Masks

[X-D]

Yup, go 7DV

Sacac, Xan understands that, which is why they wrote

If there were a keywords and a nickname option in char-gen that would fix that.

Currently there is -no- nickname option, so, you have to have nickname/alias as keywords, hence, if you could only contact someone by name then the nicknames in the keyword list would not work now would they?

Me, I'm all for a nickname list on chargen myself.
Somewhere in the docs, hell, might be chargen, it mentions that Zalanthans are careful about giving out true names since that holds power, always wondered why there was not a true name line and a nickname line in chargen myself.

[Mr.Camel]

How about allowing the player to compose a secondary, more generic description that would show instead of the usual one, which would be visible instead of the original one when a mask or something similar is used.

[Lazloth]

How about allowing the player to compose a secondary, more generic description that would show instead of the usual one, which would be visible instead of the original one when a mask or something similar is used.

..on the fly?  It wouldn't suffer the scrutiny of the immortals during the  approval process and you'd wind up with retarded mdescs.  
..in chargen?  How would you know what you're using to obscure your features in advance?

I'd like to see nicknames segregated from keyword list as well.  I would further like the ability to edit the nickname list (maybe 'add' only to the stack; if you could yank your keywords, would be too much room for abuse).

Insofar as contact on name/nick only, there are a handful of cons.  If you can see the person (say there's an elf in the room), where do you draw the line?  Do you allow the psionic phone call then?  Would you then extend to include by race..?  Moreover, if you're looking for a generic templar, soldier, etc..?

[Bestatte]

I was thinking about this earlier - it would require one IMM whose primary role would be to create "abbreviated descriptions" based on main descriptions. But this could be a good thing, because I've seen some doozies of main descriptions that were loaded with typos and -serious- grammar errors. That one IMM would be focusing on them could fix errors before passing them to the final approval phase of the application process.

The idea would be to have all characters come out of chargen with an abbreviated main description. This would have all the characteristics of the main desc, but omitting any details of the nose, mouth, or skin coloring/type. The eyes would still be visible because even wearing sunslits, a hood, and a veil - you can still see someone's eyes under -normal- Zalanthan lighting conditions. In other words - if you can see the figure, you can see his eyes. If it's dark/storming and you can't even see that there's a figure there, obviously you won't see his eyes either

An example - taken from my very first character (I was a brand spankin noob remember - so can it with the snickers about her creamy skin OKAY?) :

Main description:

Feathery brown hair frames the petite woman's face, falling in a tumble over her shoulders. Eyes the hue of rich, fertile soil gaze studiously over a narrow nose and full rosey lips. A short slender scar runs down the side of her chin, marring her otherwise flawless cream-toned skin. Though small in stature, she bears well-muscled yet curvaceous lines.

Abbreviated description:

Eyes the hue of rich, fertile soil gaze studiously over this petite woman's nose and mouth. Though small in stature, she bears well-muscled yet curvaceous lines.

When her hood's up, all you'd see is the second one. If she's wearing any garment that turns her into a "figure" rather than her usual sdesc, you'd see the second one.

And to prevent abuse by twinks, or misunderstood instructions by new players - it would be the IMM who creates the abbreviated description. Maybe not even a "real" IMM - maybe just someone who the Overlords trust enough to write abbreviated descriptions and pass the final app over to the rest of the staff for the usual approval process. They'd have no other function - because something like this would be very time consuming. A secondary and even a third IMM would be able to do the same thing if the primary one is unavailable and can't get these out within 12 hours (since we still want to maintain the 24 hour app process). Or have one IMM whose primary responsibility is to do this during the "American" day - and a storyteller from Europe to handle the night-player application descs.

I dunno - it's just a thought, and there's probably a more efficient way to go about it. But I think the idea has merit, and would certainly solve the issue of people looking at hooded and veiled and otherwise face-covered figures and magickally being able to tell the templar every freaking detail about the guy's face.

[sheep]

I really like the way that masks are dealt with now. If you have a character concept that needs a real mask for some reason, then just tell the immortals and they'll decide if you really need one. I don't see what the big deal is.

If you can't see how being able to conceal both main and short desc could be abused, then you arn't thinking creativly enough. Since everyone seems to be asking for a change, I would personally prefer the idea of a universally available scrutinize skill.

[X-D]

Personally, I don't much like Bestatte's idea...sorry. Partly because I disagree with how visable eyes are, and with a large hood drawn over your head and shadowing your face, then wrapping a gauzy cloth over too, they simply would not be.

I really think that what the game already gives you, for the most part is fine. When somebody has a cloak on, hood up, and face covered (another item) All you should see is the tall thin hooded figure or the short thin hooded figure, or whatever. When you look at them you should get the description of the cloak and the face covering along with any other visable equipment, thats all.

I've had maybe one char so far who may have wanted to hide his features, if played by somebody else, And I may have more in the future, gonna suck if the ability is not there.

Also, many times the need to do so is not planned, it is a sudden need, making e-mailing or wishing up a non-viable method to do so.

