Murder. Corruption. Betrayal.

[X-D]

7DV wrote:

Perhaps everyone missed the suggestion that having a cap would encourage those independant clans. Remember, a lot of the clans that are in the game currently, started as independant clans. With limited positions available, you can be assured that players will begin to rise to the occassion, thus birthing those commoner clans.

And, so would responsible hiring practices, while still allowing flexability that a cap would not. If the people hiring for the houses picked the best and most fitting chars this would leave the others still needing work and such and some would be like minded and band together, etc etc.

Besides, with a cap, I tell you right now, if my char wants in he/she is getting in, if the only reason is that "we have enough guards" A simple matter of making it so they do not have enough guards. But if he/she does not get hired because they simply are not what the house needs, then no amount of herd culling is going to get him in.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Besides, with a cap, I tell you right now, if my char wants in he/she is getting in, if the only reason is that "we have enough guards" A simple matter of making it so they do not have enough guards. But if he/she does not get hired because they simply are not what the house needs, then no amount of herd culling is going to get him in.

Adressing the first matter: So? Isn't that an example I gave, as an additional facat of the new plots hatched because of this?

Secondly, with a cap and leadership, you still would not get hired if you were not made for the House.

[aeshyw]

If the noble houses just enforced the standards they have in previous times, there would be no overwhelming force of employees.  Characters with shady backgrounds, 'rinthi appearances (even without accents), who have been in jail or who have been kicked out of other houses should never be given 'second chances' in the guise of what should ICly be the most sought after opportunity in the world.

I would like to see NPC superiors taking recruiters to task to explain exactly how such people have managed to slip past their interview and background checks.  There is no need for caps, simple responsible recruiting will alleviate the issue.

[Anonymous]

Background checks?  *boggle*  It's a city of 500k people.  Finding out who has been where or in jail shouldn't be a given.

Look, when I am a recruiter I have one goal - to provide more warm bodies to the clan so that existing players have others to interact with.  Specifically guards and hunters have someone to go through their routine with because I know exactly how boring it can be to stand in a sparring room and emote slashing at a sparring dummy.  Moreover, the majority of clans won't allow PCs outside the walls except in groups of three or more with a PC leader ranking at least higher than recruit.  The average PC in those clans that I've seen leaves the clan when given an opportunity after a few RL weeks of sparring and goes off to do whatever.  Between PCs quitting the clan and just getting killed, it is very hard to keep an active guard force.

All of this talk about finding the right PCs for the job, and being selective is very noble but completely unfitting for a game with several clans and dozens of divisions total within those clans and an average high of 60 players.  

If the mud was peaking at 100+ all of this talk would have a much better basis.  Until that is a reality, then the only way to keep a clan active as a recruiter is to hire anyone that can fog up a mirror.

[X-D]

7DV wrote:

Secondly, with a cap and leadership, you still would not get hired if you were not made for the House.

Lets maybe look at it this way, Enforced caps would not cause good leadership or recruiting practices, But good leadership and recruiting practices would lower the number of chars that would get into a house while raising the general quality of the house's guard force while still allowing flexibility. I also do not like the idea of basicly enforcing an equality on all the houses, there is no reason why a well run house Should not be able to employ the 15 best warriors in the city, this also helps with feelings on balance of power and such, something I think should only be controled by pc's, the npc and vnpc pops being the static ones.

This also is something we did in the past, if you remember, Recruited and trained and kept the best while turning the less then the best towards that other house and releasing people after trial phase and pointing them towards that same house, too bad thier recruiters were not very choosy.
And you can't argue against that point 7DV:)

Also, I'm going to say, often the number of people working for a house often looks different from the outside then it really is. I remember a kadian (I think family member) Having a fit and claiming that the house My char was an officer for "employed half the city" Though at the time there was only 7 guards and 2 aides, out of the guards only 4 of them were active, one was semi active and the other two, shrug, I think they just quit playing. Hhhmmm, might have only been one aide, shrug.

I was thinking about pointing out what happens when you have a cap and restrictive recruiting practices, but the people in and running Tor might get annoyed, so I won't.

[aeshyw]

I submit that as long as you continue to look at the issue of recruiting in an OOC 'fill the clan with warm bodies' manner, you will perpetuate the problem.

There are clans that insist on tedious interview processes, background checks and training periods that result in expulsions for anyone simply 'not good enough', and I'll tell you...they ICly snicker behind their hands when they see the blanket 'if it breathes, we'll recruit it' strategy, especially when their own rejects get taken in.

