SUCH FECKING MEKILLOTSHIT

[INSTAGIBBED]

NOSAVE WAS ON
GUARDS SHOULD ALWAYS SUBDUE, NOT INSTA-GIB
Is it that you can't subdue people who are fighting?
Can you make it possible if they have nosave on?
Can you make it where only guards can?
Please...

<102/102hp 119/123mvs 104/104stun> subdue prostitute
Your concentration falters...
You attempt to grab a sleek, jakhal-eyed prostitute, but she wrestles away.
You're now wanted!
A sleek, jakhal-eyed prostitute hits at you, but you dodge out of the way.
A sleek, jakhal-eyed prostitute hits you, barely grazing your body.

<101/102hp 119/123mvs 93/104stun>
The stocky, square-headed half-giant Tuluki soldier has arrived from the east.
The stocky, square-headed half-giant Tuluki soldier draws a huge sun-pommeled,
twin-bladed axe.
The stocky, square-headed half-giant Tuluki soldier brutally chops you on your
foot.
The stocky, square-headed half-giant Tuluki soldier chops your wrist, doing
frightening damage.
A human Tuluki soldier has arrived from the east.
A human Tuluki soldier stops using a sunburst-emblazoned kite shield.
A human Tuluki soldier pierces your body.
A human Tuluki soldier has arrived from the west.
A human Tuluki soldier stops using a sunburst-emblazoned kite shield.
A human Tuluki soldier solidly pierces your body.
A human Tuluki soldier solidly pierces your leg.

<-7/102hp 119/123mvs 71/104stun>

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I think we've all been visited by the insta-death guards of doom at one time.  Once it happened and I got a res... but it was a much different situation than yours.

Somebody else is bound to say it, so I'll add that it's probably more effective to just email the mud about it, rather than posting here.

Good luck on your next character.

[Agent_137]

that sucks, man.

I've always felt combat code in this game is kinda silly. I'm gonna shy away from it with the rest of my characters.

And crim code, well, heh. Everytime some one complains, you get all these people who are like, "i play an uber-assasain, i'm posting anon, trust me, crim code can be beaten."

But i mean, damnit, if you wanna drag a prostitute off, it shouldn't be a capital offense, honestly.

That sucks man, flee faster next time.  :?

[INSTAGIBBED]

That sucks man, flee faster next time.

No dude, you don't understand the term INSTA-GIBBED.
----IT HAPPENED INSTANTLY----
That bitch called me a dirty (race) and started to walk off, so I said, what? G'mmer you little gortok! dead.

bam
snap
poof

instantly, with nosave on.
INSTANTLY

:cry:

[EvilRoeSlade]

You can't subdue someone who is in the middle of fighting.  Something to keep in mind.

[INSTAGIBBED]

I propose guards be able to.

[Agent_137]

[derailment]

you got a really long prompt, instagibbed. You don't remember your maxes and in what order they are? sheit, man.



I'm curious if the NPCs that attack you are actually west and east of you, or are they created when you violate the crim code, and just made to look like they ran in?


And how do they know so fast? It's like, i can't even type

Code Select Expand

contact soldier
psi OMG OMG A FIGHT OMG OMG RIGHT HERE D00D!
break
in the time it takes them to arrive.

[/derailment]

[Socko]

Well. There just may be means of doing just what you suggest, Gibbed-- but who's got the time and energy it's going to take to code something like that in? I can't imagine it'd be easy.

That said, it's always a drag to lose characters you like.. but that downer is what drives you to create ones a thousand times as rad.

[Agent_137]

rad is such a great word.

[Anonymous]

Well. There just may be means of doing just what you suggest, Gibbed-- but who's got the time and energy it's going to take to code something like that in? I can't imagine it'd be easy.

It's fubar, and its obvious.  Great character, just starting to really get into good stuff, gone, like that, for pulling a prostitute back to me.

It's somthing that needs to be fixed, thats why.
Besides, in terms of time, it will 'pay for itself' after a while from all the extra apps they dont have to review.

[Agent_137]

or you could give them all clubs and turn mercy on. Hopefully you'll pass out before you expire.

In another MUD i played, if you did something bad in the city a VNPC would run off screaming that you broke the law, then a bit of time later, depending on the severity of the crime, guards would come rushing in looking for you. And they didn't have weapons that they used, it was like a message:

Code Select Expand

Guards run in and chain you up and drag you to jail, gg bitch.

Sorry that i'm babysitting this thread. I'm bored at work.

[Anonymous]

Anything, even if it has to be coded from scratch, would be better than the current system.


Well, making you instantly die if you broke the law would be worse.
No, wait, thats the current system.

