Seasons Q&A

[kahuna]

Yeah.

Suggestion: leave the game running while staff gets ready for the first season. Cancel all staff support that goes beyond approving characters.

95% of the game is perfectly playable and fun without staff support. We'll be fine. Sponsored roles will take a hit, but even most leadership roles can keep running for quite a while without ever interacting with staff. It's how offpeak arm works half the time, and I promise that we're not all constantly having a bad experience. If someone really does not want to play staff-less arm, they can take a break, but the rest of us won't be forced into it - you'd simply leave that decision up to the players instead of making that decision for them.

I think this would help retain players, instead of shutting down for months on end and hoping that at least some of us come back at some unspecified point in the future.

stuff

I would made a character tonight.

[Fredd]

Yeah.

Suggestion: leave the game running while staff gets ready for the first season. Cancel all staff support that goes beyond approving characters.

95% of the game is perfectly playable and fun without staff support. We'll be fine. Sponsored roles will take a hit, but even most leadership roles can keep running for quite a while without ever interacting with staff. It's how offpeak arm works half the time, and I promise that we're not all constantly having a bad experience. If someone really does not want to play staff-less arm, they can take a break, but the rest of us won't be forced into it - you'd simply leave that decision up to the players instead of making that decision for them.

I think this would help retain players, instead of shutting down for months on end and hoping that at least some of us come back at some unspecified point in the future.

What about:

- A crash happens, you lose your stuff.  There's no reimbursement forthcoming.

- Some obscure bug comes up and we get in a crash loop.  There's no help coming, it's stuck like that for a while potentially, becoming unplayable.  Or data corruption.  Or a server issue.

- Someone acting in bad faith knows staff aren't watching and starts doing some shitty stuff.  Complaints will go unanswered, and that person will get away with it, bringing harm to others potentially.

- GMH folks don't get things loaded for them that they need.

- Wishes go unanswered.

- Murder hobos go on killing sprees, you're out of luck.

- You die to a code bug.  There is no resurrection forthcoming.

- No clan form joining, leaving.

- No special apps, no advanced starts.


Would all of those things happen?  Probably not, but I think there's a lot more to it than is obvious.  I don't mean to poop on your parade, but I just think most people don't realize all the things that require staff attention to keep this old girl running as smoothly as we're able.

On top of that, staff have pride in their work and their game.  It'd be very hard not to step in knowing that something has gone wrong.

It's just too much of a distraction, and would lengthen the time it takes to get the Seasons project up and running.

Some of that makes sense, some of that I scratch my head at.

I could try to debate this, but I play in Tuluk alot, I can read the subtext in this post.

I hope ya'll enjoy your vacation. But some measure of contact during this time would make those of us a bit scared for the game feel a lot better.

[MarshallDFX]

I have removed posts about murderhobo'ing. It's a worthy topic just not in this thread, and please don't call out individuals or effectively make a public staff complaint

[FamousAmos]

Why is staff pushing this so hard?

Because they're looking down the road and can see the writing on the wall with a slowly declining playerbase that's split across 2 major population centres. We can all argue about the details of the decision and how it was delivered, etc. but they clearly believe looking at the data that something has to be done soon to keep this game alive long-term. I'd completely agree with that assessment.

Its one thing to anticipate on what's to come, but why only inform part of your staffing committee before announcing the change?

Since this Q wasn't A yet.

[Fredd]

Why is staff pushing this so hard?

Because they're looking down the road and can see the writing on the wall with a slowly declining playerbase that's split across 2 major population centres. We can all argue about the details of the decision and how it was delivered, etc. but they clearly believe looking at the data that something has to be done soon to keep this game alive long-term. I'd completely agree with that assessment.

Its one thing to anticipate on what's to come, but why only inform part of your staffing committee before announcing the change?

Since this Q wasn't A yet.

They havent said it in plain text. But i've been looking between the lines and I got an educated guess.

The north has had like 8 ST's in 4 months. They show up, answer a singular report, and are gone the next week. But they haven't exactly been doing that many staffing RC's... Why?

