RPI, permi-death, magic-scarce etc.

[ArmFan]

Are there any other muds which offer all these things?  The purpose of this post isn't to try and lose players to other MUDs but rather to say: "Isn't Arm great, there's nothing else that can match it is there?"  So my question is just are there any other MUDs around that offer all these great features (permi-death, restricted super-magic-power-stuff, enforced roleplay, a decent playerbase) or is Arm unique?

[Larrath]

I hear that there are some MUDs that have a similar theme to Armageddon.  Personally, though, I haven't seen a MUD where magic (even the healing and defensive kind) was ever a thing people would be afraid of.

Regardless of these categories, however, Armageddon is certainly a very unique MUD.

[Agent_137]

Are there any other muds which offer all these things?  The purpose of this post isn't to try and lose players to other MUDs but rather to say: "Isn't Arm great, there's nothing else that can match it is there?"  So my question is just are there any other MUDs around that offer all these great features (permi-death, restricted super-magic-power-stuff, enforced roleplay, a decent playerbase) or is Arm unique?

what, you need something to play on saturdays?

:mrgreen:

[UnderSeven]

Generally the only muds often considered to have 'arm like' charectoristics are HL, SOI, Fourlands (Southlands). . That's about it.  You should more or less ignore all the claims of rp you see on TMS (top mud sites) and TMC (The mud connector).  

It seems to be the 'in' thing to claim a mud is rpi, but in truth, it's really only the above listed IMO.

[Callisto]

The Four Lands isn't very populated, but has some neat features. A lot of people don't like it, but it was my first RPI and has a special place in my bitter, blackened heart.

Harsh lands is okay, but it's more of a themed chat room with some combat and mudsex thrown in. Nothing special, but nothing bad either.

Forever's End MUD is like Harsh Lands but with even less action and even more mudsex. It isn't a bad game, but most of the players there are above and beyond when it comes to thinking they're just the cat's meow, the elite of elite role-players. Even worse then us. The staff is pretty corrupt, does a lot of favor-playing.

Shadows of Isildur (or something like that) looks like a decent enough game. I don't know too much about it, other then it's new and has a stock theme - actually the reason I never got around to trying it. I heard there was some favor play happening, plus some of your basic "omg I r staff, u shall fear me" shit, but other then that I've heard nothing but good things.

Harsh Lands, Forever's End MUD and Shadows of Isildur all have more or less the same code-base, but different themes. That code-base is clunky and slow, the MUD equivalent of wading through a pool of jello, in my opinion. It drives me nuts, to be honest.

Armageddon has a lot more offer then a lot of those other MUDs. They have some things on Armageddon (Fem and HL have a more commoner-based theme, for example), but consistently Armageddon delivers a higher and more consistent level of role-play, action and freedom of play then the others.

Thats all my opinion, of course.

[Anonymous]

Callisto nailed Harshlands.  That's how I've felt each time I played there.

[Gilvar]

Callisto named all I can think of.
I like Shadows of Isildur when I get in LOTR moods.

There was also another Elwar one, Southlands I think.

[da mitey warrior]

Forever's End is dead.  It was a decent enough mud, but it was too high maintenence.  The staff was very creative but very anal.  You really couldn't do anything without staff approval, and there were all sorts of nit-picky rules (like you're not allowed to host virtual dinner parties in which your social enemies are not invited, apparently this was a problem).  Eventually most of them left to start up a MUSH and the remaining staff shut it down.

[Ghost]

I tried Shadows of Isildur on a few saturday nights and never liked.  It has very low PC (I did not see more than 4-5 people playing other than myself) , skill levels are shown hp/mv/stun not shown.  When you want to walk, it firsts gives "You begin walking ...." and compare it to the arm's movement delay, it is probably twice as big delay.  Damn it people, if you want to walk to the other part of the city you better think it twice!  Maybe it is realistic, but sucks in the playability.  
Also skill branching and teaching is not as playable as arm.

