Sleight-of-hand question

[Spunky]

I can palm objects off tables or out of containers without being seen, but I can't put them in my cloak or pack without being seen.  Is there away to do this?

[Hikertrash]

I agree ... its annoying that I can't hide something I'm holding by secretly slipping into a pocket. I wish 'palm' worked this way.

[mansa]

Not currently.  No.

[John]

Yeah I idea'd being able to secretly put stuff away, and got told it was a neat idea and would be worked on...... one day I think this is like the "watch" command. We'll have to wait 8 years for it to be imp'd

[Carnage]

Don't worry about it.

Hell, I have a comment on my account about trying to cheat in a pepper eating contest from my second or third character. The entire time I was trying to find a way to palm the damn thing into my pants or belt.

[Quirk]

I think this is like the "watch" command. We'll have to wait 8 years for it to be imp'd

Sheesh, way to sound grateful for new code. So a code suggestion made ages ago wasn't taken up at the time, and time was found to code it more recently when it was suggested again - so what? There have been plenty of other code changes over the last 8 years.

You've got a new snippet of code remarkably quickly after it was suggested this most recent time. If your response to it is to grumble that it wasn't top priority 8 years ago, the coder's reaction may well be to wonder why he bothers producing anything based on player ideas and channel his efforts into something else. I don't think that's what you want to happen.

Quirk

[Dan]

He was joking, Quirk.

Aside from that, I think being able to palm into an object is a great idea.

[Quirk]

He was joking, Quirk.

Aside from that, I think being able to palm into an object is a great idea.

Yeah, I know he was joking. That doesn't make it any more motivating for a coder to hear. I rather doubt that if you had spent time voluntarily working on something for someone else, you'd want to hear "jokes" about how long it took you to finish, particularly if you were being asked to give of your time again to do another task.

Quirk

[Dan]

Im fairly sure they didn't work on that particular code change for eight years. The staff know that we appreciate what they do for us, why would we be here otherwise? I doubt that anyone on the staff has such thin skin as to take that joke as a reason to not code something else in. He was just poking fun, plain and simple, it happens all the time between the staff and players. It is one of the reasons why I like it here, the staff don't ban or punish people for having an opinion or cracking wise at them.

Back to the topic at hand-

I've been frustrated with not being able to empty something from my inventory silently before, but I was quite happy with the ability to pull things up quietly. Content with it, you could say.

[Gilvar]

Never really tried it, but you may be able to 'plant' it in your pack. Like you could plant it on a person unknowingly.

[mansa]

You can't be the victim of your own stealing.  You can't, Gilvar.

Plant only puts things into people's inventory.  And you have to be standing to do it.

Whereas, you can palm while seated.

Here, read this: http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=42300#42300

[Gilvar]

Then it would be a neat addition and I'll bug people about it.

[John]

Actually, I was only semi joking. We did wait eight years for the code change, but I don't see how me saying "we waited 8 years for code change X" is ungrateful.

So a code suggestion made ages ago wasn't taken up at the time, and time was found to code it more recently when it was suggested again - so what? There have been plenty of other code changes over the last 8 years.

Exactly. Things are put on a priority list (whether it's formal list or an informal one), those of higher priority get put on the top of the list, pushing other things down. Obviously the watch code wasn't as high on the priority list as the changes that have been made in the past 8 years, and that's fine.

This idea might be another low priority change that may take as long to implement. My post wasn't to say "shut up this idea has already been thought of" or to say "those lowsy Imms are too lazy to implement it." The point of my post was to say "An Imm showed interest in the idea a while ago, but who knows when it will be looked at, there's no indication it'll be looked at anytime soon."

I don't see how me referencing another instance where an Imm showed intrest yet it took a long time for it to be worked on is ungrateful.

[Sanvean]

Code comes slowly, yeah. Part of that is because what we've got works - it's not as though the coders need to put in time each week adding missing features, or fixing dire crash bugs, with the possible exception of the one I created last week. :p  The game's a lot more stable than it used to be, which I can only think is a good thing.

