Reputation System

[Pariah]

Seeing someone else in another thread talk about "Paying off the rooftop elves" made me think about this.

Themely you have all these power players/groups in the city.

You have Guilders behind the scenes playing a sorta mafia game.

You have soldiers who have power over essentially life and death.

Templars are self explainatory.

Nobles who are nobles and demand respect by their birth more than any accomplishments

GMH Family members and respected employees etc.

All this right now is just themely support, some code but mostly you're intended to just know and react accordingly.

What if there were coded actions that tracked it sorta like a reputation system.

I'll use the guild/rinth area for an example:

What if Amos the hunter has been going out daily IG and hunting and killing stuff, coming back and taking the excess meat he's gathered (Any hunter ends up with a metric ton of meat).  And was donating it to the less fortunates of the Rinth, be it a collection point that's created on slavers or something else like the Orphanage.  Each time you do that, with a timer of course, cause Armageddon loves it's timers hah, you tick up a bit of reputation with the Rinth/Guild/Something.  Then when you hit certain plateaus the world sorta comes alive in a new way.

One of the things I've always found impressive and I know it's not really, but it really brings the world alive is things like when you're a Bynner and you've walked through the gate 100 times.  But then you walk through with a Sergeant and the gate guard Salutes due to his rank and the animation is tailored to his rank.  Or the guards how they notice the soldier and step back like, "My bad, go on through."

What if it was possible to track and raise your reputation with various factions within a town (At first, then maybe expand the system to tribal outdoors after it's kinks are worked out).  So say you're an elf burglar (fucking elves) and you are looking at Hunter Amo's apartment door, when you go to pick it, this happens.

A voice comes from the darkness over your shoulder, "I ain't trying to tell you what to do, but you know who's door that is, I would recommend you leave it be, or don't but you've been warned."

Would it actually do anything other than flavor, probably not, don't think spawning assassins would ever happen, but thinks like that would encourage a few different outcomes.

That elf might go, "Oh shit, I'm not trying to get into it with anyone." and leave, he might go, "Do they know who the FUCK I AM!?" and proceed.  He might turn from I'm gonna steal all the furniture in this apartment to, I'm interested to know who the fuck lives here now, he sounds important.

There are lots of ways that some type of reputation system that is based on IG actions would bolster RP.

I'm honestly surprised nothing like this has happened yet in this game.

That's just one example, but you could easily add in things like getting known by Merchants, if you sell jewelry to Kadius for a month, that they start to know you.  Maybe they give you slightly better prices, they greet you by name, something that might not even be a tangible benefit but just observable by the outside and give that feeling of, This guy isn't just selling to an NPC, that merchant fucking knows him.

I dunno, I think this would be a cool ass system to have in a game where immersion is the goal and living the character and playing with the world like it's alive is a goal as well.

[Brisket]

this exists, its called roleplay

[Veselka]

The interesting aspect of this would be utilizing hometown/origin to dictate things like city entry fees or merchant prices and availability. And given time it could be adjusted if your PC makes changes in their life.

Ultimately though it seems like it would be a ton of effort for not that much pay off. Nice idea though.

[Narf]

this exists, its called roleplay

Most NPCs don't role play.

That could be changed with code.

Some people think that would be cool and immersive.

[Riev]

It reminds me of an MMO system from one I played but don't remember the name, where they tried to introduce "politicians" as a class, manipulating the levers in a city.

The idea is interesting. A lot of work, and it would be neat to "grind your 'rinthi faction so you stop getting attacked" but I can say from confidence that some 'rinthers don't care if you're a Blue Robed templar, they're going after you.

[Miradus]

this exists, its called roleplay

Most NPCs don't role play.

That could be changed with code.

Some people think that would be cool and immersive.

There is almost no reputation method in Allanak I can see which wouldn't be lore breaking.

Feeding the hungry?  They're hungry because they don't love the Highlord like I do. Fuck 'em.

Helping the poor? They're poor because the Highlord wants them to be poor.

There are no good guys in this setting. There's only bad guys with different agendas.

[Brisket]

this exists, its called roleplay

Most NPCs don't role play.

That could be changed with code.

Some people think that would be cool and immersive.

Sure they do, staff animate and react to who your PC is.  There are various ways to influence the ways NPCs react to you.  I don't like the idea of Reputation Grind quests, if you want status, earn it with roleplay.

