Help that newbie elf!

[Akaramu]

A friend of mine, from Achaea, just gave Arm a try, and misunderstood me about the difficulty of elves, resulting in an elf PC. She has been stumbling around totally confused about what to do, and apparently no one gave her a little help... people yelled at her because of her race, ignored her, or told her they were busy and ran off. Her english isnt perfect, either. I'm afraid she is about to give up on Arm.

Do you all act totally IC when running into a confused newbie elf? Or would someone go out of their way to at least interact with them a little? That poor newbie needs a little help. Its a potential new player.

I'm not sure how I would handle the situation while staying IC, but I believe that we must take a new player by the hand a little, otherwise we lose them all after a few hours. Thoughts?

[creeper386]

A friend of mine ...

Well, seems like you know this person outside from the MUD. So, the best person I can think of to help her would be YOU.

It's almost impossible to help teach things from in the game, as there is just TOO much crap to try and teach someone knew. If you recruit someone, you should make sure to help get them over the cliff of a learning curve(I don't think it's nearly that bad but some do).

I don't think anyone should change IC actions to help someone. Yes, they can go OOC. Most the time that won't be enough help. Unless they direct them to a helper or something, and the newbie acctually does just that. Myself, I personally don't think someone could really be wondering around completely lost with no idea of what to do if they read the documents. Even SOME of the documents. Specially if they have MUDing experience. Even if they aren't perfect with English.

I've brought one person over to Armageddon so far. She acctually listened to me, read the documentation, acctually put effort into it, and such. The questions she asked me were mostly dealing with where to FIND something in the docs, not anything specific. As most of what she needed was there, she was just having troubles finding it from time to time. Well, some people might say she's not the best RPer around, but I know that even including some lucky breaks she's doing quite well. As she never MUDed at all before, and her RPing was just message boarding on Yahoo! which is way different sort of RP then a MUD, and ussually not quite on the same scale as is found here at Armageddon.

Over all, I'd say you're in the best position to help your friend. WAY more then anyone else could that runs into that character. It could not even be too obvious they are completely new so you can't jump on people who brush the elf off. Just reading some of the starting documentation alone would have reaffirmed what you told them that playing an elf is going to be difficult. Probably would have given them an idea so that they weren't completely lost too.

Maybe I'm just an asshole, but, all the information to start out, even for a person COMPLETELY new to RPing, and has never MUDed in their life. Sometimes it might take someone to help them find some documents, but alot of the basic stuff is all there, and pretty easy to find. Oh, and I'm still wondering why you want to act like people should stop their game to help them, when you know this person and could easiely help them yourself, even being somewhat new ... I don't know, just seems like you want to blame people for not helping and running off characters but not helping yourself... I'm sure I'm completely wrong though. You just made sure they knew exactly what they needed to know.


Creeper

[Akaramu]

I'm not quite in the best position to help, I'm at the other end of the world IC. And I have no idea about the place where she is. I dont know any taverns there, I dont know who might possibly hire her. I cant give her pointers about how to behave in certain situations. Because I have no idea about the area she is located at.

And she did read a lot of the docs, but they confused her, she's trying her best. I spent a LOT of time reading before I started, myself, and everything still confused the heck out of me. I am neither dumb nor did I not try hard enough. And I have MUD experience.

[Akaramu]

Editted for being off topic
-Nidhogg

[Pungee]

Everyone gets reamed their first time through. It's not a matter of intelligence, it's not a matter of reading the docs ninety times. I remember waiting for my first character I read every document linked on armageddon.org and I still logged in and made a dumbass of myself. I learned quick though and soon things started to click. Just tell your friend to keep at it.

[John]

apparently no one gave her a little help...

That's IC, and while completely fine, I do try to help newbies if I can. Yeah, I'm breaking IC with helping an elf, and I'll be sure to put it in my emotes and talks saying "the man says grudgingly "go down the road and make a left""

[Akaramu]

I understand it is IC to ignore an elf. Look at my first post, I was asking for thoughts about how one could take a newbie elf by the hand a little without breaking ICness.  