We try to make sure stuff is stable.
We try to make sure stuff is tested thoroughly before it goes in.
We try to make sure that a change doesn't unbalance things elsewhere.  
We try to make sure new code fits into the game, and that it's something that is balanced - that if it adds an inconvenience for players, for example, that it has something that offsets that.

Ness managed to put in code despite the fact he was the person handling the acocunt mail at the time, which takes at a minimum a couple of hours a day.  And the most prominent reaction to it was not "whee cool!" - it was "we asked for this 8 years ago!" (I'm not pointing a finger at John, who didn't mean to bitch about it - there were, it seemed, a lot of people saying the same thing.) That is, as Quirk notes, a little discouraging and not calculated to make anyone feel motivated.

I really wouldn't count on brand spanking new code features every week. If we're getting something that's more than tweaks once a month, that's pretty good, actually.  One of the things that offsets that (imo) is that the players have some input - if you go back over the past year to see what code came about because of a thread on this board, it's a pretty significant number.

Sometimes Armageddon seems like a black hole to me. We throw time and effort at it, but it's never enough, no matter what. Fix one thing, and three complaints about other things pop up. It's like playing a game of "Yes but" with someone - you point out something good, and everything gets countered with "Yes but..." This is partly because of the weekly update, I think.

The staff catches shit from players on a daily basis, whether it's the cute little digs in signatures, nasty wishes, people feeling obliged to relate what so and so just said on IRC or IM, or email.  And when any of those folk can point to having put the same amount of energy and time into the game that I have, I'll take them a lot more seriously.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I do want to say that it's the nice notes from people, the occasional "thanks!" or "woohoo!", the feedback, that keep us going and keep the game that we're all addicted to around. I really appreciate the people who take the time to provide those, and the ones who remember that we're people, just like anyone else, and that we can get discouraged, or hurt, or disappointed, as easily as anyone else.

[John]

And the most prominent reaction to it was not "whee cool!" - it was "we asked for this 8 years ago!"

Just in case you missed it, here was a "whee cool" thread. I don't know whether or not the "whee" reaction was prominent, but thought I'd point it out in case it was missed by the people who put the code in

(I understand what Sanvean was saying and that she was also speaking in general terms with code changes, but I wanted to reply to this example in case it was missed).

[Forest Junkie]

Actually, I was only semi joking. We did wait eight years for the code change, but I don't see how me saying "we waited 8 years for code change X" is ungrateful.

You should have said "thank you staff, this is much appreciated", instead of <bitch> <bitch> <bitch> <insert witty remark that makes you sound cool and stuff> <insert    to make it all better>

On topic:

The addition to slip stuff away into your cloak or pack without being seen would be a fine addition, I think.

I'll wait for brew to be finished though. Once that happens, I will bow before the staff's uberness.

[Bestatte]

Actually, I was only semi joking. We did wait eight years for the code change, but I don't see how me saying "we waited 8 years for code change X" is ungrateful.

You should have said "thank you staff, this is much appreciated", instead of <bitch> <bitch> <bitch> <insert witty remark that makes you sound cool and stuff> <insert    to make it all better>

On topic:

The addition to slip stuff away into your cloak or pack without being seen would be a fine addition, I think.

I'll wait for brew to be finished though. Once that happens, I will bow before the staff's uberness.

So, you don't bow before the staff's uberness now? You won't do this until they're finished brew? Or, are you just doing a "bitch bitch bitch insert witty remark that makes you sound cool and stuff" kinda thing?

Personally, I bow to the staff's uberness now. I would STILL like to see brew rewritten and reintroduced. But they're no less uber now than they will be once it's finished.

[Forest Junkie]

Actually, I was only semi joking. We did wait eight years for the code change, but I don't see how me saying "we waited 8 years for code change X" is ungrateful.

