How would you respond, and why?

[JollyGreenGiant]

So your character is sitting in one of the taverns in the game along with several other PCs.  An activity of some kind breaks out - a brawl starts, one of the PCs gets out an instrument and starts playing a lively tune, or any number of things that should draw at least a flicker of attention from your PC.  More than once, I've seen this kind of thing fail to elicit so much as a "look" from anyone else in the tavern.  I've seen people ignore things completely, even when another PC makes an effort to get them involved - a brawler emotes crashing into the table you're sitting at, or into you, for example - and the response is to ignore the brawler, stand from your table, and walk obliviously away a minute later.

I don't understand this.  The point of a mud, especially an RP mud, is interaction with other characters, not just interaction with the environment.  My theory is that we get too caught up in trying to account for the virtual environment, and forget to have fun interacting with the other players in the game.  So, my question, as the subject states, is how do you respond in these situations?  Do you respond at all?  And what are your reasons for the way you respond, or don't respond?

[Anonymous]

If it is something that would be absolutely noticeable over the ruckus and noise of a tavern, then I don't understand it either.  I guess some people are just too cool for school.

I've seen people barely acknowledge brawling half-giants.

The bard one I could go either way on.  Music in a tavern probably isn't going to be something that surprising, and as such I could imagine that PCs who don't give a damn about music wouldn't bother turning their head to gaze upon the minstril.

On the flip side, I've seen players fill my screen with emotes about how they are looking around the room.  No matter how verbose you are about it, my PC is highly unlikely to hear your head turn or notice your eyes flickering about unless they were already watching you.

[mansa]

It all depends on the character.   I've see this mighty fine noble hire people to be entertainment, and then completely ignore them.  Want to see the log of it?

http://www.armageddon.org/rp/logs/log.whipdance.html

As you can note...  it is a private setting.  There are two characters that are the 'entertainment' and three nobles that COMPLETELY ignore them, and carry on their own noble conversation.

I think that went perfectly fine.

But, as you said in your example:  Someone is brawling someone else, and they crash into your table.

With most of my characters that I play, I would do something in that situation.

[crymerci]

Maybe the person was under the control of a mindbender.  :twisted:

But seriously, you may not have seen their reaction.  Maybe they reacted in thought rather than emote. But you are never owed a reaction. It may suck if you don't get one, but no matter how much you shriek "Look at me! Look at me!" you may not get it.

Personally, I may or may not respond to a brawl, depending on where it is and who my character is. If you crash into my table, yeah I'd probably respond with emote or speech.  But if not, my character might just think "Hmm, those Salarri employees sure are rowdy" or maybe psi someone to report what's going on.  If it's a bard, maybe I don't like them and I think "Krath, So-and-so is going to perform again.  When will they figure out they have no talent?"

So basically I have two points.

1) Just because you don't see a reaction doesn't mean there isn't one.
2) You are not entitled to anything, not even a reaction.

[spawnloser]

Note, also, that anything along the lines of crashing into their table could have been lost in screen scroll.  They probably noticed the fight, but missed that it was as close to them as it was.  I know that I completely ignore things my character would not take notice of, and someone brawling could very easily be a, 'La la la...whatever,' kind of moment.

[Seeker]

I try to respond to barfights or bards when I can.  Even just one emote about "distainfully ignoring the racket,"  but sometimes, especially in a crowded environment, I am doing all I can to keep up a conversation and emotes at a table, zipping a few Way directions back and forth, sliding in a Think or two to tickle any spying IMMs, and monitoring busy screen scroll for things that I -must- react to.

Sometimes, some things slip through.  Cheering on the bard or jeering at a barfight's contenders merely drops off the "first-priority" list.


Seeker

[My 2 sids]

My theory is that we get too caught up in trying to account for the virtual environment, and forget to have fun interacting with the other players in the game.

I think this falls into the category of players who constantly just want to sol role-play or play "untouchable" characters.  It just distracts and doesn't allow to add much to other people's game.

[ShaLeah]

Tavern are busy beehives I think, even when they are quiet there is always something going on, someone drinks too much and gets loud, someone passes out, some people get groped, or killed.  There's dancing and music and conversation at all levels.  In a tavern of a large size if you're sitting at a table a commotion isn't going to be too distracting unless everyone stops to stare and when was the last time you did that at a packed bar? Mostly I think we notice the surrounding area around us and are quite capable of ignoring things that are at a distance though I don't think many of us would miss two brawling half-giants or a murder resulting in a corpse in the middle of the dance floor.