[Northlander]

Coming to Arm as a fresh one was oh so horrible and strange up until my character had got himself hired and found a few friends. Among new players, she's certainly not in any minority for thinking things are hard.

Two suggestions:

You could have her create a new character. It's harsh, and more work and time to invest, but playing a human is so much easier on the newcomer. That is, a newcomer who doesn't enjoy being shouted at, treated worse than kankshit, and handed a character, an untribed Elf, that's downright hard to play believably. Start her new character up closer to your character.

Or hook her up with a Helper. The Helper would know more about the city where she started, would have experience in helping newcomers, and would hopefully also have experience with playing an Elf.

Good luck to her.

[wizturbo]

I personally suggest, that there be a level -1 karma.  Which is what you are when your account is brand new, and you've never played Arm before.

Only race option is human, only starting places are allanak and tuluk, and perhaps even remove the merchant class option.

After your first character, your automatically brought to level 0 karma and things become like they are today.


I've had a friend who started off in the 'rinth for his first character, and it discouraged him from the game.  I'd personally love to see a larger population, and this game is very challenging to newcomers, i think these steps would really bring things in the right direction.

[aeshyw]

I may well be the person who your friend thought was 'yelling' at them because of their race - though that was certainly not my intention.  It was an awkward situation ICly, with a strange elf standing there smiling and seeming very nice and lost - so much so that I was wishing up hoping someone might email her with the suggestion she start over again as a human...and about to OOC the same to her, when she logged off.  Later, again just as I was about to OOC to her, she went to a much busier area -right before I had to log off myself, unfortunately.  It was a matter of bad timing.

I would really suggest your friend mail the account and ask to start over as a human.  She would find it an entirely different game.  I'd also suggest that she might want to try the Byn or the Atrium to get herself started with some extra help.  She shouldn't take some remarks about elves being thieves or perhaps unwelcome with the 'best' people as personal,  they were truly meant to offer some clues about elves not being the same delicate, friendly folks from Tolkienesque RP that she was probably thinking of.

Please feel free to have her contact myself or one of the other helpers for some assistance if she does decide to give it another go.

[Carnage]

A friend of mine, from Achaea, just gave Arm a try, and misunderstood me about the difficulty of elves, resulting in an elf PC. She has been stumbling around totally confused about what to do, and apparently no one gave her a little help... people yelled at her because of her race, ignored her, or told her they were busy and ran off. Her english isnt perfect, either. I'm afraid she is about to give up on Arm.

Do you all act totally IC when running into a confused newbie elf? Or would someone go out of their way to at least interact with them a little? That poor newbie needs a little help. Its a potential new player.

I'm not sure how I would handle the situation while staying IC, but I believe that we must take a new player by the hand a little, otherwise we lose them all after a few hours. Thoughts?

Edited by Nidhogg

Frankly, I don't understand exactly what you want. Do you want me to suddenly act out of character, put every other piece of interaction with someone else on hold at the moment, and take some newbie's hand to walk them through the game just because they didn't read the docs? I don't care of this comes across as harsh or discourages a million new players, but tough. Try reading over the actual documentation and learning more about the game. We aren't here to hold your hand and guide you through every little thing. The docs are.

[Quirk]

Let's at least try to be somewhat encouraging here. Did no-one here make any mistakes while they were a newbie? Did everyone read every single piece of documentation before entering the game? I think not.

Now, playing an elf is never going to be the best introduction to Arm. It's hard to find work and to find friends. They're scoundrels and thieves, and you need some knowledge of how the game works before you can handle them well. The way I see it there are only a couple of options, because people are only going to bend so far for a newbie, and that's never going to stretch to taking an elf under their wing.

The first option is, as has already been mentioned, to get her to retire the elf and create a human instead. Life is amazingly easier for humans. Everyone wants to hire you. Some people are even going to be openly friendly to you, particularly if you're friendly first.

The second option is to find a good player with a fairly in-depth knowledge of the game who's currently without a character to play an elf to be a family member and a mentor to her. This isn't going to make life miraculously easy, and while said mentor is offline she'll have to cope with the abuse and dislike alone. It does however give her a good introduction to elves if she still wishes to play one.