[mansa]

Perhaps we could utilize the guild rank system for this.

[Brisket]

Perhaps we could utilize the guild rank system for this.

I'd be ok with a 'tribes' level thing that can change the way NPCs react as you earn ranks in it oocly to represent it.  That sort of exists already but broadening it isn't the worst idea.

[Pariah]

this exists, its called roleplay

Most NPCs don't role play.

That could be changed with code.

Some people think that would be cool and immersive.

Sure they do, staff animate and react to who your PC is.  There are various ways to influence the ways NPCs react to you.  I don't like the idea of Reputation Grind quests, if you want status, earn it with roleplay.

Interacting with the code is roleplay.

Same as if someone plays a raider, walks into your room and types Kill dude.

Some people will claim that's not RP, but as many have said over many a year here.  Red Text is roleplay too.

Some people are just here to chop up motherfuckers with bone swords.

Now is that very fulfilling when someone just goes pure code on you?  No not at all, but if they have a reason to murder you, and it's in their character's want and ability to murder you, how you get murdered isn't up to you.

So if you take that mindset and flip it, there are people who aren't trying to murder everyone, the non murderhobo type who prefer the world to come alive around them, and mostly interact with the denizens of the world.  Why couldn't they have some code to back that up?  Not everything requests a staff request or wish all help me do this thing please!

[Brisket]

your reputation is a social factor, NPCs aren't really going to be able to recreate that except as a 'i did my rinth grind now I can walk around in silks scot-free!'

[Vwest]

your reputation is a social factor, NPCs aren't really going to be able to recreate that except as a 'i did my rinth grind now I can walk around in silks scot-free!'

A system of reputation would give player leaders some agency and weight behind their positions, by virtue of the fact they can add or deduct from your standing with the faction. As it stands, you only really need to survive longer than your enemies and the new boots in town won't be interested in picking up their dead/stored predecessors enemies. If you had a coded score card that keeps up with your history, this would be a lot harder to get away with.

You murdered a Borsail aide for Oash? Borsail noble finds out and you're in the shit with Borsail in indefinite terms, unless you open communication and work it out with them. It wouldn't matter if the current noble dies or stores, because the clan is now keeping track and the new nobles are going to be aware you've murdered their people before. You want a clean slate with Borsail, you have no choice but to engage with them to work out some manner of recompense, or you're on their shit list indefinitely. Real, lasting consequences.

Oash is pleased you were a useful mook and even if the noble who hired you to whack the Aide dies or stores, the next nobles coming in are going to know you've done Oash some favors and have a real and tangible reason to seek you out for future jobs and cooperation, even if you've never met with each other. Real, lasting benefits.

There could be coded benefits like lower shop prices, I guess? The real benefit would come from a lasting reputation that doesn't yo-yo from good to awful in the span of a leadership PC dying or storing. The good work you've done will be remembered and carried on, so even if you aren't able to join a clan (racial limitations, social limitations, birth limitations, clan cap limits), you can still earn your way into being close enough to be a shoe-in for involvement with them long term. If your Templar really likes the loyalty and gumption, he can increase your standing with his clans, so the AoD lay off you and other Templars know you've done some work for the highlord. Of course, of the Tuluks find out, well...

The potential options for spies opens up, as a clever agent could focus on building up a good reputation with various factions over their lifetime, one that transcends the often fleeting span of individual leadership characters lives.

It also means if people take breaks (deployments, have babies, get married, breaking in a new job) and come back in six months, some of their reputation persists (for better or worse) as it would in an organic society. As it stands, taking a break usually results in a total social reset, meaning all the IC favor (or ire) you worked for is gone. You shouldn't be punished for having having your real life take priority, but often you are. At least with a coded reputation system, it'd be easier to break back into where you left off, since new leaders can see you've done good work for the clan in the past.

I'd envision it simply as an addition to the stat screen (stat rep, for an argument to bring it up after the standard stat screen) that shows a number value for the number of 'favors' you've done for various clans. When you've done something positive, clan leaders give you a coded bump (maybe two if it was some heavy shit). When you do something negative, they give you a coded slap (maybe two of it was some heavy shit). Set the cap to ten, only list clans you've got reputation with.

