Re: Requiring alts for Clan Boards

[Tuannon]

Personally, I think this step is fairly long overdue given the change in playstyle and so on some of the longer term players will employ if they know who is playing who. Both for the positive and the negative, also I include myself in that 'some'.

Thank you for pushing this through, Usiku.

I think a standard of just naming your account after the character or their rank is perfection.

[Agent_137]

This is a good time to do it with all the new players.

I was thinking it'd be hard to use all these alts if you were trying to communicate play times with messages, but those can just go to your email, and even board notifications can be sent to your email. And even if you don't have gmail and its nice + trick, you can just forward your alt emails to your main.

Setting up one for even indy characters seems advantageous. It will make it much easier to just say "hey, yes, I will make/buy X for/from you, message me on the gdb at My-PC-Name if you can't find me in a few RL days so we can setup a time."

I don't really want to be so flippant with my main gdb account, but if it's specific to my PC, who cares?


This is my only worry:

Thank you for signing up. The admin must approve your registration before you may begin to use your account, you will receive an email shortly advising you of the admins decision.

But I guess if the name matches a current PC, it's a pretty easy approve.

[zealus]

This is my only worry:

Thank you for signing up. The admin must approve your registration before you may begin to use your account, you will receive an email shortly advising you of the admins decision.

But I guess if the name matches a current PC, it's a pretty easy approve.

As long as you use a legit email adress, and don't sound like a russian spambot, we're pretty quick with this

[Tailong]

Well, I am opposed.

Why not just allow clan leaders ONLY to post for RPTs and make everything read only?

I will not make another account, and if I join a clan, everything will just have to be told to me ICly, as it should anyway. I'm not making an account for every clanned PC I make, if I ever make another clanned PC,  just cause people want to break rules.

I am probably alone in this stance.

[eska]

I am probably alone in this stance.

You are not.

I don't like to be forced to create a new account whenever I make a new PC. Why not let people decide whether they create a new account or use their current ones?

Actually I don't mind if people plot against me or not.

[altaccount]

I love it. I get to be so mysterious and interesting.

[Patuk]

1. Nobody who OOCly conspires needs to do so via the GDB. They'd be stupid to, in fact. They're just gonna have cozy Discord groups that are far more suitable for this kind of thing

2. This is extremely tedious and is just going to have people not bother with clan GDB's at all

3. I am deeply, deeply sceptical of the stated reason for this change and am genuinely unimpressed of some second-order effects this change will no doubt have.

[Valkyrja]

1. Nobody who OOCly conspires needs to do so via the GDB. They'd be stupid to, in fact. They're just gonna have cozy Discord groups that are far more suitable for this kind of thing

2. This is extremely tedious and is just going to have people not bother with clan GDB's at all

3. I am deeply, deeply sceptical of the stated reason for this change and am genuinely unimpressed of some second-order effects this change will no doubt have.

1. This isn't to limit or change how people break the rules. It's to protect the players who would be targeted by rulebreakers.

2. Sorry.

3. Tell me more?

[Tailong]

1. This isn't to limit or change how people break the rules. It's to protect the players who would be targeted by rulebreakers.

This absolutely will not change someone who is intent on causing harm and breaking rules, you are right. It just makes it not worth while for people like me to join in and enjoy interacting on the clan GDBs because I am being forced to do something I do not wish to do. I am perfectly capable of protecting myself.

You do realize that as small as this community actually is, we don't need to join a clan to figure out who plays who, right? Each of us have tells, whether it be a writing style or character descriptions, or roles? I am sure there are a few of you out there, that have been playing together for years now and immediately pick each other out.

I'm not in the discord, and now I'm not going to be in any clan GDBs after my current character. People talk on the discord, let things slip, and people figure things out without needing the GDB clan forums. I don't think enforcing this is a good change, because the majority of your player base already don't bother to engage at all except ICly.

[Delusion]

This seems like a way to plaster over a symptom of bigger underlying problems relating to the behavior of, I assume, a few players.

