My Experience on the Player Committee

[wizturbo]

I think there's a big difference between requests and complaints though.  As someone mentioned before, having a 'feedback' option on the request tool instead of a 'complaint' option might be helpful.  Having a direct line to the producers to share your thoughts, without requiring a formal complaint, would be nice.

[CirclelessBard]

I would stop it from being EVERY staff complaint.  I trust them enough to bring the actual complaints that have merit before the PC, but as I said, 99.9% of them were a waste of time to us, and staff has better shit to do.

I think the committee functions pretty well, but the one change I'd like to see is actually raising the bar on what requires the involvement of the producers to address.  Like having only 1 producer work on a complaint unless it seems serious, or maybe even close a complaint all together if we (the player committee) unanimously agrees it doesn't require action.  I would still want to record the complaint in our archives in case a pattern emerges down the line, it isn't an 'ignore this complaint' button, but rather send a pre-written response to cut down on all the administrative burden and back and forth discussion on a complaint that doesn't warrant it.

I don't see how staff unanimously deciding which staff complaints have merit would be any different from the pre-committee days, but I do like the idea of staff de-prioritizing or closing complaints based on unanimous committee feedback. I think there is still a lot of value in treating even "frivolous" complaints with care because what might seem frivolous to one person may be frustration after months of IC effort and coordination to another.

I do agree with the sentiment of having a separate "feedback" request. There is something to be said in the real world for treating complaints as, essentially, unsolicited feedback: something to potentially learn from and improve, rather than interpret as an attack. At the same time, there's definitely a negative connotation to the word "complaint" that can't really be shaken off, and I imagine it does have an effect on staff members who see a new "complaint" pop up on however their end of the request tool looks.

Also, "complaints" are always oriented around the problem being complained about; "feedback" is more oriented around reaching an agreeable solution. I think that (to use Pariah's example) if a player wants to complain about not getting a blue inix, they should probably also be encouraged to seek a solution rather than seek compensation, like so:

Request: I would like a blue inix.
Staffer: No we don't make custom color inixes for people.
Feedback: I felt disregarded and underappreciated when I was completely shut down over my efforts to get a blue inix. I had bought blue paint and spent an IC month learning how to paint inixes. What would you suggest we do in the future to prevent this from happening again?
Response by committee members/staff: In the future, you may want to consider stating your intentions so that your staff member can support you before you start your RP efforts to get what you want. We apologize for the fact that this ended up being a waste of your character's time.

I imagine with the help of the player committee, complaints already have been treated as feedback, because of how they have informed discussions about changes to the game. Soliciting feedback specifically would make this a team effort with the rest of the players. Then complaints should be reserved specifically for reporting suspected violations of staff rules, in much the same way that player complaints are reserved for reporting violations of game rules rather than critique of play.

[Usiku]

Perhaps I might perceive the situation a bit differently than others. In my mind, there have been fewer 'frivolous' complaints than this thread indicates. Many have been minor (or 'trivial'), yet being minor doesn't diminish their importance or validity. Ideally, all staff complaints would be minor, it could be an excellent indicator of improvement. Minor complaints tend to be simpler to address and are often less emotionally charged too. Regardless of the magnitude of the issues raised in these complaints, almost all have highlighted something valuable for us to consider, be it related to game design, community dynamics, cultural context, or communication. I want to make sure no one feels discouraged from voicing their concerns due to the sentiments expressed in this discussion. Although I appreciate wizturbo's suggestion to reflect for 24 hours to process and see if you still want to submit it, it's a good idea.

[Patuk]

Thank you for weighing in, Usiku. It's good to know that there is room to consider these complaints and the people behind them legitimate, even when most may not point at anything so dire that it warrants real trouble.

[dumbstruck]

Perhaps I might perceive the situation a bit differently than others. In my mind, there have been fewer 'frivolous' complaints than this thread indicates. Many have been minor (or 'trivial'), yet being minor doesn't diminish their importance or validity. Ideally, all staff complaints would be minor, it could be an excellent indicator of improvement. Minor complaints tend to be simpler to address and are often less emotionally charged too. Regardless of the magnitude of the issues raised in these complaints, almost all have highlighted something valuable for us to consider, be it related to game design, community dynamics, cultural context, or communication. I want to make sure no one feels discouraged from voicing their concerns due to the sentiments expressed in this discussion. Although I appreciate wizturbo's suggestion to reflect for 24 hours to process and see if you still want to submit it, it's a good idea.

