Movement, blind spots and enemy reaction times.

[Night Queen]

The Byn literally exist for stuff like this. But barely anyone actually uses them, because it seems like it's been normalised to treat the wilds casually, with a wave of bad changes like mounts being harder to wear out, and carts - with bad examples set by veteran players (including high ranking Byn sometimes!) doing cross-world trips alone, ignoring all the realistic perils there would be of organised gith bands waking up and going after that lone rider etc - I think we need more coded perils (something like an AI that detects lone people and scales to the threat to send roaming raiders etc) to make the game world feel more real, because then the more experienced players would stop ignoring it, and start actually playing alongside the newbies.

[Kavrick]

The Byn literally exist for stuff like this. But barely anyone actually uses them, because it seems like it's been normalised to treat the wilds casually, with a wave of bad changes like mounts being harder to wear out, and carts - with bad examples set by veteran players (including high ranking Byn sometimes!) doing cross-world trips alone, ignoring all the realistic perils there would be of organised gith bands waking up and going after that lone rider etc - I think we need more coded perils (something like an AI that detects lone people and scales to the threat to send roaming raiders etc) to make the game world feel more real, because then the more experienced players would stop ignoring it, and start actually playing alongside the newbies.

I really don't think punishing solo players is a good idea when some people have no choice but to play off-peak. if I get punished for playing the game during my own time-zone, it would drive me to stop playing.

[Pariah]

The Byn literally exist for stuff like this. But barely anyone actually uses them, because it seems like it's been normalised to treat the wilds casually, with a wave of bad changes like mounts being harder to wear out, and carts - with bad examples set by veteran players (including high ranking Byn sometimes!) doing cross-world trips alone, ignoring all the realistic perils there would be of organised gith bands waking up and going after that lone rider etc - I think we need more coded perils (something like an AI that detects lone people and scales to the threat to send roaming raiders etc) to make the game world feel more real, because then the more experienced players would stop ignoring it, and start actually playing alongside the newbies.

I'd love to hire Byn, but every time I look into you have a choice of one of two things.

A. Pay a little bit for a trooper/mercenary who probably isn't around when you need him/her.

B. They want an astronomical price to take you from Allanak to Luirs or be security while you greb or whatnot.  I think I had one Sergeant when I asked for him to protect me while I grebbed in a distant cave, quote me a LARGE.  I don't think my character even made a large yet in their life.

I think they either get greedy or they don't understand oocly "Hey this gives my runners and shit stuff to do!" which causes them to be utilized way less than they should.

[Kavrick]

The Byn literally exist for stuff like this. But barely anyone actually uses them, because it seems like it's been normalised to treat the wilds casually, with a wave of bad changes like mounts being harder to wear out, and carts - with bad examples set by veteran players (including high ranking Byn sometimes!) doing cross-world trips alone, ignoring all the realistic perils there would be of organised gith bands waking up and going after that lone rider etc - I think we need more coded perils (something like an AI that detects lone people and scales to the threat to send roaming raiders etc) to make the game world feel more real, because then the more experienced players would stop ignoring it, and start actually playing alongside the newbies.

I'd love to hire Byn, but every time I look into you have a choice of one of two things.

A. Pay a little bit for a trooper/mercenary who probably isn't around when you need him/her.

B. They want an astronomical price to take you from Allanak to Luirs or be security while you greb or whatnot.  I think I had one Sergeant when I asked for him to protect me while I grebbed in a distant cave, quote me a LARGE.  I don't think my character even made a large yet in their life.

I think they either get greedy or they don't understand oocly "Hey this gives my runners and shit stuff to do!" which causes them to be utilized way less than they should.

I second this, the price of hiring people is pretty rough. If i'm playing a scout and just starting off trying to get good at surviving, this would be a perfect time for me to hire someone to help me hunt. But hunting doesn't really make you a lot of money compared to stuff like obsidian mining or rubble grebbing in tuluk, so hiring someone to help you hunt wont even pay for itself so it's not really worth it.

