Disarm spam...

[Wyrd]

I'm quite new here, so I don't feel comfortable making sugestions about the code... but I have one quick thought that I would like to share... I've just read trough some thread about spamming disarm skill in combat.
So a quick sugestion would be:
Why don't make a disarm a passive skill? For example like:
everytime your opponent parries you get a (small) chance (based on your skill) of disarming him...
Well certainly would remove problem of spamming right away...
Also it would make picking weapon by attacker harder...

Feel free to kill me  

[EvilRoeSlade]

That would be an improvement.

[Armaddict]

Agreed.

[wizturbo]

Sounds like a plan to me...only problem is it takes combat out of the players hands even more.

Which...i guess is fine by me.

[Gaare]

Indeed a good idea, but in sparring circles sometimes, you wouldn't want to disarm your opponent...

[Armaddict]

A toggle?

[JollyGreenGiant]

I had to really sit and think for a minute about this idea.  Disarming an opponent seems like it would be a combination of both opportunity and deliberate action, but that can still work with the suggestion above.  It would work sort of like listen.  Here's what I suggest -

> disarm bandy
You begin looking for an opportunity to disarm the bandy-legged gith.

Disarm is now toggled on for a period of time based on your skill, and you have some 'after' delay.  You can turn disarm back off before it runs out (say, for example, your disarms are getting reversed) by typing 'disarm off'.

So combat happens, and while disarm is on, any time the bandy-legged gith parries one of your attacks, there's a chance based on your skill that you'll disarm him (or have your disarm reversed, etc.)

If combat stops, your disarm skill turns off automatically.

[Koala]

Disarm is a powerful but dangerous skill.. I wouldn't leave it out of control, like an automated one..

[X-D]

I like JGG version well enough, it would be an improvement over the current method.

[Agent_137]

I'd be game for passive disarm skill, and I support the particular method The Giant proposed.

[Reiloth]

I agree with JGG's proposition...And it is true that Disarm is a truly dangerous skill, I think one of the most important ones in combat, as it can end a fight quicker than that dasterdly circle kick...BUT...It is also easily the most spammed attack outside of kick..And by making it a passive toggle, not only is it more realistic, but also harder to train, making a true master of disarm a pimp in battle.

[Gilvar]

I disagree. Disarm should be how it is. A quick attack that attempts to disarm someone. The code is left ambiguous so it could be a number of different ways, not nescessarily on a parry. You could suddenly slash out at their hands, try to knock it out from below, etc.

There is really no reason for a passive skill. If you want to play as 'looking for an opening' then do it, and just don't do any other combat-spam commands until you feel you found an opening and try.

This also sets a precedent for making other skills 'passive' like bash.

>bash on
>You begin looking for a good opprotunity to rush in and knock your opponent down.


Thats how I feel, I think the disarm skill is fine and typically suggestions like this are only made so that you don't have to type the command or get in a different command while you have your auto-disarming on.

[X-D]

Oh, sure, leave it how it is, Yup, a peak of realism that is, BAH.

First, if the opponent does not have the skill, they have no defense, a player with the skill can disarm them 25 times in a row with no penalty at all. Also, Size and strength are not taken into account with the skill either.

And I've seen that happen by the way, by high karma players too.

Nothing helps kill any sort of realism like the way the disarm skill currently works...unless you think action movies are real.

I've seen a single warrior go against 4 halflings and send all 8+ weapons flying...I actually logged off minutes later because I was too annoyed to continue playing that day.

But one that is even more fun is when a half-giant using a half-giant only weapon, gets disarmed by a dagger wielding halfling, Yup, the dagger wielding halfling knocks that maul from your hands, a maul that is bigger then the halfling, being wielded by a  being who can carry a kank around with ease.

Oh, and by the way, the help files state wearing gloves makes you easier to disarm. Thats silly too, if anything it should have no effect or make you harder to disarm, specialy when you consider that the most common way to get somebodies weapon out of their hand is to strike the hand, IE armored hand good.

Current problems I see with disarm.
#1 The delay is too short, and I think it should be a delay before and after skill, being a skill that (IRL) needs a setup.

#2 It is simply to easy to do repeatadly to somebody in a single fight. I think each attempt on the same person should have a higher diffaculty, maybe based on the combined wis and AGI scores of the person being disarmed, also, make it a timer that wears off after an IC day or so.

#3 It is too easy to pick up your weapon without the other person getting a free attack.

