SEASONS FEEDBACK: When will the game close?

[MarshallDFX]

I'm creating a topic for each area of feedback that Usiku posted.  Please don't turn them all into "seasons is trash", that can go in the "how do we feel about seasons" thread.

Usiku asked:

The game is not closing on January 1st. The announcement above does not give a date for closure, this is because it is undecided. I believe that January is circulating because of something Halaster said, unfortunately I'm going to throw him under the bus a little and say that we had not agreed on that and it shouldn't have been said (sorry, Hal, love you).

We want your input on how long you need for your plots to reach a good point so that can inform when we can close the game.

So, what do people think? Rip the bandaid off?

[Boggis]

From what I can see the knee-jerk reaction has been a 50% reduction in player count logged in. I've left my PC logged in and checked Who periodically across the day and it consistently seems to be roughly 50% less than what I'd been seeing over the past few months. For me, those numbers aren't workable with the 2 major population centres that we have + other clans. If the dust settles and this is now the norm I'd seriously consider just closing and getting on with Seasons as I can't see plots really being able to progress.

[whengravityfails]

No, don't rip the band aid off. The longer it takes, the better.

[papertiger]

I've still been able to rp in my limited availability and would be disappointed if they decided the current plots didn't need some resolution before just not bothering and closing it all down. There are big things happening, at least where I am. If they closed the game just to "get it over with" it would send a very firm message if it were done. "Its over"

[CirclelessBard]

The staff should close the game when player plotlines have either been sufficiently resolved, or there has been some sort of gesture of recompense made to players who are getting cut short.

The fact of the matter is that so many systems in this game rely on long-term commitment. Characters that were working with the MMH system or the PC business system, playing sponsored roles in long-term plotlines, and similar time-locked advancement systems, are being asked to grin and bear it more than most people, because they committed to a staff-set timetable only to have that yanked out from underneath them. As a player whose character is on such a staff-set timetable, I realize that there is no such thing as a reasonable conclusion to it that also puts the game's closure at a reasonable date. I want what is best for the game (moving on to the seasonal model ASAP) but I also want acknowledgement for players like myself and others that were attracted to these super-long-term roles only to be told nevermind.

One thing I will note again though is that the game does need to close. It can't exist in a half-supported state. Given that so much abuse went unnoticed earlier this year when staff were all here to witness it, I think it is safe to say that if the game is just left open for people to mess around in, it will eventually become an embarrassment at best and a legal liability at worst.

[Dracul]

Already?

I hated the 3 week early window (possibility back tracked, but until then January was mentioned).

Although at this point the game is over.

There is a wrap up period where your plots might be able to affect the storyline. Maybe. My character is actually in an apprrove plot that is lasting through the game. A plot that (understandably) had a slow burn and the characters need to keep it secret. If the game didn't end now, eventually they would have been revealed and involved more characters.

I'm still playing, but the game feels like it is over, and we are now in a limbo 'wrap up chapter'. It sucks.

My characters goal was survival. I guess he gets to win?

[FantasyWriter]

Indifferent. I am still logging in to support the other players I am involved with when needed, but the wind is gone from my sails, otherwise. There are still a lot of plots I know of circulating around, I don't know how many will be wrapped up and how many will be left to die on the roadside.

If Season 1 were ready to start, sure rip the bandaid off. Since it is not, and there will be a gap between this game and the next, it doesn't matter to me personally any more. I am divided between ripping the bandaid off so staff can start working on season 1 and letting the game continue until people decide to stop logging in all together. I don't think anyone (players, not characters, obviously) is really excited about continuing on with their characters, knowing there is a brick wall down the road that you will crash into eventually.

[mansa]

A lot of the plots I was running depended 100% upon other players to help accomplish.  The plots I designed were stuff that my character wasn't capable of completing themselves - forcing a reliance on other characters knowledge and abilities.

What really suffers in my plots is that those missing pieces in my plotline could be resolved with staff intervention, staff providing the answers via NPC or vNPC, and then helping move the plot along that way - but often it gets suggested "we can help you resolve this once another character fills this open role request."


The other thing about the plotlines that I like to run, is that they are typically setting up a structure within the gameworld that other players can interact with at a later date, and bring about a new cool story to some area of the game that was rather forgotten about.   
ex - building a warehouse and a rentable shop in the Gan Zein market in the Labyrinth.   
ex - trying to create a player-clan for city elves in Morin's Village, so new city elves that start in the north can have a background tribe that exists.

My characters may enjoy it for a bit, but the overall goal is to have some reusable section for future characters to interact with, rather than leaving it completely empty and bare.



That is to say, I set myself long-term goals that aren't necessarily about my individual character's success, but about changing the world-at-large to be what I consider better.  To find an area of the game that is lacking in depth and to fill it with something anyone can interact with going forward.


So, it's hard to say, because my wants are really to "fix" what I consider problematic sections of the gameworld experience so that it becomes more interactable for all.

