Lots of Conflict on a Small Scale

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Good bloody hell. I like this mothafucka Gesht.

I suspect that after I have fulfilled my commitment to myself with my current project, I will be contributing to your cause. To be sure, every single thing he said was right on point as far as I am concerned.

But the question then arises...do the other immortals concur? Because if they don't, then we have a problem.

[spawnloser]

Well, I can say that I agree with Gesht on one general principle...too many PC deaths are to NPCs.  There should be a higher percentage of PC deaths to fellow PCs.  Unfortunately, I can also say that some immortals do seem reluctant to authorize PK by their clannies.

[Krath]

Good bloody hell. I like this mothafucka Gesht.

I suspect that after I have fulfilled my commitment to myself with my current project, I will be contributing to your cause. To be sure, every single thing he said was right on point as far as I am concerned.

But the question then arises...do the other immortals concur? Because if they don't, then we have a problem.

What he said.

[Carnage]

Unfortunately, I can also say that some immortals do seem reluctant to authorize PK by their clannies.

What?

I've never, EVER had to go to an immortal for them to 'authorize' a PK. I've e-mailed the clan immortal and told them what I was planning on doing, and they gave their input about it (one of my imms was a real glutton for plots) but they never ever tried to be in a position where they would say "No, sorry, you can't do this" and force-feed decisions to me.

[Lazloth]

It does happen though.  I imagine the reference is to a decision or planned activity being overriden at the senior [v/npc] level.

[EvilRoeSlade]

What?

I've never, EVER had to go to an immortal for them to 'authorize' a PK. I've e-mailed the clan immortal and told them what I was planning on doing, and they gave their input about it (one of my imms was a real glutton for plots) but they never ever tried to be in a position where they would say "No, sorry, you can't do this" and force-feed decisions to me.

I want to know what clan you're playing, since this discussion reminds me of playing a templar and being shot in the foot everytime I wanted to kill someone.  Out of three times in which I planned secret assassinations, I was stopped once to prevent infighting (so I understand the reasons) but on the other two I just got lame "we can't harm our relations with clan X by secretly offing grunt Y" speeches from the Reds.

[spawnloser]

Yeah, ERS...my biggest issue is that I'm a member of Clan A whose rival is Clan B but I was told not to assassinate member of Clan B.  It just...didn't quite make a whole lot of sense to me.

[Carnage]

I want to know what clan you're playing, since this discussion reminds me of playing a templar and being shot in the foot everytime I wanted to kill someone. Out of three times in which I planned secret assassinations, I was stopped once to prevent infighting (so I understand the reasons) but on the other two I just got lame "we can't harm our relations with clan X by secretly offing grunt Y" speeches from the Reds.

I'd rather not say, as it'd give away who I've played but I'll give another example: about a year or so ago though, I e-mailed Vendyra with a plan to kill another clanmate and she was fine with it and just replied back with making sure to be aware of everything I was doing and so forth. The other two imms I was recently under (at separate times) were both okay and happy that there was conflict and so forth. I've never gotten a no answer.

If you wanted to, you probably could have secretly killed those people. You would have been in IC trouble, but did your imm ever come down and give you a flat out OOC no?

[Quirk]

I'd rather not say, as it'd give away who I've played but I'll give another example: about a year or so ago though, I e-mailed Vendyra with a plan to kill another clanmate and she was fine with it and just replied back with making sure to be aware of everything I was doing and so forth. The other two imms I was recently under (at separate times) were both okay and happy that there was conflict and so forth. I've never gotten a no answer.

If you wanted to, you probably could have secretly killed those people. You would have been in IC trouble, but did your imm ever come down and give you a flat out OOC no?

I think wires are crossed somewhere. I believe you're referring to internal conflicts between clan members, whereas everyone else in this thread has been referring to the restrictions placed on those leading a clan when it comes to assassinating members of other important clans, given that NPC/VNPC superiors tend to grow upset over incidents likely to have a significant impact on inter-House relations.

Quirk

[Carnage]

I think wires are crossed somewhere. I believe you're referring to internal conflicts between clan members, whereas everyone else in this thread has been referring to the restrictions placed on those leading a clan when it comes to assassinating members of other important clans, given that NPC/VNPC superiors tend to grow upset over incidents likely to have a significant impact on inter-House relations.

Nope, I'm referring to both. The example I cited was within the house, the rest were outside.