I do like a toggled skill though, specialy if I'm playing a warrior, leave me more time for emotes:)

[Anonymous]

First, if the opponent does not have the skill, they have no defense, a player with the skill can disarm them 25 times in a row with no penalty at all.

As it should be.
Noone other than another warrior should be able to stand up to a warrior in a fight.
Half-giants being the exception to many things in the game, because the code does not support them realistically.

*sniff* Dammit! My merchant has no defense against disarm...that's bullshit! :roll:

*sniff* Crap! My warrior has no defense against people hiding...it's not fair! He never gets to see them! Maybe they should make hide a passive skill...you know toggle it on...and when someone looks at you it has a chance of going off... :roll:

I'm with Gilvar, it's perfectly fine as it is.

[Anonymous]

I think each attempt on the same person should have a higher diffaculty, maybe based on the combined wis and AGI scores of the person being disarmed, also, make it a timer that wears off after an IC day or so.

Or more realistically...a lower difficulty...since I'm sure it puts alot of strain on them and wears them down to keep trying to fend off your attempts at disarming them.

Again, people need to quit whining about disarm...it's a warriors skill...your not a warrior and you can't defend against it in a fight? Tough shit.

[X-D]

SNICKER...mighty funny.

No, warriors are the best fighters, and yes they should be, nobody has said otherwise.

Noboby is whining about it.

What somebody may be complaining about is a VERY unrealistic skill, not that it exists, just its current form of existance.

First anon, give me a break, compairing a skill like hide or scan to a combat skill that turns anybody into a merchant, and can be done 20 times in a row without fail to the smartest person around. Bah. Come up with a real arguement please, and maybe do some hands on research into what you are talking about first, there are only a certain number of methods to disarm someone, and only a complete IDIOT would fall for the same one more then once. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about 2day warriors going against 2day assassins and rangers and halflings and whatever. I'm talking about 20day plus going against 20day plus, a 20day non-warrior fighting class KNOWS weapon combat, sure, he may not have worked on perfecting disarming, but it does not take a rocket scientist to know not to let a certain order of events happen again, else those people would not have lived so long to begin with.

Yup, sure is a skill that works well in a game that is supposed to pride itself on realism and playability. Even better when people that play said game post anon to tell people who are trying to think of ways to improve game to stop whining...Kudos to you.

Oh, and BTW, I've played some rather long lived warriors and I thought the skill was unrealistic then too, as a matter of fact, I practiced in sparring only to have a defense, it was rare for my char to try and disarm more then twice in combat.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I've a had a ranger that was attacked by a warrior.  He was beating the living crap out of the warrior until he was DISARMED FIVE TIMES IN A ROW.

That just seems skewed to me.

[Anonymous]

Heheh, chill man. I'm not trying to be a dick but that all seems perfectly acceptable to me.

20 non-warrior vs 20 warrior in a melee fight...what the warrior is specifically designed to do. Yep, it should go no contest to the warrior every time.

ERS you were a ranger he was a warrior...that's his specialty not the ranger's. Don't see anything at all wrong with that.

I too have played a couple of longer-lived warriors. I've also been a ranger and had happen what happened to ERS. It was an even match until the warrior's expertise in armed combat came into play...disarm...kick...bash...
It sucked, but I have no complaints about it...it's the way it should be.

*shrugs*

I don't think non-warriors should have any special defense against disarm...

Think of it this way:
A warrior who knows the ins and outs of removing someone's weapon from them vs. someone who knows nothing of it (including defending well against it since they themselves don't know how to do it.)
Best thing to do when that warrior starts edging out your non-warrior...run the fuck away...

[Angela Christine]

Evil idea:  Create a secret magicker.  When attacked by a warrior, wait until he disarms you then zap 'em with a spell durring the delay.  That'll put a scare into 'em.


AC

[EvilRoeSlade]

I've just never seen or heard of somebody getting disarmed five times in a fight.

I agree that warrior's are meant to be superior in combat.  But I don't like to see others getting consistantly beaten simply due to the use of one skill.  It isn't kick, and it certainly isn't bash.

It just seems to be me that a 10 day warrior can defeat any character of any other class no matter how much they have spent training, just by employing disarm.

[Koala]

IMHO anyone who is good at the weapons can properly keep the weapon at hand.. He/she cannot reverse the disarm attempt or begin one but those who are strong enough to hold a sword or something should avoid a decent disarm attempt.. I don't think that there won't be a defense against the Warrior's disarm attempt..

