Camping Ideas

[LindseyBalboa]

Camping is pretty sweet. I think it would be fun to expand it a bit and allow some different types of camps or camp features. Examples:

make camp fortify (direction) - includes a barricade facing a direction

make camp camouflage - gives a hide bonus? or makes pcs sitting around the camp not visible from other rooms?

make camp hunting - gives a bonus to cooking, skinning

Any other ideas?

[Dresan]

I agree camping is fantastic skill. I shared some ideas on this thread and they still hold true.

I think the only thing I would add is I would love to see a subclass give master level camping. And I do now wish outdoorsman had at least advance level camping as well.

However, the outdoorsman subclass powerful in its current form and would probably have to lose Archery to allow a different skill. However, considering there are three other subclasses that offer Archery, one at master too, and most options have better alternatives for ranged fighting it shouldn't be a huge loss to anyone . That said, updating subclasses is rare and staff don't seem to have appetite to do so at the moment.   

[dumbstruck]

I agree camping is fantastic skill. I shared some ideas on this thread and they still hold true.

I think the only thing I would add is I would love to see a subclass give master level camping. And I do now wish outdoorsman had at least advance level camping as well.

However, the outdoorsman subclass powerful in its current form and would probably have to lose Archery to allow a different skill. However, considering there are three other subclasses that offer Archery, one at master too, and most options have better alternatives for ranged fighting it shouldn't be a huge loss to anyone . That said, updating subclasses is rare and staff don't seem to have appetite to do so at the moment.   

I'd agree on seeing Outdoorsman getting camp and not minding it losing Archery to get it. Not all outdoorsy people can shoot but all outdoorsy people ought to be able to make a camp.

[Dusty Boots]

I'd agree on seeing Outdoorsman getting camp and not minding it losing Archery to get it. Not all outdoorsy people can shoot but all outdoorsy people ought to be able to make a camp.

Honestly if outdoorsman gets camp, it needs to lose something of equal value. Archery really isn't that good of a skill on any class because a lot of classes that would take outdoorsman already have archery. Outdoorsman has a bit of an issue of being a rather bloated subguild, giving both master scan, skinning, wilderness quit, wilderness stealth and food forage. I'd rather it lose something like wilderness stealth to remove it from being a target of omnistealth for criminal classes.

[dumbstruck]

I'd rather not see it lose wilderness stealth though I could see it losing both skinning and shooting.

[Dresan]

I'd rather it lose something like wilderness stealth to remove it from being a target of omnistealth for criminal classes.

The same could be said about rogue, thief, and slipknife for wilderness classes. Outdoorsman and mountaineer are the only two classes that give subclass level sneak and hide, with the rest only giving one or the other. Since its a stealth class the only thing that doesn't make sense is actually archery. Archery is still an offensive skill, and replacing it with camp would be a decent downgrade. Max. Scan sounds great on paper, but you milage will vary greatly with this skill, even with high elven wisdom.

[Dusty Boots]

The same could be said about rogue, thief, and slipknife for wilderness classes. Outdoorsman and mountaineer are the only two classes that give subclass level sneak and hide, with the rest only giving one or the other. Since its a stealth class the only thing that doesn't make sense is actually archery. Archery is still an offensive skill, and replacing it with camp would be a decent downgrade.

Criminal classes get more from wilderness stealth than wilderness classes get from city stealth. Not only is city stealth really just not useful if you're not playing a criminal, it's more of a convenience if anything, but also criminal classes just have far more stealth mechanics like peek, slight of hand, steal, backstab, sap.

[Dresan]

Criminal classes get more from wilderness stealth than wilderness classes get from city stealth. Not only is city stealth really just not useful if you're not playing a criminal, it's more of a convenience if anything, but also criminal classes just have far more stealth mechanics like peek, slight of hand, steal, backstab, sap.

The criminal subclasses are pretty strong...low master backstab. Master steal? I really disagree with you.  Most enforcers can't even branch backstab, while raiders can get it at low master day one with better stealth.

[Dusty Boots]

The criminal subclasses are pretty strong...low master backstab. Master steal? mmm. I really disagree with you.  Most enforcers can't even branch backstab, while raiders can get it at low master day one with better stealth.

"Raiders can get get low master day one." I don't think the game should be balanced around powergamers. Also sure raider/slipknife is a good example in this completely isolated case, but why you would pick the combat class which is good at outside mounted combat just to get backstab and not cover the other weaknesses that raider has would be beyond me. I'm fairly sure raider/master chef is a top picked combination for a reason.

[Dresan]

Stuff

Thief and rogue are both excellent and extremely viable options too so no slipknife is not an isolated case. Not sure why you think wilderness stealth holds more value than city stealth but we are just going to have to disagree here.

[LindseyBalboa]

What kinda stuff do you think enforcers and slipknives would get out of making camps?

'camp extortion - helps threaten'

?

[AdamBlue]

What kinda stuff do you think enforcers and slipknives would get out of making camps?

