My Experience on the Player Committee

[wizturbo]

I wanted to take a moment to report out to the broader player community about what I've seen and experienced on the player committee after I was randomly selected several months ago.  I think it would be a good idea for other members of the committee to share their thoughts as well, I just wanted to start off the thread to get a dialogue going.

Before I get into my opinions and observations, I wanted to share some facts:

- There have been 20 staff complaints since the PC started

- None of these cases showed any evidence of any serious staff misconduct.  One case was borderline with some significant allegations but lacked supporting evidence and had a lot of history behind it.  With that said, most of the complaints didn't even suggest that there was misconduct, the majority were focused on game related issues or escalating requests to producers where there was disagreement.  A significant portion of the complaints were continuations from a previous complaint.

- Nearly every complaint generated hours of discussion between the producers and the committee.  A few probably generated 10+ of hours of discussion.  Some led to policy changes.  In total, I think it's safe to say that Halaster, Brokkr and Usiku spent at least 50-100+ hours working on these between Discord, writing replies, and researching over the last several months.  I was trying to figure out if there was a way to get a word count on the amount of discussions we've had on the discord, but I can't seem to figure it out...  I think its safe to say there's hundreds of thousands of words there between the ~9 people who were on the discord since it started.

- While the Player Committee serves the function of reviewing and offering advice on complaints, it often sparks a lot of discussions on the overall game health as a complaint may point out a problem.  I'd say half the discussion time is actually going down those rabbit holes, rather than talking about just the specifics of a complaint.

Now on to some of my opinions:

First and foremost, spending these last several months with a peek behind the curtains has given me a greater respect for the patience, consistency, and overall professionalism of our producers.  We've got some great people at the top of this game.  It's pretty incredible how much effort they put into their mostly thankless roles to keep this game running.

On the flip side, I've gotten a glimpse at some of the players side of things too.  There's a pretty wide range here.  Some complaints are shining a light on some aspect of the game that really needs to be looked at, whereas others were frivilous or even straight up toxic.
 
I've enjoyed my time on the PC overall.  I've probably spent more time writing in the PC Discord than actually playing Armageddon these last few months (Baldur's Gate 3...),  but it's nice to contribute and be able to engage asychronously on something without having to work on staff.  I feel like a lot of the advice we've offered has been heard, and some positive changes have come as a result of it.  It's also given me a greater appreciation for just how challenging it is to staff and operate this game, and a sense of gratitude for everyone who works on it.  I'd encourage people to throw their name in the hat when there are opening in the future as people's term limits expire.

Happy to answer some questions if anyone is curious.

[mansa]

Some complaints are shining a light on some aspect of the game that really needs to be looked at, whereas others were frivilous or even straight up toxic.

I'm curious about the complaints that shined a light on game aspects that need to be looked at.

Primarily for myself - am I reproducing those negative aspects by my gameplay?

What do you think is the root cause of these problems, and given a magick wand, what do you think is required to fix them?

[Krath]

Is your question for Wizturbo or those that serve, or have served, on the PC?

[mansa]

Is your question for Wizturbo or those that serve, or have served, on the PC?

I'll be open to anyone that has insight from their experience on the Player Committee, as I think both you and Wizturbo might have different answers to those questions, even though you both are witness to the same thing.   I don't care about the frivolous complaints.

[Krath]

1. There is no overarching story or direction for the game. Some staffers will say the player's stories are and I disagree...Those should be branches from the staff driven direction.The game is basically the Sims with a staff/admins and no clear direction except exist.

2. Staff and Players need to communicate with more transparency and directness. If a player ask can I do A and it is not possible, just say it isn't possible.

3. Passdowns between staffers when rotations change is somewhat decent at best. The lack of continuity between how one staffer understands and views the docs and another is jarring and has caused frustration between players and staff.

4. There is no clear leader. It used to be Ness, then Sanvean before him. This causes massive delays in decision making, as I have seen it first hand. The committee idea is great in theory, not practice.

5. Storytellers need more freedom to be storytellers and make decisions on the stories they are telling or support without admin support or decision making.

[wizturbo]

I'm curious about the complaints that shined a light on game aspects that need to be looked at.