Thank you for sharing this. I share your perspective that even the complaints that could be classed as minor or trivial are no less valid for it. And frankly, it's really welcome and appreciated to see someone treat these with gravity. My primary for bringing up the 'staff feedback' option is less that I think there are complaints that are invalid, and more that I know that seeing numerous complaints can be dispiriting, and knowing that some are not even categorized properly as such but categorized there as a stopgap it seemed like one of the best and biggest ways to cut down on staff complaint in light of hearing this, might be to add an option to the request tool that allowed for things intended to be something else but shoehorned there for lack of better options, to be categorized where the user intended them.

In a scenario where people are actively disengaging due to the perceived negativity of players, encouraging what could be viewed as neutral feedback under a different heading as a complaint might actually make a difference over the long term, I think, in a scenario where morale drain can be cobbled from a death of a thousand paper cuts.

[Usiku]

I will say that we do have a 'general question' type category I think? Some players do opt to use this for 'feedback' type requests (although sometimes they get shifted over to the complaint category afterwards). We're not against this, although I can see there is probably merit in making such an option more official.

[Pariah]

While I enjoyed my peek behind the curtain, with the caveats I already mentioned...

I will say that the PC felt like an overcorrection.  We went from pure dictatorship to a dictatorship that act like a false democracy.

At the end of the day the Producers still do what the producers are gonna do.  I actually had a few times where I swayed them but I felt like I was playing an influence game more than actually having any real power, if anything I just had access to instant ask/response that you don't have when you go through the request tool.

I'm of the opinion that they should add a general feedback and keep complaints for serious business, like Usiku staff sent me that she hates me and spawned four silt horrors in my room and paralysed me type shit and less, "ouch my feelings".

They overcorrected, so the shit with Shaloonosh came to light, they were probably equally appalled and upset about it as we were and took drastic measures.  I think the shoot everything to the PC for review is one of those overcorrections, maybe with adding more categories for just regular discussion of those feeling type things would balance the boat and stop it from listing off the edge of the waterfall of nonesense.

[wizturbo]

We have power as potential whistleblowers.  That's partly why I started this thread, to let players know what's behind the curtain from my honest perspective.  Our job is to represent our fellow players to insure everything is on the up and up, and hopefully provide some good advice to staff at the same time.  Bridge builders.  I don't think randomly selected people should have any 'power' beyond this.

[Usiku]

Usiku staff sent me that she hates me and spawned four silt horrors in my room and paralysed me.

Dude, you promised you weren't gonna tell anyone about that! 

[Kiyetal]

10+ staff, 5+ on the player committee, 5+ mods, forum helpers. Most days I don't even see this many people logged into the game.

I think all the bureaucracy and committee nonsense is a waste of time and effort. Devote that much energy to obtaining new players and active staffers and it would be better spent.

[Krath]

Perhaps I might perceive the situation a bit differently than others. In my mind, there have been fewer 'frivolous' complaints than this thread indicates. Many have been minor (or 'trivial'), yet being minor doesn't diminish their importance or validity. Ideally, all staff complaints would be minor, it could be an excellent indicator of improvement. Minor complaints tend to be simpler to address and are often less emotionally charged too. Regardless of the magnitude of the issues raised in these complaints, almost all have highlighted something valuable for us to consider, be it related to game design, community dynamics, cultural context, or communication. I want to make sure no one feels discouraged from voicing their concerns due to the sentiments expressed in this discussion. Although I appreciate wizturbo's suggestion to reflect for 24 hours to process and see if you still want to submit it, it's a good idea.

My opinion is basically this.

[Lotion]

For me the most important purpose of APC is to allow players to have better oversight over staff and create a sort of transparency layer. If a specific staffer has many complaints that form a pattern then APC would notice and make sure the producers do something about it. In the case of a staffer doing something really egregiously not okay without the producers properly addressing imo it's the duty of APC to blow the whistle and make sure everyone knows. I haven't done that yet which means no such incident has occurred.

The APC can fulfill this purpose if and only if the producers do not conceal any player complaints from the APC. In this way it is necessary to trust them, as it would be possible for the producers to conceal a player complaing from the APC. Currently when a player complaint is made a producer will create a new text channel in the APC Discord server with the contents of the complaint. It is possible that all three producers could conspire to conceal a player complaint but I think this is very unlikely to happen.

Here is some information about how APC operates that I think the world should know (unordered):

• Whenever a producer wants to send a reply to a complaint they will post a draft of what they want to write and then members of the APC will offer feedback on the the reply.
• The original complaint is pinned, as is anything staff or the player who make the request send in the request.
• Usiku and Brokkr frequently disagree, and I think this is very good.

It takes a LOT of time for APC to do its thing. I don't think this is a permanent solution, but I think this is a big step in a right direction.

[Usiku]

Usiku and Brokkr frequently disagree, and I think this is very good.

This made me chuckle. 

