Excess weight and blood.

[Sir Diealot]

Very well thought out Trenidor, I like that a lot.  It's realistic, playable, and seems like it would be good for the MUD.

[Trenidor]

The blood loss could be slower or faster than the poision code. The only way to stop it would be to get your HP over the heavly bleeding % that we already have IG (I'm not saying cuz it's IC). Then you'd get lightly bleeding code which would only cause 1-2 hp loss.

Also, your amount of blood loss would combine with the different hits, for example:

You get hit with a wound on the leg, that's only -4 hp by my chart.
Then you get hit by a lightly slash on your body, that's only -2 on my chart

They'd combine to = -6hp every time you lose blood (following the poision code)

And the stats could tie in somehow to how much my bloodloss chart varries. With someone that has a high endurance, would be able to stand loosing more blood than someone with a low endurance, and therefore the amount of points lost would depend mainly on that.

***EDIT*** I thought of something more:
The loosing of your limb or whatever would be caused by an attack higher than a wound if you were using a slashing weapon, a unspeakable damage if you were using a blugeon, critical wound for piercing, and chopping.

When they lose a limb, a thing like a tattoo would be created on that location. A wrist would make a rounded stubb. A shoulder would make a chopped off hump. so on and so forth. The item on them would cause it so no other items could be worn there and would take up that wear location.
They could also vary the type of wearitem by having it be different stuff for the different type of weapon that was used to cut it off.

When someone gets one of these, they could get a ooc prompt that would ask them to make a new main descripion that followed with their wound and submit it so that they could change their description.

[UnderSeven]

This is gettnig a little too realistic for my taste. Not many people want to rp a char missing limbs, it maybe more realistic, but so would havingpeople need to actually use the latrine in game.  


I think we should steer clear of amputations being coded.  

As far as blood loss, I think we should stay simple there too.  A wound of a certain amount of damage, say extremely hard and above or something, causes you to bleed VERY SLOWLY.  I don't think we need to do radical changes here.

As far as aiming goes, I'm not a huge fan of that idea, Someone who is sword fighting can't target a specific location, you have to mix it up or become predictable and easy to defend against.

[jhunter]

Yeah, then we'd have a whole bunch of people who did not wish to play the role of a cripple suddenly forced into playing one or retire their pc...I've a feeling that the latter would be the most often case.

[Sir Diealot]

Don't wanna play a cripple?  Don't get into combat with a Mek.

[Trenidor]

You're playing the char, you have to suffer the consiquences.

I'm sure it'd be fun to play an amputate if I had a real RP reason, if it happened in the game it'd be more exciting. Anyways, if you are amputated, you could wait for bloodloss code to kick in and kill you if you don't want the role. Just remember to RP a reason why you were killed from blood loss instead of just sitting there waiting for the code to kill you.

[Sir Diealot]

Exactly.. I don't want this to sound like a flame, so please don't take it as such..

Some people don't want to Rp having been stolen from.. or dying.. or falling down a well, but it happened IC due to IC actions, therefore you can either play the role, or find a MUD that's /not/ RPI.

[Trenidor]

As far as aiming goes, I'm not a huge fan of that idea, Someone who is sword fighting can't target a specific location, you have to mix it up or become predictable and easy to defend against.

No one said anything about aiming...it'd work the way it is now how it says where you are hit, only that location would trigger other effects in the game.

[Sir Diealot]

Actually, on aiming.. several combat styles - fencing, kendo, some styles from the middle east - focused on aiming in various ways.  Some used misdirection, or pure force, or quick wrist flicks.. but they all were able to pretty much pinpoint, especially on less-experienced targets.

[jhunter]

Some people don't want to Rp having been stolen from.. or dying.. or falling down a well, but it happened IC due to IC actions, therefore you can either play the role, or find a MUD that's /not/ RPI.

Yep, but the game as it stands now allows players the choice of how they want to deal with it...with that the choice is gone.

I personally don't want to see the code deciding everything about my pc, I like the gray area the code provides, that's why I play Arm rather than another RPI that has blood loss code.

There's simply more room to rp in as it is and more choices of outcomes to situations...I LOVE that about Arm and would be sorely saddened to see it all go.