Perhaps it is more fun to RP in a clan that always has someone available to spar with at any hour of the day or night.  But I think there are clans that are more ICly appropriate for that type of gameplay then the noble houses.  The noble houses are where the -elite- of society serve people that are better then anyone else. The notion of a bunch of ragtag roustabouts wearing the livery of a noble house is ICly ludicrous.  The noble guard forces are not the places to rehabilitate the scum of society.  They are the place where the best of the best enforce strict standards and display dignified conduct (mind you..things go bad and there is room for RP within this concept, I'm talking about recruiting here).  Recruiters have to look at things from an IC perspective rather then OOC.

Want something to keep grubby PCs busy instead of hiring them as recruits?  Hire them to find out about your other potential recruits.  Let them kill each other off to get that -one- open position.  Let three or four men know that they're all up for only one opening and watch the fun begin.  It might take longer to build a monster force to go play in the sands, but what you end up with in the end might just be one of those groups that everyone remembers years later.

[X-D]

CRW wrote:

All of this talk about finding the right PCs for the job, and being selective is very noble but completely unfitting for a game with several clans and dozens of divisions total within those clans and an average high of 60 players.

If the mud was peaking at 100+ all of this talk would have a much better basis. Until that is a reality, then the only way to keep a clan active as a recruiter is to hire anyone that can fog up a mirror.

Really? I've done it three times now in two different clans, in the last 4 years.
It is not easy, and even the good chars/players do dumb things and run out alone and die. But, given patience on the part of the recruiter and the other guards, it can be done.

The first and second time I had 0 imm and noble support either, the third time was with a great Imm and a great noble. On the last one, he (or the noble) recruited some people over 30 ic years ago now and he has been gone for better then ten yet  some of the people he recruited are still in house. Sure, in the beginning, when nobody was in the house we recruited heavy, till we got 1 or 2 pc's that seemed like they would make it, then recruitment slowed and even those recruited, over half of them were let go or left on thier own before the trial period was up.

And Far from "hiring anybody that can fog a mirror" the two clans I'm talking about probly were among the top 3 most powerful clans as far as pc's and that was from being selective.

If you think hiring anything that moves is the only way to go, then I think you haven't given any other methods a try or you simply are not very good at it.


(edit)
Ash wrote:

There are clans that insist on tedious interview processes, background checks and training periods that result in expulsions for anyone simply 'not good enough', and I'll tell you...they ICly snicker behind their hands when they see the blanket 'if it breathes, we'll recruit it' strategy, especially when their own rejects get taken in

Yes, we did laugh ICly, I still do now and again OOCly.

[mansa]

I also do not like the idea of basicly enforcing an equality on all the houses, there is no reason why a well run house Should not be able to employ the 15 best warriors in the city, this also helps with feelings on balance of power and such, something I think should only be controled by pc's, the npc and vnpc pops being the static ones.

Again.  Trust me on this.  Population of PCs in a clan DOES NOT show you which house is more powerful than other houses.  

Examples:  
A) If Kadius has 20 PCs in it, and Kurac has 5, Kurac is STILL MORE POWERFUL in regards to ARMY STRENGTH.
B) If Tenneshi has 4 PCs in it, and Uaptal has 40, Tenneshi is STILL MORE POWERFUL.
C) If Oash has 0 PCs in it, and Fale has 10, Oash is STILL MORE POWERFUL.

Also, I'm going to say, often the number of people working for a house often looks different from the outside then it really is. I remember a kadian (I think family member) Having a fit and claiming that the house My char was an officer for "employed half the city" Though at the time there was only 7 guards and 2 aides, out of the guards only 4 of them were active, one was semi active and the other two, shrug, I think they just quit playing. Hhhmmm, might have only been one aide, shrug.

It truely does.  However, remember;  There are over 100 people in _each_ of the coded clans, right now.  Some of them aren't visible at all.  The world is more than just the PCs.

[X-D]

Again. Trust me on this. Population of PCs in a clan DOES NOT show you which house is more powerful than other houses.

Yes yes, I well know that, I don't truly agree with the way it is often handled, nor do I like the fact that it makes things static unless the staff agrees to a change. Though this is the wrong thread to get into that topic, I will say this, The number of npc's should be reflected from the number of pc's to a point, specialy when you get into HRPT's.

Also Mansa

I think should only be controled by pc's, the npc and vnpc pops being the static ones.

Notice the words, At no time did I say this is the way it -is- rather the way I think it -should- be. That PC's -should- have a larger affect on the happenings of the world and balance of power, -specialy- in larger or more powerful clans.



X-D is among the number of people that get annoyed when people answer without reading completly.