[Night Queen]

I really don't think punishing solo players is a good idea when some people have no choice but to play off-peak. if I get punished for playing the game during my own time-zone, it would drive me to stop playing.

Different places in the world are busy at different times, terms like peak and off-peak just normalise the idea that the world should revolve around a particular time-zone - There's nearly always Byn from around the world because it's just that kind of clan, you can definitely find someone. Whether they're "meant" to go out with you is another thing, but they still can (and that's just a failure of leadership/assigning leadership positions to people that play at different times )

[Kavrick]

I really don't think punishing solo players is a good idea when some people have no choice but to play off-peak. if I get punished for playing the game during my own time-zone, it would drive me to stop playing.

Different places in the world are busy at different times, terms like peak and off-peak just normalise the idea that the world should revolve around a particular time-zone - There's nearly always Byn from around the world because it's just that kind of clan, you can definitely find someone. Whether they're "meant" to go out with you is another thing, but they still can (and that's just a failure of leadership/assigning leadership positions to people that play at different times )

Pretty much every clan I've met through multiple characters has had american timezone leadership. A lot of the game is centered around american timezones, especially when pretty much every RTP is around 3-4am my time. I would love to join a clan that's around my timezone but I haven't found one so far, so usually the way I play Arm is as a solo game until it's the evening to where I can hang out with the americans.

[Night Queen]

Well this is because leadership positions keep getting advertised as American times only, despite most of the interaction with staff being through reports anyway (!?) I think we need a rule that all positions should at least represent two halves of the world time-zone wise

[Kavrick]

Well this is because leadership positions keep getting advertised as American times only, despite most of the interaction with staff being through reports anyway (!?) I think we need a rule that all positions should at least represent two halves of the world time-zone wise

It's a bit off topic but I agree. Even if there was just one clan I could join that was designated a "european clan" so I could play with people in my timezone, that'd be really nice. I don't like playing solo, just kinda forced to.

[Night Queen]

Still fairly sure you can just ask any Byn at just about any time of the day, though

[Kavrick]

Still fairly sure you can just ask any Byn at just about any time of the day, though

Edit: Probably too precise IC information, removing that.

[Halcyon]

I think, in the end, it may come down to a callous "too bad, so sad" scenario.
If your mount is not faster than the apex predators in your area, or your skill at riding does not allow you to get away fast... well. You should not be hunting there.
ABSOLUTELY this is an issue when you can just run up next to a bahamet basking in the sun. Thems the dangers of the ever-green lands.

If this is the case, you are explicitly asking people to use knowledge from character to character or not venture outside.   I dont think either are healthy for the game.

[Night Queen]

It's part of the base lore of the setting that it's meant to be suicidal to wander out of the gates alone - that this has got easier for some people as a result of silly code changes is part of the problem, because then everyone wants to do it and thinks it's normal - I think we need a complete revamp of the wilds to reflect the changes and make it actually scary, so people actually play with other characters, it's a detriment to the game when nearly everyone is solo because those people eventually get bored and leave

[Kavrick]

It's part of the base lore of the setting that it's meant to be suicidal to wander out of the gates alone - that this has got easier for some people as a result of silly code changes is part of the problem, because then everyone wants to do it and thinks it's normal - I think we need a complete revamp of the wilds to reflect the changes and make it actually scary

I think you would push a lot of players away if you were forced to be in groups to do wilderness content.

[Riev]

I think, in the end, it may come down to a callous "too bad, so sad" scenario.
If your mount is not faster than the apex predators in your area, or your skill at riding does not allow you to get away fast... well. You should not be hunting there.
ABSOLUTELY this is an issue when you can just run up next to a bahamet basking in the sun. Thems the dangers of the ever-green lands.

If this is the case, you are explicitly asking people to use knowledge from character to character or not venture outside.   I dont think either are healthy for the game.

I don't think its entirely unfair to assume that people know "its dangerous to go outside alone" from character to character.

