Suggestion: Stealth Roll + Poison

[LindseyBalboa]

Allow poison to use a 'stealth' modifier.

Open up options to use poison while at a tea party, tavern, private meeting, or any engagement with food/drink.

Any maluses against stealth apply.

Any bonuses to stealth apply.

Either check for stealth and then poison, or check for stealth and then stealth+poison.

Poison only has to be in the inventory to use the stealth modifier, allowing the poisoner to use stow/palm on poisons.

poison food/drink (poison object) stealth

Crit success - no detection and poison effect is enhanced - quick acting poisons act a little more quickly, and slow-acting poisons are delayed a little longer.

Success - food/drink is poisoned with no detection.

Fail1 - something threw off the attempt. food/drink are not poisoned. no detection.

Fail2 - the poison missed or didn't take correctly. poison is removed. food/drink are not poisoned.
          -reasoning: to me this is similar to an npc noticing a theft attempt, but not knowing who did it. without a targeted npc for the action, removal of the poison object seemed fitting as it essentially kills the act unless the poisoner can leave and return, sleight of hand new poison out and try again, or if they're risking multiple poison objects in their inventory for anyone to peek at.

Crit Fail - everyone in the room notices you trying to slip something into food/drink. poison removed. food/drink are not poisoned. detected.

[mansa]

I assume this idea is because:

Currently, to poison an item, your character needs to be standing, with a poison item in their hand, and it echos to the room.

[Pariah]

I agree something like this should be a thing.

Right now it takes a perfect storm to be able to poison food/water and get an intended target.

[Synthesis]

Nah. Poison is already super annoying. This would only encourage pointless fuckery.

[Pariah]

Nah. Poison is already super annoying. This would only encourage pointless fuckery.

Killing people is never pointless.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

I like stuff that allows for intrigue like this. Which servant put the poison in? Or what noble? Plus, it adds some realism. If I'm gonna try and poison someone, I'm not gonna just dump a vial of liquid on their plate right in front of everyone before I hand it to them.

[Pariah]

I like stuff that allows for intrigue like this. Which servant put the poison in? Or what noble? Plus, it adds some realism. If I'm gonna try and poison someone, I'm not gonna just dump a vial of liquid on their plate right in front of everyone before I hand it to them.

Yeah but in the game currently, say you want to poison the cask some noble is bringing to a party.

You'd have to sneak into the estate to do it and you can't codedly because the estate is impenetrable.

So you'd have to have the perfect storm of events that allow you to get away with poison food/drink and actually get it back to the person or place without anyone noticing.

It would make more sense for poisoning to be like the dudes who roofie people in bars, they just slide in, distract, sprinkle, walk off.

[Riev]

I have seen people go to a bar, order shots, poison them, then hide them in their cloak, so they can Sleight of Hand the poisoned one before giving it to someone. Which at the time made sense, because the same Class/Guild that had master poisoning also had master sleight.

That is not NECESSARILY true now, and also here's a scenario:

Tor's Aide is at a function, and told to slip some sleeping juice into Fale's wine. Tor's Aide goes to Sneakytown to acquire some sleeping juice in a vial, suitable for poisoning a drink. The only access the aide will have to the wine goblet is AT the party. Why not allow for a stealth roll to empty the vial into the goblet, etc?

There are balance issues to consider, but I'm for the application of <poison> vials to food and drink allow for a stealthy attempt.

[Pariah]

The only balance to consider is the imbalance of your stomach after I terradin you!

[Riev]

The only balance to consider is the imbalance of your stomach after I terradin you!

Look. I played a SPECIAL APPLICATION vivaduan in Allanak whose entire purpose was to explore poison and cure vials. Absolutely nobody would buy them (both because ew vivaduan, but also because 'vials suck').

It wasn't until after I stored that PC that different shaped vials came out, and poison was re-worked to have 'containers' rather than specifically either vials or poison objects.

I wanted, so very badly, for people to come to me and ask for poison vials to poison food and drink. It literally never happened. I am for this change if only so that once in a while, someone can be actually poisoned.

[Synthesis]

Nah. Poison is already super annoying. This would only encourage pointless fuckery.

Killing people is never pointless.

Wrong.

[dumbstruck]

Nah. Poison is already super annoying. This would only encourage pointless fuckery.

Killing people is never pointless.

Wrong.

This. Back in 2010, there was no Kadian agent for nearly a month. Someone got through a role call (LOL again, just open the fucking roles up but I digress), took another week to get set up. And then finally got in the game.

And at about 4 hours played someone pked them.

Tell me about how this guy deserved it?

The person who did it didn't wish up or anything either. It was a 'check on the role call that just got in in the last 36 hours, omg why is this a fucking corpse' situation.

That was one of the most OOC inconsiderate PKs I have ever seen to this day. Every person who was waiting for 3 weeks, got to wait another. Presumably. Only they didn't. They gave the role to someone else who had applied (again, never saw one of these that didn't have multiple applicants), but tell me doing that shit with the knowledge it might be an entire IC year of time with no Kadian agent available was more likely than not the fallout for the game and playerbase as a whole, some rando went in and just stabbed this guy that they didn't know, who wasn't embroiled in plots of their own already, none of that. Just a waste of time.

