sleeveless, practically shoulderless aba, than a heavy duster or cloak.
How will this change affect cloaks that can already be opened and closed (as containers)?
Quote from: Synthesis on January 13, 2009, 10:37:51 PM
How will this change affect cloaks that can already be opened and closed (as containers)?
Good question, as coded they won't be openable/closable as containers anymore. If you guys have suggestions on how to get around that, please let me know.
Quote from: Morgenes on January 13, 2009, 10:40:15 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on January 13, 2009, 10:37:51 PM
How will this change affect cloaks that can already be opened and closed (as containers)?
Good question, as coded they won't be openable/closable as containers anymore. If you guys have suggestions on how to get around that, please let me know.
Maybe a different syntax for cloak showing/not showing the equippage underneath? A syntax noted in the help clothing or similar helpfile?
seal cloak, unseal cloak.
Code pockets?
For cloaks/robes/pants/etc. that have legitimately closeable pockets:
close pants pocket
close cloak pocket
close robe pocket
Seems a little clunky to me, though. :-\
fasten/unfasten?
tie/untie?
clasp/unclasp?
loosen/tighten?
Or you could make it work through the wear command, trying to open/close a worn cloak first before looking in the inventory for an unworn one.
>wear cloak open
You open your dark, hooded cloak.
>wear cloak closed
You close your dark, hooded cloak.
Could you make it a generic command like "use," such as in flipable weapons?
>use gun
You cock the rifle barrel on a three barrel shotgun.
>use gun
You cock the shot barrels on a three barrel shotgun.
...
>Use cloak
You loosen a desert-camoflaged greatcloack reavealing your lEEt grear.
>Use cloak
You fasten your desert-camoflaged greatcloack, hiding the fact that you are naked.
I agree with Fantasywriter.
Quote from: Delstro on January 13, 2009, 11:05:36 PM
How about we use the same command that is used to flip weapons?
I forgot the name of it, but I hope it isn't flip.
"Use" in combat. "Flip" or "use" any other time.
Wow. I failed. I even read that post. Let me change that one.
Quote from: Delstro on January 13, 2009, 11:07:50 PM
Wow. I failed. I even read that post. Let me change that one.
Meh, I was just pickin'.
The more I think about it the less I care what the default is as long as there is a helpfile made for it and put on the MOTD.
There are some clothing items that use the 'flip' command already, so having it apply to cloaks as well might end up a little confusing.
'Use' seems to be the best solution, or having 'open/close cloak' changed to 'open/close pocket.'
On discussion on the staff side, we decided that the close-able container cloak is worth losing for leaving the simpler syntax (open/close).
Sorry to those of you this might inconvenience.
Quote from: Morgenes on January 13, 2009, 11:32:34 PM
On discussion on the staff side, we decided that the close-able container cloak is worth losing for leaving the simpler syntax (open/close).
Sorry to those of you this might inconvenience.
In that case, can the close/open behaviour of cloaks ALSO govern the closed/open status of their being containers? After all, if you have a pocket on the inside, 'tis much more difficult to get to when you've closed the cloak than when you haven't.
Quote from: Tisiphone on January 13, 2009, 11:35:57 PM
Quote from: Morgenes on January 13, 2009, 11:32:34 PM
On discussion on the staff side, we decided that the close-able container cloak is worth losing for leaving the simpler syntax (open/close).
Sorry to those of you this might inconvenience.
In that case, can the close/open behaviour of cloaks ALSO govern the closed/open status of their being containers? After all, if you have a pocket on the inside, 'tis much more difficult to get to when you've closed the cloak than when you haven't.
That's fine with me.
Moar-guiness... has anyone ever told you how absolutely awesome you are?
Open... I think that's what I voted... Yeah open.
Quote from: Tisiphone on January 13, 2009, 11:35:57 PM
In that case, can the close/open behaviour of cloaks ALSO govern the closed/open status of their being containers? After all, if you have a pocket on the inside, 'tis much more difficult to get to when you've closed the cloak than when you haven't.
Great idea!
I went with I don't care ... about open and closed anyway. I LOVE the addition of this to the code though!! You rock Morgenes!!!
Wanna re-implement sdesc-hiding masks while you're tinkering around?
;D
Quote from: manonfire on January 14, 2009, 01:45:05 AM
Wanna re-implement sdesc-hiding masks while you're tinkering around?
;D
Do you mean mdesc hiding masks? Because sdesc hiding ones are pretty common from what I've seen.
Quote from: musashi on January 14, 2009, 01:52:03 AM
Quote from: manonfire on January 14, 2009, 01:45:05 AM
Wanna re-implement sdesc-hiding masks while you're tinkering around?