One major issue is that the game maintains its own Discord server and it was set up without any apparent revision of game rules. I don't use it, mostly because I was barely playing the game when it was introduced and haven't yet bothered with it. That was set up by the game staff and it is a given that people in Discord groups will DM each other and chat. Personally, I think the idea of trying to restrict out-of-game communication about a fundamentally social hobby is an outdated policy that needs serious revision. Most RP games bar using information obtained out of game, then act on it when it happens. However, if Armageddon's staff are set on the current policy, which I assume they are, then having the Discord server is self-sabotaging. In fact, having a game Discord, for the same game where people could barely mention jcarter's forum ten years back, without the policies having changed, is very strange to me.

That's not the real problem though. The problem is that the game still has the sorts of people who think it's okay to send inappropriate messages to other players. I would be far more comfortable if I had come along and read an announcement that there had been bans, which is the only proper action if a community has such a person in it. This comes across as trying to work around problematic people instead of simply banning them. If they weren't still playing, then there would be no need for this new rule. As it stands, this announcement is discomfitting. There is no indication of a ban, but instead that all players are required to adapt to accommodate problematic people.

I really encourage staff to rethink their approach. If someone is sending inappropriate messages to people, it's not the job of any game's staff to try to accommodate or therapize that person. We are all adults here. You just don't need to. Underlying this, even if subconsciously, staff of some games sometimes worry that they will lose players if they come across as ban-happy. The reality is that removing problem players from any game community actually makes that community larger and healthier.

[Valkyrja]

It just makes it not worth while for people like me to join in and enjoy interacting on the clan GDBs because I am being forced to do something I do not wish to do. I am perfectly capable of protecting myself.

I'm sorry you're inconvenienced.

You do realize that as small as this community actually is, we don't need to join a clan to figure out who plays who, right? Each of us have tells, whether it be a writing style or character descriptions, or roles? I am sure there are a few of you out there, that have been playing together for years now and immediately pick each other out.

I'm not in the discord, and now I'm not going to be in any clan GDBs after my current character. People talk on the discord, let things slip, and people figure things out without needing the GDB clan forums. I don't think enforcing this is a good change, because the majority of your player base already don't bother to engage at all except ICly.

Thank you for your feedback.

[Tailong]

It just makes it not worth while for people like me to join in and enjoy interacting on the clan GDBs because I am being forced to do something I do not wish to do. I am perfectly capable of protecting myself.

I'm sorry you're inconvenienced.

You do realize that as small as this community actually is, we don't need to join a clan to figure out who plays who, right? Each of us have tells, whether it be a writing style or character descriptions, or roles? I am sure there are a few of you out there, that have been playing together for years now and immediately pick each other out.

I'm not in the discord, and now I'm not going to be in any clan GDBs after my current character. People talk on the discord, let things slip, and people figure things out without needing the GDB clan forums. I don't think enforcing this is a good change, because the majority of your player base already don't bother to engage at all except ICly.

Thank you for your feedback.

I'd rather you not comment if you are not going to be constructive to the issue at hand. This was rude, and condescending to your player's opinions. Way to go.

[LidlessEye]

1. Nobody who OOCly conspires needs to do so via the GDB. They'd be stupid to, in fact. They're just gonna have cozy Discord groups that are far more suitable for this kind of thing

2. This is extremely tedious and is just going to have people not bother with clan GDB's at all

3. I am deeply, deeply sceptical of the stated reason for this change and am genuinely unimpressed of some second-order effects this change will no doubt have.

Patuk said exactly what I wanted to say.

[Patuk]

3. Tell me more?

I asked a mod if I should. They told me I probably shouldn't. So it goes. You're welcome to reach out in other venues if you want to talk things out.

[Kavrick]

I'm very 50/50 on this, one one hand, I have actually been targeted oocly just because someone didn't like me. This has varied from noticing an ic character completely changes their attitude towards me once they join a clan forum I was in or on another occassion, someone spreading rumours that my character died from STDs. The latter I know was oocly motivated because this was in a desert elf tribe and the person made their character after I had died and the idea of talking badly about another member of your tribe for no reason is very much against the docs.

But also, it should really be a choice, if this is to protect users. I have an alt account I use pretty much only ever for forum stuff, the idea of making a new account every time sounds a little tedious. And as Patuk said, people who oocly collude and meta-game will always do it. Ooc discussion rules have always been a weird thing in this game, I've played games where ooc is discussion is open but you're not allowed to spread spoilers or meta-game, funnily enough it actually tends to become easier to catch people who metagame in those situations because people just find out and report it.