They aren't getting enough staff apps to maintain the turnover. And not enough staff to maintain the game.
Reducing the game to 25% of it's size lets them use their core staff to handle everything, and rotate new ones through. the new staff organization chart helps prove this, as it was made to lower the amount of staff needed to handle the whole game.

This next part is pure speculation based on the evidence at hand. But the evidence seems strong:

This all points to a toxic environment for staff, made by other staff. When I see a new ST come in happy and strong-willed but be gone in a rl week with almost no interaction with payers... Well, that screams something pretty loudly there. Do this 4-5 times, and you have enough screaming to make a metal album.

Maybe this is going to be used to politely remove said toxic parts? Let's hope so. Because that toxic environment would be the real poison that's killing arm.

edit: Who the toxic one/ones would be I have no idea. All the current remaining staff have been 100% cool to me. Enth has always been level with me, I love Kat, and I don't think I've done much with Usi. Also, i have no idea who staffs the south. Just wanted to add this part so mods don't think i'm subtly pointing at someone here. I got no inside info, i don't talk to ya'll for the most part. This is just very obvious evidence I'm discussing here.

[betweenford]

Why is staff pushing this so hard?

Because they're looking down the road and can see the writing on the wall with a slowly declining playerbase that's split across 2 major population centres. We can all argue about the details of the decision and how it was delivered, etc. but they clearly believe looking at the data that something has to be done soon to keep this game alive long-term. I'd completely agree with that assessment.

Its one thing to anticipate on what's to come, but why only inform part of your staffing committee before announcing the change?

Since this Q wasn't A yet.

-snip-

It points to a toxic or unmaintainable culture in the northern staffing team.

Whether it's staff-staff, staff-player, leader-staff remains to be seen but judging by how many northern staff have joined and then quit my gut reaction is to say that it's a Staff-Staff problem.

[Fredd]

Why is staff pushing this so hard?

Because they're looking down the road and can see the writing on the wall with a slowly declining playerbase that's split across 2 major population centres. We can all argue about the details of the decision and how it was delivered, etc. but they clearly believe looking at the data that something has to be done soon to keep this game alive long-term. I'd completely agree with that assessment.

Its one thing to anticipate on what's to come, but why only inform part of your staffing committee before announcing the change?

Since this Q wasn't A yet.

-snip-

It points to a toxic or unmaintainable culture in the northern staffing team.

Whether it's staff-staff, staff-player, leader-staff remains to be seen but judging by how many northern staff have joined and then quit my gut reaction is to say that it's a Staff-Staff problem.

Valid point

[Kaathe]

It's not a simple one thing. I've had 5 admins since joining and I've been on Indy the whole time.  It's possible I'm the problem.  It's more likely it's many things

[Boggis]

I would say it's something more simple. New STs come in and they've got some ideas sure. Then they get into the reality of what it means to help run all the clans, they're over-stretched out the gate, there's player complaints and it's just not fun. Then they decide this isn't what I thought it was going to be and you know what I could be doing something better with my time and just quit.

[zilcho]

I've had my temper tantrum and just accepted that this is the end of Arm - for me at least. It's a game where I fell in love with the game and also ended up married to another player. I've been to meetups and invested unbelievable hours into it even with taking huge breaks in between playing.

I doubt any game will ever suck me in the way this one did.

The smartest thing I did was steer clear of the various chat channels and discussion boards and just logged in and played my little low-stakes background characters.

It was super fun to explore and get scared and make friends in taverns.

My regrets:

* I wish I had played a killer at least once but knowing how much it hurts to lose a character I just couldn't do it.
* I wish I had played a thief/'rinthi character but I loved exploring the outdoors too much.

Thanks to everyone for all their effort. I know there's been some really bad things that have gone down and incredible toxicity but I'm just gonna remember the really fun times.

[Riev]

I would say it's something more simple. New STs come in and they've got some ideas sure. Then they get into the reality of what it means to help run all the clans, they're over-stretched out the gate, there's player complaints and it's just not fun. Then they decide this isn't what I thought it was going to be and you know what I could be doing something better with my time and just quit.