You should have said "thank you staff, this is much appreciated", instead of <bitch> <bitch> <bitch> <insert witty remark that makes you sound cool and stuff> <insert    to make it all better>

On topic:

The addition to slip stuff away into your cloak or pack without being seen would be a fine addition, I think.

I'll wait for brew to be finished though. Once that happens, I will bow before the staff's uberness.

So, you don't bow before the staff's uberness now? You won't do this until they're finished brew? Or, are you just doing a "bitch bitch bitch insert witty remark that makes you sound cool and stuff" kinda thing?

Personally, I bow to the staff's uberness now. I would STILL like to see brew rewritten and reintroduced. But they're no less uber now than they will be once it's finished.

DAMNIT YOU CAUGHT ME OMFG BESTATTE I AM A HYPOCRITICAL SUM BEATCH I JUST GOT SLAMMED YOU OWN ME!!!

The serious part:
No goober-head, I was not pulling a "bitch bitch bitch funny remark post" because I had no witty remark! Gosh silly! That therefore disqualifies me from my contest. John and yourself win by default!

I merely stated that being allowed to plant into your own articles of clothing would be nice, but brew would be nicer. It is my opinion on what should be higher up on the priorities list for things needed to be changed. Hopefully, the staff will agree and put it up there on "things to do" soon.

[Bestatte]

I agree, but this thread is about planting items inside other items. The brew thread is over there.

Bestatte points to the brew thread over there.

As far as planting stuff goes, I think it would be awesome to do it. I also know that the staff members have their pet projects, and whoever is working on brew isn't necessarily the one who would be picked to work on something like an addition to the plant code.

I also know that tearing down the old brew code and rebuilding it from scratch will likely be a much bigger project than adding to a fully functional existing bit of code, such as plant.

So I'm all for the idea of plant being expanded, whenever.

[Gorobei]

SKILL_SLEIGHT_OF_HAND                                            (Equipment)

  This skill allows the particularly deft of hand the chance to retrieve or
put away items without being noticed by the not particularly observant.

Syntax:
  palm (item) (container)
  slip (item) (container)

Example:
  palm card boot
  slip card boot

See also:
  palm, slip, drop, encumbrance, give, put, take

WHEEEE COOL!!!

[SpyGuy]

I bow to the uberness of the staff

[Bestatte]

I thought that's how palm always worked? Am I confusing things? I thought the idea of this thread was about palming something into someone ELSE's inventory.

To my knowledge, this is not an option at the present time.  You can't:

palm tablet Amos

or

palm poisoned-tankard amos's cloak

edited to add: oh okay I see how "slip" was added. It still doesn't solve the problem of getting something into someone else's pack or inventory.

[Tlaloc]

To do what you're suggesting, Bestette, use the 'plant' command.

IE: >plant tablet Amos

I don't think you can plant objects in victims containers. That would be a cool addition.

[Larrath]

SKILL_PLANT                                                     (Equipment)

  This skill allows your character to place an object into someone's
inventory, without their noticing (if successful). They will notice you
with your hands in their pockets if you fail. As the general populace do
not welcome one's hands in their pockets, this is a skill to be used with
caution.

Syntax:
  plant <object> <character name>

Example:
  > plant spice elf

  > plant gem templar

Notes:
  Failing the plant skill may result in your character becoming wanted as
  a criminal.

  Failing the plant skill may result in victim attacking, fleeing, or a
  combination of the two.

Delay: before


Someday, I too will learn how to make those special Quotey things with the odd messages.

[Sanvean]

SKILL_SLEIGHT_OF_HAND                                            (Equipment)

  This skill allows the particularly deft of hand the chance to retrieve or
put away items without being noticed by the not particularly observant.

Syntax:
  palm (item) (container)
  slip (item) (container)

Example:
  palm card boot
  slip card boot

See also:
  palm, slip, drop, encumbrance, give, put, take

Thanks to Tiernan for putting that in.