Your new PCs are not blank slates, activated at the time of login. They were virtual NPCs that you are bringing to life. Chances are, they've heard of a mekillot and hunters dying to scrab pinchies

[Night Queen]

It's part of the base lore of the setting that it's meant to be suicidal to wander out of the gates alone - that this has got easier for some people as a result of silly code changes is part of the problem, because then everyone wants to do it and thinks it's normal - I think we need a complete revamp of the wilds to reflect the changes and make it actually scary

I think you would push a lot of players away if you were forced to be in groups to do wilderness content.

It's the absolute opposite.

People are the same everywhere, and commercial games companies have found that encouraging people to play with other people means they are more likely to stay - whereas if they were alone, it's easier to just disappear randomly. So if you give motivations and goals for people that would otherwise stay completely isolated, they will actually start to take a foot into the pool and start joining groups for things. And from there on it becomes fun, and you find that some of the most capable, independent, people can turn out to be good leaders too

[Hauwke]

It's part of the base lore of the setting that it's meant to be suicidal to wander out of the gates alone - that this has got easier for some people as a result of silly code changes is part of the problem, because then everyone wants to do it and thinks it's normal - I think we need a complete revamp of the wilds to reflect the changes and make it actually scary

I think you would push a lot of players away if you were forced to be in groups to do wilderness content.

It's the absolute opposite.

People are the same everywhere, and commercial games companies have found that encouraging people to play with other people means they are more likely to stay - whereas if they were alone, it's easier to just disappear randomly. So if you give motivations and goals for people that would otherwise stay completely isolated, they will actually start to take a foot into the pool and start joining groups for things. And from there on it becomes fun, and you find that some of the most capable, independent, people can turn out to be good leaders too

Have you ever even met out playerbase? Like seriously?

There would be such colossal backlash over this change that I think we'd lose a good number of players in short order.

We are not a video game with 25000 players at any given time, we can't just type into chat "lfg, need 2". We insteadhm have times when it is basically impossible to find other people because the 15 logged in players are all somewhere you aren't. Likely off in the wilderness doing their own thing and having fun.

Would I like to see more colaboration? Absolutely, I think the largest population being made up of mega twinked indies is silly. But making it so no one can indy it up is a horrible idea.

[Night Queen]

It's part of the base lore of the setting that it's meant to be suicidal to wander out of the gates alone - that this has got easier for some people as a result of silly code changes is part of the problem, because then everyone wants to do it and thinks it's normal - I think we need a complete revamp of the wilds to reflect the changes and make it actually scary

I think you would push a lot of players away if you were forced to be in groups to do wilderness content.

It's the absolute opposite.

People are the same everywhere, and commercial games companies have found that encouraging people to play with other people means they are more likely to stay - whereas if they were alone, it's easier to just disappear randomly. So if you give motivations and goals for people that would otherwise stay completely isolated, they will actually start to take a foot into the pool and start joining groups for things. And from there on it becomes fun, and you find that some of the most capable, independent, people can turn out to be good leaders too

Have you ever even met out playerbase? Like seriously?

There would be such colossal backlash over this change that I think we'd lose a good number of players in short order.

We are not a video game with 25000 players at any given time, we can't just type into chat "lfg, need 2". We insteadhm have times when it is basically impossible to find other people because the 15 logged in players are all somewhere you aren't. Likely off in the wilderness doing their own thing and having fun.

Would I like to see more colaboration? Absolutely, I think the largest population being made up of mega twinked indies is silly. But making it so no one can indy it up is a horrible idea.

Whenever anyone someone suggests there will be a backlash it's usually hugely exaggerated, most people do not get all that worked up, people that post on the forum are a minority.

Also: Nothing of value would be lost.


For every person that mainly plays giant or dwarves, there's people being put off from trying Armageddon from the stories about these kind of characters and the focus on code that the bad stereotypes come from

For Armageddon to start to have a chance of replenishing the lost roleplayers, there have to be some concessions, the game's been in thrall to a code focus for too long and people NOTICE.

