Weapons for off-hand

[eska]

I'm not sure if I've sent the same message before. (I'm too lazy to write my ideas on the board.  :oops:)

When I want to buy a weapon for the use in my off-hand, I simply go to the store and check what is for sale at that time. I like a weapon and check it..

View sword
The sword is made of obsidian and sharpened. It's curve seems very deadly while its well-balanced.
The sword is the type of slashing weapon.
You test the sword and decided you can use it.

OOC: Great.. I scored.. That's the thing I really needed...

buy sword
es sword
You cannot hold this.

See the problem here.. Although I tested it I couldn't get any idea if I can hold it or not.

I think one more line can be added on the view message about if the character hold that weapon or not.. Also I've never recieved such a message in Arm yet..
This weapon is too heavy for you to use in your off-hand...
So if there's such a code about this too, that also could be added to the view message..

[Ghost]

I recommend reading the main description.  Some weapons have in their main desc something like "light" or "heavy" weapon.  If it says heavy and if it is emphasizing it, it is for the primary hand.  If it does not, well, you need to read the whole main description and try to guess.

Well, but I agree that a message like:

"You can only wield it in your primary hand" would be neat

[eska]

Ghost wrote:

I recommend reading the main description

I always read the description of the everything in Arm.. That's the only way I make the image of that thing.. Also having light or heavy in the description makes no sense, since the strength of a character can vary. Some weapons can never be hold like some longswords..

[X-D]

Heh, I think a few lines should be added really, or some things taken out, not sure which.


Though, I mostly disagree with an item that can be used one handed not being used off hand, specialy since it is across the board and not racial nor does it have anything to do with str.

I bug the items though since it is possible that the item is simply flagged wrong.

A weapon that an ave str elf can't use off hand but can use primary, that same weapon a half-giant also cannot use offhand.

But if you really want to see something extremly annoying sometime, pick up a shield with your AI str dwarf, look at the desc first, alright, the shield is 1 cord shorter then your dwarf, when you picked it up it gave the very light or no problem message. Hold shield, This shield is too heavy for you to use....ep shield...it is too heavy for you to wield.  Ha, why, because either the shield is -dwarf or has a min -size- flag...blah

I'm all for an extra line though, since we already have the one for etwo under view item, why not a cannot be used off hand line?

[Anonymous]

IMHO weapons should either be flagged as ep and es or just etwo.  I don't understand the logic in being able to hold it in one hand but not the other considering that there isn't that much difference in strength between the two.  At least for me.

[Angela Christine]

IMHO weapons should either be flagged as ep and es or just etwo.  I don't understand the logic in being able to hold it in one hand but not the other considering that there isn't that much difference in strength between the two.  At least for me.

Sure, you could use a spear or a battle axe in either hand.  I think the point of some weapons being ep only is so that you don't use large weapons in both hands at the same time.  Fighting with two daggers makes sense, fighting with two battle axes is a little odd.  Some characters, particularily half-giants, ought to be able to use large weapons that way, but most should not.  Giants should also be able to use some etwo weapons as one handed weapons, but they can't.  So far the code can't take those variations into account.

To me the off-hand weapon is primarily for parrying, and taking the occasional strike of opportunity.  I don't try to wield a 7 foot long spear of doom in my off hand, because trying to manipulate just one long spear is difficult, trying to use two at the same time would be pure chaos.  Using something like a parrying dagger or a small club seems more sensible to me.

On the other hand there are times I would like to be able to "change hands" rather than having to sheath my primary weapon, then draw my knife or "change hands es ep" my knife to skin something.  But that's just because I'm lazy.


AC

[spawnloser]

Uh, AC...why not make an alias that does 'change hands ep es' ?

[Delirium]

Because she can't weild her big primary weapon in her off hand.

[Bestatte]

Because if your primary weapon isn't "holdable" but only "wieldable" then "change hands ep es" won't work, and neither will "change hands es ep" if you are wielding your primary non-holdable weapon at the time.

Just like with a bow- you can't wield it, you can only hold it. That isn't gonna present the same issue..

But if you have a battleaxe that can't be "held" in primary, and a dagger in secondary, and want to skin the critter, you have to either rem or sheath the battle axe before you can "change" the dagger into your primary hand.

[Delirium]

Which I don't see as a problem, personally.

Heh.

I think it would realistically take two hands to skin an animal.

[Linedel]

Actually, in RealLife(TM) (LARP!), I sometimes (usually) use the heavier (usually borrowed) weapon offhand because I don't need as much control to parry. The blade I own is 4-6 inches short of a regulation IFGS sword, and weighs probably half most other swords people use, it is significantly smaller.  One could also point out that your main hand weapon should be your most familiar;  I know how my sword will turn with a certain amount of force, I don't know a borrowed sword.

That said, I'm low power, low risk, precision type of fighter, so it fits my style to have the more controllable weapon in my "primary" hand.  I also tend to do silly things like use the offhand/parrying weapon to trap weapons so I can go around/over with mainhand.  It's a style thing... can't really argue offhand should always be lighter.

What I find more relevant than weight is where the center of gravity of a weapon is, more than the weight.  A sword with the balance point 1-2 inches up the blade is much "better" for my style than one with a heavy blade, because I use a lot of wrist.  A heavy weapon may be better for someone that does full arm swings frequently, as it is going to have more force when it does hit.

I have no opinion about the in-game stuff... just throwing a counterpoint to the "offhand should be lighter" thing.

[X-D]

Being a flourentine style fighter myself (IRL SCA) I can say, any weapon I can wield in one hand, I can wield in the other.