As someone else said before...people flee too easily when attacked as is...with blood loss code the instant fleeing shit would just get worse.

[Sir Diealot]

Make high-power Vivys be able to grow missing limbs (slowly, expensively, and at the heigth of their power).

Also, you can Rp how you react to losing an arm the exact same ways you can Rp how you react to losing your 'sid.  In each case you've lost something.. and in each case you can get revenge/mourn/pray/whatever else.. You -cannot- control whether the thief takes your 'sid or not, except by being very observant with the code.. Therefore it seems silly to allow you to control whethen that 30-day half-giant with a Greatsword hacks off your arm or not when he hits you 6 times with criticals..

Also, spam-fleeing from fighting.. I do that RL too.. I flee like a scared little bunny the second someone starts swinging.  It's realistic, people do -not- want to die.

[Trenidor]

As someone else said before...people flee too easily when attacked as is...with blood loss code the instant fleeing shit would just get worse.

I'd have to disagree...If there were consiquences of moving around with blood (perhaps blood loss like poision would only work in combat, outside of combat walking around is worse than sitting still.) I don't know really.

It'd turn out like you said, people will insta flee, but if you manage to get in the first hit, get them bleeding and they walk off with a bloody neck, I don't think they'd last long enough, they'd most likely pass out halfway back to civilzation.

[jhunter]

It'd turn out like you said, people will insta flee, but if you manage to get in the first hit, get them bleeding and they walk off with a bloody neck, I don't think they'd last long enough, they'd most likely pass out halfway back to civilzation.

Which would basicaly make every hit a good backstab...then noone would ever survive an encounter...

Another negative side effect to this is more people will die from any sort of combat...less chance they will ever work toward getting revenge on you because they will be dead...that cuts down an avenue of rp as well.

Hehe.

You solidly slash the other dude on the neck.

The other dude solidly slashes you on your head.

flee

A short while later...

The body of you is lying here crumpled in the dust.


The body of the other dude is lying here crumpled in the dust.


Me: Well...that was about fucking pointless...

[Sir Diealot]

I don't see the problem ? Neither of you could bandage, or find anyone who could bandage ? Both of you probably fled if you were playing IC and you'd just each gotten -good- hit to the head/neck.. Otherwise that'd bad Rp, except in certain, extreme scenarios.. Even so recently as the civil war, the major causes of death were disease and infections from wounds, and I'd definitely say that Civil War America was (at least medically) farther along than Zalanthas.

[Trenidor]

The other dude was clearly a good fighter, or else he wouldn't have hit you solidly.

You too, must have had experience fighting, or else you wouldn't soldly slash the other dude on the neck.

That's why if you're going to fight you should know how to heal yourself. Don't expect to live just because you're a good fighter. I don't expect to live just because I am a good fighter. The romans were good fighters, but even they died in battle. If only they had bandages to save them...

IRL you're not going to go around cutitng peoples neck nearly off, and them yours, and you're going to survive just because you are a good fighter. Sure people will end up killing themselves and their opponents, in fact, samurai were trained specifically so that they could avoid this.

[UnderSeven]

But this isn't real life, this is a game.

The examples of theft and such, VERY little is coded in this game that can happen to your char that is permanant and out of your hands.  Amputation would be one among death really.  I don't think there are any others.

As far as the novelty of playing an amputee goes it might be neat once, but somene who fights often would likely see it happen eventually no matter what.  It would get old fast.

It is a harsh world were most people are starving and probably missing limbs teeth and are ugly.  But how many people play the 90% of the population of zalathanus...? Almost no one.  People do it yes, but more rarely than not.  Like I said before, this is a game, we clearly don't play it to simulate our real lives or we wouldn't bother playing at all.  I think the fact that very few people play disease ridden, starving beggars with nothing but the cloths on their backs who have to work 14 + hour days just to afford a couple travel cakes is proof enough that most people wouldn't want to play a amputee just because they decide to do a combat role.

As far as the aiming goes, yes Kendo, fencing, they are like that. But those are competition styles, they were never really used in practical combat.  No, kendo was not how the samuria in japan fought, it may of been similuar but what we see today is how it's been adapted over the years to be an art and not a practical fighting style.  The way people fight in a real fight is you go for whatever you can, the trained fighters will feignt and do all sorts of tricks to beat their opponents, none of which will include repeatedly going for the same predictable location.

