A nOOb's perception

[amoeba]

Ok I still consider myself a nOOb (did I get that right?) .  I have been playing here about 3-4 months and I still have a lot to learn, but there were some comments made here on the GDB  that give me some pause to comment in turn.  

First and foremost I want to say that I am very impressed with the game and the people that I have encountered there.  The staff and the players should be proud of what they have created.  

Let me give you some background here.  I have been mudding/gaming for quite some time.  My first full time experience with the Internet was on an old Qume dumb terminal that I took home and hooked up to a screaming 9600 baud modem that I used to connect to Delphi.  This was probably mid 90's or so.  I would play on some Diku S&H muds and some MOOs that were popular in the day.  I played on and off for a number of diferent muds.  In hind sight I was looking for an Armageddon type mud, not so much for the harsh desert thing but more for the "immersive" environment.  I just didn't realize it at the time.    I even coded on one mud for a time, thinking I could help to "make" it more that way.  I have developed a strong respect for IM's after that experience.  

I dropped off the mud scene for a  few years until last year when I decided to see if they still existed.  I was suprised to see a vibrant mudding community.  I started hitting the mud connector and the like and tried a lot of muds.   I had seen armageddon many times but I passed. More on that later.  I tried the RP manadatory muds and settled on one that was consistantly in the top 6.  This particular one ranked 4 or 5 almost with out exception.  I applied, got my name rejected,  applied again and got in.   This was my first real try at a RP manadatory mud.  I was both pleased with and disappointed in it.   There was indeed a strong vibrant role play, and it was enforced, but there were many twinkish aspects to it.  --Kill a chicken, get 2 coins and the like--, but I hadn't seen anything better so I figured this was the best I could get.   I went along for a time, paid my money (yes this was a pay mud).    After a few really twinkish upgrades I started getting sick of the place, so I started looking again.  Finally I tried Arm on a whim and I have never regretted the choice.  

...Btw for those folks who think cheating is going on with the rankings, it is.  I saw from personal experience.  Some people are making some serious money.  $1000.00/ year  would buy you a seat on the King's court and a 5 room house of your design.   Many things were not open to experience unless you payed.  For example you couldn't join a church unless you were at the $150.00/yr or better level.   You could just "role play" being in one.  Odd thing though, there were quite a few people on this mud., or so it seemed.

The question is why did it take near 10 years for me to try Arm?   In the beginning I probably just didn't notice it.  I was new to muds and a RP mud seemed a bit of an odd concept.  More recently I would have to say it was the website coupled with what sounded like a mean sprited concept on the surface.  Remember I wasn't digging in fine detail into the documentation.  I was just looking for a fun place to be.  A site's website IMHO would often tell a lot about how much work had gone into the mud.  A stale site that had not been updated for years would lead me to believe that the same could be true for the game itself.  Images and design on the site would give me insight into the nature of the community and most importaintily of those who ran it.  I am not advocating any changes to anything on Arm, just giving you my approach.  One importaint thing to note.  If I had dug into the GDB and encountered the flame wars, I most certainly would not have applied.  

The odd thing about all this is that Arm is a whole lot nicer and fun than the "friendly" mud.  The one breaking point for me was when I saw the God/Owner of the former mud publicy chastise and humiliate a user over a global channel about a description the person used.  I was personaly embarrassed to see it.   I don't want to give anyone the impression that I want a bunny hugging type of mud.  In fact,  when I was first on, I think I was like 3 hours old, I ran across an elf while wandering about outside.  The guy was as mean and nasty as they come.  I thought he was going to kill me.  After I ran off rather quickly he mindlinked with me and further humiliated me.  When I got into a safe zone, I found myself pissed, scared and wanting to *really* dismember the guy.  Then I thought about it for a moment, one thought went through my mind: "that was cool".  How more "immersive" can you get.  I have also made good friends here and at least one person I can trust.  

I actually like to see the nasty mean folks in the mud.  I don't like to see them on the GDB though.  In the game, I can stay away from them, or hire someone to kill them in rather nasty ways.  In short I can defend myself and resolve the conflict, while furthering the game.  Can't do that on the GDB.