Organizational Development would say that if the realities of the position are not communicated up front, that is a fault of the organization. Standard Turnover rates in most organizations look at the 90day mark.

[Fredd]

It's not a simple one thing. I've had 5 admins since joining and I've been on Indy the whole time.  It's possible I'm the problem.  It's more likely it's many things

See I had no idea about this. Damn, that does add a bit more context.

[Patuk]

They aren't getting enough staff apps to maintain the turnover.

Ehh. I've been applying. People I know have been. None of us have been selected. The amount of applications is there; why they keep chasing them off is anyone's guess.

[Boggis]

Organizational Development would say that if the realities of the position are not communicated up front, that is a fault of the organization. Standard Turnover rates in most organizations look at the 90day mark.

I'd say they probably are to some extent. But people will think I'll be alright, it won't get to me. Then they run into the playerbase in all it's glory and, honestly, I don't know if I could stick it. I remember 10+ years ago I was introduced into an OOC channel of players through one of the few players I did know OOC. That was eye opening. I'd always suspected it but the amount of cheating, bitching & whining  and general assholery was incredible. It honestly ruined the game a bit for me knowing who these characters were IC and also knowing what they were getting up to. It wouldn't surprise me if things haven't changed for the better. Having to deal with all that kind of stuff has to be wearying as staff. Then throw on top of that all the largely frivolous complaints to deal with.

I'm sure there's other issues too. I'd bet that all the documentation is kind of a mess as there's never really been time to properly tidy it up and other stuff takes priority. Anyone who's worked for an organization knows what I'm talking about.

And as they're overstretched they're probably in fire fighting mode where people are being asked to help out wherever the current big ticket problem is. Anyone who's worked for an organization where resources are tight knows what I'm talking about.

Then are there intra-staff issues? Quite possible though I'd like to think that the current staff are decent. I've had zero issues with any of my interactions with them.

Throw it all together though and you've got a position that's challenging. A number of people who are volunteering to do something will just quit once reality hits home. Why keep doing something every day that's just not fun?

[Riev]

My point led more towards determining what the biggest issues are leading to high turnover. Which staff did. They said it was the workload.

They didn't say the biggest complaint was players, OOC behaviors, or intra-staff issues. It was the amount of actual work required for the lowest man on the totem pole.

Rather than try to find a way to reduce the workload (initially), staff preferred to give more boons and boosts to new staffers. Playing your character while staffing. Not having to engage in player plots if you don't want to. Doing only the work you WANT to do.

It was a misstep, and there are many players who wanted to help. I have a Masters is Organizational Development and Leadership. I know another player who recently got their Black Belt in Lean/Six Sigma (related to efficiency and team building).

Staff world is so insulated and denigrates players so much that people who want to help are disregarded.

[betweenford]

They aren't getting enough staff apps to maintain the turnover.

Ehh. I've been applying. People I know have been. None of us have been selected. The amount of applications is there; why they keep chasing them off is anyone's guess.

I used to have an interest in being a builder despite the supposed mundaneity of the role or lack of benefits.

Every time I asked I was basically met with a similar handful of responses. "We aren't looking for builders right now." "We have no active projects that a builder might be necessary for." "Previously, some people didn't like it." (paraphrased responses)


The amount of times I've basically done a builder's work while relying on someone else to approve my edits has kinda been interesting, with just player available tools. Especially since that's basically what a Builder does. Me and Aromit did the Tarantula dungeons(the one I designed was supposedly the biggest, with a minor amount of rooms added to pad it out and make it feel bigger), I trawled through a bunch of southern Kadius stuff and got 100+ items recipes that were previously uncraftable (and a bunch of others fixed that were incorrectly tagged), assisted with the Tree Project (Cynipri, Pymlithe, Styrax Lumber Axe, Cylini Plank, and some minor auditing for stuff that Ath wasn't aware of and some inconsistencies in staffside documentation; Usiku's updates to my own items were neat), bad website documentation being reworded with the forum-side Helpfile project. A billion wishups to fix broken items.

I don't personally think building/crafting work has ever been that hard to implement, and there's always been an insistence that the rate at which items/rooms/crafts get implemented was adequate/fine/bloated/excessive on staffside. And alot of times it's not bureaucracy or the request tool getting in the way, it's just entrenched pace/culture/time-limitations. 