[sacac]

ok..
I don't see what a nickname part would add anything that adding it as an extra keyword wouldn't do.

but i agree with X-D, I don't like bestattes idea. because then they would have access to everyone's mdesc and it might spread to ooc knowing who is who when they are disguised.

[Armaddict]

They're saying you can use it as a keyword, but can't be contacted by that nickname, I believe.

But I haven't been following very much, since this thread is probably -not- going to change anything about masks, no matter how much we'd like it to.

[X-D]

Alright, nickname verses current keyword list. Lets see if I can clear some confusion.

Lazloth stated that once "masked/cloaked" IE Mdesc hidden and sdesc changed, that you should only be able to contact with the way by name, not keyword.

Somebody else stated that this would not work because of nicknames, which currently have to be in your keyword list. The rest of us are saying that is a good reason to have a seperate section in chargen for nickname/alias. So, that it would be possible for people to hide mdesc and sdesc and not be found out by twinks simply using the way to find out sdesc by using keywords.

[Bestatte]

ok..
I don't see what a nickname part would add anything that adding it as an extra keyword wouldn't do.

but i agree with X-D, I don't like bestattes idea. because then they would have access to everyone's mdesc and it might spread to ooc knowing who is who when they are disguised.

This has nothing to do with being disguised. It has to do with people wearing hoods and facewraps. Fixing -that- would eliminate any burning need for mdesc masks, no? Right now, everyone already HAS access to everyone's mdesc, even when they have their hoods up and faces covered with wraps. My idea would give a -different- description that removes the facial features, EXCEPT for the eyes, from anyone wearing those things.

[X-D]

Remove the eyes too, specialy the eyes. I'm absolutly 100% sure that if I put on my cloak (yes, I have a hooded cloak...SCA, go figure) And put the hood up IRL that nobody, and I mean NOBODY can tell my eye color under any lighting conditions from more then 2 feet away...hell, I'd bet on more then 1 foot away. And I do not care if your eyes are bright neon pink, if they do not emit their own light, -you- -can't- -tell-.


Anyway, I don't like the idea..mostly because it would be a lot of work for somebody AND increase the amount of time it takes to get an app approved, AND it is more simply solved by a little bit of code work, most of which is in place, but at least it is a one time deal then, not an ongoing job for somebody.

[sacac]

alright, thank you X-d
Thank you bestatte.

But I still don't like it.
Don't ask why, but I just have a bad feeling...

[Bestatte]

Oh well - I gave it a shot. I guess I don't really have any problem with these mdesc masks existing, OR not existing, or existing only with imm intervention.

I do agree with the idea that it's just WAY too easy for people to abuse (and often not even intentionally or consciously) the fact that we as players can see main descs while looking at people wearing hoods and facewraps or veils. And given that agreement, I figured there has to be -some- way to remedy that, because you just can't keep tabs on every single player just in case he happens to mess up and forget that he shouldn't be seeing the guy's tattoo on his nose.

[Anarchy]

This is on the fly here, and im only half serious...

Since we have tattoos IG, why not have an "eye" location for tattoos - and have "eye color" tattoos, and hair colour tattoos - You cannot see the colour of someones eyes if they are wearing sunslits, IMO, they are a thin slit.

Im in favor of mdesc hiding masks/hoods, combine it with the above idea, assess command, and look, you could get the basic  build, shape, eye colour, hair colour, etc.

[Xan]

This is on the fly here, and im only half serious...

Since we have tattoos IG, why not have an "eye" location for tattoos - and have "eye color" tattoos, and hair colour tattoos - You cannot see the colour of someones eyes if they are wearing sunslits, IMO, they are a thin slit.

Im in favor of mdesc hiding masks/hoods, combine it with the above idea, assess command, and look, you could get the basic  build, shape, eye colour, hair colour, etc.

I really like this.  Have sunslits wearable over the eyes to cover them up.  Sure it may not be as descriptive but thats the point, mdescs are for the pale blue eyes with flecks of gold, but details like eye color are the general stuff you want left general so that it cant be picked up specifically from syntax like player written descs.

What I like the best is the requirement for multiple items.  Heavy cloak and facewrap means no mdesc.  Sunslits means no eye color showing.  Eq to hide appropriate tattoos, change clothing so that isnt recognizable.  Makes the criminals work for it and take forethought but still allows some realism in this.  Thats my take on it at least.

[Lazloth]

You guys are on crack.

[Forest Junkie]

You guys are on crack.

Better than da shit in my forest.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

If you can't see how being able to conceal both main and short desc could be abused, then you arn't thinking creativly enough.

Humorously enough, I don't think anyone is suggesting that it can't be abused. What I think that many are saying is that it is far more likely to be abused the way it is now than it would be if the hoods actually hid who you are.

Furthermore, let me say that I am in support of X-D's idea, of using three items to fully cover up with (THough I'd presonally say that some cloak (long ones) and a veil or face-wrap would work fine, so just two).