While we are on the subject of the GDB.  I am new to this place, and new people ask rather stupid questions.  I asked about life after death.  The reason is that in the game, I was listening to a discussion about someone's death.  I was about to say: "well I hope that they are in a better place" or some such thing to that effect.  The I realized I don't know what I would believe.  I know nothing about the subject.  My character should.  So I said nothing.  Not good role play there.  I asked on the GDB and got essentially a one word answer: "permadeath."  Besides the fact that that's an OOC concept, more importaintily it didn't help.  I still know nothing.  (btw sorry to whoever said that,  I didn't mean to pick on you. it was just a good example).    Us nOObs have a hard time making conversation in the game.  We have no context in which to speak, no history.  --"Ok I talked about how dusty it is out, and about the dangerous things out there, now what?"--   I can be quite long winded as you can see from this post, but you wouldn't know it in the game.  

I closing I hope to learn from everyone. I have seem some very impressive RP on Arm.  I am working on getting better at it, and I hope to contribute to the experience. Once again a big thank you to the creators and players here, and a special thank you to Sanvean's post on expectaions.

[Agent_137]

it's n00b with two zeros.

Now i'm going to read the rest of your long ass post and edit this post. :mrgreen:

edit:

I have a similiar history to you. I played dragonrealms (a pay mud...shudder) for seven years. I didn't even know other muds existed, and I firmly believed any that did sucked. Of course, it's like your favorite sports team. I didn't even try to find other muds.

Somehow.....(ack, stop, curtail the agent's history talk)

Ok, anyway, i'm pretty n00b too, but i'd reccomend that you devour the docs and don't let the assholes and short tempers on the gdb get to you. In fact, just read the archived threads on here and then ask all your questions in irc, and maybe keep an eye on a couple of choice forums here, and do not finish a thread if it gets boring or turns to flames.

I keep up with the board, i read every single post because i can at work. But i wouldn't reccomend it.

[spawnloser]

Watch out for the assholes in IRC too.  They aren't restricted to the GDB.

Yes, read the documents, but seriously, if you need help and want to ask someone about it immediately, I suggest going to the helpers page found at http://www.armageddon.org/intro/helpers.html and adding every single one to a contact list, if they have a messenger.  That way you can ask someone that is online, willing and able to help.  Ask a few questions, hell.

Also, I read every post too.  Granted, it is tedious at times, but there are nuggets of wisdom about that I think it can be worth it.  Certain forums are more skimmed than anything else, as they won't contain as much.

[SailorMars]

If you want more material for conversation, my suggestion is to pour over the docs. There's a lot of stuff there, and depending on where your character is based, should provide something to talk about. The IC boards (rumor boards) are also decent sources of stuff to talk about. "I keep hearing whispers about so and so, do you think they're true?" Maybe the person you're chatting with will have witnessed something about the rumor, and if not, it could always be gossiped about. One important thing to remember is that people on Arm can be very wary of each other. If someone starts randomly talking with you, maybe they are scoping you out? Seeing what you have. How strong or weak you seem. That's not at all to say that friendly conversation can't occur, but I'd imagine most common people would be highly on guard when meeting new people, at least at first.

For questions like beliefs in what happens after death, that the documentation might not specifically cover, that generally means it's left open for your character to have his/her own unique perspective. But you want some kind of verisimilitude with the world, right? What I've done in the past is look through the docs for anything that might lead to my character's opinion. For example, about life (or not) after death: The Sorcerer-Kings, Tek and Muk rule over the cities. They are thought of like gods by most of the population. Magick is generally feared, and hated if you're a northerner. Tribal elves though tend to have entirely different beliefs than city slickers. You've heard of Suk-Krath's hell pits, is that where the damned are sent eternally? Is there a great oasis somewhere where the good are honored? Hehe, the simple answer is probably that most people don't know, just like IRL. Probably less people have time to think about it too. Philosophy is a luxery for those not worred about their next piece of bread.

Anyway, hope that helps. Welcome to Crackageddon.

Edit: Thought of a couple more things to add...

[EvilRoeSlade]

There is no documentation on an after-life.

There isn't any major religion in the city-states beyond god-king worship.  Other than that, it doesn't matter what you believe.  Just read as much of the documentation as you can and base a decision on that.