Primarily for myself - am I reproducing those negative aspects by my gameplay?

What do you think is the root cause of these problems, and given a magick wand, what do you think is required to fix them?

My perspective on the complaints side really boils down to a few common themes:

1)  Challenges playing a leader in Armageddon and collaborating with staff. 
2)  Interpretation and/or differences of opinion on the rules or themes of the game
3)  Areas of the game where rules/policies/staff choices make the game less fun for the player(s)

In many cases, these kinds of complaints are honestly quite welcomed if they're coming from a good place and the player takes some time to write/edit their thoughts clearly.  I think it gives the Producers insight into things they may not see others.  I think the magick wand here is really for complaints to be brought up in a respectful, positive manner so the producers can discuss it.  Where things break down is when someone uses the staff complaints when they're fuming mad and write out a long emotional outburst with a lot of accusations and venom.  It takes the team a lot of time to separate the emotion from the real source of the issue...  Kind of like if a doctor is trying to diagnose a medical issue, but the patient is piss drunk.

Maybe that's the #1 takeaway I'd have for players regarding all of their staff interactions...  don't write requests when you're angry, and don't assume the worst from staff.  Treat them like you would a Dungeon Master who runs a tabletop game for you, and I think everyone would be so much happier.

[wizturbo]

3. Passdowns between staffers when rotations change is somewhat decent at best. The lack of continuity between how one staffer understands and views the docs and another is jarring and has caused frustration between players and staff.

4. There is no clear leader. It used to be Ness, then Sanvean before him. This causes massive delays in decision making, as I have seen it first hand. The committee idea is great in theory, not practice.

5. Storytellers need more freedom to be storytellers and make decisions on the stories they are telling or support without admin support or decision making.

Working on Armageddon as staff kind of sucks from the outside looking in.  It's a lot of work, the players aren't very grateful for it, and that leads to a lot of staff turnover.  In turn, the experience gets worse as continuity breaks down and staff experience levels are generally lower.  Since experience levels are lower....storyteller independence is impacted, and the cycle continues.

As for the 'there is no leader' comment...  I agree that a committee is less effective than a single leader at the top, but I don't see why anyone in their right mind would want to do that job.  The community is too divided, and they'll just be a lightning rod for negativity without having anyone else there to help shoulder the load.

[Pariah]

My opinion of my months on the PC is going to be less PC than the others who have been there.

Staff wastes a TON of time on people's feelings being hurt.

As mentioned above, there was like one legitimate complaint and it was as he said, borderline.  The rest were all trivial at best.

And because of the recent past with Shaloonosh and his sexual predator behaviors, they are, understandably trying to be extremely cautious with responses back to people.  I've watched responses go from "Stop wasting our time." to Carebear nonsense just because (In my opinion) they knew that the player who complained was emotionally or mentally compromised and would fly off the handle at the slightest mishandling.

The most surprising thing though that I learned was that I actually agreed with staff in most cases, outside the carebear bits, but the general response structure and answers given was what I would do in their place based on the complaints.  They overly cushioned it for my liking is all.

I will say in my opinion of the three producers, Halaster was the most even keeled between the lash and the feather.  Usiku was soft as playdoh and Brokkr tended to be more of the fuck you, I'll do what I feel like vibe.

The PC was vastly different too, one person was obsessed with having threads created in every complaint so that they wouldn't have to strain their middle mouse button finger or something reading through it.

I was actively playing when I first joined and even with them removing clans/names and trying to censor it was pointless, I knew who almost every player was and most of the characters who complained.  So I think the censoring is a waste of finger dexterity for them and muddies the whole process.  When I got busy with work and fucked off and stopped playing for a while, I'd occasionally dip in the PC discord and just roll my eyes over the current complaint they were discussing.  Up until Halaster just asked if I could be booted since I wasn't around anymore and I said sure.

All in all it was eye opening to me though, it sorta helps me understand how the Nyr's and other strict-dickhead staffers are created, because they are assailed with nonsense probably daily from players, and occasionally there will be a request or complaint that has merit.

Makes me wonder, 100% seriously if muds just draw in those with emotional and mental issues from my experience listening to the things that people said in complaints.  I mean, trust me, I know I have my own issues, lack of empathy and all that, but I wonder if everyone else at least has that much clarity of self?

