Opening All the Desert Elf Tribes Question

[Halaster]

Overall, do y'all think opening all the delf tribes was a net positive or net negative?  I personally think positive because now that it's kinda settled, people are generally playing the tribes they want and we're kinda roughly steady on delf population.  People who wanted to play delf's but were tired of SR and 2M are getting to have more options now.  Yes, it's spread the playerbase some, but I think that's "worth it".

I'm happy to be wrong, though.

[zealus]

I think positive.
For every player that would not have played the game, over playing an elf clan that now is open, it's one player that's playing the game over waiting till their clan opens. Same argument as I would make for the Karma timers.
I for one like not having to wait for a concept I'm really itching to play And with player retention as important as it is right now, draw in all we can.

[Tailong]

Im going to play devil's advocate and say net negative. People are just spread too thin over such a greater area. Why have two or three active in each clan when you could have six to eight active in a small amount of clans? I just dont think the current population is capable of supporting so many wild clans.

[Barsook]

Im going to play devil's advocate and say net negative. People are just spread too thin over such a greater area. Why have two or three active in each clan when you could have six to eight active in a small amount of clans? I just dont think the current population is capable of supporting so many wild clans.

[DesertT]

I'm down with the positive.

My only suggestion would be to allow folks to somehow know either the current active player population of delf tribes, or if there are active players in their time zone and which delf tribes they are in.

[geminferno]

Im going to play devil's advocate and say net negative. People are just spread too thin over such a greater area. Why have two or three active in each clan when you could have six to eight active in a small amount of clans? I just dont think the current population is capable of supporting so many wild clans.

Net Negative. And here's why. Let's count the open desert elf tribes, shall we?
1. Akei'Ta Var
2. Dunestalkers
3. Red Fangs
4. Soh Lanah Kah
5. Sun Runners
6. Two Moons

A total of six tribes. Why should we open more when we already have enough open as it is? Too much if you ask me. I think the amount of open tribes should be cut down to 4, at most. Our playerbase is spread so thin, as Tailong said. Rounding up how many players we have is about ~50. That's 8 people per delf tribe. That's not even counting the new Bashurit tribes.

[HazelHomewrecker]

I really enjoy having all the options for the Delf tribes opened up. So, in that area, I will say it's a net positive for versatility.

However.

Being able to have 6 open delf tribes, then only one human tribe, comes across as a little weird when it comes down to the total workload, but indie clanners have it rough because they oversee a LOT of stuff so I'm super sympathetic. I would suggest lowering the amount of delf tribes down to four, as Geminferno suggested and then rotate them around to make space for the Ara'Seik to be reopened fully in the future (by putting an additional staffer or two into Indie to help).

The entire point of the Vru'Rihali's creation was to give human tribals more options to play, and by closing the twin tribes the only thing we've done is reinforce the same problem.

[Kavrick]

Im going to play devil's advocate and say net negative. People are just spread too thin over such a greater area. Why have two or three active in each clan when you could have six to eight active in a small amount of clans? I just dont think the current population is capable of supporting so many wild clans.

This, we're talking 20 players on average split across a rediculous amount of factions, areas, cities and social locations, adding more is just going to spread an already thin playerbase thinner. I don't think you need 10 different delf clans to add a delf dynamic to the game.

[dunecrawler]

Im going to play devil's advocate and say net negative. People are just spread too thin over such a greater area. Why have two or three active in each clan when you could have six to eight active in a small amount of clans? I just dont think the current population is capable of supporting so many wild clans.

This may not be visible from the outside, but the clans aren't isolated from each other and interact quite a lot.

[Krath]

I don't think this is just a DElf issue, I think this is an every clan issue and I believe it starts with Why are the clans in the game and what purpose are they serving? What goals are the open clans working toward? If there are none, why are they open.

[whengravityfails]

Net positive, in my opinion.

As it has been said the delf clans do interact with one another quite a bit and bring a variety of different interactions with outsiders. I personally found it to be the one of the best recent changes to the game (along with analyze).

For those who think it is a negative,  I'm not entirely why since the people who would be playing in one of the tribes now would likely be playing in another delf tribe or possibly not at all. If this is an attempt to force people into cities,  I doubt it would change much of anything.

[WarriorPoet]

I like it. Net positive.  When things are bumping, even with one rando in a tribe, it is going to bring in other players. Impossible to bump when the clan is closed.

[dumbstruck]

I really enjoy having all the options for the Delf tribes opened up. So, in that area, I will say it's a net positive for versatility.

However.

Being able to have 6 open delf tribes, then only one human tribe, comes across as a little weird when it comes down to the total workload, but indie clanners have it rough because they oversee a LOT of stuff so I'm super sympathetic. I would suggest lowering the amount of delf tribes down to four, as Geminferno suggested and then rotate them around to make space for the Ara'Seik to be reopened fully in the future (by putting an additional staffer or two into Indie to help).