[Miradus]

"When plots get resolved" is very much like "when this river flowing past runs out of water".

Just gonna halt all new plots? No plotting, people! No plotting!

[Cowboy]

Hardly anyone seems to even be playing anymore. Time to bite the bullet and wipe out the characters.  Then get on with whatever you need to do to get things going again.  The quicker we get to it, the quicker we'll all get a look at the new Armageddon.

[Fredd]

Hardly anyone seems to even be playing anymore. Time to bite the bullet and wipe out the characters.  Then get on with whatever you need to do to get things going again.  The quicker we get to it, the quicker we'll all get a look at the new Armageddon.

Some of us are trying to wrap up plots for closure. We may not have the emotional energy to stay logged on all day while seeing single digit player counts. But we are pushing out plots with those that remain.

And those that aren't are trying to enjoy what time they have left with their characters.

I don't know what the end date will be. but I hope we get at least a month's notice.

[Lizzie]

Hardly anyone seems to even be playing anymore. Time to bite the bullet and wipe out the characters.  Then get on with whatever you need to do to get things going again.  The quicker we get to it, the quicker we'll all get a look at the new Armageddon.

Some of us are trying to wrap up plots for closure. We may not have the emotional energy to stay logged on all day while seeing single digit player counts. But we are pushing out plots with those that remain.

And those that aren't are trying to enjoy what time they have left with their characters.

I don't know what the end date will be. but I hope we get at least a month's notice.

Some of us are also understanding that - whatever plotlines we DO close on in the game now, might have a profound effect on the first "seasonal" opening. And so we're doing what we can to make sure that the next season has some continuity. People complain about not being able to leave their mark. And then they stop playing. Well - you won't leave your mark then. I for one hope to leave mine.

[Fredd]

Hardly anyone seems to even be playing anymore. Time to bite the bullet and wipe out the characters.  Then get on with whatever you need to do to get things going again.  The quicker we get to it, the quicker we'll all get a look at the new Armageddon.

Some of us are trying to wrap up plots for closure. We may not have the emotional energy to stay logged on all day while seeing single digit player counts. But we are pushing out plots with those that remain.

And those that aren't are trying to enjoy what time they have left with their characters.

I don't know what the end date will be. but I hope we get at least a month's notice.

Some of us are also understanding that - whatever plotlines we DO close on in the game now, might have a profound effect on the first "seasonal" opening. And so we're doing what we can to make sure that the next season has some continuity. People complain about not being able to leave their mark. And then they stop playing. Well - you won't leave your mark then. I for one hope to leave mine.

That's what I'm doing. I'm pushing changes I want to be present in my game area when a season opens that includes it. I have a couple of things that i can pull in players to help with that will last until the end.

That being said. If Staff wanted to go ahead and pick a date at least a month out. I wouldn't be upset. It'de be good to plan around.

[7dwarves]

So we're adopting Haven's model now?

[Cowboy]

Plotlines?  How is that going for you all?  How much longer will you need for these plots?  I am trying to wrap my head why the majority of players are expected to sit and wait for, a few, a couple of, or even ten players (who knows the number), while these plots are completed?  Few people are even trying to play.  What are these plots generally?
Do you want a street named after your character?  Are you trying to get a warehouse? Is there some individual you want to ruin or kill?   A special weapon or a recipe?  Tongue in cheek maybe but why can't you move on?  It's over as we know it.  The plot finishes seem to be the main holdup to moving on.  I believe that the longer this "walking dead" version of Armageddon persists, we will only chase more and more players away permanently.

[CirclelessBard]

Even if Armageddon closed today, I think we'd still be looking at season one starting in the spring if only because I can't imagine that much work getting done on season prep in the next few weeks. There are holidays to consider, as well as the fact that staff need time to plan what they're doing. Measure twice, cut once and all that.

It's rough looking at the current player count, and admittedly a bit demoralizing, but I log in purely to make my character available for those that are still hanging in there looking for RP opportunities. I guess if the game closed early and staff started work immediately on season one prep I wouldn't be too broken up about it, but at the same time I don't see progress to season one happening any faster if the game closed now vs. if the game closed a month from now.

[papertiger]

Plotlines?  How is that going for you all?  How much longer will you need for these plots?  I am trying to wrap my head why the majority of players are expected to sit and wait for, a few, a couple of, or even ten players (who knows the number), while these plots are completed?  Few people are even trying to play.  What are these plots generally?
Do you want a street named after your character?  Are you trying to get a warehouse? Is there some individual you want to ruin or kill?   A special weapon or a recipe?  Tongue in cheek maybe but why can't you move on?  It's over as we know it.  The plot finishes seem to be the main holdup to moving on.  I believe that the longer this "walking dead" version of Armageddon persists, we will only chase more and more players away permanently.

They mentioned they might update the role calls page to help us get involved in ending plots. I'm really hoping for that. They've said they're still trying to get through a backup of requests atm to figure out which plots are going on and can use wrapping up. They also have to set a timeline for closing.