My reactions change with my characters so while one will ignore, another might be nosy and get up on her chair to stare, yet another might leave or cower. -shrug- It's impossible to react to every little thing.

[jhunter]

Maybe they were just LD or afk?

*shrugs*

[Morrolan]

RL equivalent:

I'm sitting in a bar when a drunk, obnoxious person stumbles into my table or tries to create drama.  Okay, bad example.  They stumble into someone else's table in an attempt to involve the PCs at the table.

Responding gives the actor direct control over your character.  So you do the New York walk.  "Didn' see nothin', don' know nothin'.  This is me walking away."  Leaving without looking -is- interaction.

Though...

emote sighs.
think Not again.
stand
sneak
hide
follow asshole
think We can take care of this outside.

...might look like walking away, as well.

M

[JollyGreenGiant]

A few posts in, some interesting responses so far, keep 'em coming.  Let me try to narrow the focus down a bit.

It all depends on the character. I've see this mighty fine noble hire people to be entertainment, and then completely ignore them.

I thought that log was awesome, and the example very appropriate.  Let's say it's a public setting, rather than private, for now, and most of the PCs present are commoners.

1) Just because you don't see a reaction doesn't mean there isn't one.
2) You are not entitled to anything, not even a reaction.

I don't necessarily disagree with either of those statements.  However, when a group of otherwise unreactive PCs will ignore a bard in a tavern, but then fall all over themselves to respond to an environmental emote that an Imm tosses out, those two points lose a bit of their convincing power.

I think this falls into the category of players who constantly just want to sol role-play or play "untouchable" characters. It just distracts and doesn't allow to add much to other people's game.

I didn't understand that post... could you clarify?

So you do the New York walk. "Didn' see nothin', don' know nothin'. This is me walking away." Leaving without looking -is- interaction.

Definitely something to consider, that applies to number of circumstances.  

Responding gives the actor direct control over your character.

I think that nailed it on the head.  Perhaps people feel like a captive audience when someone else tries to involve them in a scene?

[Trenidor]

Jolly, I feel for ya...I'm one of them that try and get people involved, and sometimes things just don't happen. I just continue doing my best till someone does something. When people don't do a thing, I'll try harder untill eventually I have to force RP them in (sorta). but that's only a last resort.

If you ever feel presured...at least act like you are avoiding conflict...

for example.... someone bumps you:
You emote: so and so pulls his arm back after the bump, continuing their sitting at the bar.

[Trenidor]

I would like to also add that I hate the kind of people that don't do anything...whatsever.

IRL I meet people that don't do a thing. You can bug the crap out of them and they won't even say something in respose.

People like that don't deserve to play arm...it's like an unwriten rule that people that can't Rp when it's placed in their face shouldn't be able to play.

I'm fine though, with the people that ooc something to say that they are uncomfortable RPing something.

[Delirium]

If you're going to ignore me, at least let me know you're ignoring me.

That sounds odd, but hear me out:

What's the difference between interacting with an NPC and interacting with someone that doesn't indicate anything to show that they've got a player controlling them? By interact I don't necessarily mean friendly conversation, either.

If I do something that affects you or your immediate surroundings, please at least show me what your character's reaction is. This is especially true for those who play magickers.. it's disheartening to try and interact with someone (for better or worse) and have them completely ignore your existence, not even bothering to emote something as simple as "em ignores ~person." Someone slams into your table? Please don't just sit there and show no outward reaction. Even if it's something like 'em adjusts ^me chair to the opposite side of the table and proceeds to ignore the tussle."

In an RP game, interaction is key, so it's hard to play off of people if you are OOCly unsure of what they're doing. Are they simply not paying attention, or is their character supposed to be ignoring the scene?

[spawnloser]

Delirium, sometimes people just won't react visibly.  I'm sorry to say, but that is true.

[wizturbo]

I agree that giving some reaction is important, but you cannot know whats going on in that person's head at the moment.  My character has ignored some big bar fights, because they are on the way with someone who might be near death, or discussing something of vital importance.

Some characters might hate music, or be completely indifferent to it, so they don't pay attention.

Some character might have grown up in the 'rinth where a bar fight is so common its nothing to gawk at anymore.

But...these are all IC reasons to ignore stuff, I'm guessing most people don't have IC reasons, they just don't want to interact at that moment for whatever particular reason.

[Delirium]

So show me that you're not reacting visibly.

em makes no indication of noticing ~spazboy, staring blankly off into space.

