Restrictions to Guild/Subguild Based on Race

[Classclown]

Desert hide doesn't even make any sense. What are you hiding behind? Are you under the sand?

[LindseyBalboa]

I lied, maybe this is my last thought.

The Desert Elf Outpost is a city, set city, and requires city-stealth to sneak around in.

Desert elves spend a lot of time in the Desert Elf Outpost.

Many of them have members that live inside the Desert Elf Outpost.

How do none of these desert elves learn to be stealthy?

Do none of them go back and share this knowledge?

This just doesn't make any sense, lore-wise, for it to be black and white. They're not evolutionarily unable to sneak in cities. It doesn't take 10 years to learn to blend into a crowd. It doesn't even take 3 months.

[Pariah]

Desert hide doesn't even make any sense. What are you hiding behind? Are you under the sand?

The desert isn't just flat sand, it's ripples from wind and sandstorms that have settled, maybe they are hiding behind a dune, watching you.

[dumbstruck]

Half-giants, as a race, should all get city listen so they can listen in when the bar is full or they're too big for a table.

Dune Traders should also get city listen, they travel between the cities/outposts. They would be the news reporters/gossip spreaders/information mongers of the Known.

Yes, please, and city listen would make more sense for a dune trader than wild listen for that reason, in addition, this would ENCOURAGE PEOPLE to sit at bars or tables to talk and practice it.

I also love the half-giant idea and makes great sense from playability alone.

[Jimpka_Moss]

As it is now, I like it.

[Classclown]

Desert hide doesn't even make any sense. What are you hiding behind? Are you under the sand?

The desert isn't just flat sand, it's ripples from wind and sandstorms that have settled, maybe they are hiding behind a dune, watching you.

Okay, but I would still see them as soon as they left the dune to backstab me. It'd be like the Geico commercial with the surveillance guy in the trash can.

[BadSkeelz]

Yes, in the 5000 odd years of recorded human history, there has never been a record of a successful ambush launched in the desert. /s


People can hide behind dunes, behind rocks, under the sand, in a small gully. You're unlikely to have panoramic vision a hundred yards out, and will have moments of distraction or otherwise loss of situational awareness that ambushers can exploit. Hiding and sneaking in the Desert makes a lot more sense than people stealthing out of sight in a brightly lit hallway in front of witnesses, which is peak City stealth.

[ShaiHulud]

My humble opinion on topic, or at least I hope...is...make subguilds more broad and versatile, race included. The more those you have, those combinations done to make fun for a player. The hard separation between city and wilderness is fine, but exceptions are fun too. Also, I think if you limit the guild/sub options by race, or any others, just makes for more gick subs out there, and not helping promote mundanes as many speak about.

To add, I think folks should be able to choose a sub that might be contrary to normal situation/life. Its a story. And from the numbers presented, its not a problem. Bad change imho.

[betweenford]

IIRC elf documentation is also kinda contradictory on how elves settle into this or that location, and simplifies it to agoraphobia and claustrophobia when its moreso a generalized fear of the unfamiliar and unknown. Tribes flit wherever their stomping grounds are regardless of environment within those grounds. Tribes settle all the time from the desert into the city and flee from the cities to the (immediate) wastes whenever things get too hot for the tribes. There are city elf tribes with documentation on them having specialized hunter roles. Limiting the reverse is weird.

[Suhuy]

I lied, maybe this is my last thought.

The Desert Elf Outpost is a city, set city, and requires city-stealth to sneak around in.

Desert elves spend a lot of time in the Desert Elf Outpost.

Many of them have members that live inside the Desert Elf Outpost.

How do none of these desert elves learn to be stealthy?

Do none of them go back and share this knowledge?

This just doesn't make any sense, lore-wise, for it to be black and white. They're not evolutionarily unable to sneak in cities. It doesn't take 10 years to learn to blend into a crowd. It doesn't even take 3 months.

Awesome example!! And there's hundreds more you could come up with like this.

This is why the only real explanation to the changes made is one that is OOC in nature, not IC. It's done for game balancing purposes, so each class, subclass and race has their own set of advantages and disadvantages.

And it's totally ok to say that! The issue is when you try and come up with some absurd IC explanation, one that easily falls apart after close examination of a few help files, clan docs, or even the mere existence of the Blackwing Outpost.

[Pariah]

I'd be curious for someone to prove it's heavily used.  Last time I went there the board was like six months out of date.

Also it's old as dirt and probably an oversight that it's considered city for sneak/hide purposes.  It would make more sense since it's filled with elves to be wilderness anyways.

[Suhuy]

I'd be curious for someone to prove it's heavily used.  Last time I went there the board was like six months out of date.

It doesn't matter if it's heavily used or not. It exists and thematically has an inconsistency if you're going to take wilderness vs city stealth literally. There's a good chance most delf camps have some rooms which require city stealth. That's where LindseyBalboa's point comes in. They can hide in a sand dune but after years of growing up in that camp NO ONE can figure out how to properly conceal themselves on that rocky path near the tents or inside the vast tribal pavilion etc? It just doesn't make sense. So rather than trying to explain it away with an IC logic that demonstrably does not exist, say it's for game balance and call it a day.

[betweenford]

Its used about every other day. Desert elves are furtive and dont like sharing secrets with every other tribe that walks into the outpost unless its like major news everyone would already know about anyways. And then on top of that they each have individual boards