;D
Do you mean mdesc hiding masks? Because sdesc hiding ones are pretty common from what I've seen.
Yup, I do.
Quote from: manonfire on January 14, 2009, 01:45:05 AM
Wanna re-implement sdesc-hiding masks while you're tinkering around?
;D
Quote from: Morgenes on January 13, 2009, 02:36:41 PM
I will close this poll in 24 hours as I want to get this finished.
I am working on allowing cloaks to be open or closed to allow you to show what's underneath them. This will also impart a slight additional delay to draw/sheath if you leave your cloak closed.
If you consider what is in the game today, the current behavior acts as if everyone's cloaks are closed (you can't see the person's belt or what's on it).
In adding this, one way or the other needs to be the default. In my mind I can see both answers. Having it default to open seems more likely how you'd put on a cloak, the problem is to get today's behavior that everyone is used to, you have to do two commands, 'wear cloak; close cloak'. Having it default to close is the current standard behavior of cloaks, yet it will force you to open it to draw your weapons without delay.
On a related tangent, this code change will also add command emotes to the open and close commands.
Some articles of clothing such as 'bandoliers' should be permanently open.
Also. This is an awesome addition.
Morgenes is awesome.
Open, though. I've never struggled into a coat or jacket that was closed.
I really like the idea and would prefer if cloaks defaulted to open. If some cloaks are to be considered permanently closed (various kinds of robes, tabards, djellabahs, bishts and whatnot), please consider making it possible to wear belts/sashes on top of them. It would realistically allow for easy access to items on the belt and cover the breastplate of doom that you wear underneath the cloak.
closed....I've gotten into jackets that were closed before (albeit that some were bigger than me, but most weren't). That and the fact that if I were going to wear a cloak to begin with, it'd probably be to conceal that i'm hiding my weapons and a breastplate of doom as Palomar put it....or the fact that I'm not wear anything, but look mean. ;D
Oh, just thought of another thing, can you add a code to tell about how long the cloak is (ankles, waist, barely covering the shoulders)? Maybe this is already out there, and It's just too obvious for me to notice.
Going ahead and closing off voting, it seems there is a pretty decisive choice from you guys, thanks for your input.
As to your other questions:
Quote from: Clearsighted on January 14, 2009, 03:25:28 AM
Some articles of clothing such as 'bandoleers' should be permanently open.
This will be going in with this, however note that not all cloaks are set up properly. We've tried to go through and find them all, but if you find a cloak that you think should be open-able/close-able but isn't, please bug it so we can fix it, thanks.
Quote from: manonfire on January 14, 2009, 01:45:05 AM
Wanna re-implement [M]desc-hiding masks while you're tinkering around?
Not really, no
Quote from: palomar on January 14, 2009, 06:19:06 AM
...If some cloaks are to be considered permanently closed (various kinds of robes, tabards, djellabahs, bishts and whatnot), please consider making it possible to wear belts/sashes on top of them. It would realistically allow for easy access to items on the belt and cover the breastplate of doom that you wear underneath the cloak.
I think this is why I won't be doing the 'permanently closed' idea. There's no good way to do layering easily in Arm 1, so things like this will need to be handled in Arm 2, sorry folks.
I think AmandaGreathouse just had her filthy way with your code and crashed the mud Morgnese ;)
l self with cloak is now bitchin. thanks! (once I get to hang out a few minutes. I think I'll wait about 15 more minutes before I try to log in again, this time... it wasn't me!)
I'm pretty sure it was not me at least.
But, I do have a question for morg now.
Will open/close show up on assess of the item?
And If you think a cloak should be able to open or close but does not, just bug it IG? (edit) Oops, ignore this one, I read the post above.
Sorry about the crashes, it was due to a 'fix' to messages shown when opening doors (I did some general cleanup on open/close while I was in there) that caused it. It's fixed now.
Quote from: X-D on January 14, 2009, 10:16:23 AM
Will open/close show up on assess of the item?
No, if you can see their belt or things on it, then it's open, if not it's likely closed.
I'll think more about this I'm not sure if it's necessary.
I chose not to include the 'open' or 'closed' descriptor on cloaks since they're used in short descriptions for hoods (the open hooded red sancloth cloaked figure...etc...)
I meant assess item, as in, in inventory or merchants inventory with view.
Quote from: X-D on January 14, 2009, 10:28:41 AM
I meant assess item, as in, in inventory or merchants inventory with view.
Not currently, if it becomes a major issue, we'll consider it. For now, the description of the object should be enough to describe if it will cover things. Basically anything that is described as being able to wrap around the entire body should count.