[Agent_137]

Alright, instagibbed, I like you because you use full sentences with proper puncuation, but you need to go grab a beer or five and chill out. You're entirely too angry over a mere game.

[INSTAGIBBED]

LIGHT THE WORLD ON FIRE, JUST TO WATCH IT BURN
LIGHT THE WORLD ON FIRE, JUST TO WATCH IT BURN
LIGHT THE WORLD ON FIRE, JUST TO WATCH IT BURN
LIGHT THE WORLD ON FIRE, JUST TO WATCH IT BURN
LIGHT THE WORLD ON FIRE, JUST TO WATCH IT BURN
LIGHT THE WORLD ON FIRE, JUST TO WATCH IT BURN
LIGHT THE WORLD ON FIRE, JUST TO WATCH IT BURN
LIGHT THE WORLD ON FIRE, JUST TO WATCH IT BURN
LIGHT THE WORLD ON FIRE, JUST TO WATCH IT BURN
LIGHT THE WORLD ON FIRE, JUST TO WATCH IT BURN


Allright.  I'm out.

[X-D]

Hhhmmm, I've seen npc guards subdue a pc who was in combat.

[sjanimal]

hahah!

I feel your pain, bro.  You try to do some good roleplaying and get fucked over as a result.  Them's the breaks, though.  

I wouldn't bother raising a fuss about it, the only thing you will get as a reply is:

"This is a Harsh world, you're a noob"

or

"Handle this IC"
(even though it's not relevant)

or

"Read the Helpfiles"

or

"What you said is too IC"

LOL, those are the standard replies to any complaint, I haven't figured out what you have to do to get something different yet.

[Cenghiz]

[Heavy Derailment]

LOL, those are the standard replies to any complaint, I haven't figured out what you have to do to get something different yet.

Offering sex?
[/Heavy Derailment]

[Mekeda]

Another solution would have been

west (stalking angrily after the prostitute)
tell prostiture (reaching out for %prostitute arm in an attempt to yank !prostitute back) What tha fuck did you just call me???


You chose instead to use a subdue code, which is not the same as grabbing someone's arm to pull them towards you. You instead chose an action which is akin to wrapping your arms completely around someone to immobilize them. Odds are the soldiers were in the next room and saw you manhandling her and her fighting back and rushed in.

Mekeda

[Callisto]

Hhhmmm, I've seen npc guards subdue a pc who was in combat.

[Anonymous]

Off-topic. Earth is not Zalanthas. The city I live in isn't Tuluk. In other words analogies I offer are not valid, but I'd share anyways. If someone insults me then I am not going to local police or court to complain. They would laugh at me, simple life like that. But, even though I don't look like RL Templar or sikrit ninja assassin, people rarely try to explore freedom of speech on me. My humble persona has nothing to do with it, but few can afford a luxury of being expressive with words around strangers. There is no fear of trials or someone plotting assassination. But there is a fear of eating your words back all together with a half of your teeth. There is a chance of being shoot down or knifed. Right here. Right now. Those chances are not that big really, but it keeps most conversations polite. Most people are like that IMO. Few have a habit of keeping tracks of being insulted for a long time. Most suck it up or act. Here and now.

Now back to the topic. Crime code seems to do well in keeping random PKillers at bay, but I fear it allows those with big mouth to feel overly protected. Things Mekeda suggests are very wise and work very well in waste majority of cases. But there is nothing wrong if sometime RPing would be delivered through coded actions too instead of emoting only. I remember two muls becoming wanted and dead in a row for a short period of time. As far as I know they both were provoked to fight by insults and stealing. Yeah, most men are not as bad-tempered as muls, but anyways, considering karma required for playing mul: two experienced and trusted players couldn't find solution to stay IC without using coded actions. What do you expect from average player then? I fail to see why guards would protect thief who walks between tables and steals anything from anyone. I have no idea why they whack anyone who dares to touch a jerk that spits and talks shit about anyone he sees. Since all questions about crime code end up with FOIC, well, maybe someone will write a help file explaining mindset of NPC guards for a noob like me?

What I suggest:
1. Suspend crime flag for one minute (time depending on the victim's social status?) to emulate time needed to alarm guards. That would suffice to kill the one who insulted me or to find a way to hide. Chances are, I will die anyways. But this way I'd get my revenge at least. It will make all orator-wannabes more careful with words in future, which seems more realistic to me somehow.
2. I like this idea much less but anyways. If criminal has nosave on, then guard should transfer him to the jail instead of trying to subdue. Yeah, that would steal a great RPing experience of NPC guard dragging you along the street. What a loss.