[wizturbo]

Staff wastes a TON of time on people's feelings being hurt.

Yup.  I don't think my 50-100 hours was an exaggeration.  Incredible amounts of time goes into responding to complaints with care.   I've also questioned whether it's going too far.  They just seem to care a lot about not losing good players to bad request tool responses.  It's really draining though.  I think Halaster finally had enough after a point and it contributed to him wanting to take a step back.  Hopefully this temporary, he really is a great leader.

[seltzer]

it's a challenge to take the integrity of the whole player committee thing seriously when you have (ex)members calling out the emotional and mental health of their fellow players.

[Pariah]

it's a challenge to take the integrity of the whole player committee thing seriously when you have (ex)members calling out the emotional and mental health of their fellow players.

So this a Voldemort thing where we can't mention things like that?

I'm being 100% curious and authentic when I wonder aloud if muds attract the afflicted.

[seltzer]

it's a challenge to take the integrity of the whole player committee thing seriously when you have (ex)members calling out the emotional and mental health of their fellow players.

So this a Voldemort thing where we can't mention things like that?

I'm being 100% curious and authentic when I wonder aloud if muds attract the afflicted.

no this is a real life thing where you're making judgments about people's mental wellbeing based on interactions that you've been invited to observe.

i don't care that you're a bad person except that it reflects extremely poorly on the committee. it's a bad look.

[Pariah]

it's a challenge to take the integrity of the whole player committee thing seriously when you have (ex)members calling out the emotional and mental health of their fellow players.

So this a Voldemort thing where we can't mention things like that?

I'm being 100% curious and authentic when I wonder aloud if muds attract the afflicted.

no this is a real life thing where you're making judgments about people's mental wellbeing based on interactions that you've been invited to observe.

i don't care that you're a bad person except that it reflects extremely poorly on the committee. it's a bad look.

You are entitled to your opinion, the joy of discussion boards.

[wizturbo]

i don't care that you're a bad person except that it reflects extremely poorly on the committee. it's a bad look.

I agree with you.  So did more than one of the people on the committee when it came to Pariah's opinions and the kind of language he used.  The committee is selected at random, so you're going to have a wide range of personalities involved.  Fortunately, I think this is just a Pariah problem, not a "committee" problem as no one else really seems to have this issue.  To be clear, Pariah wasn't a wholly negative presence on the committee.  He participated in the discussions in good faith and made quite a few positive contributions, but the tone of some of his comments were definitely a cause of conflict on the committee both from the players and staff alike.

With that said, there are some rules now which I've pasted below which all members must adhere to our they'll be asked to leave the committee.  In my opinion, we haven't had any issues since these rules were established which includes a period of time where Pariah was still on the committee, and to his credit he did moderate himself afterwards.

Rules

• Do not speculate about the identify of redacted persons. You may think you can guess, you may know, but if it is relevant to the resolution of the complaint then it would have been revealed. Whatever you think you may know do not speculate or talk about it to others.
• Maintain respect for those involved, whether the complainant, the subject or others involved, whether you know their identity or not - do not talk about them in insulting or disrespectful ways.  This is also includes other Player Committee members.

[Pariah]

I think I more or less agreed with others on the main points, is this bad, is this player overreacting, was this staffer right etc etc.

The difference is I don't really care to wordsmith shit to take into account your feelings.

[askaran]

I find it amusing that over the last 17-18 years I've been playing, I've always had the exact opposite feeling. I've been careful with my choice of words to avoid hurting the staff's feelings because, in the end, this is something I do for fun. If I were to offend a staff member, it could all go downhill. However, I've also come to realize that many of the players in this game will complain about anything, which makes me just as cautious about expressing my opinions on the forums. There have been countless times when I've written a lengthy response to board issues based on my experiences and the simple facts, only to delete or not post it because I know it won't lead anywhere. I can imagine that this feeling is even more pronounced among the committee and the staff.

Setting aside my own personal experiences, it's important for people to continue posting and reporting their problems because this is ultimately a team effort. Nevertheless, a bit of introspection can go a long way.