It'd be nice if you had a toggle that let you know peoples reputation with your clan (possibly even their name after the first couple favors) by looking at them.

You 'look Aida' and at the end of the description (but before equipment), you get something like:
You recognize Aida, who is in high standing with the Arm of the Dragon. (As a soldier)

Alternatively:
You recognize Aida, who has a low standing with The T'zai Byn. (As a shitcloak)

It'd only show it based on your current clan(s).

Instead of just seeing some bumbling desert trash in the market, your Aide PC recognizes them as a potential ally and you now have adequate reason to strike up a conversation that bypasses social standings, since they have a history with your clan. The bumbling desert trash, fresh back from his deployment and breaking back into the game, now has a new contact to pick up where he left off before, even if all his old contacts are gone, without having to do a bunch of 'fetch stuff to prove yourself' bullshit all over again.

You could have some fun with it by making hoods/masks not give that little nugget of information, so you can still dodge your reputation in temporary fashion.

In scenarios where people have done something incredible that people everywhere would have heard about, it would give staff a means of recognition of having done that good/awful thing.  It could even be tailored so that different factions see the 'heroic' title differently, based on The Big Deal that spawned it.

Example:
You recognize Dade, world-renowned hero of the T'zai Byn. (Your clan likes the T'zai Byn)

Alternatively:
You recognize Dade, world-renowned butcher of the T'zai Byn. (Your clan hates the T'zai Byn)

Alt alternative:
You recognize Dade, world-renowned member of the T'zai Byn. (You're unclanned / clan is neutral to T'zai Byn)

It could be expanded a little more to award long lived and successful pcs with career-related reputations, too.

Example:
You recognize Shy, legendary whore of Allanak.

If games in general have proven anything, it's that people love this kind of stuff, even if it provides no coded benefits at all. It'd be a hedge against breaks doing total social resets and an incentive for people to interact more beyond their comfort zone, as well as a draw to get in on big world-spanning RPT events and take some risks, because hey, you might nab a title if you're the guy/gal who does the that thing and saves/ruins the world. It gives people a reason to really push their career out there and do things for people, so they, too, can be known as the best damn prostitute in the whole, wide world.

Recognition is a really, really powerful motivator for human beings and could be leveraged towards improving interaction pretty easily with fairly minimal coded investment.

[Pariah]

Not to mention it doesn't necessarily need to be super automated.

Maybe the tweaks to it are done via your staffer after your report?  This would encourage regular reporting as well as give some flavor and lasting impact of your character on the world.

[Brisket]

God no, please don't make it even easier to recognize people - we already have people who abuse being able to always see mdescs.

You could type a million words and not convince me that a World of Warcraft inspired reputation system is a goo change for the game.  You post a lot of threads complaining about the game and its systems, do you even like Armageddon?

[Pariah]

It's not complaining, it's recommending improvements

And despite the fact you're trying to slightly troll me here, I am more offended that you think I know anything about world of Warcraft, yuck.

[Brisket]

I'm not trying to troll you at all, it was an honest question.  I don't think this WoW reputation system is good.

[BadSkeelz]

While I think a whole reputation tracking system would be a waste of time, I do think there's some merit in being able to assess someone and tell what clan and rank they are. Ideally it'd be tied to the gear they're wearing (or a tattoo that can be hidden), so you could go incognito if need be.

assess -v tall

He is slightly older than you.
He appears to be in adulthood for his race.
He is taller than you.
He is heavier than you.
He appears to be a Sergeant of the T'zai Byn mercenary
The tall, muscular man is in excellent condition.
The tall, muscular man does not look tired.

[Veselka]

While I think a whole reputation tracking system would be a waste of time, I do think there's some merit in being able to assess someone and tell what clan and rank they are. Ideally it'd be tied to the gear they're wearing (or a tattoo that can be hidden), so you could go incognito if need be.

assess -v tall

He is slightly older than you.
He appears to be in adulthood for his race.
He is taller than you.
He is heavier than you.
He appears to be a Sergeant of the T'zai Byn mercenary
The tall, muscular man is in excellent condition.
The tall, muscular man does not look tired.