Good things about it:  There are more stats than 4 (about 6-7 stats I guess)
And you can order them.

[jhunter]

When you want to walk, it firsts gives "You begin walking ...." and compare it to the arm's movement delay, it is probably twice as big delay. Damn it people, if you want to walk to the other part of the city you better think it twice! Maybe it is realistic, but sucks in the playability.

I agree 100%.

[Anarchy]

Armageddon is the United States of RPI muds - complete with backstabbing, high murder rate And cruption. I dont know if i can call Four Lands an RPI, granted i have only tried it once or twice. But other then that Harshlands and SOI are the only "Real" RPI muds out there. I enjoy Harshlands, SOI i have some issues with. But ARM defeats the other RPI muds with anything thrown at it.

[Gesht]

- - I liked SoI, with the exception of one thing.  When I last played it, you could only have two items in your inventory at any given time.  One item for your left hand, anf one for your right.  If you bought something and got more than one piece of change (each coin was an individual object, several of different values), the shopkeeper dumped the excess change on the floor.  See, when you buy something, it takes up that first slot... so yeah...

- - If you held a sword in your hand, it would not be considered a weapon until you removed it from that hand and wielded it. Duel wielding had no friggin documentation on how to do it. All I can think to say is AGGGHHHHH WHY THE HELL DID YOU GUYS HAVE TO GO SO FAR TO MAKE IT REALISTIC THAT YOU ACTUALLY SHOT WELL-PAST REALISTIC INTO ANAL RETENTIVE, RETARDED ITEM MANGEMENT?!?!?!?

- - They may have cleaned this mess up since I last played a few months ago, but it really soured me to the game.

[HaiWolfe]

For the record, the average number of people logged onto Shadows of Isildur these days is around 18-22, with nightly peaks upwards of 35 players. Concepts of hp and stun are combined into a wounds-based system for combat, which is measured by a prompt. The walking delay is coupled with a 'set' command that allows players to choose walking speed (walk, jog, run, etc.) that affects delay. When buying something, change is automatically deposited into any pockets or pouches one is wearing - if that didn't happen, it may have been a minor glitch that has since been fixed.

IMO, being Tolkien-based doesn't make a MUD 'stock', any more than Armageddon is a stock MUD for being based on Dune and Dark Sun.

My apologies if posting this offended any one, or if it brought the thread off-topic too much. I just wanted to clear up a few things mentioned so that it didn't seem like SoI consisted of a tiny playerbase rattling around in a Midgaard-esque world with anal retentive code features.  :wink:

[Bestatte]

I found SOI a fun game, very similar in many ways to Arm in the context of playability. Similar emote system, neat wound/injury system, they strive for "fantasy realism" and their RP has gone through some awesome improvements over the past few months.

Their staff seems very reasonable and level-headed, and extremely responsive to players' concerns/needs/requests.

They have some new systems like herbalism being reworked from old or "not quite implemented" systems that I feel will be a huge benefit to their game.

I -still- prefer Arm. I love the genre, I love that I don't have to "stand south" in order to see what's in the room to the south. SOI's roleplay needs a polishing, where Arm only occasionally needs a quick spit-shine. Plus there are more people in Arm and I started my "career" of RPing in a game that has around 1000 players logged in at any given moment. I'm accustomed to a bigger population and I prefer it to a smaller one.

But if you need a break from Arm, or are between characters, or waiting for the special app approval, or need something recognizable system-wise but different genre-wise on saturdays - I'd say SOI is a great alternative.

[Angela Christine]

I think Arm may be the only MUD that has that particular combination of features, but that doesn't mean Arm is "better" than other games in any meaningful way.

RPI -  Keeping IC and OOC seperate, staying in character.  Plenty of MUDs have this in varying degrees.  There are still way more non-RP or RP-optional (shudder)  MUDs, but that doesn't make non-RP MUDs less.  RP-optional MUDs scare me though, pick one or the other and stick with it!

