Seasons Q&A

[DustMight]

I know that staff have pretty much never been good at communicating but "this isn't a democracy" in response to someone asking why staff didn't check to see if the player base would want the change first is pretty callous.

It's a constant thing though, Kaverick. I don't think it's wrong for the player base to be upset that staff did not ask of our opinions. WE as PLAYERS are the reason this game continues to go on, so not asking the 50 players or what not of their opinion is poor in my eyes. I would understand if it was a bigger player base but it is just not. I don't think it is cruel or insensitive that people are saying that. It's how they feel, it's a game that hasn't changed drastically in years and now it is without input from the players that keep it going is highly ridiculous. Specially with such a low player base, I can't say that enough. YOU also say staff haven't been good at communicating, that is false. They have tried and done well in some areas and other areas have failed. It happens, we are humans of course. I don't see it as a problem for us as players to ask that of the staff who are also players why they don't ask for input on major changes on a dying game. Just my two cents.

100%
And the reason for the change is specious at best! Is it to "save" the game? Is the lack of meaningful character progression and development going to pull teens and young adults away from D4, Stellaris, or the million of other video game offerings to play a text-based RPG that requires hours of attention and dedication set in a a world that is based on some old pen and paper RPG? Do they think folks are showing up at the local bookstore asking if they can get Prism Pentad?" They are not. They will not come. At best a percentage of current players (myself included) will never visit the deserts of Zalanthas again and no one will replace us. Like it or not, this is stamp collecting. It's a weird old hobby and there's not much interest in it.

Further, Hal's blatant statement that "this isn't a democracy" has been painfully true for so long now. And it's nothing to be proud of to be sure and goes a long way in explaining why the real problems of the game were never adequately addressed. The fact that staff could never quite see their own problem has led to a pretty crazy decision that clearly will not succeed.

[Norcal]

Oh my.  This is a major risk and I do not think it is one that we really need to take. I am not worried about the new format, although I think it needs to be re-worked.  I am worried about the down time.

-It will in fact, last longer than projected. 
-We will lose players, which is something we cannot accept.
-There will be a correlation between the amount of time the game is down, and the number of players who leave and never return. The longer, the worse the damage.
- I would like to know the method of planned player retention during the downtime.  How are you going to keep us on board. It must be interactive and participative.
-Related to the above remark, how will you be contacting us?  You cannot simply rely on people visiting he GDB or Discord.  YOU will have to keep US informed. How?

Rushing into this is not something staff should take upon themselves to do alone.  We as a community should decide the pace and the boundaries, and even, the if.  Otherwise, this is a game of Russian roulette.

I would suggest, that the game not be closed during the remake.  Keep a section open. Let us play our PCs.  Work the other sections.  You can do this with more limited staff, and free others up for the development of the new game. You can do rotating blocks. Complete closure for an undetermined yet extended period..is not a good idea.

Of course, one more bloody thing to say..Staff, Why on earth would you want to take on a great deal of work, in a way that may well result in your having worked in vain? If you do not have players..then really..

Cheers
Norcal

[Boggis]

I would suggest, that the game not be closed during the remake.  Keep a section open. Let us play our PCs.  Work the other sections.  You can do this with more limited staff, and free others up for the game. You can do rotating blocks. Complete closure for an undetermined yet extended period..is not a good idea.

I think this is a good idea on balance. I work in project management and it's pretty rare to see a program get done on time. Unexpected things always come up e.g. Staff members lose interest and quit, Staff members get sick, Staff members RL jobs or family commitments suddenly get busier and they don't have the time to dedicate to this, etc. Any or all of these could happen and impact the timelines.

Keeping the game open but letting it freewheel with minimal oversight will add some time to the new Arm go live date but will help with player retention - especially if new Arm work starts taking longer than anticipated. I'd keep Staff work on old Arm as light as possible. Keep the game up & running and deal with rule breakers. No special apps except those who want to take on an open leader role, no Staff animations (unless they feel like dipping in), no special crafting items, player complaints will be ignored bar cheating reports, etc. Just let people who want to play keep on playing.

On balance this feels like a decent compromise though I'm not privy to exactly how much effort would go into leaving the game in freewheel mode.

[Usiku]

We cannot build the impact your PCs will have had into the future game unless we have a stopping point in time to work from. If you continue to play and change course and do different things then that makes that aspect pretty impossible for us.

There is also a large amount of work needed to keep the lights on and the game running even when it might feel 'unsupported' to players.

[FantasyWriter]

We cannot build the impact your PCs will have had into the future game unless we have a stopping point in time to work from. If you continue to play and change course and do different things then that makes that aspect pretty impossible for us.

There is also a large amount of work needed to keep the lights on and the game running even when it might feel 'unsupported' to players.

