Upcoming Combat System Changes, the Details

[Pariah]

I was thinking of rolling up another character for the hungover mornings in Colombia next week.  I assume all these changes will just be behind the scenes and not something I'll be kicking myself for not waiting for?

[Brytta Léofa]

I was thinking of rolling up another character for the hungover mornings in Colombia next week.  I assume all these changes will just be behind the scenes and not something I'll be kicking myself for not waiting for?

I am personally going on the assumption that "pick a tier-1 combat class, prioritize strength" will always result in a better-than-playable combatant, both pre- and post- combat revamp.

[KakkarotYaBoi]

I'm totally behind the idea that depending on your % of total hp, and stamina, you should get combat penalties. This would help to combat realistic situations where someone gets a horrible wound and still fights like he's fresh. It would In fact force realistic RP on folks so that staff don't have to put out echos like 'You're too fucked up to keep fighting'.  Also increase stamina drains when below a certain health threshold. I also think that Waying should take way more focus and be strenuous (it would push hard for moe in person interactions, taverns, blah). But what do I know amirite?

[Brytta Léofa]

I'm totally behind the idea that depending on your % of total hp, and stamina, you should get combat penalties. This would help to combat realistic situations where someone gets a horrible wound and still fights like he's fresh. It would In fact force realistic RP on folks so that staff don't have to put out echos like 'You're too fucked up to keep fighting'.  Also increase stamina drains when below a certain health threshold.

Vibe-wise, I love this. Realism-wise, I think it checks out. The first one to land a solid hit probably wins. It makes combat less grindy and more surprising.

Game-wise, it would take a lot of rebalancing. Not just combat mechanics (backstab: now even more deadly) but also social stuff...how the game is organized around combat. It tends to push people into sparring clans, or out of the game, or locks them more solidly into their combat tier, because one gnarly scrab hit can just end your PC.

(I mean, the reel code took us in this direction. It's not an all-or-nothing proposition.)

[mansa]

Personally, I don't like the suggestion because I believe it will create habits for players to never get into those situations.   Players don't like to lose


I think there might be better uptake for the opposite - you do more damage / strike faster when your health is in the lower 20% of your total health.  Or you regenerate more movement points per tick when you're in the lower 20% of your total movement points.


I feel the stories would be better told by "HOLY CRAP I ALMOST DIED!" than being forced to run away at a higher percentage of health than you typically do.

[Jarvis]

I'm totally behind the idea that depending on your % of total hp, and stamina, you should get combat penalties. This would help to combat realistic situations where someone gets a horrible wound and still fights like he's fresh. It would In fact force realistic RP on folks so that staff don't have to put out echos like 'You're too fucked up to keep fighting'.  Also increase stamina drains when below a certain health threshold. I also think that Waying should take way more focus and be strenuous (it would push hard for moe in person interactions, taverns, blah). But what do I know amirite?

This idea makes me very happy

[Halaster]

https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,59208.0.html

[Kavrick]

Looks very interesting, what was the thought behind the decision to switch shields to agi based rather than strength?

[Halaster]

Looks very interesting, what was the thought behind the decision to switch shields to agi based rather than strength?

It wasn't so much that as it was decided that every style should get both bonuses, but some more than others.  So, every style gets a standard strength bonus, including shield use.  Shield use gets a limited agility bonus, whereas dual wield gets the full agility bonus.

[Synthesis]

I'm totally behind the idea that depending on your % of total hp, and stamina, you should get combat penalties. This would help to combat realistic situations where someone gets a horrible wound and still fights like he's fresh. It would In fact force realistic RP on folks so that staff don't have to put out echos like 'You're too fucked up to keep fighting'.  Also increase stamina drains when below a certain health threshold. I also think that Waying should take way more focus and be strenuous (it would push hard for moe in person interactions, taverns, blah). But what do I know amirite?

You'd have to rewrite the way backstab works, or backstab would be more of a win button than it already can be.  Getting someone to "badly wounded" with backstab is incredibly easy.  If you now have a huge combat skill advantage and a great starting HP advantage in the fight, it completely unbalances noob backstabbers.

[Kavrick]

I'm totally behind the idea that depending on your % of total hp, and stamina, you should get combat penalties. This would help to combat realistic situations where someone gets a horrible wound and still fights like he's fresh. It would In fact force realistic RP on folks so that staff don't have to put out echos like 'You're too fucked up to keep fighting'.  Also increase stamina drains when below a certain health threshold. I also think that Waying should take way more focus and be strenuous (it would push hard for moe in person interactions, taverns, blah). But what do I know amirite?

You'd have to rewrite the way backstab works, or backstab would be more of a win button than it already can be.  Getting someone to "badly wounded" with backstab is incredibly easy.  If you now have a huge combat skill advantage and a great starting HP advantage in the fight, it completely unbalances noob backstabbers.