[kahuna]

Does the player committee only care about players voicing their concerns with the request tool? Arm has historically had an issue with people "speaking up" if you will, anonymous complaints would help and there have been plenty of those over the years in various places not here or the player tool. If all you worry about is responding to requests or people participating here you're missing out on what the true problem with arm is.

[Lotion]

Does the player committee only care about players voicing their concerns with the request tool? Arm has historically had an issue with people "speaking up" if you will, anonymous complaints would help and there have been plenty of those over the years in various places not here or the player tool.

When a staff complaint is made in the request tool the APC is given the privilege of reading it and sharing their opinion on it. The complaints are anonymized insofar as the account name and the names of involved characters are all replaced with placeholders, most often CharacterA. The other complains you speak of are outside the scope of APC.

If all you worry about is responding to requests or people participating here you're missing out on what the true problem with arm is.

There are many problems with arm and I believe the APC can reduce the amount of problems, but it cannot lead to a solution of every problem in arm. But you strangely refer to "the true problem with arm" as if there is a singular truth. Do you wish to share it?

[kahuna]

There are many problems with arm and I believe the APC can reduce the amount of problems, but it cannot lead to a solution of every problem in arm. But you strangely refer to "the true problem with arm" as if there is a singular truth. Do you wish to share it?

There aren't that many problems really. It has been summed up plenty over the years. Arm tends to not learn from history. Historically, players have been valued less than staff. Historically staff have engaged in pkilling players with unstoppable avatars. Historically players have made a separate forum where they were subsequently banned for participating in. So really it's Arm not learning from the mistakes of its past more or less.

[Pariah]

There are many problems with arm and I believe the APC can reduce the amount of problems, but it cannot lead to a solution of every problem in arm. But you strangely refer to "the true problem with arm" as if there is a singular truth. Do you wish to share it?

There aren't that many problems really. It has been summed up plenty over the years. Arm tends to not learn from history. Historically, players have been valued less than staff. Historically staff have engaged in pkilling players with unstoppable avatars. Historically players have made a separate forum where they were subsequently banned for participating in. So really it's Arm not learning from the mistakes of its past more or less.

I don't think you're banned for participating in it.  I think you're banned when you give out IC info they expect you to keep sekret.

You just can't go spew out the spell list of your mages over there and expect to be free from consiquences.

[Lizzie]

There aren't that many problems really. It has been summed up plenty over the years. Arm tends to not learn from history. Historically, players have been valued less than staff. Historically staff have engaged in pkilling players with unstoppable avatars. Historically players have made a separate forum where they were subsequently banned for participating in. So really it's Arm not learning from the mistakes of its past more or less.

Currently, players are valued so much higher than staff, that some staff members have burnt out bending over backward to accommodate the needs of the players and quit staff over it. So you can uncheck that box.

Currently, an avatar is the staff member's "staff" persona. A staff member's PC is a PC, and a staff member's NPCs are NPCs.  So if you mean the staff is PKing players, it just isn't happening. If you mean the PC is killing other PCs, well - they're not unstoppable and they have the same privileges and restrictions and rules as any other player. If you mean NPCs, sometimes mistakes happen, but unless the player has done something grievously wrong ICly or arranged for death instead of storage, it isn't done intentionally. So you can uncheck that box.

Currently, to my knowledge, there is no new forum being created, and the forum you refer to hasn't seen more than I think 15 posts in the last 3 months. There's nothing current in there that anyone would be banned from playing Arm over.  So you can uncheck that box.

It seems to me that Arm has most definitely learned from history.

[Riev]

I don't think you're banned for participating in it.  I think you're banned when you give out IC info they expect you to keep sekret.

You just can't go spew out the spell list of your mages over there and expect to be free from consiquences.

Unfortunately this is historically incorrect. I was banned and stripped of Karma for participating in conversation about Armageddon in a different venue. I was told I would get my Karma back after <x> amount of time no longer participating in conversations.

[Pariah]

I don't think you're banned for participating in it.  I think you're banned when you give out IC info they expect you to keep sekret.

You just can't go spew out the spell list of your mages over there and expect to be free from consiquences.

Unfortunately this is historically incorrect. I was banned and stripped of Karma for participating in conversation about Armageddon in a different venue. I was told I would get my Karma back after <x> amount of time no longer participating in conversations.

Was that under the current "Regime" of Usiku, Brokkr and Halaster?  Or we talking the "twisted" times of Shaloonosh etc?

If you haven't yet, I would put in a request to see about that with the current folks, even though me and them go round and round about tact and kindness, they are overall a group of fair fuckers.

[kahuna]

It seems to me that Arm has most definitely learned from history.

I personally don't believe this is true. My list was not thorough or complete, simply a few examples of Arms history and past of which you cannot bring any detail to light on these forums or risk a ban.