Discussion of GMH's from Discord.

[Pariah]

So I know that lots of people either don't want to be active on discord or might be banned, so I figured that I'd share some of what was discuss on discord today.

As you know if you've actively playing the game, GMHs are in a bit of a slump right now, the reason cited everything from overbearing Templars to just being a straight boring unfun role and everything in between.

One thing that was brought up was that the limit per house of hunters/staff is a bit limiting.  So the idea was floated that instead of 2 hunters per house (6 total) why not have hunters be employed by all the GMHs and supply a central area, like a shared access warehouse for example (This part wasn't 100% cemented out yet.)

That way the hunters work for the GMHs as a group and there that opens up more RP possibilities with Salarr Kadius and Kurac to interact, bribe,sway, beg steal etc to get the hunters to do their bidding. (My take on it anyways).

And then we discussed various was to institute item dumps in the game, places where hunters/players could turn things in to get rid of them, versus carrying around the same two carcasses of scrabs for three RL days while they try to sell it either to stores or players.

Some ideas floated were:
1. Have a shop that buys everything but gives diminishing returns depending on how many of the thing they have, say a scrab shell is worth 30 sid, but after so many 25, after more 20 etc etc till it's down to one single sid for massive amounts in stock.  A way to get around the 5 only thing was to simply have the item disappear and not be available for sale in the vendor.  That way you never hit that hard coded limit that some warehouse NPCs hit due to having too many recipes.

2. Code a pc like the rock buyer in Allanak, just buys blocky stones ad nauseam and never turns away people.

3. And my original idea was to have something like a combination of both, but have it affect things outside the city.  Sell a scrab shell to the vendor it deletes the item but keeps track, the Trade Templar or merchant in charge (luirs) can then get a tally of all the food, hide, shell, bones, rocks (whatever categories) and that can influence things in town like, if not enough meat, people go hungry.  If not enough rocks, the buildings can't be maintained and look shoddy and possibly collapse, if not enough shell, armor production struggles, you get the idea.

Just figured it was worth a share here since some folks will never step food in the discord for one reason or another.

[askaran]

I really like the idea of NPCs that buy materials, like the rock buyers or the vendors in Tuluk who accept all sorts of different materials. That said, I also like the idea of having a collaboration between GMH and hunters, sort of like a clan, since the staff tried to do that already with the whole garrison thing, but really... and this is probably just me... each GMH should have their own hunter division like they used to. I remember when I was playing the first hunter in Kadius, the rivalry between houses was fun to play around with, even if it was never too serious. When working together, it made it a more fun/interesting experience, like when Kadius and Salaar teamed up to collect a certain piece of metal that fell down from the sky.

Being a merchant in the houses is cool, but when you're relying on unaffiliated hunters to fill your warehouse, it can get kinda iffy, especially when those hunters can just make better money elsewhere. And yeah, I just said that you can make better money elsewhere, but to me at least, playing as a hunter in one of the houses was always cool enough to offset that because you have a built-in crew, a base of operations, and you can always sell on the side anyway. Realistically, especially with corruption in the name, selling on the side as a hunter in either of the city-states shouldn't be too hard to manage. There are thousands of citizens in each city, and it's not like those motherfuckers are keeping receipts.

[askaran]

Tacking onto this as an afterthought, and drawing inspiration from an institution that is already in game. The Templar that buys obsidian/glass. You can only sell a certain number of each to them per day but it's a regular paycheck for people putting in the work. I don't know the coding implications of something like this for scrab/chalton/gortok/carru parts. But it's a system that seems to work well, at least in my experience.

[Lotion]

Why would the GMH suddenly all decide to to a bit of communism together? They are ruthlessly capitalist organizations.

[askaran]

Per the docs, or atleast from what I remember a long time back. They all make money off of eachother because they agree to stick to their own monopolies.

[SpyGuy]

One problem with sharing hunters is they all have different bosses.  So they're hired by different people likely in different time zones and with different goals.  In my experience hunter is rarely their only role and it generally makes more sense for the hunter PCs to travel and stay with their GMH leader.  I would much prefer the current role where you work closely under a GMH leader than a clan that's just focused on hunting.

That said the GMH share tons of space in Luir's and Tuluk.  There's absolutely nothing stopping PCs from better organizing hunters to train and hunt together.  If that hasn't been happening since their reopening then either no one has tried hard enough or the IC politics haven't allowed it.

[Kestria]

I think the idea of 'sharing hunters' could work in a 'one off basis', meaning, hey we really need some kryl shell, hey we do too, and saying our 2 hunters can work with your 2 hunters, and, split the kryl shell they come back with.
Having a hunter clan for GMH's is not wise, purely because you can already hear the arguments about why clan A hasn't got any sapphires but Clan B went into the 'communal material drop off' and took them all except 1.

[FamousAmos]

I think they tried that in the past and it didn't work out.

The Garrison still works with this concept but they're not an open clan.

[Riev]

Single hunters can be problematic when you need kryl shell and bahamet leather and long mek bones.