Permadeath -  Rare.  A few non-permadeath MUDs try to make death really inconvinent, potentally permanent, or in some way interesting in itself without making death a game-ender.  Personally I find comming back to life jarring, and it ruins the funeral, but there is nothing inherently wrong with it.

Rare magic - There are plenty of MUDs with no magic at all.  No magick either.    They might have cybernetics or other super-science instead, but that isn't the same as magic.  Low Fantasy isn't inherently better than High Fantasy, Dark Fantasy, Science Fiction, Horror, BDSM, or any other genre of mud.


If you desperately want a high RP, low magic, permadeath MUD, then I believe Armageddon is the best.  Obviously I must like it, or I wouldn't play it.  On the other hand I also played Threshold for several years, and it is very different.  Still a RP mud, but magic is plentiful and death was mildly inconvinent (Disclaimer:  I haven't played much in the last three years, so things may have changed).  Everyone should play Threshold for a year or two, it makes the staff here look like a bunch of pussycats.  :twisted:  My point, and I do have one, is that Armageddon is great at what it sets out to do, but there is no point in bashing other games that set out with slightly different goals, and even less point in bashing games that have radically different goals.  I don't enjoy Godwars MUDs, but that doesn't mean they are bad games.  Play the game you enjoy.  When you stop enjoying it, stop playing, but don't ruin the good memories you have by becoming bitter and complaining about your ex.  In my opinion bashing other games just makes us look lame, like poltiticians whose entire campaign is based on how bad the other guy is.  Armageddon is great, it can stand on its own merits.  Mud slinging is unnecessary.


AC

[Malken]

I both enjoy SOI and Armageddon.. I don't agree with one of the person saying that SOI's playerbase is low.. In the US mornings and early afternoon, I find that there are more players on SOI than there is on Arm.. But Arm gets more players in the evening, where SOI peeks at about 25-30 easily, even during the mornings and early afternoons.

Now for the code and delay, etc.. It's just a matter of getting used to both.. I don't prefer any of them, I'm just used to both of them (Having played Harshlands and Armageddon for years, I'm used to both and they don't bother me in the least)

But asking what the players think of other muds here, just calls for mud bashing, I think.. Not a good topic to discuss, as I'm sure if you go ask about Armageddon on either SOI or Harshlands, you won't have that many good reviews, so it's mostly a matter of where you go to ask about a mud.. I'd say try them all, and if you enjoy them, good, if not, then come back here

No need for mud bashing, people.. We should be happy that there's more RPI muds out there, it's good for all of us, it brings good role players and shapes the hack n' slashers into future good role players.

[Traithe]

When you want to walk, it firsts gives "You begin walking ...." and compare it to the arm's movement delay, it is probably twice as big delay. Damn it people, if you want to walk to the other part of the city you better think it twice! Maybe it is realistic, but sucks in the playability.

I agree 100%.

Heh, to be honest I always felt a little awkward playing in Arm without it.

To be expected, though... it's all a matter of personal preference, likely, and chances are my own preferences are pretty heavily evident in SoI - seeing as how I was the one who authored the ~40,000 lines of code that differentiate us from HL's originally ~60,000 line server these days. <g>

Had no idea it was that big a turn-off for some, actually. If I get some time in the coming weeks I might look at coming up with some alternatives - just don't tell our players, because I'm officially "retired" right now. :twisted:

Anyway, sorry for the interruption. I'll resume lurking now. :lol:

[UnderSeven]

The movement speed takes getting used to, it's nice though in that people can't twink in how they speed through rooms and don't let you even glance at them.  

As far as the item management this is my BIGGEST peeve with SOI.  I can hold more than two things in my hands/arms in real life, but you can't in SOI.  If realism was a line in the sand and unrealism is before it, SOI shot for that line, crossed it and went back into the realms of unrealism with that one.  I really wish they'd change it.

[jhunter]

Yeah Underseven, that would be my second thing that irritates me about the game.

If the movement thing was changed a bit so that it wasn't quite so slow and the handling of items and lack of inventory, I'd probably give the game alot more time.