But show me, OOCly, that you're at the keyboard, paying attention, and not simply playing the ever-so-interesting part of an NPC. That my attempt to involve you in a scene is not fruitless, because it's perfectly fine to be involved in a scene by simply ignoring it... ICly. But ignoring it OOCly is just frustrating for other players, or at least for me and a few other people I've talked to.

Am I getting across what I'm trying to say, here?

Note that I'm only talking about scenes that directly involve your character.. if a bard hops up on the stage and starts to play, I see no reason why you should have to react to him/her (unless they're serenading you or something). But if some guy slams into your table, or trips over your foot, or targets you in some way, shape, or form, please at least give an outward indication of what your character's reaction is to it, even if it's simply to ignore it.. because otherwise, the other person doesn't really have anything to go on.

[Agent_137]

I'll respond!

<3

[jhunter]

So show me that you're not reacting visibly.

em makes no indication of noticing ~spazboy, staring blankly off into space.

I understand what your saying but, to me this doesn't make alot of sense.

An emote is supposed to show some sort of action, not lack of it to my understanding.

I mean, that's the equivalent of:

emote does absolutely nothing.

I think a better way to show this would be:

emote glances toward ~spazboy briefly, returning to his conversation.

or

pemote gaze flicks up at ~spazboy before returning to staring at his twiddling fingers.

Something along those lines I think would be better.

[spawnloser]

jhunter, you're missing her point...she wants to KNOW that you the player noticed but that the character did not visibly.

Delirium, if all you want to know, though, is that the person is at the keyboard, while they're busy talking, possibly using the Way and eavesdropping on another conversation in a busy place with lots of scroll, is at the keyboard, give them a chance to notice you and rest easy knowing that they're at the keyboard when you notice OOC that they are talking or emoting or doing whatever else, even if it doesn't include you.

[Quirk]

Delirium, if all you want to know, though, is that the person is at the keyboard, while they're busy talking, possibly using the Way and eavesdropping on another conversation in a busy place with lots of scroll, is at the keyboard, give them a chance to notice you and rest easy knowing that they're at the keyboard when you notice OOC that they are talking or emoting or doing whatever else, even if it doesn't include you.

BEEP     (General)

You are able to cause another player's terminal to audibly beep (if their terminal has such capability). This can be used to check that another player has not gone link-dead, as may be the case if they have not indicated (via the ooc or gone commands) that they are occupied in real life, but also have not performed any visible actions with their characters for some time...

Also a great thing to do to people who're in the same room but not at their keyboard.

:twisted:

Quirk

[SpyGuy]

I have mine set to beep when something dies...that'd totally freak me out.

[jhunter]

jhunter, you're missing her point...she wants to KNOW that you the player noticed but that the character did not visibly.

No I'm not missing shit.

-My- point is I'd rather see something the character is actually doing than see an emote about doing nothing just for OOC reasons, it's really kind of silly IMO.

[Delirium]

So emote picking the goober out of your nose while you ignore the rest of the room or something, it doesn't really matter to me. But an RPI relies heavily on interaction between players, and if I make the attempt to roleplay with you - whether directly or indirectly - I'd appreciate it if I knew it wasn't being completely ignored while you're spaced out watching Telletubbies.

It's sorta along the same lines as two players in a bar having no reason whatsoever to talk to each other, yet still interacting with each other via VNPCs or something, even though the two characters don't actually talk or interact. Having a kid trip over your stool, and the other character snickers at the VNPC and watches them stumble away, for example.

[jhunter]

Yeah, I usually -do- something if I'm targeted. All I was saying is I would prefer that someone emote -something- rather than emote -nothing-.

*shrugs*

That's all.

[spawnloser]

Emoting doesn't have to be what your character is doing.  Sometimes your lack of motion is important to the scene.  Emoting doing nothing can be very important, and when well worded can add a LOT to a scene.  You don't have to be so simple and unimaginative to...

>em does absolutely nothing

...as you suggested.  There are many other ways to go about intrtoducing your lack of reaction or movement or the like.

[jhunter]

I said the examples that were given, which I quoted in the same post were the equivalent of doing that.

I DID NOT say that someone should do it.

Read the entire post.

Don't go quoting one part of it and saying that it's the entirety of my post 'Loser.

[spawn2L2L]

Okay, you know what, jhunter, now I KNOW you're missing my point.

I read your entire post.  I'm taking one part of it because it was the extreme and saying that it is silly because noone would do it.  I never said that you said someone should do it.  Read MY last post where I said:

You didn't tell people to do this

Be creative.  Use your brain.  Figure something out.  Emote.  Don't just sit there like a bump on a log.  Interact.  This is a roleplaying game where you are intended to interact with people, so unless all you want is solo-rp, fucking interact with people.

