Short Skirts in Allanak: Elegant or Inappropriate?

[Anonymous]

Hey, maybe some of us find 'shady' folk attractive.

Yaknow, the whole 'bad boy/bad girl' attraction factor.  

[Callisto]

Not sure how all of this got started - do you have any idea how difficult it is to get anything shorter then a knee-length skirt in Allanak? The last time I had a character who didn't dress like a 'butch', it took me almost four real-life weeks to get the garment special ordered.

I don't think we'll ever see a problem with short skirts in Allanak, since they are just so difficult to find. On the topic of Allanaki 'dress code', I thought I would mention it gets a little strange when every non-combative commoner is dressed in the finest of silks. That, in my opinion, is far more strange then a noble looking to wear an ass-hugging short skirt.

A while ago someone commented to my character with the basic statement of 'why don't you wear silk, are you poor?' like it was strange for a commoner on the upper crust not to be wearing a pile of silk and gaudy jewelry all the time. The commenting chracter had a 'rinthi accent, no less.

Is it just me, or does it seem to be entirely too easy for any commoner to dress as well, if not better, then most nobles? I'm sure everyone will hate the idea, but maybe the price of silks could be raised? Its just a very odd situation when ex-rinthers are suggesting you need a hand out because you aren't wearing silks and sapphires.

Just a thought.

[creeper386]

I hardly think the prices of ANYTHING should be raised, if I start a character that is supposed to be dressed halfway decent(Not in rags or armour but not in silks or anything either) It's already really freaking expensive.

I think all you all must cheat or something, saying everything is underpriced when from my view point, the world is a VERY poor place, I don't see how things may from fairly common materials like a bit of leather and some bone, would cost several thousand sid.

I think the prices already are too overflated for the world, and don't see how you people get so much money! I can't find any! And thats how it should be.

Creeper

[John]

I agree with Creeper. I myself dress my character the way he should be. I often read the information about clothing when I go shopping for my character and buy according to his status in life. The following is all just my opinion.

Cambric: Worn by city slickers who aren't very high in life. Typically apprentices, or lowly shopkeepers.
Canvas: Rarely worn as clothing, but when it is, it is by those of very low status, typically slaves who aren't going to be in a noble's prescence often, but need something a bit better then just rags.
Cotton: Typically worn by city slickers who are just your ordinary every day people, such as shop keepers and crafters.
Damask: Worn by nobles and those that work for nobles. It can be made out of silk, linen and cotten so therefore Nobles would wear it in it's silk form, upper servants would wear it in it's linen form (linen is rare) and lower servants would wear it in it's cotton form.
Escru wool: Worn by people who are often outside but generally live near a city. Typically worn by richer farmers as it provides protection from sand.
Hemp: Worn by crafters of mediocre status. It would be worn by physicians that aren't in a House or slaves of lower status and not often in the prescence of a noble. ONLY worn in the Northlands though.
Linen: Worn by Upper servants as it is generally originates from the Tan Muark.
Sandcloth: Worn by common hunters and those that have to make their living outside of the city.
leatherwear: Worn by hunters who belong to a house or a successful and guards.
Silk: Worn by Nobles and very rich people only. It would rarely be found among servants, except those of very high status.

In Allanak Nobles dictate the styles often wearing outrageous things. I imagine that the commoners would often wear clothes that are very similar to what nobles wear, however not as outrageous and of lesser material. The reason for this would be because they want to mimic their betters as much as possible (like Cairhienen from the Wheel of Time series).

One time I was working for a noble, and he demanded I wear silk, and he had only just hired me. Now this is perfectly acceptable, as I reflect upon him, however I'd like to think that being a servant, especially a newly hired one, he wouldn't want to pay money for silk and would want me to wear similar clothing to him however made from lesser material.

That's just my 2 'sid.

[Socko]

It might be safe to assume that if you're able to afford it, you've got the social standing and status to wear it.

Of course, the social standing might not be a constant, since you could've just robbed someone blind, or found the money in a sack in some alleyway, or pried a diamond from some freshly assasinated merchant's corpse, ect.. and on top of that, you could be a rinthi that did any of the above.

It still -might- be safe to say, though, that if you can afford it without giving away your savings, you can wear it if you want.

The main problem, then, is that people make too much money.. which is true in the right places.

Unless there's some sort of sumptuary/luxury law.. and there already is some form of that within some circles in Allanak, I don't think that there's much of a problem.

[SwanSwanHummingbird]

I don't think that prices should be raised, but that the money you get from crafting should be greatly reduced on some items.  Really, the economics of all crafting items should be overhauled, imo.  Often, the raw material is worth more than the crafted item, or you can make 30 times profit from a simple crafted item in other cases.  Both extremes should be eliminated to make everything make sense.  No more buying materials for 7 sid, and selling the finished product for 70.  Or, buying materials for 50 and selling the finished product for 30.

[Eclipse]

I don't know if this was posted already but here's a quote from the documentation:

Hemlines are generally shorter in the northlands, where an above the knee skirt is considered acceptable, but would mark a woman as being of decidedly ill repute in the south.

From http://www.armageddon.org/general/clothing.html

[Sanvean]

Really, the economics of all crafting items should be overhauled, imo. Often, the raw material is worth more than the crafted item, or you can make 30 times profit from a simple crafted item in other cases. Both extremes should be eliminated to make everything make sense. No more buying materials for 7 sid, and selling the finished product for 70. Or, buying materials for 50 and selling the finished product for 30.