The Helpers can help to some degree, but they can't make a character that's almost unplayable for an uninformed newbie playable. I'm a strong believer that "family members" have a lot going for them - having a friendly mentor on hand in game can help a lot.

Quirk

[flurry]

Akaramu -

That's great that you brought a new player in and I hope she feels welcome.  Despite other impressions she may have, she -is- welcome, there are people who want to help her, and if she finds things difficult now that is completely normal and will improve.

I agree with the advice about playing a human instead.   As an elf, she will find that non-elves are reluctant to talk with her, and she may have quite a difficult time finding a job.   She can always try playing an elf again later.  

I recommend she get in touch with a helper, who could help deal with some of her questions while she's playing over AIM or email or something.

[Akaramu]

Editted by Nidhogg

As for documents being the best resource, I learned to be a good roleplayer through IC interaction. The docs are absolutely overwhelming for new players. And not everyone is patient enough to spend 3 days studying them before getting started. The docs do by no means replace IC learning.

I agree with wizturbo's idea. Totally new players should only be able to create a human. Or if they die right away, make it the first 15 or so hours played.

It IS possible to help a newbie out without leaving IC borders. Even I can think of a few possibilities.

You could...

...spend 10 minutes telling and showing them why you dislike elves. It will a) teach the player more about why his race is unpopular and b) Give them a chance to interact and learn emotes.

You could tell them in an unfriendly way to go somewhere else instead, where people who might be more likely to interact with them hang out. You could give directions. And be a grumpy bastard while doing so. And make a quick OOC comment about how your unfriendliness is IC, and they shouldnt be discouraged by it.

I could think of more but I dont have time right now.  

[flurry]

Just as a side comment - Akaramu never said that her friend didn't read the docs (in fact she specifically said that her friend had read the docs).  Perhaps it's better not to make wild assumptions, and try to be helpful.    Even after reading the docs, new players have a difficult time at first.    Almost always.  There's nothing unusual about that, and there's no reason to assume she hasn't read the docs.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Having spoken to this person, I think she's down to try. I don't see a line of resistance to input. That said, she seemed a bit unsure as to what to do. She seemed very energetic in trying the game out, you see, and very scared to do something worng, and that's all gravy, certianly.

She knows, I hope, that she can contact me, or any of the many helpers, whenever a question arises that she needs answering. I welcome her to the game and hope that she sticks about. And, Akaruma, if YOU need assistance in assisting her, then feel free to do the same.

[Lasakar]

Elf was just unlucky choice for the first time. And she should let the fingers away from merchant, it is nearly impossible to play for a newbie.

I have made the experience that the people just more friendlier in the game than on this GDB. Never had a OOC problem in the game.

[Sandferret]

I, too, have been talking to this player since last night.  It is not that she did not read the documents, but digesting it all takes time.

It is very sad to see some of these posts condemning a very nice person, who will in my opinion be a very good player before long. Her one mistake was to start with a race that is not accepted by all. It has lead to her not having much chance for asking help IC.

Lost in an unfamiliar surroundings, no-one to help her find her way...Have you never been in that situation? I was. My first character was completely lost and confused in Allanak. I looked for a place to quit for an hour, too shy to ask anyone. I was not an elf, but I was a pickpocket and feared that people would somehow realise that.

Did I read the documents? Yes. I did. But I did not understand many of the things until much later. One needs both theory and practice to develope.

Unfortunately, it don't have a character that could help this elf. But I would be very glad to play with this player in the future if the characters are compatible. Don't be discouraged, you are doing a fine job there.