It addition to these reasons, also, once the announcement was made, X number if players decided to quit or went ahead and quit playing (the number today show that). Dragging it out longer, would likely result in it dwindling to just a handful of PCs still requiring the full load of staff for maintenance. Once you decide to kill a beast it is time to release the trigger, not keep tormenting them with the hope of life.

[Leudoberct]

Already brought this up in the Discord, and a few people seemed receptive to it, so I'll post it in here.

Would you guys consider an 'alternation' pattern with the seasons? Rather than departing from the current gameworld entirely, have the game alternate between seasons and the normal setting. Another server I was on once did this method, and by swapping between the two, people didn't feel like they were giving up their characters- and the seasons could serve to give context to the normal setting. If we were constantly jumping between different eras and locations, I feel like it would be hard to 'ground' yourself to the setting.

[Is Friday]

One of the things that occurred to me recently is that a majority of my bad experiences in this game are brought on by staff who are:
1. Not Game Masters (or very qualified to be Game Masters).
2. More interested in administrative power/influence than telling stories.

Alas.

[Miradus]

Did the player committee know about this big change?

If so, what was their thoughts?

And what does Mansa have to say?

[kahuna]

We cannot build the impact your PCs will have had into the future game unless we have a stopping point in time to work from. If you continue to play and change course and do different things then that makes that aspect pretty impossible for us.

There is also a large amount of work needed to keep the lights on and the game running even when it might feel 'unsupported' to players.

Why does there need to be any impact on my PC? I would never assume that my PC needs some sort of impact being put upon it from staff.

What work specifically needs to be done? 

I feel like there were a hundred other things that could have been tried before something as drastic as this. Especially stuff that's a time sink
-get rid of request system
-get rid of gdb
-streamline the discord server with bots that can automate stuff
-ask for help from professional game designers or community managers
-advance the metaplot in an exciting and interesting way
-stop doing rolecalls
-reach out to disenchanted players
-send an email blast or newsletter

Maybe some of this was done I don't know but I never saw any of it.

[Dresan]

I was never able to get back into the game but this was long before last major drama with certain people clearly that took its toll on the community. Still, I hope those people remained banned for all time.


I am really sad to see the game has declined to this point. I have my thought of the more clan centric aoproach the game took but i think its moot at this point.

Speaking honestly and with empathy for the effort being made, I think seasons will allow to the game and its remaining community to wind down with dignity while avoiding a sudden heartbreaking end. However, the moment a game closes people will find other things to do, breaking from new habits to revisit an old one becomes harder over time.

I dont post very much at this point so i will only add that regardless of what is decided, I will quietly support and understand any decision those who remain make. I also want to wish nothing but success and happiness in the future to everyone here.

[Pariah]

Did the player committee know about this big change?

If so, what was their thoughts?

And what does Mansa have to say?

I will say when I was on the PC, this was floated by staff and discussed loosely, it was by no means a DEFINITE thing back then, but we did discuss it a little bit.  I don't recall if everyone was like HOLY SHIT NO, or HOLY SHIT YES.

I am pretty sure my response was, "Cool, changing the game finally is a good thing." in a nutshell.

As for the Mansa question, He's not a member of staff or anyone who matters beyond just over moderating posts, why does his feelings in this regard matter than others?

[Miradus]

As for the Mansa question, He's not a member of staff or anyone who matters beyond just over moderating posts, why does his feelings in this regard matter than others?

Because he never says shit unless he has 10 pages of statistics to back him up.

He is a nerd's nerd and for that reason alone I respect his opinion.

[Malken]

As for the Mansa question, He's not a member of staff or anyone who matters beyond just over moderating posts, why does his feelings in this regard matter than others?

mansa is our Ja Rule.

[Fredd]

We cannot build the impact your PCs will have had into the future game unless we have a stopping point in time to work from. If you continue to play and change course and do different things then that makes that aspect pretty impossible for us.

There is also a large amount of work needed to keep the lights on and the game running even when it might feel 'unsupported' to players.

except... We don't know how much time we have, or what we can even hope to accomplish.

This would have made sense if you guys said "Hey, we are going to finish the current world story we advertised about war and end this version of the game. We expect this to take around 4 months. During this time we will be prepping for very first season!  We will be dropping plot hints as to what that season will entail in the south, so if you want a sneak peak, roll a throw away character down there for the last month!"

This would have given us ample time to get ready, and for our pc's to meet natural ends. Giving us closure, and getting us excited for the future. You could have dropped RC's during the last month of play, so people could start working up new ideas.

But instead we get a month and a half, with no real promise of any resolutions to the ongoing plots. Legit: I can't possibly do any of the things I want in the time left. I can't. I have to rest on the 1 Bucket list thing I accomplished, and HOPE you guys include that in northern seasons. If the game even makes it to one.