Now, this does not mean I can fight with them...I can use a bastard sword in either hand, but attempting to fight using two at the same time would be stupid.

What I would find interesting (though it would require a tiny bit of coding) Would be if all one hand weapons were ep or es but some would have an extra flag that would just check against the second weapon, if the second weapon had the same flag it would not allow the use of both at the same time, thus preventing some of the sillier (IE less realistic) combinations.

Also, for the record, in flourentine, if done properly, there is no primary or secondary, both weapons are equal in attack and defense, I prefer two maces myself, of equal size and weight.

But still, as far as the game is concerned, if we must keep the current method, a line in view telling you something is not holdable would be nice.

[spawnloser]

I'm with X-D...while not SCA, I am a decent knife fighter (been done for show/performance) and when fighting with them, there is no primary and secondary.  The only correlation for the mud that I can make would be that we must have pretty damn good dual weilds.

[Trenidor]

I also agree with X-D. I could use any weapon I use in my primary hand, (right hand) in my left hand jsut as good as my right, but I'm not the kind of person that would do two weapons at a time.

I'd have to say that's the reason we have primary and secondary hands...

this could refer to you using your left hand as primary, even if you are right handed. You could use your right hand as primary, or left hand, in combat on armageddon the onyl thing I'd say that really mattered was your RP about it.

Also, In flourentine (don't trust me 100% I'm not an expert) they don't use heavy stuff like say a longsword in both hands, they use lighter stuff.

[Carnage]

Being a flourentine style fighter myself (IRL SCA) I can say, any weapon I can wield in one hand, I can wield in the other.

...

Also, for the record, in flourentine, if done properly, there is no primary or secondary, both weapons are equal in attack and defense, I prefer two maces myself, of equal size and weight.

I find it hard to believe you're well versed in that style of fighting when you repeatedly mispell it and call it 'flourentine' instead of 'florentine'. If you've been studying something like that for enough time to get good at it, I'd expect you to know how it's spelt, unless your style is completely different and involves wielding a bag of flour in each hand.

I am a decent knife fighter (been done for show/performance) and when fighting with them, there is no primary and secondary.

I can fishtail my car around a corner and make it look cool. That doesn't make me a decent stunt driver.

Let's all drop the ego, all right?

[Armaddict]

You don't have to be able to spell a word to know what it means.

[Carnage]

You don't have to be able to spell a word to know what it means.

No, but it certainly doesn't help your credibility when you can't correctly spell the word that defines something you've spent quite a bit of time doing.

[Agent_137]

I find it hard to believe you're well versed in that style of fighting when you repeatedly mispell it and call it 'flourentine' instead of 'florentine'. If you've been studying something like that for enough time to get good at it, I'd expect you to know how it's spelt, unless your style is completely different and involves wielding a bag of flour in each hand.

...
I can fishtail my car around a corner and make it look cool. That doesn't make me a decent stunt driver.

Let's all drop the ego, all right?

Way to add to the thread. That post is about as worthless as . . . this one.

:mrgreen:

[Forest Junkie]

Yeah yeah, we all know Carnage is an ass, but hell, you have to admit he's one funny sumuma beyatch.

He's far more cynical than myself, in any case. I think that calls for a toast.

[Agent_137]

I agree.

*toasts*

[X-D]

Aside from freely admitting to being a crappy speller, and not giving a shit if people dislike that, since none of the good spellers here or anywhere else taught themselves to read at age 3. Lets see, posting on spelling on something having anything to do with hands on experiance...lets see...hhhmm, OH, NOTHING, not a god damm thing to do with it...wow, amazing. Oh wait, I'm replying to a carnage worthless near flame post, so it is not all that amazing.

Now, if I read a post from somebody I know spells for shit but suddenly they have every odd word in a post spelled properly, well, I'd think they were full of shit on any practical experiance and just looked everything up like a copy and paste, betting it took carnage all of 20 seconds to click dictionary.com to check on the spelling since he had no other useful things to say on the post or the thread for that matter. But well, that is normal. but, by the way, "study" and "practice" are two different animals, you go ahead and grab all the books and web pages you want and "study" away at whatever fighting style you wish, then take on somebody who has only practiced.

Now, let me break this down quick, will not take long.

Being a flourentine style fighter myself (IRL SCA) I can say, any weapon I can wield in one hand, I can wield in the other.

Hhhmm, Nope, at no point did I say I studied such a thing in any way, as a matter of fact, I was told by another SCA member that it was the name of the style quite a while -after- I was fighting in said manner. But then, some people are not physicly capable of some things so must instead take out on others in some belittling manner in an anon electronic forum.

Oh, hey Trenidor, I did sort of address this:

Also, In flourentine (don't trust me 100% I'm not an expert) they don't use heavy stuff like say a longsword in both hands, they use lighter stuff.

here

I can use a bastard sword in either hand, but attempting to fight using two at the same time would be stupid

Most people who use a two weapon style prefer two smaller equal size weapons or one heavy and one light, or a pair of heavy short weapons and a few other combinations.

{Disclaimer}
(X-D fully expects to get yelled at for flaming or have this post deleted though he thinks he only answered back in kind)

[Armaddict]

I'm with X-D.

Well said, by the way

[Anonymous]

Posting in these forums is like being in an abusive relationship, every day you hope it changes and every day it kicks you down the stairs.

[Armaddict]

Yeah.

I always say abusive relationships are like talking.

[BeatenOne]

Yeah, this reminds me of the time I played out the concubine to Tektolnes, trust me, I know all bout abusive relationships.