But most don't say anything, no backlash from the more RP-focused - they just leave to write elsewhere, because most people don't want to argue.


- More AI NPC reactions for when storytellers are asleep (or just not wanting to get involved - it's fair to say that it feels unfair when a NPC is spawned next to someone, it's better to have it all automated)

- Make giant NPCs (reason: code focus, low contribution to stories)

- Make dwarf NPCs (reason: code focus, low contribution to stories, "Each of the dwarves is just one thing .. You're progressive in one way but you're still making that *ing backward story of seven dwarves living in the cave." Separate species. Literally not even human.)

- Close Bashurit (reason: code focus, low contribution to stories, isolation with segregation of high karma from low karma characters, waterslides)

- Close Vrun-hali (reason: another Tan Muark is a mistake, for same reasons)

[Pariah]

It's part of the base lore of the setting that it's meant to be suicidal to wander out of the gates alone - that this has got easier for some people as a result of silly code changes is part of the problem, because then everyone wants to do it and thinks it's normal - I think we need a complete revamp of the wilds to reflect the changes and make it actually scary

I think you would push a lot of players away if you were forced to be in groups to do wilderness content.

It's the absolute opposite.

People are the same everywhere, and commercial games companies have found that encouraging people to play with other people means they are more likely to stay - whereas if they were alone, it's easier to just disappear randomly. So if you give motivations and goals for people that would otherwise stay completely isolated, they will actually start to take a foot into the pool and start joining groups for things. And from there on it becomes fun, and you find that some of the most capable, independent, people can turn out to be good leaders too

Have you ever even met out playerbase? Like seriously?

There would be such colossal backlash over this change that I think we'd lose a good number of players in short order.

We are not a video game with 25000 players at any given time, we can't just type into chat "lfg, need 2". We insteadhm have times when it is basically impossible to find other people because the 15 logged in players are all somewhere you aren't. Likely off in the wilderness doing their own thing and having fun.

Would I like to see more colaboration? Absolutely, I think the largest population being made up of mega twinked indies is silly. But making it so no one can indy it up is a horrible idea.

Whenever anyone someone suggests there will be a backlash it's usually hugely exaggerated, most people do not get all that worked up, people that post on the forum are a minority.

Also: Nothing of value would be lost.


For every person that mainly plays giant or dwarves, there's people being put off from trying Armageddon from the stories about these kind of characters and the focus on code that the bad stereotypes come from

For Armageddon to start to have a chance of replenishing the lost roleplayers, there have to be some concessions, the game's been in thrall to a code focus for too long and people NOTICE.

But most don't say anything, no backlash from the more RP-focused - they just leave to write elsewhere, because most people don't want to argue.


- More AI NPC reactions for when storytellers are asleep (or just not wanting to get involved - it's fair to say that it feels unfair when a NPC is spawned next to someone, it's better to have it all automated)

- Make giant NPCs (reason: code focus, low contribution to stories)

- Make dwarf NPCs (reason: code focus, low contribution to stories, "Each of the dwarves is just one thing .. You're progressive in one way but you're still making that *ing backward story of seven dwarves living in the cave." Separate species. Literally not even human.)

- Close Bashurit (reason: code focus, low contribution to stories, isolation with segregation of high karma from low karma characters, waterslides)

- Close Vrun-hali (reason: another Tan Muark is a mistake, for same reasons)

So you want nothing but humans and elves to be playable?  How do you know the Vrunwhatevers are Tan Muark clones?  I'm indifferent to the mutants so they can stay or go, doesn't matter to me.

[Night Queen]

I think the game needs more focus on characters and less on shallow flavor-of-the-month gimmicks and stereotypes, if even half of it was done it'd help

[creeper386]

Man, I think closing non human, non-elf races would kill the game completely.

EDIT: But also a lot of this is very quickly becoming off topic for the thread.

[Pariah]

Man, I think closing non human, non-elf races would kill the game completely.

EDIT: But also a lot of this is very quickly becoming off topic for the thread.