We are promised months of downtime between this iteration and Seasons too. That downtime is where projects die.

[Norcal]

But instead we get a month and a half, with no real promise of any resolutions to the ongoing plots. Legit: I can't possibly do any of the things I want in the time left. I can't. I have to rest on the 1 Bucket list thing I accomplished, and HOPE you guys include that in northern seasons. If the game even makes it to one.

We are promised months of downtime between this iteration and Seasons too. That downtime is where projects die.

Fredd is quite right.  As usual. And all this still begs the question as to the actual player base even wanting this change?

Managing transitions well is the key to actually surviving them. Usiku, do you want this game to survive? If so then please take to heart the comments in this thread. You are moving too fast.

[mansa]

One of the issues I've experienced in the past, is the apparent unwillingness for staff members to implement changes to the world based on player input.

For example:
* Closing a secret clan because it was replaced with another non-secret clan.

* Adding a warehouse location to the labyrinth

* Updating misaligned rooms or rooms that don't map correctly in an excel file.

* Changing rooms that are not-in-use to be functionally useable.

* Adding new NPCs to rooms to allow a basic gameplay loops of hunting/gathering/buying/selling


Perhaps unwillingness is the wrong word to use, but the ability to be agile in making changes to the written world is often stopped.  I feel the only reason why I have been successful in getting these changes implemented is because I bring them up every month in my reports, asking for 'next steps' and using my terrible project management skills.  I basically keep pushing and pushing and pushing until I wear the staff out and it all gets rushed and implemented in a weekend.



An example would be when the Blockade NPC soldiers in Tuluk got moved around and the wagon Blockade got removed.  I was playing an Artisan Elf who rented the wagon selling shop in the Red Sun Commons in Tuluk, and I was selling wagons out of the NPC there - however, there was a "blockade" preventing wagons from entering/exiting the Red Sun Commons - preventing people who purchased a wagon from piloting it outside the city, or even preventing it to be piloted towards the wagon rental NPC.

During my conversations with staff, a response was, "Wish up, pay soldiers 1000 coins, and we will allow the wagon blockade to be removed so you can move your recently purchased wagon from the Red Sun Commons to the Wagon Rental NPC near the Western Gates of Tuluk."

This is clearly a playability issue that wasn't consider when the area was being built, and the issue wasn't resolved until a staff turnover happened.  Of course, being told 'maybe' for 8 months and then being told 'yes' once a new staff member came on board is disheartening, but my heart is very calloused.
 


I believe these issues will still remain in the new game mode.  I believe that being agile, being able to change the written world, is something that the staff mindset actively discourage.  I have probably been one of the most successful players in getting the game world changed, and it's still one that requires months long reports and pushing and reminders and essays and graphs and maps and animated gifs.  (oh so many gifs)


Can you encourage me that being dynamic and being agile, from a hierarchy and systemic point of view, will change for the better in this new future?

[Triskelion]

I wonder how much it'll matter if one's "big accomplishment of the season" happens early on in a season.

Let's say a season is 12 months long. You spend the first six of them putting together Honest Amos' Merchant Company, but then you die and the clan inevitably peters out, as player-made clans practically always do once the creator is no longer around. The season keeps going for another six months, and by the end, Honest Amos is kind of forgotten.

Or you did all that in the second half of the season and lived to the end. Even if you did the exact same things and lived for the exact same amount of time, now you might have a chance at getting your own GMH established as a historical fixture of the lore. You get your memorial plaque.

The seasonal model risks coming with an unwritten rule that basically says "your shit only goes into the history books if it was ongoing when the season ended." After all, it's hard to ask for your seasonal story to be immortalized if it was irrelevant for the whole second half of the season. Looking at the current version of the game, almost nothing anybody did is still relevant IC six months after they died/stored/whatever.

On one hand, that could mitigate the late-season staleness that many seasonal games experience. On the other, a fresh new season is when people should be going all out and doing their best, not dicking around and waiting until later so that their big ambition has a chance of becoming part of the game's fabric. Feels like that could be an issue for players who "blow their load" prior to the final curtains of an Armageddon season.

[Usiku]

I believe that being agile, being able to change the written world, is something that the staff mindset actively discourage. 

Can you encourage me that being dynamic and being agile, from a hierarchy and systemic point of view, will change for the better in this new future?

I think you are right in that this mindset is something that has existed within the staffing team, probably for a very long time. But it isn't something that we want to exist and more so recently we have been working towards being more agile. I've made various changes to the game world off the back of people's RPd efforts or feedback about things (including for you). What has held us back most recently is literally just manpower and lack of time. It's not that your repeated reminders wear staff down, it's just that sometimes fixing up a bit of map that could be aligned better is just a low priority and gets shunted to the back of the queue then eventually your nudge lands on someone at the right time when they are able to action it and it gets done.