I am suddenly disturbed by all the NPCs not wearing any shirts found in the game. >_>
Quote from: Voular on January 14, 2009, 11:59:52 AM
I am suddenly disturbed by all the NPCs not wearing any shirts found in the game. >_>
I like the code change, it's kind of snazzy.
This is valid though. I've always found it a bit odd that covered clothing doesn't show up at all in look, I as a player like being able to tell that the 'figure' is in fact wearing pants and a shirt beneath that cloak. I'm not sure how to solve that, though listing larger empty inventory slots (pants, shirt, boots, hat) as <empty> would seem to work.
Quote from: staggerlee on January 14, 2009, 12:16:57 PM
Quote from: Voular on January 14, 2009, 11:59:52 AM
I am suddenly disturbed by all the NPCs not wearing any shirts found in the game. >_>
I like the code change, it's kind of snazzy.
This is valid though. I've always found it a bit odd that covered clothing doesn't show up at all in look, I as a player like being able to tell that the 'figure' is in fact wearing pants and a shirt beneath that cloak. I'm not sure how to solve that, though listing larger empty inventory slots (pants, shirt, boots, hat) as <empty> would seem to work.
It would be neat if cloaks could be flagged as "short", "average", "long", "very long", "sleeveless", etc. For example:
• Cloaks which are "short" would go down to the waist, and only cover shirts, but may show belts and sheathed weapons, and impart little or no delay while drawing when closed.
• Cloaks flagged "long" might cover everything up to and including your pants. Ankle-wear and boots would still be visible.
• "Very Long" cloaks/robes might cover everything including your boots, and would impart the longest delay while drawing while closed.
• "Sleeved" items might cover arm-gear, while "sleeveless" items always show arm-gear.
While it doesn't
exactly solve your issue, Staggerlee, it might help some. If you see someone wearing a "short, hooded waistcoat" for example, but didn't see any pants, you might have a good reason to assume they really weren't wearing any pants.
Quote from: Tlaloc on January 14, 2009, 01:20:37 PM
Quote from: staggerlee on January 14, 2009, 12:16:57 PM
Quote from: Voular on January 14, 2009, 11:59:52 AM
I am suddenly disturbed by all the NPCs not wearing any shirts found in the game. >_>
I like the code change, it's kind of snazzy.
This is valid though. I've always found it a bit odd that covered clothing doesn't show up at all in look, I as a player like being able to tell that the 'figure' is in fact wearing pants and a shirt beneath that cloak. I'm not sure how to solve that, though listing larger empty inventory slots (pants, shirt, boots, hat) as <empty> would seem to work.
It would be neat if cloaks could be flagged as "short", "average", "long", "very long", "sleeveless", etc. For example:
• Cloaks which are "short" would go down to the waist, and only cover shirts, but may show belts and sheathed weapons, and impart little or no delay while drawing when closed.
• Cloaks flagged "long" might cover everything up to and including your pants. Ankle-wear and boots would still be visible.
• "Very Long" cloaks/robes might cover everything including your boots, and would impart the longest delay while drawing while closed.
• "Sleeved" items might cover arm-gear, while "sleeveless" items always show arm-gear.
While it doesn't exactly solve your issue, Staggerlee, it might help some. If you see someone wearing a "short, hooded waistcoat" for example, but didn't see any pants, you might have a good reason to assume they really weren't wearing any pants.
Note that Tlaloc's suggestion here is how Arm 2's wear locations will work. Staff can describe what an item covers and what it doesn't, covering over items that are below it.
Quote from: Voular on January 14, 2009, 11:59:52 AM
I am suddenly disturbed by all the NPCs not wearing any shirts found in the game. >_>
Finally! I can make that flasher dwarf I wanted to! That runs around naked, flashing all is his objective! TO DISTURB THE MASSES! :-*
P.S. Morg, you are my hero. ;D
Is this currently in effect? I have yet to be able to close or open a cloak that wasn't already an open/close container...and that has no effect on seeing inventory. All that has happened is that now my cloaks don't cover anything. Am I just buggy?
Morrolan
Quote from: Morrolan on January 14, 2009, 01:53:36 PM
Is this currently in effect? I have yet to be able to close or open a cloak that wasn't already an open/close container...and that has no effect on seeing inventory. All that has happened is that now my cloaks don't cover anything. Am I just buggy?
Morrolan
This is in effect. Please bug the item and we will try and fix it ASAP.
This discussion made me finish my post about wearing items in Arm 2, see: http://www.zalanthas.org/blogs/brideofson/archives/001425.html for the latest.