[Riev]

Maybe staff take an inordinate amount of time trying to find the best way to communicate with the players, but given enough opportunity and time the expectation is that they may learn the best ways to communicate that don't involve talking down to players or making them feel like shit-tier human beings because of disagreements.

I like the idea of the Player committee. I really do. Because it was my idea for 10 years. So far, it seems like from 3 committee members' testimonies that maybe it still isn't working and is causing more stress for staff and more workload for all those involved. But maybe thats just because:

Makes me wonder, 100% seriously if muds just draw in those with emotional and mental issues from my experience listening to the things that people said in complaints.

The difference is I don't really care to wordsmith shit to take into account your feelings.

This may be coming from a player, but it comes from a player who was on a committee that should have the game's best interests at heart and is, instead ... echoing the same "players are not deserving" attitude.

[Pariah]

I wish I could give you examples Riev but that's part of what we agree not to do, talk about exactly what happens.  But when I say that a huge chunk of them were TRIVIAL, I swear to god that if someone who had no interest in this game and just sat in on the complaint process were to weigh in, it's the same thing they would say knowing nothing and having no ties other than their honest testimony.

But let me give you an example I did not witness, but will show you the level of petty most of the complaints were...

Code Select Expand

Request: I would like a blue inix.
Staffer: No we don't make custom color inixes for people.
Complaint: X staffer totally disregarded my feelings and shit all over my idea, they are the worst and I feel like I'm not appreciated in this community.
PC members reading this: WTF?
That is the level right there of pure and utter nonsense they are taking high level staff and player volunteer time with.
(This didn't happen but things that are on that same level of silly did)

[Riev]

I'd like to note first:
"Player Volunteer" IS a staff member.

But also ... yeah that seems kind of ridiculous but its a tough line to walk. You want players to report when they feel slighted, or do you want them to "wait to submit and sit with the uneasy feelings"?

Isn't that the purpose of player/staff complaints? To say something left you feeling unappreciated or uncomfortable with a situation?

[Trevalyan]

On the flip side, I've gotten a glimpse at some of the players side of things too.  There's a pretty wide range here.  Some complaints are shining a light on some aspect of the game that really needs to be looked at, whereas others were frivilous or even straight up toxic.
 

Between this and the fact at least one staffer has left because of the burnout, I'm not surprised to hear that staff complaints represent an extremely draining yet unproductive use of the committee's time. You've certainly tried to point out that some complaints would actually be received in good faith, under specific circumstances, but there's observably a tendency throughout this thread to point out that most such complaints are at best trivial.

One thing I like about Armageddon as a MUD is that you don't have to "play it" on Reddit or alternate forums in order to succeed. Of course, if you have major concerns inside the game- and if you're trying to deal with those concerns at the same time as real-life crises or pre-existing "mental issues"- the inability to discuss problems outside the actual gameworld can lead to players withdrawing from the world entirely. But then, if those players were considered a problem anyways, who would consider it a loss?

[CirclelessBard]

First and foremost, spending these last several months with a peek behind the curtains has given me a greater respect for the patience, consistency, and overall professionalism of our producers.  We've got some great people at the top of this game.  It's pretty incredible how much effort they put into their mostly thankless roles to keep this game running.

This part honestly makes me wonder how many talented players and staff the game has lost over the years due to the burnout generated by player-staff communication without an advisory force like the player committee. An experience like this would certainly seem to explain a lot in retrospect.

A question for current/former player committee members I have is: what if anything would you change about how the player committee functions? I noticed a lot of commentary on the game itself, and how complaints have informed proposals on changing the game, but I was wondering what you all think about what would make the player committee run more optimally and better serve its purpose. Thanks!

[Pariah]

A question for current/former player committee members I have is: what if anything would you change about how the player committee functions? I noticed a lot of commentary on the game itself, and how complaints have informed proposals on changing the game, but I was wondering what you all think about what would make the player committee run more optimally and better serve its purpose. Thanks!

I would stop it from being EVERY staff complaint.  I trust them enough to bring the actual complaints that have merit before the PC, but as I said, 99.9% of them were a waste of time to us, and staff has better shit to do.

I sometimes would log into discord at 1am after getting home from a bar or night out, and just sit with my mouth hanging open at how silly some new complaint was that came in, they really should be able to just bin some of them.