[MA]

Ok, I think I should point out couple of things myself (I finally figured how to do it, I hope :-) ). I am the person about who you are all talking, the silly elf newbie. Yes, I really read documemts. I tried my best to understand them.  But this all is really new for me, lot of new things, and I easy get confused. I knew elves are harder. I was warned. I wanted to try. Ok, it was not the best thing to do, but I will not change it now. At least, I can learn about elves a bit, no?
I am really -really- not whining about anyone´s RP. People thought my char is meanie lil thief just because she is elf? Great. At least, they -are- thinking something. I do not know who was the lady ´yelling´ at me, but I learned a lot about emotes by that. Plus (of course) I learned a lot about elves. And yes, this is thanks for unknown lady :-)
Umm... and yes. I am confused, lost, not sure what to do, rereading documents again and again, bothering people around, spamming Helpers with qouestions and do silly things (because I do not know they are silly. You are not smiling all the time when you are nervous?). Problem is I want to learn it. I want to try it. I am doing mistakes, I am sorry for mistakes I am doing, but... that doesnt mean I have to leave, does it? I guess all newbies in all MUDs are like that. Confused, annoying and lost. I am maybe more confused, annoying and lost then usual, because of my language barrier and I have not enough self-assurance, but I still want to try it.
Thanks all who are helping me with that.

Maria

[Akaramu]

I love you to bits hunny, and you know it  

Dont listen to Carnage and creeper, they are mean old grumps who swallow a cactus every morning.

[Not the yelling meanie]

I'm almost positive I'm one of the people who interacted with your character. If you were the one who had some chick OOC and say that "leave" was how to get out of the building. After you kept going back and forth from room to room.
When I first started I came from a place where "out" was how to get out so I had the same problem you did. So I understand the frustration. Don't feel bad. Everyone struggles with something when they get into something new.
I think it's great that you're going to try and stick it out with your elf but don't feel like you're failing if you change your mind and ask to retire the character. It isn't a failure for you. It's just a huge adjustment you have to make, and you might be more comfortable with a less huge one.
If the yelling meanie helped you learn about elves that's great! Oh and if I ever find your hand in my pocket I'll slice your fingers off.  
It's a different world, mudding. It takes a lot of getting used to especially when you switch to a new game and have the language barrier to deal with. Don't let yourself get too frustrated, relax, let things happen however they happen, and don't think you have to stay alive at all costs. Some of my best RP moments were the ones that ended up with my character being dead.

Good luck and welcome!

[Carnage]

You could...

...spend 10 minutes telling and showing them why you dislike elves. It will a) teach the player more about why his race is unpopular and b) Give them a chance to interact and learn emotes.

Yeah, see, that's already in help_elf and some of the other elf files. You could spend 10 minutes doing that, or you could spend hours disrupting roleplaying and other people just to find someone explain to you why nobody likes elves.

Dont listen to Carnage and creeper, they are mean old grumps who swallow a cactus every morning.

I'm not a babysitter. I'm not an instructor. I don't play this game to help newbie #2428 who complains about being confused, I play it to sit back and help me unwind. Underneath my name, is there anything that says the word 'Helper'? No. Therefore, any criticism about people being mean and actually being in character is useless.

This sort of shit happens at least once a week. Some people stay, some go. If you feel that I'm a 'grump' because I don't want to help every single newbie I see who suffers "Help I'm Lost And Confused And No One Likes Me Syndrome", then you're nuts.

[MA]

I am newbie without complex "Noone Likes Me". And maybe I am dumb, but I do not believe it´s true that -nobody- likes elves. I guess, at least, elves likes theirself.
M.

[Ralin]

Don't worry about it, your not dumb, your new, everyone struggles the first time. My first character I lost in a days time because I did something stupid without knowing I was doing something stupid.   Just give it time, the longer you stick it out the more you'll learn and the easier it will get.

[Akaramu]

Carnage, do you ever listen?

This whole thread was not directed to you, it was directed to those willing to be constructive. You successfully ignored every single point made so far that counters your argumentation. Like you do so often. I fail to take that kind of person seriously, you simply post to discourage others and show them how ignorant and how far below you they are. Whats the point? If you dont care, dont post. Dont even read the thread.

I didnt call you a grump because I want you to babysit newbies (for gods sake, dont, you'd bite their heads off). I did because you post for no reason other than to be negative, ignore the argumentation of others, discourage a newbie, make up false assumptions, and remind us a dozen times that you dont care.