[Synthesis]

Nah. Poison is already super annoying. This would only encourage pointless fuckery.

Killing people is never pointless.

Wrong.

This. Back in 2010, there was no Kadian agent for nearly a month. Someone got through a role call (LOL again, just open the fucking roles up but I digress), took another week to get set up. And then finally got in the game.

And at about 4 hours played someone pked them.

Tell me about how this guy deserved it?

The person who did it didn't wish up or anything either. It was a 'check on the role call that just got in in the last 36 hours, omg why is this a fucking corpse' situation.

That was one of the most OOC inconsiderate PKs I have ever seen to this day. Every person who was waiting for 3 weeks, got to wait another. Presumably. Only they didn't. They gave the role to someone else who had applied (again, never saw one of these that didn't have multiple applicants), but tell me doing that shit with the knowledge it might be an entire IC year of time with no Kadian agent available was more likely than not the fallout for the game and playerbase as a whole, some rando went in and just stabbed this guy that they didn't know, who wasn't embroiled in plots of their own already, none of that. Just a waste of time.

That was probably me.  It wasn't planned.  I was just playing a shitbag mugger, so I was hanging around at night looking for someone to gank, and along comes some dude walking around alone at night in silks, and I ganked him purely for the coins. I didn't realize it was a Kadian family member until I saw the ring on the corpse, and I was like "lol I am in sooooo much trouble now."

But yeah, totally valid example of a pointless PK.  And I say it's pointless not because it was necessarily bad RP (although what I did in the aftermath of that was...oof...epic cringe), but because it's exactly the kind of thing that could just be left in the background narrative. Like yeah, gritty harsh yadda yadda dangerous streets at night, whatever...but as a matter of storytelling, that could've just been a vNPC story that someone made up as a tall tale at the bar.

[Kaathe]

OP suggestion is good because in the new poison system it would take multiple PCs and many skill checks to produce a potent poison, get it into the party, and pull off the poison all before the potency decays. That's good plotting and it's highly unlikely anyone would die from it unless they were completely without access to healers or cures.  But it'd definitely send a message and put people on edge when drinking and eating stuff other people handle.  That's good.

[Kaathe]

Nah. Poison is already super annoying. This would only encourage pointless fuckery.

Is it annoying PvE or have you actually had to deal with it in PvP?

Mobs get it for free at decent potency and respawn.  I can see that being annoying. But I don't think many have died from PvP poison since the changes came out. And I've not heard of any dying directly from poison itself afaik.  I keep a causal but not perfect eye on poison deaths.

[Synthesis]

Nah. Poison is already super annoying. This would only encourage pointless fuckery.

Is it annoying PvE or have you actually had to deal with it in PvP?

Mobs get it for free at decent potency and respawn.  I can see that being annoying. But I don't think many have died from PvP poison since the changes came out. And I've not heard of any dying directly from poison itself afaik.  I keep a causal but not perfect eye on poison deaths.

When someone hits you with heramide or peraine, or you pass out from grishen, and then somebody chops you to death with an axe, does it register as a "chopped to death with axe" death, or a poison death?

[Kaathe]

Axe death, but have you tried to get enough potent poison into someone to do that? Or heard of anyone on receiving end?

I'll ask if we can get a PvP poison log so we have some hard data, but based on my experience, testing, and semi random monitoring I think you are more worried than you need to be. I could be wrong of course. I hate not having hard data because then it's all just anecdotes and feeeelings.

[whengravityfails]

Just wanted to say that I like this idea a lot and it would make consumable poisons a lot more useful and would certainly liven up parties and noble soirees.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

I like stuff that allows for intrigue like this. Which servant put the poison in? Or what noble? Plus, it adds some realism. If I'm gonna try and poison someone, I'm not gonna just dump a vial of liquid on their plate right in front of everyone before I hand it to them.

Yeah but in the game currently, say you want to poison the cask some noble is bringing to a party.

You'd have to sneak into the estate to do it and you can't codedly because the estate is impenetrable.

So you'd have to have the perfect storm of events that allow you to get away with poison food/drink and actually get it back to the person or place without anyone noticing.

It would make more sense for poisoning to be like the dudes who roofie people in bars, they just slide in, distract, sprinkle, walk off.

I think we are agreeing. This is a good idea, right?

[Fredd]

OP suggestion is good because in the new poison system it would take multiple PCs and many skill checks to produce a potent poison, get it into the party, and pull off the poison all before the potency decays. That's good plotting and it's highly unlikely anyone would die from it unless they were completely without access to healers or cures.  But it'd definitely send a message and put people on edge when drinking and eating stuff other people handle.  That's good.

that's what I was thinking.

I've always wanted this in the game, and it would give more use for sleight of hand skills, which could bring more viability into the thievery side of things.

You could even make a "poisoner" out of Miscreant +Physician, and that sounds pretty fun IMHO.

And it will make master Watch even more valuable for leaders to have on their side during events.

[Inks]

Nah, don't do this ever please. Thanks. Next they will ask to reload blowguns stealthily.

[Fredd]

Nah, don't do this ever please. Thanks. Next they will ask to reload blowguns stealthily.

that's a different thing entirely and you know it.