[wizturbo]

A question for current/former player committee members I have is: what if anything would you change about how the player committee functions? I noticed a lot of commentary on the game itself, and how complaints have informed proposals on changing the game, but I was wondering what you all think about what would make the player committee run more optimally and better serve its purpose. Thanks!

I think the committee functions pretty well, but the one change I'd like to see is actually raising the bar on what requires the involvement of the producers to address.  Like having only 1 producer work on a complaint unless it seems serious, or maybe even close a complaint all together if we (the player committee) unanimously agrees it doesn't require action.  I would still want to record the complaint in our archives in case a pattern emerges down the line, it isn't an 'ignore this complaint' button, but rather send a pre-written response to cut down on all the administrative burden and back and forth discussion on a complaint that doesn't warrant it.

I would also love it if the request tool had a 24 hour cooldown period before the complaint is actually filed, requiring the player to log back in and confirm they want to send it before it goes through.  It would allow for a period of reflection and self moderation and it would cut down on some complaints that get filed and then self closed which happens fairly often.

[dumbstruck]

A question for current/former player committee members I have is: what if anything would you change about how the player committee functions? I noticed a lot of commentary on the game itself, and how complaints have informed proposals on changing the game, but I was wondering what you all think about what would make the player committee run more optimally and better serve its purpose. Thanks!

I would stop it from being EVERY staff complaint.  I trust them enough to bring the actual complaints that have merit before the PC, but as I said, 99.9% of them were a waste of time to us, and staff has better shit to do.

I sometimes would log into discord at 1am after getting home from a bar or night out, and just sit with my mouth hanging open at how silly some new complaint was that came in, they really should be able to just bin some of them.

wrt the bolded above:

There have been people expressing the desire for years that there be a request type that's not complaint, to send in, but it has been said over and over again in response to no just put whatever in under a complaint anyhow, even if it's literally just feedback. I'm not saying that it would help cut down on "frivolous staff complaints" but it would be a place these things could at least be pointed in the future if it existed, with maybe stricter outline of what might belong there versus as a formal complaint if such a thing existed.

[Patuk]

Well, what are people supposed to do? What is anyone supposed to do?

This or that issue pops up a lot. It can be a random dispute, it can be a private issue with some staff member, it can be an opinion about a request - none of these things are very rare. Nine times out of then, staff make very clear what the suggested resolution is: please send in a request.

Okay then. People do this. It may even drive burnout. But to first ask that people send requests and then notice there are, in fact, a lot of requests.....

Yeah.

[wizturbo]

I think there's a big difference between requests and complaints though.  As someone mentioned before, having a 'feedback' option on the request tool instead of a 'complaint' option might be helpful.  Having a direct line to the producers to share your thoughts, without requiring a formal complaint, would be nice.

[CirclelessBard]

I would stop it from being EVERY staff complaint.  I trust them enough to bring the actual complaints that have merit before the PC, but as I said, 99.9% of them were a waste of time to us, and staff has better shit to do.

I think the committee functions pretty well, but the one change I'd like to see is actually raising the bar on what requires the involvement of the producers to address.  Like having only 1 producer work on a complaint unless it seems serious, or maybe even close a complaint all together if we (the player committee) unanimously agrees it doesn't require action.  I would still want to record the complaint in our archives in case a pattern emerges down the line, it isn't an 'ignore this complaint' button, but rather send a pre-written response to cut down on all the administrative burden and back and forth discussion on a complaint that doesn't warrant it.

I don't see how staff unanimously deciding which staff complaints have merit would be any different from the pre-committee days, but I do like the idea of staff de-prioritizing or closing complaints based on unanimous committee feedback. I think there is still a lot of value in treating even "frivolous" complaints with care because what might seem frivolous to one person may be frustration after months of IC effort and coordination to another.

I do agree with the sentiment of having a separate "feedback" request. There is something to be said in the real world for treating complaints as, essentially, unsolicited feedback: something to potentially learn from and improve, rather than interpret as an attack. At the same time, there's definitely a negative connotation to the word "complaint" that can't really be shaken off, and I imagine it does have an effect on staff members who see a new "complaint" pop up on however their end of the request tool looks.