I think blood loss and bleeding code is a great idae, making wounds a little more serious so people rp them more is good too.  I am completely against coded amputation, even if it was super rare, the fact is the way thigs happen in this game comes much down to chance and the chance that your char could lose a limb would likely resort in a lot of retiring and people simply not playing.

Okay it's more realistic, you could even say it's compariable to that our chars die, but realism vs playability, if people don't want to play it, then it's probably best it not go in.

[Trenidor]

Yes, the amputation code might be a little streaching it.

I'd be willing to settle just for bloodloss code if it were implimented.
After a while of being amputated, I might just give it all up and get sick of it.

[Bogre]

I'm not too happy with the thirst and HP code. Like when your hurt and thirsty and unconscious, your hp just -drops-. Like a rock. Maybe when you get dehydrated, but not just when you are thirsty.

[Angela Christine]

Meh.

It would also have to take into account of what caused the hp drop.  You can take damage from poison (even without taking a hit from a poisoned weapon) and get into pretty bad shape from it, but taking dammage from the poison plus "bloodloss" dammage (when you don't have a wound other than small nick on your finger or something) would be double dipping.  There are also magickal things that can cause you to lose hps without having an actual wound, so you shouldn't be losing blood then either.


You want realism?  Go to the Storyteller World of Darkness system, where every human gets 7 hit points/dammage levels.  

Healthy
Bruised
Hurt   -1 penalty to all rolls
Injured   -2 penalty to all rolls
Wounded   -3 penalty to all rolls
Mauled   -4 penalty to all rolls
Crippled   -5 penalty to all rolls, plus one physical stat is reduced permanently


Healing time varies by the seriousness of the wounds:

Bruised  one day
Hurt     three days
Injured  one week
Wounded  one month
Mauled   three months
Crippled three months

Note:  Those times are cumulative so taking 3 dammage would make you injured, in one week you would become hurt, 3 days to become bruised and then 1 day to become healthy, for a total of 11 days to heal completely (assuming that you don't take more dammage durring that time).  Going from crippled to healthy takes over 7 months.

In this system a human has 1 to 5 points of strength, strength determins dammage of melee weapons, the average strength of a human is 2.  With a strength of 2, a knife does 3 levels of damage per hit, a saber does up to 6 levels, an axe does up to 7, so it is easy to become incapacitated from a single wound.  A rifle can do 7 levels of dammage per shot, a crossbow does 5.  The target can get that down using defensive skills, but it is still very easy for a human to be killed in a single round.


AC

[Sir Diealot]

Because, you know.. we don't specifically seek out Arm for it's realism.

(that's as close to not flaming as I can get right now)

[spawnloser]

Because, you know.. we don't specifically seek out Arm for it's realism.

(that's as close to not flaming as I can get right now)

Yes, but too much realism hurts playability.

[Sir Diealot]

point taken.. Though this leads us to a new problem -- Where's the line ?

Some seem to think it's /after/ bleed code.. or amputation.. or whatever.. other /before/.. So I guess it's up to staff.  

[Mr.Camel]

I always liked an idea someone put up some time ago( I think it was AC, not sure). If you use like, 40% of your HPs, your max hp would decrease for a while, similar to dehydration's affect on mvs.

[UnderSeven]

? think I said it, but anyway.

About vivs and regrowing limbs, I don't think we want to make the game more magick affected than it is, because if we had coded amputation plus vivs able to return limbs I think that would make the game take a huge step back into hack slash, where people more or less accept limb loss and just go seek out a viv to return it. What's next, viv reincarnation?

[jhunter]

It would also have to take into account of what caused the hp drop.

Yeah. That's one of my concerns about the idea as well...I tried to use an example to explain that but couldn't come up with a good one at the time.

The fleeing thing...ugh, I get so frustrated when people don't even fight it out for an exchange of attacks before fleeing as it is.

Personally on that note, I think there should be free attacks given against the one trying to flee. Basically a delay to fleeing combat similar to the one when you change opponents.

flee

You begin looking for an opening to escape.

*Attacker gets a free attack with a bonus.*

You flee west.

Something like that.