I thought being injured already lowered your ability to fight? I thought that's what the 'pain tolerance' perk certain classes got helped with?

[Brokkr]

pain tolerance is "reel" resistance.

[Patuk]

I'm totally behind the idea that depending on your % of total hp, and stamina, you should get combat penalties. This would help to combat realistic situations where someone gets a horrible wound and still fights like he's fresh. It would In fact force realistic RP on folks so that staff don't have to put out echos like 'You're too fucked up to keep fighting'.  Also increase stamina drains when below a certain health threshold. I also think that Waying should take way more focus and be strenuous (it would push hard for moe in person interactions, taverns, blah). But what do I know amirite?

You'd have to rewrite the way backstab works, or backstab would be more of a win button than it already can be.  Getting someone to "badly wounded" with backstab is incredibly easy.  If you now have a huge combat skill advantage and a great starting HP advantage in the fight, it completely unbalances noob backstabbers.

Backstab, ranged weaponry, certain brands of magic.. Yeah.

[Dresan]

So, every style gets a standard strength bonus, including shield use.  Shield use gets a limited agility bonus, whereas dual wield gets the full agility bonus.

I like the idea of both twohanded and shield use getting limited agility bonus. But what does limited mean exactly when compared to normal agility damage bonus? Would you also please provide more detail on what standard strength bonus is with dual wield/shield use....for example when you have a bonus of 4 from strength?

[Halaster]

So, every style gets a standard strength bonus, including shield use.  Shield use gets a limited agility bonus, whereas dual wield gets the full agility bonus.

I like the idea of both twohanded and shield use getting limited agility bonus. But what does limited mean exactly when compared to normal agility damage bonus? Would you also please provide more detail on what standard strength bonus is with dual wield/shield use....for example when you have a bonus of 4 from strength?

It means basically shield use and two-handed get half the agility bonus.

If you have a 4 bonus from strength, then half will go towards raising the maximum damage, and half towards a flat bonus.  So if you have a sword that does 1d6 and you get a 4 bonus from strength, half (2) will go towards raising the max dice, and half (2) will go towards a flat bonus.   That works out to be 1d8+2.   All styles will get this bonus.

Two-handed then gets additional bonuses based on strength and 2-handed skill, whereas none of the other styles do.

Dual-will and one-handed will get the full agility bonus, whereas two-handed and shield use will get only half of it.  The primary change for dual wield that makes it competitive now is that the second attack has the same chance to hit as the primary.  Before these changes that isn't the case.

[Lotion]

So, every style gets a standard strength bonus, including shield use.  Shield use gets a limited agility bonus, whereas dual wield gets the full agility bonus.

I like the idea of both twohanded and shield use getting limited agility bonus. But what does limited mean exactly when compared to normal agility damage bonus? Would you also please provide more detail on what standard strength bonus is with dual wield/shield use....for example when you have a bonus of 4 from strength?

It means basically shield use and two-handed get half the agility bonus.

If you have a 4 bonus from strength, then half will go towards raising the maximum damage, and half towards a flat bonus.  So if you have a sword that does 1d6 and you get a 4 bonus from strength, half (2) will go towards raising the max dice, and half (2) will go towards a flat bonus.   That works out to be 1d8+2.   All styles will get this bonus.

Two-handed then gets additional bonuses based on strength and 2-handed skill, whereas none of the other styles do.

Dual-will and one-handed will get the full agility bonus, whereas two-handed and shield use will get only half of it.  The primary change for dual wield that makes it competitive now is that the second attack has the same chance to hit as the primary.  Before these changes that isn't the case.

I would rather see a +4 str bonus become 1d6+1d2+2 on a d6 weapon
Smaller str bonuses would still have similar oomph to how they are now while still giving larger ones the big deired range.

[Seeker]

I would rather see a +4 str bonus become 1d6+1d2+2 on a d6 weapon
Smaller str bonuses would still have similar oomph to how they are now while still giving larger ones the big deired range.

This is an interesting idea.  We often talk about that STR seems overpowered.  This might be an elegant solution if that still feels true after the combat system update changes have been tested and balanced into a stable meta.

[Inks]

The changes are a massive improvement on game balance while keeping everything distinct still, you'll like it guys, I am super impressed with how the problems got fixed and how each style is performing.

No need to speculate on OP str it is still good of course but super fairer for everyone else who didn't roll AI or a HG now.

For high strength characters they will feel more tanky vs pcs/humanoid npcs (due to the ranges and heavy armor) but less OHK gods (although they can still reach hits like before just more RNG) . Is gud.

Big big kudos. Any style is viable...finally.

[najdorf]

Agree with Inks

[Kavrick]

Easy agree, even as a new player I felt the pressure to always just 'find the biggest weapon and two hand it', but now I can feel less guilty about picking what fits the character over what's practical.