Nice job, Morgenes. Thank you.
I always liked the layering system in other muds, it allowed for fun stuff to do. A pampered bard, who ..oooooh, wearing a chainmail underneath the silky dress?
Tugging the jacket aside, The masked figure reveals the militia black sash.
Heh. Now my equipment list is about 5 lines longer.
LONG LIVE THE EQUIPMENT SPAM.
;D
Thanks Morgenes. I love this. I can think of more than one of my past PC's who would have revelled in being able to show off the splendiferous gowns or blouses or belts she wore beneath a cloak.
I do have one quibble with the new code though --
>close cloak
You feel too relaxed to do that.
Quote from: Medena on January 14, 2009, 03:47:03 PM
I do have one quibble with the new code though --
>close cloak
You feel too relaxed to do that.
Sorry, you have to be sitting to open/close things, lying down you just can't get positioning.
Quote from: Morgenes on January 14, 2009, 03:50:01 PM
Sorry, you have to be sitting to open/close things, lying down you just can't get positioning.
But I have a specific use case for exactly this!
Two requests:
1) waist wear and waist tattoo/scar location be moved in the equipment list, to just above the belt location.
why? it looks out of place and weird to have the 'waist' location show up after the belt, weapons, and cloak.
2) cloak pockets remain permanently open, and unaffected by open/close.
why? many coats/dusters/cloaks have pockets on the outside, and it makes little IC sense to 'open' your cloak to access an outside pocket.
Code changes are so exciting :D
Quote from: a strange shadow on January 14, 2009, 05:44:04 PM
Two requests:
1) waist wear and waist tattoo/scar location be moved in the equipment list, to just above the belt location.
why? it looks out of place and weird to have the 'waist' location show up after the belt, weapons, and cloak.
I can see this one
Quote from: a strange shadow on January 14, 2009, 05:44:04 PM
2) cloak pockets remain permanently open, and unaffected by open/close.
why? many coats/dusters/cloaks have pockets on the outside, and it makes little IC sense to 'open' your cloak to access an outside pocket.
This directly conflicts with previous cloaks that could open/close their pockets. It's actually a boon to you all as you are now all getting the 'closable' container idea on all cloaks. Really, if you think about it, I don't think you really want me to do this, if you still think you do, start a poll and have the playerbase show me that it is what you want.
So all cloaks are "closeable" containers now?
One thing that I would've liked to see, is some 'other' benefits and penalties to having the cloak opened and closed. Because right now, the way I understand it, people will use their cloaks in exactly 'opposite' way then people would in real life.
A ranger in a longcloak leaves the city gates and unlutches his cloak open. Because .... he might need to draw in a hurry, and the chance of meeting thieves in the middle of the wild are slim. Ofcourse, the wind, the sand, the dirt will have an easier time getting inside his garments, but ... oh well. That's not coded in.
A ranger in a longcloak enters the city. The first thing he does is tightens his cloak as shut as possible. Why? Because the delay to drawing isnt all that relevent, the crim code is in effect, and the city's full of thieves to nick his nifty weapons.
While irl, it would be exactly the opposite. Mainly because the cloak's 'main' function is cover from weather/sun/dust, not thieves.
Quote from: Dar on January 15, 2009, 12:19:50 AM
One thing that I would've liked to see, is some 'other' benefits and penalties to having the cloak opened and closed. Because right now, the way I understand it, people will use their cloaks in exactly 'opposite' way then people would in real life.
A ranger in a longcloak leaves the city gates and unlutches his cloak open. Because .... he might need to draw in a hurry, and the chance of meeting thieves in the middle of the wild are slim. Ofcourse, the wind, the sand, the dirt will have an easier time getting inside his garments, but ... oh well. That's not coded in.
A ranger in a longcloak enters the city. The first thing he does is tightens his cloak as shut as possible. Why? Because the delay to drawing isnt all that relevent, the crim code is in effect, and the city's full of thieves to nick his nifty weapons.
While irl, it would be exactly the opposite. Mainly because the cloak's 'main' function is cover from weather/sun/dust, not thieves.
Make the stamina bonuses for cloaks only work when they are closed?
That could work. Though the stamina boost isnt really 'great'. Not enough to warrant it 7/10 times. How about this ... everyone except rangers, drop 10 max stun when they enter the wilderness, but if they have a closed cloak, they dont. The rangers get their stun 'improved' by 10, in the wilderness, which is negated, should they choose to keep their cloak open.
Could make delves lose their max stun in the cities too :).
>open cloak
You can't find a way to open <sdesc of cloak>.
I bugged it in game. I couldn't open a cloak that I wasn't wearing, which was in my inventory.