[Cenghiz]

Hmm.. But sorrily it's really IC. We can't tell you about the community of X's afterlife belief.. It's forbidden. But as far as I know there's no belief to afterlife in Allanak at least. So no funerals also, in Allanak. You're probably in 'nak, they die and rot and become scrab munchies there.

[Agent_137]

reincarnation always made sense to me. But maybe it's because of my OOC info!

[Trenidor]

When I first started out playing arm, I was a little shy because I didn't know weather or not what I was saying was appropriate for the game. I'd usually avoid asking questions and it ended up slowing my learning process down. I spent nearly a year, maybe more before I knew enough that I could start talking freely to people without feeling that I would say the wrong stuff. Now, I've been playing for three of four years and I still find out new things daily.
I'd encourage asking questions IG to any N00b so they don't feel lost. It's alright to be corrected, IG everyone I've incountered OOC was very polite to N00bs, my favorite was when a person playing a Jerk started telling a n00b how to sit at the bar in an extreemly polite manner. if you get corrected ever don't feel like you're being picked, I'm 99% positive that everyone had to experience the same stuff you did.

[Sir Diealot]

The problem with the GDB is people like me..  Rude, arrogant assholes with nothing better to do once we get off our low-paid jobs/get out of class than to post our vitriol here so we can be noticed.... At least I'm trying to curtail my Flamery now.  :oops:

I'm actually pretty helpful in game, I try to be polite, and as knowledgable as I can be, even though I'm a bit of a n00b myself.

I, personally, think with the new GDB rules, people will be a bit more helpful and a bit less rude, though I still notice a lot of the automated 'Find out IG' responce, which just pisses me off sometimes.. Because sometimes you /should/ know IG, but it just didn't happen to be particularly important enough to have made it into the docs.

[GeekFreek]

Good points. I know I try to help out any n00bs I can. I think it would be awesome if an imm could sometimes find complete n00bs (I know this would be hard for the staff to do  :wink: ) and role-play an ancient bearded man then give the n00b a tour of the city. Show them where to go, where not to, give them some histroy of the region, hunting areas, shops, taverns, popular places, and then give them any help with coding they need. This would be really cool for n00bs just starting out. It would also help lots of us more experienced players. Just an idea.

[Agent_137]

i'd like to see an optional ingame walkthrough, of some sort. Even if it's in a seperate allanak...even if it's automated. I don't care how cheesy it is. The hall of kings is OOC, why not have an optional OOC walkthrough in the game itself, seperate from all the IC players? (aside from coding difficulty)

I know this has been discussed before, and to me it's a good idea, if done properly. If done poorly, it'll greatly detract from armageddon. Just like any other idea...

[Mr.Camel]

You mean a newbie MUDschool?

[Trenidor]

We already have a MUDschool...it's all bookwork though....

"THE HELP FILES"

I say just put in another note to read the help files thoroughly

[Vettrock]

There are people who learn a lot more quickly and effectively by doing rather than just by reading, so I would say that just telling them to read the help files does not have the same effect of a small ooc area in which they can expirement with commands.

[Bestatte]

I realize there are serious implications if an OOC area was created - but hear me out, because maybe someone can twist this idea and turn it into something useful.

In another game I played, there was an OOC area similar to the Hall of Kings. It was -not- a newbie school. You showed up as your account name, not as your character. It was an area that existed in front of the character creation process (in Arm it would be before you get to the hall of kings).

Within these areas, you could experiment with the commands and syntax, except for anything related to combat or stealing. So - no hiding, no ambushing, no kicking, no attacking, no magic.

You could check out how to leave buildings, enter them, look at things, examine things, get things, drop things, talk to people standing and sitting at tables, play with the emote system, etc. etc. etc.

You could also talk to other players..and this is where I accept that it would need to be tweaked. One idea - possibly..is for helpers who are willing to volunteer to hang out in the OOC area, or if their character is idling or solo-rping or otherwise "unoccupied" to allow the helper to quit out and enter the noob area when an echo tells them someone's in there. The game I played before the game I was just talking about - had a "mentor" system that worked kinda like that. The mentor system sucked major ass, mostly because some of the mentors sucked major ass - but the concept is sound I think. It would just have to be Armageddonized.