'camp extortion - helps threaten'

?

Put some skulls on pikes, torches made out of dwarf-fat and a mekillot skull as the fire pit in the center, I'd certainly feel pretty threatened.

[Dresan]

If camp gave a wilderness stealth environmental bonus, it would be concerning to stumble upon any camp.

I just noticed outdoorsman doesn't give ride and for some reason I was under the impression it did. If archery were removed, outdoorsman could probably fit in low master camping.

In comparison to say bandit which gives master hide and master ride, and charge, outdoorsman does seem a bit less strong now, even more so if archery were to disappear. If I remember correctly, from the riding update decades ago, ride at higher levels also gives a combat bonus(think to offense?) based on size. But my memory might be fuzzy on that one and while it does seem harder to fight people mounted when you are not but that might be my own experiences and not reflected in the code.

[Veselka]

For me, camping would need more juice to the squeeze before talking about adding/removing skills from subclasses for it. As it stands, it's pretty functional but basic.

Would love to see it build off barricades, ability to forage (changing forage tables), and be the 'basic structure' for building wilderness communities (or even communities within a city, say the Labyrinth, etc).

It'd be cool if it built off the SimRaider concept, where it allowed you to craft a camp 'center'. The camp center could be a few different items, all varying difficulty and cost/materials. Most basic could be a campfire, most complex could be a lockbox.

Each type of object needs to be fed X item, to maintain its major function. Campfire would just provide a wilderness quit room, other objects might provide longer hunger/thirst bonuses or increased skill gains or something like that. Other objects would allow the building of barricades (maybe quicker or with fewer materials), and have different radiuses that they allow -- campfire, 1, chest, up to 1 room away (cross), lockbox, up to 2 rooms away (larger cross with a diagonal 1 from the center room), etc.

People who aren't the 'camper' could donate materials to the central object.

The camp is destroyed in a similar fashion to SimRaider -- You pull out all the objects/destroy the central 'flag' object, and it is ruined. Barricades decay quicker, other objects in camp, etc.

[roughneck]

Would love to see it build off barricades, ability to forage (changing forage tables), and be the 'basic structure' for building wilderness communities (or even communities within a city, say the Labyrinth, etc).

A city equivalent would be cool for roof-tops, labyrinth, and more secluded parts of the city. Fuck paying rent!

[Tuannon]

A barricade skill for when the Listless go rogue.

[Agent_137]

While we're wishing for stuff, how about just replacing wilderness quit with camp.  If you don't want it to be OP on outdoorsman just cap it low. Kinda silly to have both. Wilderness quit is already described as making a camp ICly.

Of course quit is instant and leaves no trace. Are we keeping it for those benefits? Using it to evade someone hunting you seems cheesy and borderline rule breaking. But if I'm told it's the intent then cool.

[Dresan]

There are a lot of mechanics in the game which challenge the players with downtime due to inability to function properly. Some example of these mechanics include weather, night and exhaustion. Of course there are mechanics to get around that, such as direction sense, torches and now camping with exhaustion.

In a world where time is valuable, skills and features that address downtime mechanics are invaluable.

On a side note, I am not sure what the original intent for darkness on top of storms were, even if you are in town. Perhaps it is encouragement for people to gather in tavern, but if that is not possible, it usually it means people take a break and go do something for 20 or so minutes. It also makes taking the time to set up a campfire sometimes useless too. If camping could be used to counter those mechanics it would likely add a lot to roleplay and enjoyment. 

[Veselka]

While we're wishing for stuff, how about just replacing wilderness quit with camp.  If you don't want it to be OP on outdoorsman just cap it low. Kinda silly to have both. Wilderness quit is already described as making a camp ICly.

Of course quit is instant and leaves no trace. Are we keeping it for those benefits? Using it to evade someone hunting you seems cheesy and borderline rule breaking. But if I'm told it's the intent then cool.

I tend to agree -- Maybe the 'Survivalist' middle section of classes (Miscreant, Stalker...Laborer?) should get camp, or scout/stalker I dunno, as a class skill.

If people are in a bind/pinch as Dresan describes they can use Quit OOC.

The reason I kind of like it is it pushes 'Ranger Types' to pack materials with them if they are planning on long-hauling out in the wilderness, or know of spots they can forage up materials they need. As it stands, wilderness quit is far more utilitarian and functional than not-wilderness-quit (having to quit in a quit room), and there's no city class equivalent.

It'd be cool to see Camping be more of a general 'blanket' craft, where other crafts split from, like 'Base Building', 'Base Repair', 'Barricades', and 'Trapping'. Hell, throw 'Tentmaking' in there as well under the blanket.

Camping -- Allows you to make an area quit safe, whether in the wilderness or civilization. Crafts include things like cook fire, cooking stove, camping gear/cutlery/tools, and so on. As well, it allows you (at advanced/master) to craft the previously described semi-permanent 'Camp Objects' -- bonfire, camp chest, and lockbox.