Quote from: Dar on January 15, 2009, 12:28:49 AM
That could work. Though the stamina boost isnt really 'great'.
It may not be great, but it cam mean the difference between life or death when you are running from something.
Also, the first things I do when I go out of doors:
>Scan on
>Listen on
>Draw <weapon/s>
Quote from: FantasyWriter on January 15, 2009, 12:22:11 AM
Quote from: Dar on January 15, 2009, 12:19:50 AM
One thing that I would've liked to see, is some 'other' benefits and penalties to having the cloak opened and closed. Because right now, the way I understand it, people will use their cloaks in exactly 'opposite' way then people would in real life.
A ranger in a longcloak leaves the city gates and unlutches his cloak open. Because .... he might need to draw in a hurry, and the chance of meeting thieves in the middle of the wild are slim. Ofcourse, the wind, the sand, the dirt will have an easier time getting inside his garments, but ... oh well. That's not coded in.
A ranger in a longcloak enters the city. The first thing he does is tightens his cloak as shut as possible. Why? Because the delay to drawing isnt all that relevent, the crim code is in effect, and the city's full of thieves to nick his nifty weapons.
While irl, it would be exactly the opposite. Mainly because the cloak's 'main' function is cover from weather/sun/dust, not thieves.
Make the stamina bonuses for cloaks only work when they are closed?
Seconded. I'd like it so that cloaks offer a more significant 'stamina recovery' rate when closed too. Keeping the sun and sand away from you should help you recover a bit faster outside. So, a ranger resting out in the deserts would likely have his cloak closed, but leave it open when walking around, ready for action.
Quote from: SMuz on January 15, 2009, 12:43:26 AM
Keeping the sun and sand away from you should help you recover a bit faster outside. So, a ranger resting out in the deserts would likely have his cloak closed, but leave it open when walking around, ready for action.
Very well said. I agree.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on January 15, 2009, 12:16:31 AM
So all cloaks are "closeable" containers now?
I think this may be the case. My character has a cloak with pockets that didn't used to be "closeable". Now I can't access my cloak's pockets when it's closed. Therefore, I assume all cloaks' pockets can be closed up now.
Poor thieves.
Quote from: Dar on January 15, 2009, 12:19:50 AM
One thing that I would've liked to see, is some 'other' benefits and penalties to having the cloak opened and closed. Because right now, the way I understand it, people will use their cloaks in exactly 'opposite' way then people would in real life.
A ranger in a longcloak leaves the city gates and unlutches his cloak open. Because .... he might need to draw in a hurry, and the chance of meeting thieves in the middle of the wild are slim. Ofcourse, the wind, the sand, the dirt will have an easier time getting inside his garments, but ... oh well. That's not coded in.
A ranger in a longcloak enters the city. The first thing he does is tightens his cloak as shut as possible. Why? Because the delay to drawing isnt all that relevent, the crim code is in effect, and the city's full of thieves to nick his nifty weapons.
While irl, it would be exactly the opposite. Mainly because the cloak's 'main' function is cover from weather/sun/dust, not thieves.
I actually kind of see this as an RP thing. If it were me, I'm not sure I would auto-open my cloak upon leaving the city. Rather, I would open it prior to an engagement (that I knew was coming). I see a a ranger in a longcloak tightening his cloak about him as he heads out in to the sands on a scouting mission. Upon seeing a gith on the horizon - or entering dangerous territory - he unlatches his cloak to allow for better movement during combat. Maybe my PC gets jumped, and maybe I suffer a draw-penalty from it. To me it's worth it just for the scene where an undertaker is gravely putting the finishing touches on a crappy wooden coffin while two guys square off in a duel at High Sun, throwing their longcloaks open, fingers twitching by their sheathed weapons, a bead of sweat trailing down their cheeks as a tumbleweed rolls past...
So, to sum up: I say do what's IC, and not what's coded. If it's IC for your ranger to be more worried about grit and dirt and sunburn, then close up that cloak. If it's IC for your ranger to open up his cloak to show off his fancy new nipple rings, or get at his sword faster, then open up the cloak. This is an RP tool. Use it!
Quote from: Tlaloc on January 15, 2009, 02:21:42 AM
Quote from: Dar on January 15, 2009, 12:19:50 AM
One thing that I would've liked to see, is some 'other' benefits and penalties to having the cloak opened and closed. Because right now, the way I understand it, people will use their cloaks in exactly 'opposite' way then people would in real life.