True, can you report to moderator and ask them to clean it up?

I would but I'm mobile only for now.

[Hauwke]

It's part of the base lore of the setting that it's meant to be suicidal to wander out of the gates alone - that this has got easier for some people as a result of silly code changes is part of the problem, because then everyone wants to do it and thinks it's normal - I think we need a complete revamp of the wilds to reflect the changes and make it actually scary

I think you would push a lot of players away if you were forced to be in groups to do wilderness content.

It's the absolute opposite.

People are the same everywhere, and commercial games companies have found that encouraging people to play with other people means they are more likely to stay - whereas if they were alone, it's easier to just disappear randomly. So if you give motivations and goals for people that would otherwise stay completely isolated, they will actually start to take a foot into the pool and start joining groups for things. And from there on it becomes fun, and you find that some of the most capable, independent, people can turn out to be good leaders too

Have you ever even met out playerbase? Like seriously?

There would be such colossal backlash over this change that I think we'd lose a good number of players in short order.

We are not a video game with 25000 players at any given time, we can't just type into chat "lfg, need 2". We insteadhm have times when it is basically impossible to find other people because the 15 logged in players are all somewhere you aren't. Likely off in the wilderness doing their own thing and having fun.

Would I like to see more colaboration? Absolutely, I think the largest population being made up of mega twinked indies is silly. But making it so no one can indy it up is a horrible idea.

Whenever anyone someone suggests there will be a backlash it's usually hugely exaggerated, most people do not get all that worked up, people that post on the forum are a minority.

Also: Nothing of value would be lost.


For every person that mainly plays giant or dwarves, there's people being put off from trying Armageddon from the stories about these kind of characters and the focus on code that the bad stereotypes come from

For Armageddon to start to have a chance of replenishing the lost roleplayers, there have to be some concessions, the game's been in thrall to a code focus for too long and people NOTICE.

But most don't say anything, no backlash from the more RP-focused - they just leave to write elsewhere, because most people don't want to argue.


- More AI NPC reactions for when storytellers are asleep (or just not wanting to get involved - it's fair to say that it feels unfair when a NPC is spawned next to someone, it's better to have it all automated)

- Make giant NPCs (reason: code focus, low contribution to stories)

- Make dwarf NPCs (reason: code focus, low contribution to stories, "Each of the dwarves is just one thing .. You're progressive in one way but you're still making that *ing backward story of seven dwarves living in the cave." Separate species. Literally not even human.)

- Close Bashurit (reason: code focus, low contribution to stories, isolation with segregation of high karma from low karma characters, waterslides)

- Close Vrun-hali (reason: another Tan Muark is a mistake, for same reasons)

So you want nothing but humans and elves to be playable?  How do you know the Vrunwhatevers are Tan Muark clones?  I'm indifferent to the mutants so they can stay or go, doesn't matter to me.

I think it may have to do with the fact NightQueen does not actually want what is, or even understand, best for the game at all. How is removing enormous swathes of the game so people can sit in taverns useful. It is not and will never be a good idea.

The Bashurit don't have water slides.

Dwarves are story contributors, some of the very best PCs have been incredibly well played dwarves.

HG's are the same, the bad ones are bad, but the good ones are truly great.

[Barsook]

Wrong thread, my friend.

[Night Queen]

It's part of the base lore of the setting that it's meant to be suicidal to wander out of the gates alone - that this has got easier for some people as a result of silly code changes is part of the problem, because then everyone wants to do it and thinks it's normal - I think we need a complete revamp of the wilds to reflect the changes and make it actually scary

I think you would push a lot of players away if you were forced to be in groups to do wilderness content.

It's the absolute opposite.

People are the same everywhere, and commercial games companies have found that encouraging people to play with other people means they are more likely to stay - whereas if they were alone, it's easier to just disappear randomly. So if you give motivations and goals for people that would otherwise stay completely isolated, they will actually start to take a foot into the pool and start joining groups for things. And from there on it becomes fun, and you find that some of the most capable, independent, people can turn out to be good leaders too

Have you ever even met out playerbase? Like seriously?