Also, "complaints" are always oriented around the problem being complained about; "feedback" is more oriented around reaching an agreeable solution. I think that (to use Pariah's example) if a player wants to complain about not getting a blue inix, they should probably also be encouraged to seek a solution rather than seek compensation, like so:

Request: I would like a blue inix.
Staffer: No we don't make custom color inixes for people.
Feedback: I felt disregarded and underappreciated when I was completely shut down over my efforts to get a blue inix. I had bought blue paint and spent an IC month learning how to paint inixes. What would you suggest we do in the future to prevent this from happening again?
Response by committee members/staff: In the future, you may want to consider stating your intentions so that your staff member can support you before you start your RP efforts to get what you want. We apologize for the fact that this ended up being a waste of your character's time.

I imagine with the help of the player committee, complaints already have been treated as feedback, because of how they have informed discussions about changes to the game. Soliciting feedback specifically would make this a team effort with the rest of the players. Then complaints should be reserved specifically for reporting suspected violations of staff rules, in much the same way that player complaints are reserved for reporting violations of game rules rather than critique of play.

[Usiku]

Perhaps I might perceive the situation a bit differently than others. In my mind, there have been fewer 'frivolous' complaints than this thread indicates. Many have been minor (or 'trivial'), yet being minor doesn't diminish their importance or validity. Ideally, all staff complaints would be minor, it could be an excellent indicator of improvement. Minor complaints tend to be simpler to address and are often less emotionally charged too. Regardless of the magnitude of the issues raised in these complaints, almost all have highlighted something valuable for us to consider, be it related to game design, community dynamics, cultural context, or communication. I want to make sure no one feels discouraged from voicing their concerns due to the sentiments expressed in this discussion. Although I appreciate wizturbo's suggestion to reflect for 24 hours to process and see if you still want to submit it, it's a good idea.

[Patuk]

Thank you for weighing in, Usiku. It's good to know that there is room to consider these complaints and the people behind them legitimate, even when most may not point at anything so dire that it warrants real trouble.

[dumbstruck]

Perhaps I might perceive the situation a bit differently than others. In my mind, there have been fewer 'frivolous' complaints than this thread indicates. Many have been minor (or 'trivial'), yet being minor doesn't diminish their importance or validity. Ideally, all staff complaints would be minor, it could be an excellent indicator of improvement. Minor complaints tend to be simpler to address and are often less emotionally charged too. Regardless of the magnitude of the issues raised in these complaints, almost all have highlighted something valuable for us to consider, be it related to game design, community dynamics, cultural context, or communication. I want to make sure no one feels discouraged from voicing their concerns due to the sentiments expressed in this discussion. Although I appreciate wizturbo's suggestion to reflect for 24 hours to process and see if you still want to submit it, it's a good idea.

Thank you for sharing this. I share your perspective that even the complaints that could be classed as minor or trivial are no less valid for it. And frankly, it's really welcome and appreciated to see someone treat these with gravity. My primary for bringing up the 'staff feedback' option is less that I think there are complaints that are invalid, and more that I know that seeing numerous complaints can be dispiriting, and knowing that some are not even categorized properly as such but categorized there as a stopgap it seemed like one of the best and biggest ways to cut down on staff complaint in light of hearing this, might be to add an option to the request tool that allowed for things intended to be something else but shoehorned there for lack of better options, to be categorized where the user intended them.

In a scenario where people are actively disengaging due to the perceived negativity of players, encouraging what could be viewed as neutral feedback under a different heading as a complaint might actually make a difference over the long term, I think, in a scenario where morale drain can be cobbled from a death of a thousand paper cuts.

[Usiku]

I will say that we do have a 'general question' type category I think? Some players do opt to use this for 'feedback' type requests (although sometimes they get shifted over to the complaint category afterwards). We're not against this, although I can see there is probably merit in making such an option more official.

[Pariah]

While I enjoyed my peek behind the curtain, with the caveats I already mentioned...

I will say that the PC felt like an overcorrection.  We went from pure dictatorship to a dictatorship that act like a false democracy.