I think the idea is that you hire other indies to help, or the Byn to "escort" you while you do this (Byn cannot hunt themselves, but they can accompany a seasoned hunter).

I do like the idea of hunters doing a communal pile, but as said before.... different bosses, different needs. What happens when the Merchant Hunters are bringing in a bunch of gemstones and Kurac is in desperate need of sandsilk and spider fangs?

When I play a crafter, I try real hard to buy from PCs first. I try to pay out more than they would get selling it to a shop to incentivize selling to me and as a crafter I should, at some point, be able to afford that. The difficulty is when you do not share playtimes.


Maybe on Allanak's GMH path, and Tuluks new communist compound, there could be a public NPC that buys materials from people are 'reduced rates' and that inventory becomes available in a shared pool inside. For example: You sell a scrab shell to them for slightly less than the market normally buys. It becomes part of that NPCs inventory, but only GMH-flagged people can purchase from them. OR their inventory is dumped every RL hour into a non-save room that has to be sorted through or you lose it.

[Krath]

Or....hear me out with this unpopular opinion..we could allow the Byn, the Mercenary clan, to hunt and skin and solve this issue.

[Tailong]

Or a branch of the Byn designated to hiring out as hunters....

[SpyGuy]

I have hired Byn mercenaries to help on hunts I didn't want to do alone. And hired the Byn to do bigger jobs as escort to my hunter.  It can be a really fun RPT

[Pariah]

I think converting the Byn to hunters or adding hunters to their lineup would be awesome, but require a whole rewrite of their rules.

[Riev]

The thing is, the Byn can absolutely HELP you hunt, they just can't be hired to be the hunters themselves.
Consider them mercenary soldiers, some adept at killing and skinning their prey in the forest. They should still be out there guarding, or clearing the way for you to come through. Not doing the whole job.

The problem is then the Hunter and the Byn Unit have to be around at the same time, when you really just need 2 Troopers and a RedShirt Runner to go after those spiders.

[SpyGuy]

The thing is, the Byn can absolutely HELP you hunt, they just can't be hired to be the hunters themselves.
Consider them mercenary soldiers, some adept at killing and skinning their prey in the forest. They should still be out there guarding, or clearing the way for you to come through. Not doing the whole job.

The problem is then the Hunter and the Byn Unit have to be around at the same time, when you really just need 2 Troopers and a RedShirt Runner to go after those spiders.

Is it just unpopular to go Mercenary? Or difficult to do IC?  I've only known a few.

But yes, most Byn rules about jobs they can take can be gotten around by saying 'I'm hiring you to protect me while I do this thing'

[Pariah]

Yeah it always seemed like you'd be riding the line to hire the Byn to protect you WHILE you hunt.

Cause even though you're the one going out after that salt worm for instance, they are also fighting it with you.

So it seems like a way around the rule, but if that type of fence tightrope walking is allowed, then game on.

[Tailong]

The main issue with that is that a lone hunter cannot afford to pay the prices asked by some Sergeants ICly, but that's a whole different subject. GMH could afford said prices, just need to have a good profit margin and most hunts don't.

[DesertT]

As you know if you've actively playing the game, GMHs are in a bit of a slump right now, the reason cited everything from overbearing Templars to just being a straight boring unfun role and everything in between.

One thing that was brought up was that the limit per house of hunters/staff is a bit limiting.  So the idea was floated that instead of 2 hunters per house (6 total) why not have hunters be employed by all the GMHs and supply a central area, like a shared access warehouse for example (This part wasn't 100% cemented out yet.)

Some ideas floated were:
1. Have a shop that buys everything but gives diminishing returns depending on how many of the thing they have, say a scrab shell is worth 30 sid, but after so many 25, after more 20 etc etc till it's down to one single sid for massive amounts in stock.  A way to get around the 5 only thing was to simply have the item disappear and not be available for sale in the vendor.  That way you never hit that hard coded limit that some warehouse NPCs hit due to having too many recipes.

2. Code a pc like the rock buyer in Allanak, just buys blocky stones ad nauseam and never turns away people.

3. And my original idea was to have something like a combination of both, but have it affect things outside the city.  Sell a scrab shell to the vendor it deletes the item but keeps track, the Trade Templar or merchant in charge (luirs) can then get a tally of all the food, hide, shell, bones, rocks (whatever categories) and that can influence things in town like, if not enough meat, people go hungry.  If not enough rocks, the buildings can't be maintained and look shoddy and possibly collapse, if not enough shell, armor production struggles, you get the idea.

Just figured it was worth a share here since some folks will never step food in the discord for one reason or another.

You're right.  I won't step into the Discord again.

Let's set-up a hypothetical here.  Let's say there are two main world powers.  A third tries to step in and make itself known.  A widely-traveled clan or two begins to support the third power.  That third power gets shot down eventually, or at least an arm of it.  Would it not be reasonable for there to be repercussions against the widely-traveled clan/s by the remaining two world powers for their previous efforts in supporting the third?  Or do they just get a free pass?