[jhunter]

I'm done, you keep contradicting me and then suggesting exactly what I was suggesting just worded a bit differently.

I'm sorry that I could not get through to you.

Have a nice day.

So show me that you're not reacting visibly.

em makes no indication of noticing ~spazboy, staring blankly off into space.

But show me, OOCly, that you're at the keyboard, paying attention, and not simply playing the ever-so-interesting part of an NPC. That my attempt to involve you in a scene is not fruitless, because it's perfectly fine to be involved in a scene by simply ignoring it... ICly. But ignoring it OOCly is just frustrating for other players, or at least for me and a few other people I've talked to.

Am I getting across what I'm trying to say, here?

Yeah I get it. You want attention, and go crazy if you don't have it.

[Delirium]

:roll:

I never said you had to direct those emotes at me, did I? No, didn't think I did.

:roll:

I never said you had to direct those emotes at me, did I? No, didn't think I did.

I never said that you said you wanted the emotes directed at you, did I? No I don't think I did.

[Delirium]

Avoiding the snippy comments and sticking to the issue itself, the point is simply one of mutual respect and interaction between players ingame. I wil hardly feel insulted if you choose not to roleplay with me. I simply enjoy it much more when players of characters pay attention to and involve themselves in the gameworld around them rather than sitting there appearing not unlike an NPC. Ignore me all you want.. ICly. Hate me all you want.. ICly. That's cool. That's fun to roleplay. But trying to play out a scene with someone that does not respond in any way I can percieve leaves me, the player, with little to no idea how to react to them.

I've already attempted to explain myself numerous times, so if I haven't gotten my point across by now, it'd be the equivalent of beating my head against a brick wall. So I won't bother. :)

[Meh, I give up. Misquote me all you like, DN.]

You gave up. I win!

[spawnloser]

Filibustering is hardly winning.  It is being the last person to continue arguing when the arguement is dead and buried.

To summarize:

Someone wants people to acknowledge the world around them, especially when it impacts on them.

Sometimes people will miss these things.

Noone is owed anything, but we should all respect the roleplay (if not each other, Carnage) to react when we should.

Sometimes, a reaction could be a lack of reaction, but it is hard to tell a lack of reaction from someone being AFK if they do not emote a lack of reaction in some creative way...no matter how much someone may hate emoting doing nothing.

In conclusion:

Come on, people, this isn't that hard a concept to wrap our heads around.  If someone bumps into you and you act like it never happened, don't expect them to bump into you the next time they are stealing from you.  If you don't give them roleplay, they won't give you roleplay...and then you'll be on the board bitching about twinky thieves/raiders/assassins.  If you want RP out of anyone else, give it in return.

Now, I'm done.  You can argue against me all you want, but I'll just be sitting here, laughing at you for arguing with nothing.

In fact, assume that whoever plays me is typing this in response to any further argument:

> em sits motionlessly reading the rest of the board as ~you argue with the back of his head.

Now, I'm done.  You can argue against me all you want, but I'll just be sitting here, laughing at you for arguing with nothing.

Thats one of the lamest things you've said. You jump back into the thread and say if anyone ELSE types anything after me I laugh at you.  Wow, that proves you right.

Anyway, my point is the post that I quoted sounded like the person wanted the reaction for their -OOC- shits and giggles. They said that they wanted to know -OOC-. That's what turned me against it. There is a lot of NPC's and VNPC's who emote nothing as well. Do they ridicule them and demand a response for their OOC satisfaction on the NPC and VNPC discussion board?

[JollyGreenGiant]

While I've enjoyed some of the responses on this thread, the useful responses are rapidly losing ground to the useless responses and the flames.  I'm requesting that this thread be locked.

Come on, people, this isn't that hard a concept to wrap our heads around. If someone bumps into you and you act like it never happened, don't expect them to bump into you the next time they are stealing from you. If you don't give them roleplay, they won't give you roleplay...and then you'll be on the board bitching about twinky thieves/raiders/assassins. If you want RP out of anyone else, give it in return.

I think that quote is probably the perfect one to end this thread on.  If you don't RP with people, you lose all right to whine about people not RP'ing with you.

[Brixius]

While this has been a fun and educational experiment on being jerks
to one another, it has all been done before. Why don't you all head to
IRC to do this? You know, where being an ass on the internet was
perfected.

Thanks,
Brix