A ranger in a longcloak leaves the city gates and unlutches his cloak open. Because .... he might need to draw in a hurry, and the chance of meeting thieves in the middle of the wild are slim. Ofcourse, the wind, the sand, the dirt will have an easier time getting inside his garments, but ... oh well. That's not coded in.
A ranger in a longcloak enters the city. The first thing he does is tightens his cloak as shut as possible. Why? Because the delay to drawing isnt all that relevent, the crim code is in effect, and the city's full of thieves to nick his nifty weapons.
While irl, it would be exactly the opposite. Mainly because the cloak's 'main' function is cover from weather/sun/dust, not thieves.
I actually kind of see this as an RP thing. If it were me, I'm not sure I would auto-open my cloak upon leaving the city. Rather, I would open it prior to an engagement (that I knew was coming). I see a a ranger in a longcloak tightening his cloak about him as he heads out in to the sands on a scouting mission. Upon seeing a gith on the horizon - or entering dangerous territory - he unlatches his cloak to allow for better movement during combat. Maybe my PC gets jumped, and maybe I suffer a draw-penalty from it. To me it's worth it just for the scene where an undertaker is gravely putting the finishing touches on a crappy wooden coffin while two guys square off in a duel at High Sun, throwing their longcloaks open, fingers twitching by their sheathed weapons, a bead of sweat trailing down their cheeks as a tumbleweed rolls past...
So, to sum up: I say do what's IC, and not what's coded. If it's IC for your ranger to be more worried about grit and dirt and sunburn, then close up that cloak. If it's IC for your ranger to open up his cloak to show off his fancy new nipple rings, or get at his sword faster, then open up the cloak. This is an RP tool. Use it!
This is what I was trying to say.
Also, why aren't you staff anymore? I hope you re-applied.
Quote from: Morgenes on January 14, 2009, 01:25:21 PMNote that Tlaloc's suggestion here is how Arm 2's wear locations will work. Staff can describe what an item covers and what it doesn't, covering over items that are below it.
Will that apply to armor values or just look coverage, or both?
Quote from: Tlaloc on January 15, 2009, 02:21:42 AM
I actually kind of see this as an RP thing. If it were me, I'm not sure I would auto-open my cloak upon leaving the city. Rather, I would open it prior to an engagement (that I knew was coming). I see a a ranger in a longcloak tightening his cloak about him as he heads out in to the sands on a scouting mission. Upon seeing a gith on the horizon - or entering dangerous territory - he unlatches his cloak to allow for better movement during combat. Maybe my PC gets jumped, and maybe I suffer a draw-penalty from it. To me it's worth it just for the scene where an undertaker is gravely putting the finishing touches on a crappy wooden coffin while two guys square off in a duel at High Sun, throwing their longcloaks open, fingers twitching by their sheathed weapons, a bead of sweat trailing down their cheeks as a tumbleweed rolls past...
So, to sum up: I say do what's IC, and not what's coded. If it's IC for your ranger to be more worried about grit and dirt and sunburn, then close up that cloak. If it's IC for your ranger to open up his cloak to show off his fancy new nipple rings, or get at his sword faster, then open up the cloak. This is an RP tool. Use it!
I agree that this is the way it
should be, but right now the code penalizes that behaviour, rather than rewarding it, which will lead to people doing the opposite.
Quote from: Jarek on January 15, 2009, 07:44:13 AM
Quote from: Morgenes on January 14, 2009, 01:25:21 PMNote that Tlaloc's suggestion here is how Arm 2's wear locations will work. Staff can describe what an item covers and what it doesn't, covering over items that are below it.
Will that apply to armor values or just look coverage, or both?
both
Honestly, who was y'all's Byn sarge? ;)
If your weapons aren't drawn when you leave the gates, you're already too late. Mr. Mekillot doesn't stop for chit-chat.
Quote from: Morgenes
Quote from: a strange shadow
2) cloak pockets remain permanently open, and unaffected by open/close.
why? many coats/dusters/cloaks have pockets on the outside, and it makes little IC sense to 'open' your cloak to access an outside pocket.
This directly conflicts with previous cloaks that could open/close their pockets. It's actually a boon to you all as you are now all getting the 'closable' container idea on all cloaks. Really, if you think about it, I don't think you really want me to do this, if you still think you do, start a poll and have the playerbase show me that it is what you want.
Actually, I do really want this: one, this makes PCs even more impregnable for pickpockets; two, it makes little sense to be forced to open your cloak to access a pocket on the outside; three, the cloaks which could be closed were very few in number compared to those which couldn't. I'll start a poll, though, once I get off work & have time to elaborate.