In any case - I still like the idea of just 2 or 3 rooms where all first-and-second characters on any given account will start out in, prior to their character's existence. Where they can put what they've read on the website to use before they enter the game and get all nervous and stuff.

[mansa]

I like newbies.

I mean to say, if you have any problems, I can help.

In fact, there's a whole list of people who can help:

http://www.armageddon.org/intro/helpers.html

[Dresan]

I'm really new here; I've only been playing a little over a week.  I pretty new to muds too I've only played Achaea right before this and only for 2 months.  When I stumbled upon muds I had a choice of playing Achaea, Armageddon, or Aardwolf.  These three are the only ones really that interested me for a few reasons.  First off I was looking for number of people playing...second was dedication...third was style of playing...fourth was concept.  Between the three I first chose Achaea.  Now the reason I chose Achaea was mainly because of its numbers but because of it's website...it seemed updated and inviting...it screamed out join me, it's easy. After a while, hacking and slashing monsters got stupid and the IC on going story was quite weak, not to mention the credits purchasing needed to advance in level...

Anyways on a whim I decided to give Armageddon a shot. Just to see if the reviews and stories of some of your dedicated player had written in the top mud website were true.  I did and I have to say I'm quiet impressed with the level of dedication and depth of the game. The game is quite fun for me mainly because I want to achieve a certain story for my character and achieving that story is quite a challenge to accomplish (though perfectly ICly plausible).

It's a real shame that the website does not give the game the tribute that it deserves.  I know this is partly because the IMMs and administrators are most likely busy with the game itself but first impressions count and you usually only have one chance.  The game's concept is a lot to take in and in my humble opinion, it can only really be done properly when you have made a character and have been given some real genuine interest in the game...For me it was on my second day of playing, I can't go into the specifics of course (let's just say that my character's background now ICly forces me to have someone high up eliminated), but I was thrown in jail and the experience was such a unexpected surprise that it really got me into the game.  This game has a lot of strength so much so that it tends to overshadow the weaknesses.

Having said all this and mentioning the website's need of a face-lift...I'd like to add that I'm glad I experienced the game and the documentation before I experienced the GDB. Some people are assholes and their names are common since they post their crap and flames constantly over the board and I've come to recognize them in the few days I've been here.  I like to tell some of you that just because people are new does not mean they are stupid and just because some of you cannot figure out why someone may ask something does not mean there isn't reason for it.

Anyways I am glad I'm here and given my time constraints I will attempt my best to add to your world though my gaming.  If you Imms decide to do something with the website you should allow players to submit designs, once that is done it is an easy and quick process to transfer the important documentation using the newer web design tools and you would only have to do things someone first coming into the website would see... ex. Clan documentation would not have to be touched since by them most newbies will be into the game already.

BTW for future reference Dresan=Dre...

[Anonymous]

I hate people who reply to thier own posts  :wink:

A couple of -short- followups

- I read all of the documentation before I ever submitted a character.  I still reread the documentation.  The problem as I see it isn't that there's too little, more that theres too much.  It's like drinking from a firehose.  I takes a while to absorb it all and put it in the correct context.  It kinda leads to the --"pardom me while I research on what to say next"-- approach.  Anyways, most conversations are revolving around gossipy subjects that have a timley nature.  You can only get that in-game.  

-- I actually don't want to see a MUDschool/walkthrough/mentor system.  One of the more fun times I had was when I first started, and the place was truly wierd and creapy.  I would'nt have traded that for anything.  What is best IMHO is for experienced players to interact with "obvious" newbies in an in-character way.  (e.g. take them along on a hunt, help them buy thier first weapon, etc.)  I just started and I have done that a couple of times (blind leading the blind).  

-- If possible it would be nice to have a directed OOC system.  That way one could help a newbie without disturbing the experience of others.  I would like it to only be able to be directed to players below a certain number of hours old so that it would not be abused as a mindlink without the penalty.  Just a thought.

[spawnloser]

As has been mentioned, Guest, having a way to communicate OOC that noone else sees could lead to the newbie being spammed with advice since noone else knows that s/he is being helped by someone else.

[Miee (not logged in)]

I'm agreeing with the guest here except on a few points.