Naephet's in the process of doing this, but it's a pretty huge undertaking.

[Deathtakeusall]

Short skirts are great
but i think we should introduce thongs to allanak

Thong underwear you mean, thongs already exists everywhere in Allanak because Thongs are simply small strips of material. And yes, there is Thong underwear, good luck finding it though

[Impska]

I'm going to take up the original question and add to it.

If hemlines are generally long in Allanak, are we assuming that the style is more modest? If so, would most Nakkis turn their nose up at doing business with a Kadian agent who was dressed in a suit of skin-tight leather, with holes going up the legs, to show off the most skin possible, and her boobs hanging out? After all, if a short hemline marks you as of ill-repute, then that would basically make it look like you were sitting down to talk business with a prostitute.

And since I've used a Kadian as my example, would one want to do business with a Kadian who looked the very opposite of fashionable? I know that in this case, it's a bit difficult, at any time, there may be only one PC merchant in a house, and you're stuck with them, even if they've got a tail and whiskers. It's just something I wanted to bring up so that said agent/merchant could roleplay appropriately.

[A wandering peasant]

I've noticed that many 'well to do' female characters end up dressing like wanton sluts, but that's their choice I suppose.  Would it affect my business dealings with them?  To be honest, yes.  Dealing with a woman dressed like a two 'sid 'rinth whore (albiet perhaps a bit cleaner) will degrade the worth of what that person is saying and doing.

This is still their choice - dress like a slut, act like a slut, you are slut, doesn't matter what you call yourself.  Deal accordingly.

There are plenty of elengant outfits in the game and feminine clothing to avoid dressing like a provocative alley worker.  Therefore, you can only believe that they are purposefully flaunting their sexuality, perhaps even offering it to be sold.  And no, this does not mean that _I_ believe that a woman dressing in a mini skirt "deserves" to be leered at and the like - but my character probably would - since outfits denote profession and class in the world.

[Anonymous]

Well to-do merchant types should really be dressing for the occasion.

While the average commoner might not have access to multiple outfits, a Kadian very well might should, and he or she should, IMHO, dress in a way that fits business when necessary or be prepared to face whatever IC results.

That being said, I'm kinda reticent to rely on a statement written in a doc several IC decades ago.

4 or so decades ago being a professed homosexual was just a bit above pedophile in the order of social deviancy.

Today its accepted.

Just a decade ago you didn't hear ass on TV.  Now they show them and say shit.

Just a decade ago.... You get the idea.

So, who's to say that fashion hasn't shifted?  Maybe wearing leather pants tight enough to display the armadillo in your trousers has become socially accepted.  Maybe nipping out while talking to a noble gave a merchant a decided edge when trying to make a sale so because of the pressures of the market place, every breast in Allanak is on display.

Or maybe its gone the other way.  Maybe leering and filthy elves have just gotten to be too much.  Maybe there's roving gangs of mini-membered-men are running around beating down all those bulge-sporting perverts that make their wives back at the shanty town blush.

Well, anyways...my point is that fashion probably shouldn't be enforced in a document.

Most of the time what's in is what's new.  Works that way in the game and in real life, I've found.

[SwanSwanHummingbird]

Fashion changes quickly in the real world, that's true...but in a world where technology changes only slowly, if at all, fashions and customs would change slowly as well.  Basically, modern society changes at an incredible pace, so it shouldn't be used as a guideline.  I think the general fashions of each region can be written down in a document, since it's likely they wouldn't change much at all over the years.  Especially vague things like "Allanak is conservative regarding women's clothing."

[Anonymous]

Fashion changes quickly in the real world, that's true...but in a world where technology changes only slowly, if at all, fashions and customs would change slowly as well.  Basically, modern society changes at an incredible pace, so it shouldn't be used as a guideline.  I think the general fashions of each region can be written down in a document, since it's likely they wouldn't change much at all over the years.  Especially vague things like "Allanak is conservative regarding women's clothing."

Its a good point, and I won't claim to be able to know one way or the other.

Perhaps you are right.  Hmm.  I would imagine that at least two generations have passed since that document was drawn up, though, still, nowhere near enough time for that significant of a change in society to take place if Zalanthan society is like medeival times in that respect.

Thanks.

[Angela Christine]

You don't need a document to control fashion, that is what NPC shops, and to a lesser extent NPCs themselves, are for.  If Kadius is selling something as part of their regular inventory, you can assume it is something they think plenty of classy people would want.  (Although it could be something they want to dress their mistressess in in private, not public).  So ideally the imm in charge of rotating the stock in the shops keeps local standards in mind.  The clothing availible in the elven outpost is very different from that available in Allanak, which I hope reflects the differences in fashion standards.

You can special order clothing, buy clothing from PC tailors, or have clothing imported from another city, and you may get something that will raise eyebrows.  Clothing bought from shops in for which you are the target market should be appropriate for your place in society.  There is usually some difference in fashion between the elite and the commoners, a noble lady might show more skin than the average commoner.

AC

[Dazed and Confused]

Do women actually need to wear skirts at all?

What is wrong with "au naturale"?

[Nineveh]

Being blasted with sand whipping around at full strength is what's wrong with walking around au natural.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Dwarves, elves, muls, and half-giants are four other things that are very wrong with au naturale.