Quote from: a strange shadow on January 15, 2009, 12:52:00 PM
Quote from: Morgenes
Quote from: a strange shadow
2) cloak pockets remain permanently open, and unaffected by open/close.
why? many coats/dusters/cloaks have pockets on the outside, and it makes little IC sense to 'open' your cloak to access an outside pocket.
This directly conflicts with previous cloaks that could open/close their pockets. It's actually a boon to you all as you are now all getting the 'closable' container idea on all cloaks. Really, if you think about it, I don't think you really want me to do this, if you still think you do, start a poll and have the playerbase show me that it is what you want.
Actually, I do really want this: one, this makes PCs even more impregnable for pickpockets; two, it makes little sense to be forced to open your cloak to access a pocket on the outside; three, the cloaks which could be closed were very few in number compared to those which couldn't. I'll start a poll, though, once I get off work & have time to elaborate.
I will note that since this was requested I did go back and refactor things so that there is only one 'closed' flag (there were two, one for the pocket and one for the cloak). I won't easily be able to rectify this, and so it needs to be all or nothing at least in the short term. Either closing your cloak protects the contents, or it doesn't.
Quote from: brytta.leofa on January 15, 2009, 09:44:11 AM
If your weapons aren't drawn when you leave the gates, you're already too late.
Sir, yessir!
Have to sheathe them in order to get out your skinning knife or mess with your bow ... sounds like a pretty reasonable time to open that cloak to allow freedom of movement. All done shooting/skinning? Get out your blades and tighten up the cloak and trudge/ride on.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on January 13, 2009, 04:33:02 PM
Quote from: Marauder Moe on January 13, 2009, 04:30:35 PM
Will the inventory-view sdesc of the cloak change to reflect that it's open or closed? Like...
PLEASE!
Either that or
<worn on body> nipples
Previously: All things worn on body covered up stuff. It didn't matter if they had pockets, and it didn't matter if they were openable/closeable.
Now: Only things that can close, that are worn on body cover up stuff. Not all things worn on body are openable/closeable.
Should things that are worn on body (capes, abas, caftans), that do NOT have pockets, and are NOT openable/closeable, be typoed or bugged to have the ability to open/close them added to them? Cause - I really REALLY don't want people seeing my ratty old waterskin and mismatched belt on my waist, just because my cape goes perfectly with the rest of my outfit.
They're that way for a reason.
I can definitely see your belt and waterskin when you wear a cape. Aba, too - they've got two openings instead of one, and you'd look damn-near comical trying to keep them shut.
Caftans, now, those should probably be bugged, as the vast majority of caftans (at least IRL) are more robelike in appearance than anything, and most don't even have front openings.
Otherwise - if you're wanting to wear a cape because it fits so perfectly with the rest of your outfit, then obviously your WHOLE outfit needs to fit - including your belt and your ratty waterskin - because you're not Dracula, and your cape is not made of malleable, impermeable shadow that blocks sight of everything to your knees.
In other news: who actually wastes a belt slot with a waterskin? ???
Funny, you never used to be able to see my waterskin, so what's different now? Oh - right. He made CLOAKS change. So it's possible he did "mon un imm openable cloak" and forgot about ALL those other outer garments that have -always- covered shirts and belts, but simply lack that "cloak" keyword.
That is why I'm asking Morgenes if these items, which have always covered up belts and shirts and anything hanging off the belts in the past, need to be bugged. To put them back where they used to be, regarding "what these items cover." They have always covered what they covered. Now they don't. It can be problematic, for a myriad of reasons, the ugly waterskin syndrome being merely the most convenient when I was typing it out.
Synthesis: I do. I didn't know it wasn't a common thing to do. Especially since um..they -can- be worn on the belt, and you -can- buy belts that hold a dozen knives, so who cares about one single slot? If these capes, which are actually parts of other outfits, and not intended to be worn *under* cloaks...are no longer going to be able to cover the upper torso (even though they're worn on the body..hello?)...
then I'm gonna start writing up matching waterskins to go with every last outfit in the known world. Because, brown tandu looks LOUSY with purple silk.
That's what this change was ABOUT - cloaks being able to open and close and realistically show what they should show.
Cloaks should cover you up. Abas and capes should not. That's how it WAS, because the code was an inefficient blanket on anything worn "about."
That was changed - and purposefully, unless I'm mistaken - to fix these problems.
Closed cloak:
(http://www.dragonflyhouse.net/Childs_Hooded_Cloak.GIF)
Open cloak:
(http://www.woollycat.net/images/cloak-open.jpg)
Cape:
(http://www.hauntedventures.com/2007NEWTEMPLATES/SuperHeroesAndVillains/DeluxeCollectorsSupermanCostume.jpg)
Cloaks cover you up. That's one of their main purposes: keep you warm, keep you anonymous. Capes are not meant for anonymity or covering you up - they're meant for keeping you warm and faaaashionable.