SO I guess here's my q for the qna: Why now, is the Building Team being up for consideration again? There's the obvious answer of a game structure overhaul and a potentially increased workload for Seasons, but what changed in staff attitudes for the sudden shift in 'need'? What assurances are there that the crafting system and DB will be padded out, rooms will be worked on etc; because historically the pace at which DB and map updates happen in Arm is glacial compared to other muds.

Usually, getting rooms updated in Armageddon has always been fighting tooth and nail to actually get player-side-effort set into the game, and it was never usually the request tool getting in the way but staff culture, staff turnover, or disinterest to actually get things "done" unless niche criteria were met... It's been said that player agency will be increased, but will it actually be easier for someone to make room-specific impact in the game instead of having to fight for it?

More cooks in the kitchen do get things done faster, but is there any project management, deadlines, etc for the upcoming Building Team?

[Kaathe]

Playing your character while staffing. Not having to engage in player plots if you don't want to. Doing only the work you WANT to do.

Are you talking like, historically? Obviously we haven't been able to play while staffing since march and even prior to that it was only admin+ who could do it for who knows how long.

I have never heard of player plot support being optional.  Limited maybe out of time constraints and fairness, but not optional.

Doing only the work you want to do did seem like a thing that used to be. But if you're not resolving your clans request or adequately communicating what you're doing then you do get in trouble. It definitely feels like a job at times.  That's not bad. Responsibility feels like that at times. 

[Boggis]

Rather than try to find a way to reduce the workload (initially), staff preferred to give more boons and boosts to new staffers. Playing your character while staffing. Not having to engage in player plots if you don't want to. Doing only the work you WANT to do.

It was a misstep, and there are many players who wanted to help. I have a Masters is Organizational Development and Leadership. I know another player who recently got their Black Belt in Lean/Six Sigma (related to efficiency and team building).

I wouldn't really disagree with that if that's the case. If it is I know Staff would probably say it was the only way to get people to join as Staff. But either way it's done now. From the Announcement post it looks like they've recognised this and Staff won't be able to play characters during each Season and will focus solely on staffing & story-telling. I think this is a good change.

I've got almost 25 years now working for large financial institutions, have run various large projects & programmes, etc. so yes there's a wealth of valuable experience and knowledge among the playerbase that potentially could be leveraged. I doubt there's any issues that Arm is facing on the Staff side that we haven't seen at work in some form or fashion over the years. Usually the actual fixes for these are simple enough - it's typically more a question of time, finite resources & competing priorities. With the upcoming downtime it could be a good opportunity for the Staff to use some of that experience out there to get some additional help.

[FamousAmos]

Why is staff pushing this so hard?

Because they're looking down the road and can see the writing on the wall with a slowly declining playerbase that's split across 2 major population centres. We can all argue about the details of the decision and how it was delivered, etc. but they clearly believe looking at the data that something has to be done soon to keep this game alive long-term. I'd completely agree with that assessment.

Its one thing to anticipate on what's to come, but why only inform part of your staffing committee before announcing the change?

Since this Q wasn't A yet.

They havent said it in plain text. But i've been looking between the lines and I got an educated guess.

The north has had like 8 ST's in 4 months. They show up, answer a singular report, and are gone the next week. But they haven't exactly been doing that many staffing RC's... Why?

They aren't getting enough staff apps to maintain the turnover. And not enough staff to maintain the game.
Reducing the game to 25% of it's size lets them use their core staff to handle everything, and rotate new ones through. the new staff organization chart helps prove this, as it was made to lower the amount of staff needed to handle the whole game.

This next part is pure speculation based on the evidence at hand. But the evidence seems strong:

This all points to a toxic environment for staff, made by other staff. When I see a new ST come in happy and strong-willed but be gone in a rl week with almost no interaction with payers... Well, that screams something pretty loudly there. Do this 4-5 times, and you have enough screaming to make a metal album.