Just because someone stores doesn't mean that the clan they represent is wholly forgiven of the stored character's wrong-doings and a fresh slate is offered.  That's Laughable!!  Especially for clans that are extremely wealthy.

As has been mentioned above, the Byn is a viable source for hiring to escort a hunter.  Expanding the hiring capability of the GMHs doesn't help how spread out the (limited) players are.  We've already opened so many clans that hiring minions isn't possible for them all.  How can we justify allowing certain clans to hire more when there's not enough to go around and there is already workable solutions in place?

I'm all for upping the limit that a vendor will purchase raw goods, but shouldn't that vendor be the Savvy Spiders?  Maybe the GMHs could have raw goods vendors as well.  I'm down with that.  I'm also all for the idea of diminishing returns.

I recall a certain desert elf last year who made a point to buy damn near everything off of independent hunters.  I also recall GMH family members being overly stingy with their coin and not buying raw materials off of independent hunters.  Kinda like that guy outside Nenyuk in Allanak who offers to pay 75 sid for the shell of a silt horror.

[Riev]

The main issue with that is that a lone hunter cannot afford to pay the prices asked by some Sergeants ICly, but that's a whole different subject. GMH could afford said prices, just need to have a good profit margin and most hunts don't.

Honestly, this here is the issue. Is a GMH Merchant going to pay the extravagant cost of, lets say, 800 coins for a unit of Byn to come up and hunt, for a return of MAYBE a couple worm hides? It messes with the cost. Nevermind if you need simple Mek Bone, that bone's cost goes from like 100 coins to 400 coins per bone unless your RPT is to eradicate the Salt Flats.

So is this something that can kind of be 'written off' in the background to increase activity in the game? Or would a merchant now need to sell their Cool Worm Hide Quivers for half a large a piece because the Byn has to get paid too?

[Pariah]

The main issue with that is that a lone hunter cannot afford to pay the prices asked by some Sergeants ICly, but that's a whole different subject. GMH could afford said prices, just need to have a good profit margin and most hunts don't.

Honestly, this here is the issue. Is a GMH Merchant going to pay the extravagant cost of, lets say, 800 coins for a unit of Byn to come up and hunt, for a return of MAYBE a couple worm hides? It messes with the cost. Nevermind if you need simple Mek Bone, that bone's cost goes from like 100 coins to 400 coins per bone unless your RPT is to eradicate the Salt Flats.

So is this something that can kind of be 'written off' in the background to increase activity in the game? Or would a merchant now need to sell their Cool Worm Hide Quivers for half a large a piece because the Byn has to get paid too?

800 coins for 40-50 minutes of time is crazy too.

[DesertT]

800 coins for 40-50 minutes of time is crazy too.

So the real issue here is only getting one silt horror shell from a silt horror and only being able to use said shell for essentially one piece of armor.

[Riev]

800 coins for 40-50 minutes of time is crazy too.

So the real issue here is only getting one silt horror shell from a silt horror and only being able to use said shell for essentially one piece of armor.

It is one of the issues, yes, but one I think is at the heart of the concern. Additionally it is that for "high end" creatures, staff often have them set to load-only or so rare that it would take a full RPT to track one down.

In order to load the amount of critters necessary to make a 'full byn-assisted outing' worthwhile coin-wise, you'd kill probably every PC in the area. To me, it comes down to "Do we Rule of Cool  this or do we force Merchants to make a profit on these hunt RPTs".

[Gunnerblaster]

Regarding the Byn as hirable hunters, so long as the people paying have some of their own element involved, the Byn shouldn't be going out to hunt by themselves.

If a GMH wants some Kryl or other type of material, the Byn can and should be hired to accompany some of that GMH's hunters to assist but I don't think the Byn should be sent out by themselves to do it. If that GMH doesn't have any active hunters to send with the Byn - Tough fucking luck.

[Pariah]

800 coins for 40-50 minutes of time is crazy too.

So the real issue here is only getting one silt horror shell from a silt horror and only being able to use said shell for essentially one piece of armor.

I've never been a crafter of any level of success so I have NO idea what horror shell goes for.

I mean more that it's not sustainable.  Unless I play salt baron sid/glass miner every hour for weeks to build up a fortune, I don't have 800 coins to throw around for a dawn-dusk hunt.

[Aruven]

GMH houses are stuck because they are basically type casted into calling stations for their prescribed goods. This is boring.

I've thrown out multiple times the static hierarchy of both merchant houses and noble clans needs to be allowed to either take over or destroy themselves. I think it's less about the economy itself and more about the playability.

The same three families and the same bankers are given a glass ceiling that is untouchable and the staff have avoided any serious arcs that threaten any of them.

Luirs could have been a sick ass battle royale with the highest bidders of mercenaries and tribes gaining fragile dominance and constantly changing hands but it became a table of make nicers that bid high for a position with no benefits that still rolled over for a big army sliding up to its gates.