When I'm not on Arm that is. :wink:

[UnderSeven]

I can get over the movement and item thing myeslf.  I'm just not a huge fan of tolkien and infact that's what kills me in the end.  Ultimately though it's a good game and if it hasn't yet it will soon over take harshlands.

[JollyGreenGiant]

Mud slinging is unnecessary.

MUD slinging.  Heh heh heh.

[Agent_137]

I played Dragonrealms for seven years with the "no inventory but two hands" limitation. I like arm's system better, but you -will- get used to the two hand thing if you stick with it.

Of course, i'm sure you could get used to eating shit if you stick with it. . .

:mrgreen:

[Malken]

For anyone interested.. The speed movement has been changed very recently (As in, less than 12 hours ago or so..) So it now takes less time to move from one room to another, at normal walking speed.

[UnderSeven]

See the moment it happens on Arm's boards everyone else wants to do it.

heheh.. J/K

[Callisto]

tolkien

That's what I meant by stock, in case anyone else thought I meant you were going to run into the Mayor of Midgaard and beastly fidos.

Also, I wasn't bashing the other MUDs or anything like that. I was just giving an opinion based on what I've seen and heard from other players.

Just wanted to clear that up.

[Delirium]

For anyone interested.. The speed movement has been changed very recently (As in, less than 12 hours ago or so..) So it now takes less time to move from one room to another, at normal walking speed.

Actually, that's not true, heh. Movement speeds are the same as they've always been. As for stock, I'm not a huge Tolkien fan, but you don't really notice the "theme" too much once you're in the game.

Tried Harshlands for a while, but I couldn't stand the rampant typos and visibly buggy code. I did meet some fairly impressive roleplayers, but nothing has been able to come close to the experiences I have RPing in Armageddon.

The thing about Armageddon is that it has something for everyone - the explorers, the socialites, the sneaky bastards, the aggressive combat fans, and even the mudsexx0rz - and quality RP while doing any of the above.

[amoeba]

Angela Christine wrote

Everyone should play Threshold for a year or two, it makes the staff here look like a bunch of pussycats.

She's not kidding.  I came over from Threshold.  Mean bunch of SOB's IM's.  Sorry but thats a subtle as I could come up with.  RP was enforced, but there was IMHO no realism whatsoever.  The plot lines were farcical and forced. The only thing going for it was a *very* active player community.  There was also a hell of a lot of infighting going on. If I wanted that I could just go to work.  I still to this day wonder why it always ranks high on the list.

[Agent_137]

I still to this day wonder why it always ranks high on the list.

Ignorance. I played Simutronic's Dragonrealms for seven years and firmly believed it was the best MUD in the whole world. And I paid for it for 4 years.

Now that I look back, armageddon was what a I wanted, and Dragonrealms was just something to cut my teeth on. Too bad it took me so long to find armageddon. D:

[Cenghiz]

Err.... Ha ha!... Join Greystone! I may send you a script file which levels itself....
Sorry for fatal derailing... But I've been special apping for some time, so I tried 3 MUD's a day. You really think there's something like ARM? Ah, I should try Shadows of Isildur.
And, err.. I remembered. Let me just turn on Greystone's script to tease my Turkish friends there.

Cenghiz is really sorry that he started MUDding with pure H&S and doesn't know any other RPI MUDs but ARM.

[Realedazed]

I tried Threshold awhile back.  From the webpage, I figured it was a cool game. I later found out that it was pay to play - at least $50 a year is all that was required, I think. But, I can't believe you have to wait until you have paid about $100 just to use the "rest command." Thats about two years!  

Anyways, Arm rocks. I wish I did find it way back when I was roaming from game to game, looking for something I just couldn't find. The other RPIs are cool, but I dunno. Someone said Harshlands seems like a Cyber-sex RPI and from my few experiences with it, I think thats about right. SOI, is not a bad game at all. But Arm hogs up all my time so I can't really say anything else on it.