At the end of the day the Producers still do what the producers are gonna do.  I actually had a few times where I swayed them but I felt like I was playing an influence game more than actually having any real power, if anything I just had access to instant ask/response that you don't have when you go through the request tool.

I'm of the opinion that they should add a general feedback and keep complaints for serious business, like Usiku staff sent me that she hates me and spawned four silt horrors in my room and paralysed me type shit and less, "ouch my feelings".

They overcorrected, so the shit with Shaloonosh came to light, they were probably equally appalled and upset about it as we were and took drastic measures.  I think the shoot everything to the PC for review is one of those overcorrections, maybe with adding more categories for just regular discussion of those feeling type things would balance the boat and stop it from listing off the edge of the waterfall of nonesense.

[wizturbo]

We have power as potential whistleblowers.  That's partly why I started this thread, to let players know what's behind the curtain from my honest perspective.  Our job is to represent our fellow players to insure everything is on the up and up, and hopefully provide some good advice to staff at the same time.  Bridge builders.  I don't think randomly selected people should have any 'power' beyond this.

[Usiku]

Usiku staff sent me that she hates me and spawned four silt horrors in my room and paralysed me.

Dude, you promised you weren't gonna tell anyone about that! 

[Kiyetal]

10+ staff, 5+ on the player committee, 5+ mods, forum helpers. Most days I don't even see this many people logged into the game.

I think all the bureaucracy and committee nonsense is a waste of time and effort. Devote that much energy to obtaining new players and active staffers and it would be better spent.

[Krath]

Perhaps I might perceive the situation a bit differently than others. In my mind, there have been fewer 'frivolous' complaints than this thread indicates. Many have been minor (or 'trivial'), yet being minor doesn't diminish their importance or validity. Ideally, all staff complaints would be minor, it could be an excellent indicator of improvement. Minor complaints tend to be simpler to address and are often less emotionally charged too. Regardless of the magnitude of the issues raised in these complaints, almost all have highlighted something valuable for us to consider, be it related to game design, community dynamics, cultural context, or communication. I want to make sure no one feels discouraged from voicing their concerns due to the sentiments expressed in this discussion. Although I appreciate wizturbo's suggestion to reflect for 24 hours to process and see if you still want to submit it, it's a good idea.

My opinion is basically this.

[Lotion]

For me the most important purpose of APC is to allow players to have better oversight over staff and create a sort of transparency layer. If a specific staffer has many complaints that form a pattern then APC would notice and make sure the producers do something about it. In the case of a staffer doing something really egregiously not okay without the producers properly addressing imo it's the duty of APC to blow the whistle and make sure everyone knows. I haven't done that yet which means no such incident has occurred.

The APC can fulfill this purpose if and only if the producers do not conceal any player complaints from the APC. In this way it is necessary to trust them, as it would be possible for the producers to conceal a player complaing from the APC. Currently when a player complaint is made a producer will create a new text channel in the APC Discord server with the contents of the complaint. It is possible that all three producers could conspire to conceal a player complaint but I think this is very unlikely to happen.

Here is some information about how APC operates that I think the world should know (unordered):

• Whenever a producer wants to send a reply to a complaint they will post a draft of what they want to write and then members of the APC will offer feedback on the the reply.
• The original complaint is pinned, as is anything staff or the player who make the request send in the request.
• Usiku and Brokkr frequently disagree, and I think this is very good.

It takes a LOT of time for APC to do its thing. I don't think this is a permanent solution, but I think this is a big step in a right direction.

[Usiku]

Usiku and Brokkr frequently disagree, and I think this is very good.

This made me chuckle. 

[kahuna]

Does the player committee only care about players voicing their concerns with the request tool? Arm has historically had an issue with people "speaking up" if you will, anonymous complaints would help and there have been plenty of those over the years in various places not here or the player tool. If all you worry about is responding to requests or people participating here you're missing out on what the true problem with arm is.

[Lotion]

Does the player committee only care about players voicing their concerns with the request tool? Arm has historically had an issue with people "speaking up" if you will, anonymous complaints would help and there have been plenty of those over the years in various places not here or the player tool.