I'd prefer to get involved in areas I know are supported by PC leaders running wrap up plots and by admins supporting them. I personally haven't been logging in due to the school term ending and 9 billion holiday parties, but I know some have decided to just throw in the towel now.

There is something I would like to influence for the season's opening but I don't know how these things are done. Admittedly I plan to ride on more experienced players coat tails here, but it would be fun to be able to say - yeah I helped with that (even if in a very minor way). I think that opportunity is cool.

[Usiku]

There's still roughly 40+ people logging into the game on a daily basis, if not more. It had been crossing my mind to consider closing it early considering we are currently peaking at 14-15 but I went to do a count and that's still a lot of players, just most of you are only logging on for a few minutes, I assume seeing the low who count and missing each other. There's some really wonderful plots and ideas out there from players that I want to see supported in the run up to Seasons but I also want to hear from the players who are running them and trying.. if you are not enjoying it, struggling to find play and movement and would rather we wrap early then please let us know. We will look at your ideas and progress and direction so far to determine future impact. We appreciate you being here and trying to see it through though.

[Windstorm]

I log in, play, and get meaningful interaction on a daily basis. This is despite me being in a busy season for my work and not entirely able to pay attention how I'd like.

Under no circumstances do I want or would I think it was fair to those of us still committed to the game and our stories to have to yield to the cries of people who are not just because they want everyone to follow suit and "quit" like they have.

Frankly, people who have not been playing and are not playing have forfeited their place in having an opinion on that. They can do something else and I'll happily see them in Season 1. They are not forced  to play. It's not their business anymore and they are the ones who have made that choice.

[Usiku]

Ok, that's encouraging, thank you!

[slipshod]

From: This Announcement
"Staff have been talking about a date for when the game will close for work on Seasons, I've been talking with a number of players directly, and we've taken the collective feedback from the GDB."

What was the criteria for a player to be included in these direct talks?  I ask because I would have liked to have been included.

[Fredd]

From: This Announcement
"Staff have been talking about a date for when the game will close for work on Seasons, I've been talking with a number of players directly, and we've taken the collective feedback from the GDB."

What was the criteria for a player to be included in these direct talks?  I ask because I would have liked to have been included.

Likely the Discord. I don't touch it personally. Every time I do, something bad happens.

That being said, the date is fine. Close enough to plan for, far enough that we can finish up our plots and go explore weird places we never saw before.

[betweenford]

I log in, play, and get meaningful interaction on a daily basis. This is despite me being in a busy season for my work and not entirely able to pay attention how I'd like.

Under no circumstances do I want or would I think it was fair to those of us still committed to the game and our stories to have to yield to the cries of people who are not just because they want everyone to follow suit and "quit" like they have.

Frankly, people who have not been playing and are not playing have forfeited their place in having an opinion on that. They can do something else and I'll happily see them in Season 1. They are not forced  to play. It's not their business anymore and they are the ones who have made that choice.

Is it fair to those of us who no longer want to play the game to have our characters and stories yield to people who think our opinions should be discarded? lol.

If you say that you personally have been able to find characters you know and interaction, that's fine, but it's not indicative of the whole game nor the community experience. Practically nobody is playing in my play sphere anymore after this change, and as a wilderness antagonist I can't find anybody. The server has three-to-five people online when I look, I have 10+ outstanding requests, and my character nor play area will have no influence on the upcoming season due to clan and location outside of potentially killing people who are able to create interesting stories for the upcoming season.

I'd been committed to my story playing out with or without staff support prior to the announcement, and after the announcement my clan staff have been relatively quiet, openly stated they wouldn't be playing during Seasons, and been even more sporadic with being on port; despite the month already halfway being through and player numbers at an all time low I haven't seen anymore interest in my character plot nor staff support, this is just bleak. In a quarter of month, what's been done for me? My opinion has been discarded by staff, my plots remain on radio silence, and the game's been historically empty?

[Usiku]

Ford, you only have requests in about bugs or questions about small coded issues/mechanics. If you want some support for your plots and story then you need to submit a request about them specifically to open up that discussion. Even if you don't want to play right now, we'd still be happy to take a look and see how your PC's actions may have affected the world. Areas your PC frequents will still be a part of the world and accessible even if they aren't in the focus area for the first season.

[betweenford]

Ford, you only have requests in about bugs or questions about small coded issues/mechanics. If you want some support for your plots and story then you need to submit a request about them specifically to open up that discussion. Even if you don't want to play right now, we'd still be happy to take a look and see how your PC's actions may have affected the world. Areas your PC frequents will still be a part of the world and accessible even if they aren't in the focus area for the first season.

https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php?msg=1101617
My actual plot specific requests were closed out prior to the announcement. I have reached out to my clan staff. There has been no post-announcement response.

There's a sort of implication there with the first sentence that I haven't done anything to further my plots. I have received radio silence for two weeks.