[Riev]

That sounds an awful lot like "Submit reports for months until someone finally feels like doing it". Which is functionally pretty close to "We're sick of hearing Mansa request this, lets just do it and move on".

It also does not bode well for those of us who do NOT like writing as much as Mansa does. I'm a reactionary roleplayer who really enjoys having something to play off of. I don't want to have to write months of reports so that someone can "animate that tembo I've been chasing".

[Ulga]

I played arm for the first time nearly 2 decades ago. I was around during the Arm 2.0 fiasco.

This seems like staff are bored, and are willing to ruin /everything/ just to make /something/ different happen.

Ah well. RIP.

[650Booger]

long time player, former staffer, just chiming in.

This change isn't a deal-breaker for me.  most of my PCs are short lived (a few days to six months is average I'd say).  I like to play in a risky style that makes people want to kill my PC.  this game is supposed to be about MCB.  if your character is living longer than 18 months, you're probably not MCBing much.  this is not a criticism of these types of players, and I empathize with those who keep their PCs alive for RL years.  I could never do that, simply due to boredom if nothing else.  I always have ideas for my next several PCs qeued up.

Perhaps this change will encourage more MCB?  People who know that they have a limited lifespan anyway, might be more willing to put their PC into adverse circumstances?

possible downside:  if we are approaching the end of a season, and I find myself needing to create a new PC, I'll probably make some overpowered dwarf who can be combat effective within a day or two, so that I can continue to be relevant.  I wont be making any aides for end-season play as they take a long time to develop a reputation.

another possible downside: I enjoy both city-life and wilderness exploration.  I tend to alternate my PCs between those types of roles.  I'll play city, then I'll play explorer.  back and forth, also rotating between north and south.  this keeps things fresh for me.  now, I think this has been asked, but is solo-exploration still going to be a thing?  furthermore, will we be limited from moving beyond certain boundaries on the map?  for example, if we are in a allanak season, can I still go explore the grey if I want to?

I did not read all 5 pages of replies to this thread, I'm sure this is already redundant, I'm just committing some thoughts to writing here.

I will continue to play Arm until they switch it off permanently.

POSTSCRIPT FOR STAFF
Rotating new staff in seasonally?  I'd be down for a round of that.  Holla atcha boy!

[Malken]

I was told to post this here.

May I suggest something like Legends of the Jedi? They usually have 3 eras within a timeline (each era lasts 8-12 months) and no one gets wiped, but the next era starts with changes that the players made during that era. The end of the timeline is when it completely shifts into the future or past and everyone gets wiped. It gives players a lot of time to create changes within the era. I think that would satisfy both staff and players.

There's still a downtime between each era to set up for the next era but at least players know that they're characters will still be around and that the event of the era is taken into account for the next era is taken by staff.

Here's what happened in the last End of Era (I hope it's okay for me to post):

-----------
Broadcasting Network [GNI Report]: [ Republic Clings To Pyrrhic Victory After Defeating Mandalore As Coruscant Lies In Ruins ] A massive showdown between the Galactic Republic and the Mandalorian Clans left a catastrophic trail of destruction in its wake. The Mandalorians attacked Coruscant with all their might and captured an Orbital Solar Energy Transfer Satellite to pierce the planet's shields as a fierce space battle raged on. Mandalore Adha herself lead an elite strike team to the planet's surface and attacked key infrastructure, allowing the rest of the Mandalorian forces to land. As savage battles raged in the Coruscant streets, Mandalore was seen on the front lines leading her troops when an enormous explosion took out the Mandalorian leader and several of her team. With the Mandalorian naval threat neutralized, the Republic Navy proceeded to bomb the planet Mandalore itself while Mandalorians on Coruscant rallied after their leaders' death and pushed on. Mandalorian strike teams used the Orbital Satellite to direct an intense blast of energy at the Republic's Complex, and most of Coruscant's capital district. What happened to Mandalorian forces on the ground, let alone the full extent of devastation to Coruscant is far from known. As the galaxy burns from this devastating battle, many are left wondering... what comes next? Only time will tell. Stay tuned to GNI.
-----------

These were all done by the players within that era and they built the next era with that in mind. Players are happy and staff are happy.

[650Booger]

These were all done by the players within that era and they built the next era with that in mind. Players are happy and staff are happy.

dope format!  LotJ would be so sick if there wasn't so much OOC

[Krath]

Yeah Malken, I actually like that format way better.

[Halaster]

I was told to post this here.

So to make the comparison, you're saying a season divided into 3 chapters, each chapter lasting 8-12 months, making the whole season 24-36 months?  In the Jedi game was there a distinction made between the chapters/eras somehow to signify the changeover?