[mansa]

Situation 1:

Person A, perfect health
Person B, perfect health
Person C, perfect health

A is standing.  B is standing.  C is watching.

I've seen a successful subdue on 'B' from 'C'


Situation 2:

Person A, perfect health
Person B, perfect health
Person C, perfect health

A is fighting B.  B is fighting A.  C is watching.

I've never seen a successful subdue on 'B' from 'C'


Situation 3:

Person A, perfect health
Person B, -1 health -OR- knocked out
Person C, perfect health

A is fighting B.  B is considered sleeping.  C is watching.

I've seen a successful subdue on 'B' from 'C'

[Armaddict]

I'll have to note...you failed your subdue automatically because nosave was on, as well, I do believe.

I can't tell if you're new to the game or not, because you're anon, but if you are...at least you used 'mekillotshit'.  The game obviously has -something- to offer, heh.

[Agent_137]

You could even have crim flag delays that very on location in the city.

Obviously, this is a more extensive code, but it'd be a great implementation.

Alleyway in the commoner's quarter? Might take a guard awhile to get there (or learn of you breaking the law).

In the bazaar? Shit, they're likely a couple of steps away.

To me, this seems like basic logic. So i typically assume that's how it is. I can imagine being very pissed if I'm instagibbed in some back alley for throwing  a punch. I can understand them coming after me, but if I don't have enough time to turn on no save and spam flee, something's wrong.

[Tlaloc]

LOL, those are the standard replies to any complaint, I haven't figured out what you have to do to get something different yet.

I'd hate to say it, but in many cases, the 'standard responses' are standard because...well, its true. This is a harsh world, and newbies tend to get killed quickly because of it. Many times alot of issues taken into OOC, can easily be handled ICly. Often, many problems that come up, could have been solved by reading the helpfiles.  

For example, in this instance:

SKILL_SUBDUE                                                       (Combat)

  This skill, though technically the province of warriors, can be employed
by almost anyone with a moderate degree of success. If successful, the
target will be held tight by your character, and will be unable to move or
get away. Failure typically invokes a good deal of anger. Use the release
command to release someone your character has subdued.

Syntax:
  subdue <character name>

Example:
  > subdue azroen

  > subdue gith

Notes:
  It is considered a criminal act to subdue persons within a center of
  civilization.

  The flee command will cause an attempt to break away from being subdued.
  Each attempt to escape the hold will tire your character a little.

  A no-saved victim will automatically be subdued, and thus subduing such
  a person will not be a criminal offence in the city-states.

  Size and strength make a difference in determining how easy it is to
  subdue someone else, or to avoid being subdued.

See also:
  criminal, flee, nosave, release

Delay: after

Following the helpfiles, it should lead you to 'help criminal', which states:

This list is not comprehensive, and one may find he/she is a criminal for
any number of other reasons. There are several ways to absolve yourself
from crimes, and have the label of criminal lifted:

1. Die.
      Dying will remove your criminal status. However, this is not usually
      a desirable option.

Ergo, I think, once reading the helpfiles, its safe to assume that, if 'subdue' is considered a criminal act, then you may die if you try it within a city.

Also, though this is a nitpick, 'Help Nosave' says the following:

Nosaving when soldiers are trying to subdue you will allow them to do so, sometimes preventing them from attacking.

Note, that it doesn't say 'always'. There are likely many factors involved in any given situation, which could lead to you either being subdued peacefully, or killed on the spot. Again: I do laud the original poster, however, for even -knowing- that Nosave can help, heh. Thats a good step in the right direction.

All that said: I'm not trying to imply that the original poster didn't read the helpfiles. I am however trying to illustrate that often, reading up on the documentation can help answer your questions.

As for getting axed instantly, from super-agressive guards: well, that sucks. On the other hand: you were commiting a crime, and it is a harsh world, where anyone can die at the drop of a hat.

To INSTAGIBBED: I highly recommend you check out the Newbie Helper page, which is populated by many, many players who are on at all hours of the day, who are all willing to help a new player to the game. You can find the page at: http://www.armageddon.org/intro/helpers.html

Also, if you haven't yet, I recommend you consider joining a clan with your next PC. Joining a clan can help you get farther into the game, and learn to understand various ideosyncracies of the game, as well as the game World itself.

[moab]

Tloloc, what I didn't hear you address is whether you feel the crimcode could be improved.  I wonder what your impression is?  To my mind, it would be better to have crimcode that handled different levels of criminal activity differently, the more serious (murder of a human citizen, perhaps) resulting in a chase and possible death while pick-pocketing an elf might be ignored completely.  Delays before the guards react could be put in place depending on location and severety and the mob code could be revamped to shake some offenders down, taking coin and valuable goods rather than imprisoning / killing the criminal.

