Flee idea.

[jhunter]

I think there should be a delay when someone attempts to flee combat. Also I believe there should be a free attack against someone trying to flee combat.

Basically something like:

flee

You begin looking for an opening to escape.

*Free attack from attacker with a bonus to hit.*

You flee heading east.

Something like that anway. What do the rest of you think of this?

[UnderSeven]

I don't like this idea.  Mainly because npcs which arn't affected by delay will therefore be able to kill you with that free hit and instantly following you.  Playability would suffer.  Maybe if this were all a PvP game it would be an okay idea, though I havn't even considered it due to how it would affect PvNpc.

[sarahjc]

I think it is fair, but I think it should be combated with agility.  Granted if you are looking for a way out you are not wholly paying attention to your attacker, but you may be quick enough to dodge out of the way on your escape. There should however definitely be a delay on flee I think.

Juts my thoughts.

[X-D]

what underseven said.
Plus, I don't see how you think you get a free hit with a -bonus- on somebody moving away from you. I also don't see reason for the delay, I don't know about anybody else, but I'm planning flee long before I type in the command 95% of the time, though I'm certainly not going to warn the person that when he is recovering from his next swing I'm gonna bolt.

[jhunter]

Plus, I don't see how you think you get a free hit with a -bonus- on somebody moving away from you. I also don't see reason for the delay, I don't know about anybody else, but I'm planning flee long before I type in the command 95% of the time, though I'm certainly not going to warn the person that when he is recovering from his next swing I'm gonna bolt.

Because it's the same reasoning that someone gets a bonus hit when trying to pick something up during combat...in order to get away your attention must leave them (even in part)...you wouldn't be able to escape someone backing away in the middle of combat and keeping your attention fully on them because they are pressing attacks on you...your going to have to find an opening to -try- and escape and then go for it.

You bolt, and I drill you in the back on your way out....it's not like I'm just going to stand there and watch you run away...I'm going to press my attacks as you try to get away.

The delay is for you waiting for an opportunity to escape...it doesn't mean it has to echo to your opponent that it's what you are trying to do.

I'm not saying the bonus has to be big or anything either...it's just too damned easy for people to escape combat when they are outmatched IMHO.

[UnderSeven]

I agree that escaping combat is really easy, but I think untill npcs are affected by lag as well we shouldn't put this in.  For instance most pcs have kill lag.  If yuo don't want to fight and flee just as you're attacked, an npc who doesn't have any lag will be able to just keep attacking, nothing at all stopping them, in which case flee would become almost completely useless when engaged with an npc.

I don't think it's a bad idea, I just think the code isn't ready for it.

[spawnloser]

Yes, and it's too easy to trap people so they can't escape too.  One of my characters died when I should have been able to hop out of a window and escape.  Unfortunately, there was no time to wish up and I didn't feel like pressing the issue.

Both could be considered problems, so why isn't anyone arguing for it to be both easier and harder?

[SailorMars]

I'm not saying the bonus has to be big or anything either...it's just too damned easy for people to escape combat when they are outmatched IMHO.

I agree, but don't think a free hit is the answer. I'd like to see a more sophisticated flee skill check. Something like this:

1) Type flee.

2) Mud does some math.
2a) It checks your fleeing skill.
2b) It checks the fighting skill of your opponent.

3) Mud does some more math for the modifiers.
3a) It checks how many exits there are in the room.
3b) It checks how many opponents are on the person trying to flee.

4) Mud does some more math to figure out what happens.

Fighting skill of opponent, +/- bonus/penalty for # of room exits, +/- bonus/penalty for # of opponents trying to flee from >= fleeing skill, the flee check fails. If it's <= the fleeing skill check, the flee check succeeds.

The net result would be if you're in a room with one exit, it's harder to run away. If you've got several people attacking you, it's harder to run away. If you're a much more experienced warrior, it's easier to block someone trying to flee, and to know how to get away yourself.

Thoughts?

[JollyGreenGiant]

My thought on this is - balance in all things.  There are more ways for two characters to be fighting than simply slugging it out with swords, and if you change the flee command, it needs to be done in such a way that you don't do so to the benefit of a couple of classes, and the detriment of all the other classes.  I think the idea, as it is proposed here, will give warriors and rangers too much additional leverage against sneakier classes and magickers.