[LidlessEye]

1. Nobody who OOCly conspires needs to do so via the GDB. They'd be stupid to, in fact. They're just gonna have cozy Discord groups that are far more suitable for this kind of thing

2. This is extremely tedious and is just going to have people not bother with clan GDB's at all

3. I am deeply, deeply sceptical of the stated reason for this change and am genuinely unimpressed of some second-order effects this change will no doubt have.

1. This isn't to limit or change how people break the rules. It's to protect the players who would be targeted by rulebreakers.

2. Sorry.

3. Tell me more?

To answer to Valkryja

1) Players who don't want to be contacted, or care to be anonymous, already do and have clan alts, so forgive me if I'm a touch skeptical of the reasoning.

2) How long is it going to take to approve a new gdb account? And how much longer to add said gdb account to the respective forum? Especially now, given the increased numbers of players?

3) No comment I do not know what was implied here.

[altaccount]

2) How long is it going to take to approve a new gdb account? And how much longer to add said gdb account to the respective forum? Especially now, given the increased numbers of players?

It took me 5-10 min to get squared away. I made a new account and added that to the clan forum request. If it hadn't been approved prior I would assume it would've been approved before being added to clan.

[eska]

1. This isn't to limit or change how people break the rules. It's to protect the players who would be targeted by rulebreakers.

I understand that there are players who would be targeted by rulebreakers. Instead of making the player who would feel targeted to be able use different GDB handles whenever they want, you force everyone to use a new GDB handle to keep the anonymity in clan boards. That's a very bright move and decision to keep people away from clan boards.
What will you do next time, force every player to join the clan boards, if they want to continue playing in the clan?

[altaccount]

I have a somewhat different perspective on why I like this change.

I've been playing the game for 20 years. Through interactions here, on IRC, AIM, and now on Discord.. there are absolutely 10000000000000% players that I've developed a serious distaste for. I'm not interested in targeting them or whatever the fuck else, but it has definitely colored the way that I can perceive or interact with PCs on a number of levels. It isn't intentional and it's something that I'd rather not deal with, but it's there and it happens and it sucks for everyone involved when I have this nagging feeling that seeps into game play.

So.. great. Anonymize fellow players. I honestly love it and I love the idea of my biases being put aside to create a better experience for myself and the players around me.

I know for certain that I'm not the only person that experiences this sort of issue.

[eska]

On the other hand, I don't care about who's playing who and who thinks what about me. I'm just enjoying my own game. Looks like there are people feeling like me as well.

[Inky]

Personally I wish this rule was already in effect and that I didn't make the mistake of using an old accounts in one of my clans already.

[Markku]

Hi. 

A month and a half ago, I would have been one of the players arguing against this change.  I loved the community much more than the game at this stage in my life, and some of my best buds in this community came from meeting on clan boards.

and

My only "bad" experiences on staff over the last month were watching Usiku and Halaster responding to players where were being targeted by others in ways that we can't track or verify the source of.  Going off guesses and assumptions without verification could very well lead to the wrong people being banned.


tldr:
A. I hate this policy, and
B. I believe this is absolutely the right decision.

[Kismetic]

I'm not too fussed about it, but does this mean I need to change now?  Cat's already out of the bag, for me.  I haven't used this handle for maybe ten plus years as a GDB clan handle, thought it would be fine.

[Gaare]

Common sense is never common. There are a lot of rules we obey in everything we play/do. This is not a big deal at all. It's a very small thing.

I'd gladly change it, if it would increase even one of fellow players gaming experience.

PS. There has always been players use different GDB names. I thought doing it many times, but I was just lazy.

[Usiku]

I would be far more comfortable if I had come along and read an announcement that there had been bans, which is the only proper action if a community has such a person in it...I really encourage staff to rethink their approach. If someone is sending inappropriate messages to people, it's not the job of any game's staff to try to accommodate or therapize that person.

You say that like we know who these people are. Trust me, if we knew, I wouldn't hesitate to ban them, and the moment we find out, they will be banned.

But it's not just about that extreme. It's about the variety of consequences that arise when players know who's playing who. That is demonstrated by the plenty of people are thankful and appreciative for this change just because of how it impacts their day to day play, and we're trialing it to see how it goes. If it turns out to be a disaster, we'll adjust. But somewhere along the way, it became increasingly common for people to stop bothering with alts, whereas it used to be the standard, if not enforced, approach.