There would be such colossal backlash over this change that I think we'd lose a good number of players in short order.

We are not a video game with 25000 players at any given time, we can't just type into chat "lfg, need 2". We insteadhm have times when it is basically impossible to find other people because the 15 logged in players are all somewhere you aren't. Likely off in the wilderness doing their own thing and having fun.

Would I like to see more colaboration? Absolutely, I think the largest population being made up of mega twinked indies is silly. But making it so no one can indy it up is a horrible idea.

Whenever anyone someone suggests there will be a backlash it's usually hugely exaggerated, most people do not get all that worked up, people that post on the forum are a minority.

Also: Nothing of value would be lost.


For every person that mainly plays giant or dwarves, there's people being put off from trying Armageddon from the stories about these kind of characters and the focus on code that the bad stereotypes come from

For Armageddon to start to have a chance of replenishing the lost roleplayers, there have to be some concessions, the game's been in thrall to a code focus for too long and people NOTICE.

But most don't say anything, no backlash from the more RP-focused - they just leave to write elsewhere, because most people don't want to argue.


- More AI NPC reactions for when storytellers are asleep (or just not wanting to get involved - it's fair to say that it feels unfair when a NPC is spawned next to someone, it's better to have it all automated)

- Make giant NPCs (reason: code focus, low contribution to stories)

- Make dwarf NPCs (reason: code focus, low contribution to stories, "Each of the dwarves is just one thing .. You're progressive in one way but you're still making that *ing backward story of seven dwarves living in the cave." Separate species. Literally not even human.)

- Close Bashurit (reason: code focus, low contribution to stories, isolation with segregation of high karma from low karma characters, waterslides)

- Close Vrun-hali (reason: another Tan Muark is a mistake, for same reasons)

So you want nothing but humans and elves to be playable?  How do you know the Vrunwhatevers are Tan Muark clones?  I'm indifferent to the mutants so they can stay or go, doesn't matter to me.

I think it may have to do with the fact NightQueen does not actually want what is, or even understand, best for the game at all. How is removing enormous swathes of the game so people can sit in taverns useful. It is not and will never be a good idea.

The Bashurit don't have water slides.

Dwarves are story contributors, some of the very best PCs have been incredibly well played dwarves.

HG's are the same, the bad ones are bad, but the good ones are truly great.

There is nothing about being a dwarf itself that is a good character though, it's literally just saying they are not human because of their height lol. Tyrion from Game of Thrones is an example of a well-played dwarf. That does not exist in Armageddon, because the height would automatically classify them as non-human.

Waterslides are a metaphor for having too much things given to them to make what should normally be a hard position easy, I don't know if the Tan Muark ever even had literal waterslides(?)

Hauwke "does not actually want what is, or even understand, best for the game at all." And has admitted a few times on Discord to playing in a very limited code-focused fashion, focused on giants. I think that kind of stuff is part of the problem. Back to thread topic: Why are you going to hire a group when there's a giant doing everything for free? It's not meant to be a solo game, and when people play it like that, it affects the game for everyone else. It's not dangerous enough when people are doing this commonly. Giants should in fact attract extra attention from NPCs due to the size and noise.

[Dracul]

Tyrion is a human with dwarfism.

"Dwarves" in Zalanthas are evolved from darksun/dnd dwarves and are strong, short, hairless neurodivergent people who have a dedicated focus. Please read the helpfiles.

HG should definitely affect the economy, why do you think the Highlord makes them?

The Bashurit are incredible, and just as vulnerable to any npcs as any other group with a clan. They die too.

This thread has derailed hard...and is not going to go back on track because the initial post is about blindspots.

Blindspots in diku code would take tremendous effort to change, and it is not a desired effort from various voices on staff or players. Try to imagine those NE cant see SE cant see as those damn dunes, a tree, or whatever..and that is 'one' of the primitive tools that make the game harsh.