[jhunter]

I like SailorMars ideas, sounds alot better than what I originally suggested.

As for the balance thing, I think it's extremely unbalanced that anyone can escape anyone else regardless of class or skill very easily.


There are subguilds that are said to get a bonus to escaping combat also which would factor into it.

[Ghost]

I think the code already supports SailorMars' idea.  Am I wrong?

[Agent_137]

i sometimes fail flees now. I hope this is based on something more than just my measly flee skill.


I would like to see deeper levels of coding for factors in all things, flee is one of those.

GO TEAM.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I think the code already supports SailorMars' idea.  Am I wrong?

You are.

I agree with Jhunter's sentiment that it should be harder to escape combat, though I don't particularly care how it is accomplished.

Personally, I think the bash skill should be not useless.  And when I say that, I mean it should do what it says it does in the helpfile.  If you succeed in bashing your opponent, you shouldn't suffer any lag, but your opponent should suffer the lag that you would if you failed bash.

The only NPCs that I've had any trouble whatsoever escaping from is NPC soldiers.  Other NPCs may not suffer lag, but they do wait a few seconds before chasing you and you can usually escape.

NPC soldiers will not be fixed.  They are coded in this manner on purpose.  So the arguement revolving around NPCs doesn't hold any water for me.

[Sir Diealot]

I only disliek it because I've been in the SCA, and had fencing lessons for too long for it to make any sense.. Getting out of one-on-one combat is -easy- you let them swing.. parry/dodge, and back the fuck away.. you're attention is pretty much ENTIRELY on getting away from them, so you're not swinging back.. you're just heading for the hills..usually straight back.. or causing them to go in an arc so your back is to the door long -before- you're ready to flee, just in case you have to..

Cambat is a /lot/ more complex in some areas, and a /lot/ less complex in others than a MUD can accurately describe.  Fleeing is made easy because..even on rocky terrain, in a storm..I can get away from the guy who's focused on attacking me.

In fact, the -only- downside to typing 'flee' should be that you stop attacking, but keep up defense.

Which is something about Arm's code that I actually dislike.. You -cannot- just stand there and take it.. the code FORCES you to be insubordinate and fight back.  There is no -stop- command that I've found.

[jhunter]

You would agree though, that it would be much harder to get away from an opponent more skilled that you...than one you can easily fend off while you try to get away, would you not Sir Diealot?

[X-D]

Sir Diealot appears to have posted for me, so.

You would agree though, that it would be much harder to get away from an opponent more skilled that you...than one you can easily fend off while you try to get away, would you not Sir Diealot?

Also a SCA member BTW, I would have to say no to this too (not speaking for Sir Diealot) Escaping 1 on 1 melee combat with weapons is rather easy, any action you take with your weapon has a recovery period, you swing at me, and you are basicly imobile for a moment while you recover from the swing, I'm already planning on running, part way through the swing I book, giving me probly a full second before you can give chase, 1 second is a long time btw. The skill of your opponent does not matter much if at all.

Now, escaping 2 or more enemy is another matter altogether.

[Anonymous]

I see what you both are saying, but logic tells me that it wouldn't be the case unless your swinging heavy weapons...and only one of them.

The use of two weapons I would think would cut recovery time in half, as well as how light and easy to manipulate certain weapons may be over others. I can't see it taking one second to recover from a single strike with a dagger or other light weapon...and with another to back it up with...*shrugs*

For example, in a room you can turn and bolt...but that moment doesn't prevent my feet from moving to carry me after you not to mention my exented reach of my weapons...in order to move quickly away from me your going to have to turn around...leaving you defenseless to a rear attack if, with footspeed I can keep up with you.

I'm not an expert on it or anything, but logically it seems it should be much harder to get away from someone in the middle of a fight.

[jhunter]

The above guest was me...oops. :oops:

[X-D]

It is so hard too explain without hands on experiance, but when you take a swing, specialy with a weapon, you become commited to that swing and everything that goes with it, in order to chase after someone you have to be released from the swing commitment first, attempting to run after somebody while in swing commitment will probly land you on your face.

And, I said 1 second in total lead time to the person fleeing that is not just the swing recovery, but also setting yourself into motion to chase after him. Also, I don't turn around to flee, I move in the direction it is going to take you the most time to follow.