Maybe this is going to be used to politely remove said toxic parts? Let's hope so. Because that toxic environment would be the real poison that's killing arm.

edit: Who the toxic one/ones would be I have no idea. All the current remaining staff have been 100% cool to me. Enth has always been level with me, I love Kat, and I don't think I've done much with Usi. Also, i have no idea who staffs the south. Just wanted to add this part so mods don't think i'm subtly pointing at someone here. I got no inside info, i don't talk to ya'll for the most part. This is just very obvious evidence I'm discussing here.

Raising this again because there are only more questions rising up from this inquiry. It seems people did apply for staff but were declined.

Plus the fact that only part of the resident staff were informed about this major change in the game...

Why the secrecy? Why were other staffers not involved regarding this decision? I sympathize with these people, truly. It probably feels like a stab in the back, and no wonder that a lot of them are stepping away from the staffing crew.

[mansa]

One of the things I'm more excited about - is the potential to reduce the OOC knowledge barriers that we have.

Since it seems that there is an overarching goal or storyline for each season, this can be shared with the playerbase to get everybody on board.
This can also be designed in such a way that OOC cheating can be ... eliminated?  Or at least -expected- and designed with that in mind - players shouldn't have a way of spoiling the plot.  It can be designed so that any spoilers provided don't actually spoil everything.

[Usiku]

Just a few before I go to bed...

Its one thing to anticipate on what's to come, but why only inform part of your staffing committee before announcing the change?

You say this like staff only found out about the plan via the announcement on the GDB or something? This is not the case. The timeline for communication has been regrettably fast but staff were informed ahead of the announcement to the wider community. The decision, however, was made by the leadership team.

I'd say they probably are to some extent. But people will think I'll be alright, it won't get to me. Then they run into the playerbase in all it's glory and, honestly, I don't know if I could stick it. I remember 10+ years ago I was introduced into an OOC channel of players through one of the few players I did know OOC. That was eye opening. I'd always suspected it but the amount of cheating, bitching & whining  and general assholery was incredible. It honestly ruined the game a bit for me knowing who these characters were IC and also knowing what they were getting up to. It wouldn't surprise me if things haven't changed for the better. Having to deal with all that kind of stuff has to be wearying as staff. Then throw on top of that all the largely frivolous complaints to deal with.

I'm sure there's other issues too. I'd bet that all the documentation is kind of a mess as there's never really been time to properly tidy it up and other stuff takes priority. Anyone who's worked for an organization knows what I'm talking about.

And as they're overstretched they're probably in fire fighting mode where people are being asked to help out wherever the current big ticket problem is. Anyone who's worked for an organization where resources are tight knows what I'm talking about.

Then are there intra-staff issues? Quite possible though I'd like to think that the current staff are decent. I've had zero issues with any of my interactions with them.

Throw it all together though and you've got a position that's challenging. A number of people who are volunteering to do something will just quit once reality hits home. Why keep doing something every day that's just not fun?

Uhh. Are you.. Secretly on staff or something?

Why now, is the Building Team being up for consideration again? There's the obvious answer of a game structure overhaul and a potentially increased workload for Seasons, but what changed in staff attitudes for the sudden shift in 'need'?

It's been said that player agency will be increased, but will it actually be easier for someone to make room-specific impact in the game instead of having to fight for it?

More cooks in the kitchen do get things done faster, but is there any project management, deadlines, etc for the upcoming Building Team?

I'm not sure where you are getting this from but we haven't really had any discussions on our side about reopening the builder team, at least not that I have been a part of. There is a big difference between people in the community saying they would join as builders and us actually having an intent to open the builder team again. So with that in mind, no, there is nothing in place for the upcoming Building Team, because it does not exist.

Re. player agency and room-specific impact, yes. We are hoping for more player agency across the board and this would be part of that. Less 'no's' and more 'yes and or no but's.

[papertiger]

One of the things I'm more excited about - is the potential to reduce the OOC knowledge barriers that we have.

Since it seems that there is an overarching goal or storyline for each season, this can be shared with the playerbase to get everybody on board.
This can also be designed in such a way that OOC cheating can be ... eliminated?  Or at least -expected- and designed with that in mind - players shouldn't have a way of spoiling the plot.  It can be designed so that any spoilers provided don't actually spoil everything.