Warriors reach up to great levels of disarming after some time but this wouldn't be the most important thing in a combat as it is right now..

I don't know what you think but Disarm is the best (over powered) warrior skill at hand and this shall be lowered at some level..

[Anarchy]

I guess i still hold onto a notion of honor, but whenever i had disarm, i never used it in a fight i was winning. As long as your winning, and doing so quickly, let some punk spam disarm. Chances are they wont score a disarm before you put them into the spot where they spam flee - and with the build up of disarm lag, they will be dead before they can flee.

[Agent_137]

Since AC's post was so short (but oh-so-good), I decided to post a short treatise for her.


The more i learn about the combat code, the more i realize how weak it is. It's not something I'll complain about in general. I accept the fact that this game has a weak combat code but a strong roleplay component. That's fine with me. It's a good trade. -BUT- I reserve the right to suggest improvements in the code hoping that one day armageddon will be a game with solid combat code -and- great rp.

The ability to spam disarm should be fixed. Don't care if you make it passive, add a timer, make it increasingly more difficult per try; i don't care. Disarm defense should also take general parry skill into account, not just disarm. That's like saying I can't parry daggers because I'm not trained in piercing.

bash is pretty good as it is. got real nice long delay. maybe too easy for the bashee to recover, maybe not.

Kick is absurd. It should take more into account for defense than just kick skill. Like parry and shield and evade.

It's been talked about before, but subdue should take more into account, like status of weapons, etc. Not gonna rehash that here.

Most of these skills -could- be used perfectly fine as they are, assuming everyone agreed on what was fair and everyone followed those rules. But no one agrees, and not everyone follows rules. So until the immortals say "this is about how it should be and if you spam disarm we will ban you," you're gonna find problems. Hell, even then, I imagine it's hard for an immortal to spot the guy out of the 60 people online that is spamming disarm.

Code gives the imms a break from being RP police, makes things more fair (from a players POV, not the characters), and gives the players a break from worrying about what's out of the range of proper RP. Of course, it reduces freedom of play, too.

Armageddon is a delicate balance, though, of a MUD vs. a MUSH. We don't want everything coded, nor do we want everything free. And while all players have an opinion, in the end, its those who actually put the hard time in -working- on the game, not just playing it, who get to decide.

I hope they consider my opinions when they stop reading this post and return to working on the game. If not, though, I'll still be playing, and still posting my opinions on the way things should be.

GO TEAM.

[sacac]

(I have never played a warrior (Or anything else with disarm, so I am just speaking from my opinion)

5 times is a bit much in a row,  I agree. (Report them, I think)

And of course it is a very deadly skill, because if you don't have a weapon you Die quickly, no doubts about that.

When in doubt, Flee. don't agree? Ok.
If you know you are going to lose, why stick around to see if you are going to be right?

so.. I like disarm right now.
Because it may be spam. But misses are too! Wow, amazing.
I would like to know when they are attempting to disarm me.
As for a disarm defense, I think that would be good, simply because you could learn how to defend against it realistically.

so no disarming like this because I don't ever want to get a
"The 2 day warrior knocks the axe from your hands!"
"You do amazingly bad damage to the 2 day warrior!"
"The 2 day warrior knocks the axe from your hands!"
"You draw an uber axe of death!"
"The 2 day warrior knocks the axe from your hands!"
"Think krath damn new disarm code!"
"Welcome to armageddon!"

It might be rare if it ever happens.. but I would be the one 30-day ranger that would get killed because of it.

*editted to add*

If a warrior has mastared disarm.. i shouldn't be able to defend against it, just my opinion.

[Anarchy]

I've a had a ranger that was attacked by a warrior.  He was beating the living crap out of the warrior until he was DISARMED FIVE TIMES IN A ROW.

That just seems skewed to me.

Not really. Does it seem Skewed that rangers can kill PCs with a single arrow? Or that magickers can kill you with a single spell, or that assassins can kill you with a single backstab?  Rangers arn't ment to enter close combat, asssins strive to end it quickly, magickers, are well, magickers.  Warriors are the melee kings. I dont have a problem having my 20 day assassin killed by a 5 day warrior. I should of been more careful. I wasn't doing what the assassin class is designed to do. It seems to me alot of folk dont like to flee. If some warrior attacked me, and i wasn't also a warrior, i'd flee and return the favor on my own terms.