Base Building -- Branches from Camping. Ability to craft (with expensive / different materials) a basic 'Plot' structure. You work out with Staff via request what stock hut/yurt/tent/structure you want built there (short of being able to do it with code).

Base Repair -- Branches from Camping. You repair buildings/barricades that deteriorate over time with in kind materials.

Barricades -- Branches from Camping. You build barricades and upgrade them.

Trapping -- Branches from Camping. (Or maybe from Hunt?) These could be tripwires or deadfalls, or hunting traps as well. Snares, box traps, things that help catch small to medium sized game. I could see that being a really fun sort of way of hunting, as opposed to archery/melee.

[LindseyBalboa]

While we're wishing for stuff, how about just replacing wilderness quit with camp.  If you don't want it to be OP on outdoorsman just cap it low. Kinda silly to have both. Wilderness quit is already described as making a camp ICly.

Of course quit is instant and leaves no trace. Are we keeping it for those benefits? Using it to evade someone hunting you seems cheesy and borderline rule breaking. But if I'm told it's the intent then cool.

the camping skill is more-or-less what quit wilderness should always have been imo.

i quit ooc constantly and really never have a problem using quit ooc.

i'd be more than happy to remove quit wild and replace it fully with camping.

Would love to see it build off barricades, ability to forage (changing forage tables), and be the 'basic structure' for building wilderness communities (or even communities within a city, say the Labyrinth, etc).

A city equivalent would be cool for roof-tops, labyrinth, and more secluded parts of the city. Fuck paying rent!

A barricade skill for when the Listless go rogue.

hell yeah to all this! especially city use. those barricades go up in the rinth and you just KNOW the collegia gangs are planning something

While we're wishing for stuff, how about just replacing wilderness quit with camp.  If you don't want it to be OP on outdoorsman just cap it low. Kinda silly to have both. Wilderness quit is already described as making a camp ICly.

Of course quit is instant and leaves no trace. Are we keeping it for those benefits? Using it to evade someone hunting you seems cheesy and borderline rule breaking. But if I'm told it's the intent then cool.

I tend to agree -- Maybe the 'Survivalist' middle section of classes (Miscreant, Stalker...Laborer?) should get camp, or scout/stalker I dunno, as a class skill.

If people are in a bind/pinch as Dresan describes they can use Quit OOC.

The reason I kind of like it is it pushes 'Ranger Types' to pack materials with them if they are planning on long-hauling out in the wilderness, or know of spots they can forage up materials they need. As it stands, wilderness quit is far more utilitarian and functional than not-wilderness-quit (having to quit in a quit room), and there's no city class equivalent.

It'd be cool to see Camping be more of a general 'blanket' craft, where other crafts split from, like 'Base Building', 'Base Repair', 'Barricades', and 'Trapping'. Hell, throw 'Tentmaking' in there as well under the blanket.

Camping -- Allows you to make an area quit safe, whether in the wilderness or civilization. Crafts include things like cook fire, cooking stove, camping gear/cutlery/tools, and so on. As well, it allows you (at advanced/master) to craft the previously described semi-permanent 'Camp Objects' -- bonfire, camp chest, and lockbox.

Base Building -- Branches from Camping. Ability to craft (with expensive / different materials) a basic 'Plot' structure. You work out with Staff via request what stock hut/yurt/tent/structure you want built there (short of being able to do it with code).

Base Repair -- Branches from Camping. You repair buildings/barricades that deteriorate over time with in kind materials.

Barricades -- Branches from Camping. You build barricades and upgrade them.

Trapping -- Branches from Camping. (Or maybe from Hunt?) These could be tripwires or deadfalls, or hunting traps as well. Snares, box traps, things that help catch small to medium sized game. I could see that being a really fun sort of way of hunting, as opposed to archery/melee.

i like the idea of being able to do more with camping. sans revamp of the skill the addition of 'camp trapping' sounds really useful. could be a % chance of catching local animals in snares while you're hanging out?

[Dresan]

All a camping trapping skill would have to do is knock people off their mounts and lag them for a short time. It would also work on medium sized NPC animals, making them fall on the ground and lagging them for a short period.

The success/failure would be based on (agility score + riding skill) of victim vs (camp trapping skill + wisdom score).

The trap would only work once, on the first person that rides in and require the person who set the trap to be in the room, else it would disassemble with an IC hour or less, if they leave.

The person setting the trap would be immune to their own traps, they would not trigger it, allowing them to lead people through it.

Scan + wisdom (in comparison to the trapping skill + wisdom) would allow people to see the traps from afar, at which point they can avoid it or get off their mount and walk into the room before  easily disarming the trap and/or dealing with the hidden raider.

Alternatively, this could be its very own skill, wilderness trapping and have nothing to do with camp skill at all. However, the mere existence of this skill would Likely have a positive effect in regards to people moving so fast during travel that you hardly have time to look at them.