I'm not quite understanding what you mean. How would it help cheating? Because we'd all know the overarching plot for that season? People could still try to collude, I'd think. It seems almost like it might happen more often because people would be able to share more about their characters and events in game after each season.

Edit - I suppose Im not understanding what you mean by knowledge barriers and Im curious about that

[betweenford]

-snip builders snip-

IIRC it was Halaster on Discord who had said that builders were likely going to be opened up.

And then Lizzie said around pretty immediately that she'd put in an application.

Edit: If the builder team isn't even a consideration, contrary to Halaster, then uhhhhhhh... lol? Sorry to say but that doesn't really get already stifled hopes up about the future of the project. There seems to be alot of that, the right hand not talking to the left.

[frankjacoby]

I've been digesting all that has been posted and noone is acknowledging that maybe the problem is not the game itself, it's the way it's being run. A Mud is supposed to be about the players making changes and letting things evolve naturally not gripping with an iron fist and dictating how things should be run. You can't expect players to want to conform to the way YOU want things to be, they get beat down with being set back because YOU choose things to go this way. Sponsored roles and what not, you making things happen as opposed to letting people make things happen. Going about the game business as usual, cutting out things that people enjoy, ie removing a certain water area and replacing with a spire, why? What's the point of what you are doing? People might have enjoyed an area now it's all in darkness, certain little things like a certain hole removed.  WHY are you destroying things that people liked? Why did you close Tuluk before?  The excuse cannot be that there is not enough staff, the problem is the way things are being done.

The playerbase has spoken when it comes to the upcoming changes, do a /who on a Friday, 10 people, 4 people etc.
Pursuing something without proper input is how we got here in the first place.  Forcing people to comply with your whims and desires is how we got here in the first place. We're repeating all the mistakes in different forms. Karma, don't get me started on Karma.

[mansa]

One of the things I'm more excited about - is the potential to reduce the OOC knowledge barriers that we have.

Since it seems that there is an overarching goal or storyline for each season, this can be shared with the playerbase to get everybody on board.
This can also be designed in such a way that OOC cheating can be ... eliminated?  Or at least -expected- and designed with that in mind - players shouldn't have a way of spoiling the plot.  It can be designed so that any spoilers provided don't actually spoil everything.

I'm not quite understanding what you mean. How would it help cheating? Because we'd all know the overarching plot for that season? People could still try to collude, I'd think. It seems almost like it might happen more often because people would be able to share more about their characters and events in game after each season.

Edit - I suppose Im not understanding what you mean by knowledge barriers and Im curious about that

Yeah.  I'll make up an example.

Plot:
* Overarching Goal - Shake up the Noble Hierarchy in Allanak by having the players find a macguffin item, which is hidden somewhere in the known world. 
* Once this object is found, it needs to find its way to NPC XYZ, who will give players hints about its wearables until it is received and returned to him. 
-> If it is recovered and 'stored' in a warehouse, have it echo or draw the occupying player and give them hints to find the owner, NPC XYZ.
* After NPC XYZ has the object, have them require additional objects A, B, and C to make the object "function".
* Once all the items are collected, have the event happen.
* Based on the participation of the Noble Houses in Allanak in this fetch quest, they will shift in rank.


This quest can be spoiled by a few things:
a) players figure out where it is BEFORE they know its importance, and get it.
b) players keep the object, and give it to the opposite faction which stores it forever.
c) players prevent the collection of objects A, B, C, without actually having a reason to.

So, let's look at the plot again and treat it like the players already know everything, including /what/ to collect, /what it will do/, and /where to get it/ BEFORE it's time.

This is more of a wish for long-term plot design fundamentals, of which has an underlying understanding that players will talk amongst themselves as players about the cool events they are engaging with.  And when a player talks to another player, the "cheating" or "In-Character actions based on Out-Of-Character knowledge" that can happen will be something that ultimately can't ruin the plot.  Build the world plot that can withstand players using OOC information in-game, and when the players cheat it doesn't actually affect the game plot.