Question for y'all

[Bhagharva]

Special Apps allow us to work with a player to flesh out the ideas, so the player isn't assuming things they shouldn't, or being told something they should know ICly. Almost everyone that takes the time and thought to work on an application and send it gets accepted after making enough changes to suit a role that is available. For example;

I don't want to see any more magicker applications for desert elf roles in SLK and ATV until I fill the open roles. Even though you may have the karma.. I don't need yet another player who does not understand the ways and customs of a clan but has the karma to play it to be able to barge in.  Then in ignorance, break the atmostphere of the tribe and disrupt RP sessions, all because they didn't take time to learn about the clan they are in. Special apped clans and guilds require more than average knowledge of the game world. Certain players have karma but are not worldly, certain players are worldly but do not have karma.

[Cenghiz]

I had 0 level karma till I applied for a magicker, then Sanvean decided that I already should get the karma, then gave the karma instead.
Imms are no cyborgs, AFAIK. They can't watch every person at every corner, especially if you're playing at noon, when it's only 5 am EST. Some people are not watched when they twink, go kill scrabs every day buffing up backstab on them; some people couldn't be watched when they acted like a damned level 17 karma. I think people must have the right to apply for a role which is one or two levels higher than their karma is.
That's my two silver coins, and I won't give any of them to you.

[jhunter]

Bhagharva,
Right...but -you- are requesting the apps, that's a big difference.
You are looking for something specific to fills some roles...that's understandable.

It's not the same as someone special app'ing for something neither being requested for, nor do they have the karma to play, IMHO.

[crymerci]

The karma system is great...but it's not perfect.

Maybe you've never really distinguished yourself as a Rukkian or a half-giant, but you'd make an outstanding mul.  Maybe the first time you ever heard about their internal struggle you knew you'd love to play one someday. But in the meantime you're stuck in roles which are enjoyable and competently-played, but which may never catapult you to mul karma.

This is the sort of case that the special application system was designed for. It's not there to disregard the karma system, but rather to make up for the imperfections in it.

Given that it is an impefect system, I think it works remarkably well. And I sincerely doubt that anyone with only level 1 karma is getting granted psion special apps (for example). But I don't think it's unreasonable to aim a level or three above what you have, if you have a really good concept and a good record.

[Forest Junkie]

This is the sort of case that the special application system was designed for. It's not there to disregard the karma system, but rather to make up for the imperfections in it.

Yeah, I agree.

[spawnloser]

Man. that's about an insulting question...that would be the main objection to making people who already have the karma have to special app them...whatever gave you the idea that I -don't- know this...seems like the -most obvious- aspect of this entire discussion.

That's not an insulting question.  You weren't clear.  If you meant what FJ afterwards said he thought you did, why not say it outright?  I don't expect much of anything from anyone, so when you say something that suggests that you had possibly just not thought of something, I'll speak up...maybe you were tired, who knows?

If they get rid of those karma levels and make everyone have to special app for all of those roles, that's the way it is.  People don't have enough karma to play a halfling or mantis.  Those karma levels don't exist.  If they did that to nilazi/sorc/psi, the karma levels wouldn't exist so there is no point to that arguement.  It is a drastic solution, granted.  I've already stated what I think they should do.

[slipshod]

I think that making those guilds special app. only is an EXCELLENT A-1 super idea.  I vote an emphatic YES.

Actually, I always assumed that they sort of were special app. anyway... even if you have the karma to play one, I never imagined that people would be doing so without running it by the staff first... for one of the very reasons Sanvean mentioned - to make sure that there aren't already too many of that type in an area.

anyhoo, I read the question, and I voted.  I skipped over the 8 pages of replies, so I might be repeating something someone else said.

[jhunter]

Couldn't have been that unclear...you were the only one who stated obviously that you didn't understand bud.
*shrugs*

[a dull black gem]

I personally think things should be kept as they are.  If I have the karma for a nilazi and I want to play one, I should be able to apply for one normally and not have to go through a special app. process.  Frankly special apps are a pain in the ass, for both the players and I'd guess the staff.  They definitly have their place, for templars, nobles, players who don't have the karma but deserve a shot.  But as it is, we have one poor guy getting spamed with apps every day on top of his other staff responsibilities.  Why dump just that much more on him?  And I would rather not take another imm from somewhere else and have them focusing on review special apps too, insted of adding to the world in a more visable way.

However, it's not cool for players with high karma monopolizing a class.  But I think the best solution to this is in the normal app. reviewing process.  Why not just have the account system add 10 simple lines of text onto the apps the imms will be reviewing? It should list
the last 10 characters that account had made, their guilds and races, their playing time and the RL dates they were made and died.  If it looks like a player is playing a high karma role too much simply deny their app for their next high karma role.  Let them know they were denied because in the staffs opinion they should trying something else for a while.  First of all, they can't just shrug it off, because they are being forced to do something else.  If they keep applying for the high karma role they will keep being rejected.  And secondly, I would hope that any player with that much karma would understand the staffs decision and be thankful the staff was looking out for the good of the game world.

That way if I haven't played a nilazi for a while and I feel the urge I can without spending a month or two making a special app, yet my character concept is of course still checked by an imm.

[Ix Machina]

I just wanted to state, in response to special applications being a pain in the ass: No way.

At least not for me. I can't ever remember receiving an application and thinking 'Oh great, another stupid special app.' Even when I haven't been looking for them.

I would rather make the room in my clan for someone who sent me a special application (and get back to them quickly) because then I could see that they really were interested in the clan and playing in it, that they took the time to think out a character beforehand, and I could always go through and help them fill in the blanks and give them a better picture of the kind of pc that would ease into it better.

Much for the same reasons Bhag said... I never (and even as a player) thought of special applications as a pain in the ass for any pc (mine or others).

If anything, they make a spectacular sounding board.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Ix Machina:  Specially applying for a role out of your Karma league is and always has been different than applying for a role in the clan, and you have not served in the position of reviewing the former.

I speak of specially applying strictly in the former sense and I think everybody else here does as well.  I don't begrudge the staff for purposely making it low priority, nor do I think that Naephet is a horrible person for not replying to special apps sooner.  But special application is merely a small system to help support the larger system of Karma.  I think upsetting that balance would be a big mistake.

However, I see the need to place limits on roles.  That is necessary, and the only problem currently is that the staff only moderates roles with special applications and doesn't play a hand in all roles in general.  There are a lot more options than turning to special application, and I heartily encourage that they be explored and experimented with.

[Oxidised Lizard]

I think sorcer/psi/void should definitely be kept as a karma level.  As has been said before, it is easy enough to deny a regular app if the player is playing too many of these characters.  And it is also easy enough to send a quick e-mail to the player to tell him/her of the problem.  If the problem persists (unlikely) the karma could be removed for that player.

[Blue_Static]

tell me if this sounds stupid. But why not just make it harder to get approved for a role such as this, Just make sure that all app,s for these
types of char,s would have to have a great idea to go with

I say let it be special app. But then again I don't feel the pain of those with high karma.

I like the ideas along the line of temporarily reducing their karma down once thay have played on of those roles. Once they have played a set number of hours as a different
kind of pc it gets set back. Maybe a day as another type of PC at least. And since they are trusted players, hopefully they won't immediately suicide after the time limit.