When a staff complaint is made in the request tool the APC is given the privilege of reading it and sharing their opinion on it. The complaints are anonymized insofar as the account name and the names of involved characters are all replaced with placeholders, most often CharacterA. The other complains you speak of are outside the scope of APC.

If all you worry about is responding to requests or people participating here you're missing out on what the true problem with arm is.

There are many problems with arm and I believe the APC can reduce the amount of problems, but it cannot lead to a solution of every problem in arm. But you strangely refer to "the true problem with arm" as if there is a singular truth. Do you wish to share it?

[kahuna]

There are many problems with arm and I believe the APC can reduce the amount of problems, but it cannot lead to a solution of every problem in arm. But you strangely refer to "the true problem with arm" as if there is a singular truth. Do you wish to share it?

There aren't that many problems really. It has been summed up plenty over the years. Arm tends to not learn from history. Historically, players have been valued less than staff. Historically staff have engaged in pkilling players with unstoppable avatars. Historically players have made a separate forum where they were subsequently banned for participating in. So really it's Arm not learning from the mistakes of its past more or less.

[Pariah]

There are many problems with arm and I believe the APC can reduce the amount of problems, but it cannot lead to a solution of every problem in arm. But you strangely refer to "the true problem with arm" as if there is a singular truth. Do you wish to share it?

There aren't that many problems really. It has been summed up plenty over the years. Arm tends to not learn from history. Historically, players have been valued less than staff. Historically staff have engaged in pkilling players with unstoppable avatars. Historically players have made a separate forum where they were subsequently banned for participating in. So really it's Arm not learning from the mistakes of its past more or less.

I don't think you're banned for participating in it.  I think you're banned when you give out IC info they expect you to keep sekret.

You just can't go spew out the spell list of your mages over there and expect to be free from consiquences.

[Lizzie]

There aren't that many problems really. It has been summed up plenty over the years. Arm tends to not learn from history. Historically, players have been valued less than staff. Historically staff have engaged in pkilling players with unstoppable avatars. Historically players have made a separate forum where they were subsequently banned for participating in. So really it's Arm not learning from the mistakes of its past more or less.

Currently, players are valued so much higher than staff, that some staff members have burnt out bending over backward to accommodate the needs of the players and quit staff over it. So you can uncheck that box.

Currently, an avatar is the staff member's "staff" persona. A staff member's PC is a PC, and a staff member's NPCs are NPCs.  So if you mean the staff is PKing players, it just isn't happening. If you mean the PC is killing other PCs, well - they're not unstoppable and they have the same privileges and restrictions and rules as any other player. If you mean NPCs, sometimes mistakes happen, but unless the player has done something grievously wrong ICly or arranged for death instead of storage, it isn't done intentionally. So you can uncheck that box.

Currently, to my knowledge, there is no new forum being created, and the forum you refer to hasn't seen more than I think 15 posts in the last 3 months. There's nothing current in there that anyone would be banned from playing Arm over.  So you can uncheck that box.

It seems to me that Arm has most definitely learned from history.

[Riev]

I don't think you're banned for participating in it.  I think you're banned when you give out IC info they expect you to keep sekret.

You just can't go spew out the spell list of your mages over there and expect to be free from consiquences.

Unfortunately this is historically incorrect. I was banned and stripped of Karma for participating in conversation about Armageddon in a different venue. I was told I would get my Karma back after <x> amount of time no longer participating in conversations.

[Pariah]

I don't think you're banned for participating in it.  I think you're banned when you give out IC info they expect you to keep sekret.

You just can't go spew out the spell list of your mages over there and expect to be free from consiquences.

Unfortunately this is historically incorrect. I was banned and stripped of Karma for participating in conversation about Armageddon in a different venue. I was told I would get my Karma back after <x> amount of time no longer participating in conversations.

Was that under the current "Regime" of Usiku, Brokkr and Halaster?  Or we talking the "twisted" times of Shaloonosh etc?

If you haven't yet, I would put in a request to see about that with the current folks, even though me and them go round and round about tact and kindness, they are overall a group of fair fuckers.

[kahuna]

It seems to me that Arm has most definitely learned from history.

I personally don't believe this is true. My list was not thorough or complete, simply a few examples of Arms history and past of which you cannot bring any detail to light on these forums or risk a ban.