The entire point of the Vru'Rihali's creation was to give human tribals more options to play, and by closing the twin tribes the only thing we've done is reinforce the same problem.

Literally every point of this. Both the net positives about d-elves, and the points about the new human tribes, the Ara'Seik, and the versatility stuff. Like. Chef's kiss this so perfectly encapsulates my feelings.

[Gunnerblaster]

I'd say a Net Negative, in my opinion. Maybe 10 years ago, when the playerbase was more diverse and, well, populated but now? I think we're trying to open up even more roles to keep players interested in playing, but what's the point to playing in your favorite tribe that you've longed for, when it's just going to be you there, with minimal to no Staff involvement (since they're now being charged with Staffing for all delf tribes).

Not to overuse a LotR quote but, "thin, sort of stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread." describes the current playerbase population and the drawbacks of opening up too many options.

I regularly see the cop-out phrase, "Let players play what they want!" - Well, if everyone gets to do everything they want, when they want to do it, they'll get bored and move on once they've accomplished it. In the past, prior to the closure of Tuluk, that wasn't the case. Players played where they could fit into the world's narrative and found fun and entertainment, in that. You get nothing by trying to spoil your players.

[BadSkeelz]

I don't see any particular change coming from opening them up. As far as I know the only Delf tribe closed is Blackwing. All the current tribes just seem to blend in to each other anyway, you might as well just let people app in "Tribeless" desert elves the same way we can create "tribeless" tribals.

[Windstorm]

My experience with it has been really positive! The variety of DElf PCs in differing flavors and roles has been fun to explore and witness.

Them being in different, sometimes neighboring or interconnected tribes also prevents them all from being entirely lock-step with one another. Even if they're sometimes on the same sides, there's tensions, differences, and politics between.

They make different things, have different views, and do different things but they're all rooted in the gameworld in their own interesting ways that, admittedly, are still mostly mysterious to me personally.

That said, I feel like the Bashurit are more populated (at least by PC representation) than any of the individual DElf tribes and I'm not sure this feels world-accurate to me. It's bound to be difficult having the player numbers match up with the world realities sometimes.

[Halaster]

That said, I feel like the Bashurit are more populated (at least by PC representation) than any of the individual DElf tribes and I'm not sure this feels world-accurate to me. It's bound to be difficult having the player numbers match up with the world realities sometimes.

Yeah, we're not super worried about that though.  Players play what they want, in general.

[Patuk]

I guess I don't know. Players doing what they want is good. City roles being left out to dry is kinda bad. My opinion isn't all that strong.

[Master Color]

I played in one of these tribes. During that period, I can't say that anyone was really interested in getting into any sort of distinct tribal play. Instead it was the usual gather->hunt->bother human tribal. I found this to be rather disappointing.

[LindseyBalboa]

The entire point of the Vru'Rihali's creation was to give human tribals more options to play, and by closing the twin tribes the only thing we've done is reinforce the same problem.

I'd be fine with leaving them open, but if it's just lack of staff to oversee... I would guess that there's a lot more player interest in d-elf tribes, and that has shown in people playing d-elves, as opposed to human tribes that end up closed or combined. When I first started, the Soh and Sun Runners were open, but the Soh closed because the Two Moon were created before I had the 1 karma to try them out.

Thankfully, there's staff right now that is interested in opening and overseeing all the d-elf tribes I never got to play. I'd imagine if there's a lot of interest in the new human tribal clan for an extended amount of time, more will open, or someone who loves playing them will become staff and invest time there. The new tribe looks /interesting/ and that's cool, I think it'll get some traction.

Overall, I'd say net positive - d-elves are by their nature antagonists to the game world status quo, so by their very nature they tend to generate roleplay through trading, raiding, lying, swindling, etc.

[mansa]

I think having all the desert elf tribes open to play is a net positive.

I think allowing the playerbase population to shift to more specific desert play, unbalancing the city play, is a mistake.



If I were to put things in a chart, in terms of storylines of Zalanthas and where I want to have staff focused on:
* Allanak (and the labyrinth) should have 40% of the player population.
* Tuluk should have 30% of the player population.
* The rest of the game should have 30% of the player population.

[Kialae]

While we're at it, we should close Tuluk. The playerbase should be more consolidated, and nothing's ever gone wrong when we do that.

[ShaiHulud]

Net positive.
I think there is a good deal of roleplay between the various elven tribes, the players representing. So these players get to interact with the perhaps few in their own clan as well as other characters from the other clans, the known world being more accurately represented.  Having two tribes open only, for example, just consolidates the players together but doesn't offer more or different rp potentials.

[Halaster]

While we're at it, we should close Tuluk. The playerbase should be more consolidated, and nothing's ever gone wrong when we do that.

This is the kind of argument that's a bit childish and doesn't really benefit a discussion.  It's just pointless sarcasm.  If you have something constructive to add to the discussion, we'd love to hear it.

[Kialae]

Is it sarcasm? I'm just noting the same arguments that constantly happen here.