I was discussing the wealth of documentation here with someone else the other night.  We both agreed it was a Good Thing©.  The two other big RPIs (Harshlands and Shadows of Isildur) have a good amount of docs, but not the same.  Speaking for myself, I find the wealth here very inspiring.  You get an idea of how much the code can support you and a ton of information on one* of, what I feel (again), the most important RP tool, the ridiculously flexible emote system.  The sheer amount of documentation drives home the point that you really can be anything here.

Right now, I'm not liking the idea of a "directed OOC system" for the newbies.  Either because I'm uncertain as to how it would work, what provisions would be made for the newbs with "odd" playtimes, or I simply prefer the being thrown to the wolves and learning to fend for myself in the RP enviroment.

*If you're interested, the other most important tool in my reckoning is <think>.

[Bardex]

I'd like to see a directable OOC as well. It could work something like this:

Crowded bar filled with PCs.
Noob shows up and starts spam-walking back and forth and up and down, -obviously- trying to figure out how to get the hell out of the building.

OOC, Joe says,
"The syntax is 'leave.'

Noob says, in noob-accented sirihish, "tx how do u get exp in tihs game"

OOC, Joe says something to Noob.

OOC, Noob says something to Joe.

Noob follows Joe.

Joe and Noob walk west.

The rest of the room realizes that an OOC conversation is going on, and there's no need for them to have to help out since Joe already seems to have it covered nicely. Plus the rest of the room doesn't have to endure line upon line of whatever it is they're saying to each other.

[Miee (not logged in)]

AH!  OK, then that I like.  

Miee throws her backing to the directable (but limited) OOC.

[amoeba]

arrg, sorry the prior "guest" was me.  Logging in from work computer. doh

[Linedel]

Crowded bar filled with PCs.
Noob shows up and starts spam-walking back and forth and up and down, -obviously- trying to figure out how to get the hell out of the building.

OOC, Joe says,
"The syntax is 'leave.'

Yep, that's a good one.  Having restarted playing a couple days ago, after a 7 year or so absence, I couldn't find my way out of the starting tavern for about 10 minutes... no PCs around...

Had I not played back in the day, and realized "Oh yeah.. they started converting (city) to enter-able buildings in the re-write about 8 years ago" and tested "look out," the chances of finding my way out would have been slim to none...  and yeah, I re-read most of the docs before creating.

If all the cities are like this, it may make sense to add a suggestion to read "help leave" to the description in the hall of kings.  Unless of course, it's intentional; forcing people to read documentation until they find it isn't necessarily a horrible thing.

[Bestatte]

Well unless you show up in the middle of some scary battle scene and realize that if you don't get the hell out of there right NOW your 2-minute-old character is gonna bite the dust...

Taking even 10 minutes to read helpfiles in search of a command to do something as mundane as leave a building is ridiculous. But just as ridiculous is having to endure an OOC conversation between two other people simply because the code doesn't allow for the OOC to be directed.

[Angela Christine]

As to the webpages, I think that http://www.armageddon.org/intro/adpage.html could be prettied up some, and maybe the front page too.  But leave the content pages alone.  That means no frames, but frames are way over rated anyway.  And for the love of Tek, please, no Flash!  Flash webpages are the devil.  

Personally I prefer substance to style, but there is no reason you can't have a little of both.  Judging a MUD by the webpage seems shallow, but maybe tht is just me.  Eye candy shouldn't have a high priority, I wouldn't want to pull staff off other projects to polish the webpage, but if someone wanted to pretty it up and could do it without slowing down the website, that would be good.  Not slowing down the website is important, because the game and the website run off the same machine, and a too-fancy website could lead to in-game lag.  (The GDB used to cause in-game lag until they moved it).


AC

[Simillion]

I played dragonrealms (a pay mud...shudder) for seven years.

Amazing you played it that long, and then switched over to Armageddon. If you don't mind me asking, what exactly made you switch?

I used to play that one too, though for nowhere near as long before I got fairly tired of it.

-Simi

[jstorrie]

There's no need for an ooc command.  New players have many, many designated helpers they can contact for advice.  If anything, they should just be encouraged to do so more often.

A lot of the time your character is isolated when they need to figure something out, and can't walk up to an inn for help.  I don't know how I would have managed if I hadn't been able to ask Gorobei about syntax every five minutes when I first started.