[Kalden]

You guys are derailing the thread, which is hard enough to follow as it is.

The first thing is that there is a small player clan that should have been started long ago: a city elf tribe. There have been a few, I'm sure, but that's the easiest place to start. There are a couple reasons for this:

Income. It's a hard thing when you're independent. Elves love to steal. That leaves you a good IC way to make money, and lots of it. You can also do crafting.

Crime and plots. Elves are always plotting, so it's easy to get involved in interesting criminal plots. Assassinations, spice dealing, pissed off customers... all that.

As it is, it sounds like people are pushing more for human gangs, which, while they sound interesting, would be hard to play. I like the idea, though. Maybe I'll add some more creative input later.

[Quirk]

As it is, it sounds like people are pushing more for human gangs, which, while they sound interesting, would be hard to play. I like the idea, though. Maybe I'll add some more creative input later.

"Gangs" isn't the word I'd use. I think this is mainly about non-criminal organisations analogous to the Houses but operating much lower down the social scale.

Quirk

[Kalden]

Gangs are the most apt term.

Consider this:

And so it appeared to have been: with merchants murdered in the night and secret dealings in dark alleys, much of the Allanaki economy has moved underground, the result being that many more honest merchants have been driven out of business, and the general prosperity has declined.

And this:

Strangely enough, the 'rinth is also where many of the city's small to medium-sized business contracts are negotiated, now that much of the economy has gone underground.

It's very difficult for the "average" commoner to make a living. Crime is very common. A family of commoners would band together. Thugs would be necessary to protect any crafters from the evil Merchant Houses.

I've always thought that the family bonds between humans should be emphasized more. The only people you can really trust are your blood relatives. Hell... the Guild should be lead by a it's own House, as a mockery of the Merchant Houses. Godfather mafia sort of shit. But that's branching off into another topic.

[Quirk]

We are not, however, just talking about 'Nak here. As a side note, I would very much like to see that portion of the docs paid attention to - I've run into fairly old and experienced characters in game who claim that the 'Rinth is simply a den of thieves, and flat-out denied the idea of "the 'rinth is also where many of the city's small to medium-sized business contracts are negotiated". Of course, most 'Nak PCs are too high-class or too low-class to fit this model, but that doesn't mean the VNPCs aren't wheeling and dealing in the slums.

A merchant or merchant family would be well advised to have guards wherever they do business, but I wouldn't see them as "gangs", particularly not in Tuluk. The main aim of the guards would be to protect the business, not to make a living through theft and violence, as I'd see a "gang" doing.

Thugs would be necessary to protect any crafters from the evil Merchant Houses.

The Merchant Houses won't even register the existence of a band of crafters until they're taking up enough of the market to be a threat. The current situation where a Merchant House PC will out of boredom attempt to have some PC crafter or crafters dispatched for working in the same field is highly improbable. If they do get to the size that they're deemed worthy of notice, they'd need to have a small army of guards to be safe from the Merchant Houses' attempts to destroy them.

Quirk

[EvilRoeSlade]

The first thing is that there is a small player clan that should have been started long ago: a city elf tribe. There have been a few, I'm sure, but that's the easiest place to start. There are a couple reasons for this:

I disagree with that.  A city elf tribe isn't the easiest place to start in my opinion.  It's one of those niches that just won't be able to exist while every character in the game is either in a noble house, a merchant house, or the Atrium.

Income. It's a hard thing when you're independent. Elves love to steal. That leaves you a good IC way to make money, and lots of it. You can also do crafting.

Thieving is very tricky.  People will overreact to it.  People will use OOC information to decide that you're the thief (if you're the only elf/PC not decked out in House armor, for instance).  People will automatically blame an elf for being the thief, ignoring large virtual populations of elves.  From my experience, PCs in noble houses are especially likely to do this.

Crime and plots. Elves are always plotting, so it's easy to get involved in interesting criminal plots. Assassinations, spice dealing, pissed off customers... all that.

Nobodies going to want to hire you when they have their all-mighty (human) House Guards to pull off their waxings.  A similar situation exists for spice.  As it stands now, there is a very limited amount of people that a city elf can have meaningful interaction with.

I'm not trying to shoot down your aspirations, all I want to do is point out that if all that comes of this conversation is a few people trying to form their own clans, in the end nothing will change.  A small-scale clan just can't survive in the land of silk and House armor.  For anything to change, we at least need the blessings of staff members.