[Edit]
I misspoke on the abas earlier, however - they were an invention of Herbert's Dune, and I was thinking of tabards. My mistake. However, if they had wanted every single item worn about to be able to be closeable, I'm sure it would have been a LOT easier to code the change to affect everything en masse as the prior code had. The fact that not everything is closeable feels purposeful.
[/Edit]
For now you have to have it be marked as a cloak to cover things. Per the discussion before, anything that was worn about was covering things (even capes, bandoleers and others that should not have).
If you have something that should cover but isn't, bug it, we will make it so it open/closes for now. I did not get to the part about having items that always cover but aren't openable/closeable, nor do I know when I will.
Quote from: Only He Stands There on January 18, 2009, 08:43:38 PM
[Edit]
I misspoke on the abas earlier, however - they were an invention of Herbert's Dune, and I was thinking of tabards. My mistake. However, if they had wanted every single item worn about to be able to be closeable, I'm sure it would have been a LOT easier to code the change to affect everything en masse as the prior code had. The fact that not everything is closeable feels purposeful.
[/Edit]
The aba (or abaya) is traditional wear of the Bedouins. Here's a pretty good link showing some pictures of them: http://www.raqs.co.nz/me/clothing_cloak.html
That site in general might be a good resource for kadians and other fashionistas.
I was thinking the aba and abaya/abaaya were two separate things, with the former being Herbert's creation. Interesting. Thanks.
Huh. I always assumed that abas were just big baggy hoodies.
Are some cloaks not able to be closed, or I'm doing something wrong?
Sorry if this came up already, I haven't read the whole thread.
Hmm.. I don't really like how the aba works now. I mean for Bynners, it seems ok enough to have a breastplate on top of the aba. But when I see a blouse and skirt on top of the aba... well, that's just bad fashion :P
Maybe the body and legs equipment should be under the aba, but the belt and anything on it on top?
Why the dark, hooded cloak can't be closed, but filthy dark, hooded one can? I wanted to bug it, but then I'm sure someone would do that a long time ago if it were a bug.
Quote from: spicemustflow on June 11, 2009, 03:03:08 PM
Why the dark, hooded cloak can't be closed, but filthy dark, hooded one can? I wanted to bug it, but then I'm sure someone would do that a long time ago if it were a bug.
These objects should mostly be fixed, wish up if you find a cloak that should be closable but isn't and we'll fix it.
How are we supposed to know which ones should and which ones shouldn't?
The item's mdesc.
I think the mdesc isn't comprehensive enough at all times. Many do not clearly say 'this should be able to be closed' or 'this shouldn't be able to be closed' in the mdesc.
Quote from: spawnloser on June 11, 2009, 04:00:50 PM
How are we supposed to know which ones should and which ones shouldn't?
Keep bugging the ones that don't open, the staff will sort the rest out.
Quote from: spawnloser on June 11, 2009, 04:09:27 PM
I think the mdesc isn't comprehensive enough at all times. Many do not clearly say 'this should be able to be closed' or 'this shouldn't be able to be closed' in the mdesc.
Most do have a belt, belt loops, buttons or toggles in the mdesc, though. (a -way- of closing them)
Common sense?
Quote from: a strange shadow on June 11, 2009, 04:51:33 PM
Common sense?
Doesn't always work.
edit: actually here's an example
can't be closed:
This dark-hooded cloak is the type most often used by those who do not
wish to be recognized, as it perfectly conceals the face when worn. Made of
a cheap, stiff fabric, the cut is roomy and there are no details other than
straight seams and a sheer economy of work.
can be closed:
Made of thread-bare linen, this cloak was once uniformly dark grey. Now
it is a splotched affair of stained black and lighter shades. Dried
smears of blood and gore make the linen stiff and emanate a decaying,
nauseating stench.
Quote from: spawnloser on June 11, 2009, 04:00:50 PM
How are we supposed to know which ones should and which ones shouldn't?
Certainly if you find someone else wearing one that is closed. Otherwise use common sense.
Quote from: Morgenes on June 11, 2009, 09:41:53 PM
Quote from: spawnloser on June 11, 2009, 04:00:50 PM
How are we supposed to know which ones should and which ones shouldn't?
Certainly if you find someone else wearing one that is closed. Otherwise use common sense.
Maybe I'm a little lost (i don'ts reads good) Couldn't you just try "close cloak" and if the cloak that didn't close "seemed" like it should close, email it to the mud fo' review?