As a side idea, I have often pondered the following, and simply bear with me here. I've often thought that the desc process should be broken into four parts; Head, Body, Arms and hands, and legs and feet. If this occured, hooding and masking would become more effective and in this case, more elaborate.

Additionally, I don't care if you cannot contact someone because they gave you a false name. Kill the keyword BS. You should be able to have a nickname, addable in game, and the list should be stackable. THat would be fine.

But when I contact grey, I should get a lizard, or some NPC, or something scarier. I should not be able to contact you because you are the lone grey-eyed man in the game. That's insane, and that also makes it a ton harder to get away with robbing folks and getting away from hunters.

I don't care how tight the Way is, and how familiar the world is with it, they should not be able to contact the tall, hooded figure. That's stupid.

In the end, masking things should be not common, but not uncommon. Control that as you will. The Way should be name-dependant, as opposed to key-word dependant. If you want realism, then do this. If you do not want realism, then don't.

*shrug*

Anarchy, I already submitted that idea, for eyes and such. We'll see how it goes.

[Stroker]

If I want realism, I'll go to the Sahara Desert, make a half-giant sized sword out of obsidian and start building a city called Allanak. Then, I'll change my name to Tektolnes and order mass genocides every odd year.

[Fiercecow]

Well.. i'm new here, so I don't know how much my opinion counts but anywas..

I think that allowing masks and things to cover up your mdesc is a good idea cuz I can't really think up any good reason to not let it. Currently I feel the whole mask thingy is unrealistic cuz right now, if you're wandering around in the desert and some raider comes up to you wearing a veil, mask, and a heavy hooded cloak you'll still be able to see details like the scar he has on his cheek, while in real life you probably won't be able to see anything but how tall and how fat he is.

just my newbie opinion

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

If I want realism, I'll go to the Sahara Desert, make a half-giant sized sword out of obsidian and start building a city called Allanak. Then, I'll change my name to Tektolnes and order mass genocides every odd year.

Hah. You're funny.

[X-D]

For the record, I had said two to three items.

Though I think two is plenty, large hooded cloak/duster and a face covering.

And I agree the way should not be keyword usable...probly already could already tell that since I'm for a nickname option being seperate from the keyword list.

[Bestatte]

About the whole keyword thing - I disagree.

I am horrible with names - great with faces though. I write everything down for my characters because of it - but if I forget, THEY wil also be horrible with names...and good with faces.

I recognize my neighbors - but I have no idea what their names are. If there was such a thing as the Way in real life, why would I need their name to find their minds? I know when they're around, I know what they look like, I know where they live, I know what kind of car they drive, I know that they like barbeque on saturdays with their kids...blah blah blah. I KNOW THESE PEOPLE. The Way shouldn't require knowing a person's name to contact them. It should just require knowing them.

For that reason - I would think "figure" should be eliminated from psionic contact. It's the use of "figure" that is so easy to abuse, not all those keywords that come with their sdesc. Their sdesc is -supposed to be- made up of their most recognizable features. Those things that people will notice immediately when they see them. Whether some players choose to adhere to this guideline is another matter entirely - and it would be great if that was a little better enforced.

You're a human who set your character's height as being in the top half of the suggested human height range - you assess -v figure and see he's the same size as you and a human - and yet, the next day the same guy walks in with his hood down and he's "the short green-haired man"? As far as I'm concerned that's cheating - or a rather significant mistake of a new player that the staff -should- address before approving the application.

If the "figure" goes around pking and running away, when he comes back with his hood down he won't be a suspect - because everyone is looking for someone the same height as me - and we're watching a "short man" walk into the room...no one will even bother checking him.

So - I'd like to see "figure" cease to be a keyword regarding the Way - because no, it doesn't make sense to be capable of "envisioning" the image of some anonymous figure. If you have no idea what they look like, OR you don't know their name - one or the other, not necessarily both, then you should not be able to use the contact skill to way them.

[Anonymous]

I am pretty surprised at this, actually.  I once obtained several mask items, and asked the account if it would be okay to distribute them, or if they wanted to keep them limited.  They were fine with me distributing them.  Is this an official announcement, about the masks?  Should we typo/bug mask items that we find in-game?

[wizturbo]

I don't think anyone can rationally say its difficult to conceal your features.  But, this is a game.

Giving people this capability is risky.  So...easy solution if you ask me.

Make the use of masks that cover up your main description karma dependent.  If you have sufficient karma, the staff trust you enough to be able to use description concealing items without abusing them.  Set the karma level at whatever is appropriate.

For those who don't have the karma, but strongly feel they should have access to this, requests could be made to the immortals just like any other unusual ability.


I'm not worried at all about experienced, responsible players having access to this.  Its just irresponsible or new players, who could potentially abuse this and make it a real annoyance to everyone in the game.

(Code wise, it could simply be the 'mask' command.  Usable with any mask object.  People without this ability, could simply wear it like normal and have it do what it does now, and cover up the s-desc)