+12

[Brisket]

While I think a whole reputation tracking system would be a waste of time, I do think there's some merit in being able to assess someone and tell what clan and rank they are. Ideally it'd be tied to the gear they're wearing (or a tattoo that can be hidden), so you could go incognito if need be.

assess -v tall

He is slightly older than you.
He appears to be in adulthood for his race.
He is taller than you.
He is heavier than you.
He appears to be a Sergeant of the T'zai Byn mercenary
The tall, muscular man is in excellent condition.
The tall, muscular man does not look tired.

I love, love, love this... IF --

it's tied to wearing the badge of that office in some way.  It's easy to miss stripes/etc. in a fully geared person, but it should be something you can view with assess.

[BadSkeelz]

That's what I'm thinking. Aba tells the clan, Sleeves tell the rank. Most other military clans follow similar patterns of mixed items.

You could probably extend it to tribes, but I don't think it should be. Learning the ins and outs of tribal markings and titles is something best pursued in game. I see this mostly as a newbie benefit, for people who are in cities and should know why this guy with a black cloak and jade patch (or worse, silk and a silver ring) is giving you grief.

[LidlessEye]

I actually like OP's suggestion. Sometimes you expend a lot of effort building relations with organization A and its leader PC, and due to a stroke of misfortune, that PC dies or stores, and the next person is like, 'Who the hell are you? Get outta my face." It is both unfortunate and a little disappointing, having to start all over again.

To expand on OP's suggestion, why not have the means for higher ranking PCs in a clan to assign some 'influence' points towards a PC, either codedly Or via a request? The amount that one can assign could vary according to rank, and that would decay over time. And any PC of sufficient rank could codedly use a command once a person's name is known, to check that person's standing.

Consider the following: Amos does a lot of work for noble Lord Janos of House A including eliminating that clan's enemies, returning metal rings, and also helps Lord Janos' aide with certain things. Now the noble could, if his relationship with Amos isn't a secret, assign some influence points with House A, and when a few months later, Lord Janos dies, and the next PC comes around, Amos shows up and the new noble could quickly check and know if Amos can be given patronage in light of past contributions.

[Pariah]

While I think a whole reputation tracking system would be a waste of time, I do think there's some merit in being able to assess someone and tell what clan and rank they are. Ideally it'd be tied to the gear they're wearing (or a tattoo that can be hidden), so you could go incognito if need be.

assess -v tall

He is slightly older than you.
He appears to be in adulthood for his race.
He is taller than you.
He is heavier than you.
He appears to be a Sergeant of the T'zai Byn mercenary
The tall, muscular man is in excellent condition.
The tall, muscular man does not look tired.

This is why I value the GDB. I had no intention of something like this when I was posing the OP.

However, this is fucking great.

I've always thought that it was odd the coded ambiguity of the game.  Sure now I know two stripes and a shitcloak is a Sergeant.  But there were years when I had no idea of the difference.  I think they are sometimes hesitant due to the fact they want folks to learn by doing and experiencing and view it as giving them too much solid info is bad.  However it's only displayed to the character who seeks out the info by doing the command.  Along this line of thinking I wish upon wish that they would just put poisons as poisons when you're assessing them.  Having them be silly colors does nothing to stick in my mind.  I've had many characters with max brew and poison and none of the colors ever stuck except that they were poison.  Having it just say, It's bloodburn would be optimal.

[dumbstruck]

I actually like OP's suggestion. Sometimes you expend a lot of effort building relations with organization A and its leader PC, and due to a stroke of misfortune, that PC dies or stores, and the next person is like, 'Who the hell are you? Get outta my face." It is both unfortunate and a little disappointing, having to start all over again.

To expand on OP's suggestion, why not have the means for higher ranking PCs in a clan to assign some 'influence' points towards a PC, either codedly Or via a request? The amount that one can assign could vary according to rank, and that would decay over time. And any PC of sufficient rank could codedly use a command once a person's name is known, to check that person's standing.

Consider the following: Amos does a lot of work for noble Lord Janos of House A including eliminating that clan's enemies, returning metal rings, and also helps Lord Janos' aide with certain things. Now the noble could, if his relationship with Amos isn't a secret, assign some influence points with House A, and when a few months later, Lord Janos dies, and the next PC comes around, Amos shows up and the new noble could quickly check and know if Amos can be given patronage in light of past contributions.

In this specific instance, I think it could have played out interestingly with at least one instance of Tuluk's partisan system.