I think having these options would lead to a more interesting, survivable, and still very harsh criminal system.

[Bestatte]

It looked to me as though the crim flag was working just fine, and realistically. Bear with me - the concept is oozing from my brain and I'm writing as it comes to me:

Okay there's two general kinds of being caught: Being caught after you've already committed the crime, and being caught WHILE you are committing the crime. (There's also being caught before you ever commit a crime, but the crim-flag code doesn't consider that...that's up to the PCs to work out)

So I attempt to steal from someone, and I fail. I get crim-flagged. But the moment I am crim-flagged is also the moment I am no longer attempting to steal from someone. I am not 'actively engaged' in committing the crime of stealing.

I attempt to subdue someone, and I fail. I get crim-flagged. The moment I am crim-flagged, I am -currently- and 'actively' engaged in combat, because once you fail, the other guy's gonna fight back, and that's your combat situation.

It looks to me, as though the soldiers saw me 'actively engaged' - AFTER they were alerted to my being crim-flagged. And so rather than just subdue me, they break my face.

If I was crim-flagged, and IMMEDIATELY ceased to continue the crime (via the code ending the crime being committed), then they would not see me 'actively engaged' and would simply haul me over their shoulder and lug me off to jail (assuming I don't fight back).

Did that make any sense? It does to me, but like I said this stuff is just ooze of my grey matter and the caffeine hasn't quite kicked in yet.

[Halaster]

Tlaloc put it well, listen to him.

Also, my suggestion is that if you are going to commit a criminal act, look around and make sure no guards are in the immediate vicinity.

[INSTAGIBBED]

I don't think there should be a delay, I just think that they should still attempt a subude.  That's all.

I wanted subdue to fail, because I was going to get dragged off to jail.  Part of my chars RP.  Well, not anymore I guess  :?  heh

You chose instead to use a subdue code, which is not the same as grabbing someone's arm to pull them towards you. You instead chose an action which is akin to wrapping your arms completely around someone to immobilize them. Odds are the soldiers were in the next room and saw you manhandling her and her fighting back and rushed in.

Just like with backstab, there are many different ways you can subdue someone.  You can put on arm behind their back and push, you can do a full head lock, you can freaking jump on them and sit on them.
I was wielding no weapons, and was grabbing a prostitute.  That is grounds for NPC enforced jail time.  The PC templars should be the ones who decide if my char dies for that.  There was no RP involved in my death.  If they had attempted to subdue me, I could have played out the situation, and even if I died, at least there would have been RP.

I appricate the help, but 'check the helpers page' is just as standard a response as 'its too ic'.  I already knew all that, I'm proposing it get changed.  It seems the majority agrees its fubar.  No one likes their great char getting killed instantly for a stupid ass reason like this.

You can rub it off and say, Zalanthas is a tough world, don't break the law.
All it's doing is ruining peoples chars.[/quote]

[INSTAGIBBED]

Don't get me wrong, Tlaloc, helping noobs is cool and all, but I am not new.  I am proposing somthing to fix what the majority of the playerbase feels is messed up.


All I noticed was, you totally ignoring the discussion part of this thread.  Staff opinions are half of this board.

[Dakkon Black]

Ever thought that maybe that was thier whore? Go to any whore on the street and start handling her rough and the pimp'll cap your ass rl too.

[INSTAGIBBED]

Thing is, it dosen't matter what mob it was.  It could have been a templar, it could have been some blind, naked, spiced out, toothless begger.

[ashyom]

I have two things to say on this.  First:

Complaints of unfairness on the part of others will not be given an audience. If you think someone was mean to you, you're most likely right.

So, in other words, tough luck, ol' chap.

Second.  The best way to get something changed is to write a thorough, polite proposal.  State the problem, and how to change it in a way that is concise, reasonable, logical and shows thought.  Don't say, "This sucks, this has to go!"; rather, try "There is a problem with how the guard crim code works.  What happened was...blah blah.  What I suggest is changing it so that the guards...blah blah.  Alternatively, if that isn't possible, maybe we can do it like...blah blah."  When you outline a problem and solutions clearly, it's easier and more efficient for the coder(s) to track down the problem and fix it.  Send this to mud@armageddon.org

The reason that I'm not commenting on this situation directly is because I (amongst other staff) don't have in-depth code experience necessary.
Ashyom

[INSTAGIBBED]

That quote was fucking stupid.
Whatever, I'm out for today too.

[Krath]

LockDown.