What would entice you to play more in the cities?

[HammerofJericho]

I love realism but I don't want the game to replicate some things because then playability becomes a concern.  Insect meat and root plants sustain Allanak via very controlled means. Flour as well but as seen in history that can get disrupted and affect in game things.

I just think the key factor is "things to do" in the city that don't always require other players.

Players hate getting stole from all the time.  Players hate getting gimped when they try in city antagonist roles.
Players hate their apartments getting robbed.

All these things are because of the fact there's no other targets in the city besides when players are the targets. More npc targets means players will work together in pve to hit up those targets and occasionally hit up other players too. It creates a balance though.

[CalmThyPalm]

Obviously people like to play gicks. If you don't want to die or be forced to be Gemmed, you can't play in the cities. So, that's kind of a huge problem.

Wait, you CAN though..? You'd just, y'know, have to not get caught doing your thing. Unless you meant 'play' as in be openly magic and cast spells without the threat of immediate death or collaring?

[Pariah]

Obviously people like to play gicks. If you don't want to die or be forced to be Gemmed, you can't play in the cities. So, that's kind of a huge problem.

Wait, you CAN though..? You'd just, y'know, have to not get caught doing your thing. Unless you meant 'play' as in be openly magic and cast spells without the threat of immediate death or collaring?

Almost every single one of my gicks plays in a city, and I think I've only been caught once.

All I'll say is be careful and remember you can dispel your spells, most of them anyways.

[Foulspawn]

Saw the recommendation about creating potential events that incentivize playing inside of the city and I couldn't agree with it more.

A few examples off the top of my head:

Spawn 'troublemaker' NPCs in the city and have a board in the AoD's place that gets updated with them. Have them range in difficulty, but basically be like "A man of X description has committed X, Y, Z crime. He's been seen on Q street. Go execute him." And bringing either him subdued or his body to a bounty collector there would reward a certain amount of coins. If these are made difficult enough, you could force players to actually coordinate instead of 1vs1'ing them.

Have NPCs in the Rinth taverns talk about 'high value targets'. "X was seen around with heavy pockets on Y street. If I were better at it, I'd go lighten their load, heh."

Spawn a small camp of scumbags outside in X and mark it on a board for the Bynners.

Mechanics like this give you a reason and a 'job to do'. You then can detach and socialize instead of being half-n-half all the time. It also brings the city to life a lot more when you see other stuff happening around (X gets nabbed by the Arm, you spot Y's pockets being taken, you see the Bynners mobilize, etc)

[Gunnerblaster]

Enemies in Cities:
So, the issue I see with this is - The game either accidentally or through some wonky code, starts duplicating these NPC's to a degree that they're just walking around, murdering other NPC's and/or PC's who are caught off-guard. A single hawk getting into Allanak is issue enough - Because it leaves behind half a dozen dead, as it is. Imagine if there were aggressive NPC's wandering around in the city. While Allanak is very rough and tumble, it's not a lawless playground for murderers. It was a bit before my time playing but I'm pretty sure the phrase "roaming Gith Death Squads" were a very big horror, at one point.

Camps of Enemies:
Making a camp of hostile NPC's would mean they'd probably all instantly walk into a room and then all fucking Hell breaks loose. Having been privy to encounters were 15~20 PC's were in a room and a hoard of NPC's entered all at once and attacked all at once, even with an incredible amount of skill - You could easily see PC's just drop instantly. If you were on the receiving end of that, not only would you be incredibly angry and frustrated - There would be no significant reason for these mobs. Organizations, like the Byn, do not need to be given automated missions to get killed on. Their primary goal is to help facilitate larger plots planned by other organizations.

Personally, I think certain GMH need to have very limited PC Hunters rolls, if any at all. The playerbase is not large enough, in my opinion, to support trying to each have their own elite unit of hunters in Kadius, Salarr, and Kurac - Then spread them out across compounds in Allanak, Tuluk, and Luirs. No offense but Kadius, for example, doesn't need PC hunters. There's just no viable reason for it, other than to give their merchant-type players more people to interact with. That's a job that is handled by their virtual hunter population.

It feels like the game is growing even larger than it was ten years ago - But the population is half of what it once was and isn't likely to see some great resurgence of players, equaling to what it was in circa 2010.

[Kialae]

This thread:

1. Stealing from people in the city is too hard so why would I play a thief?
2. I keep getting stolen from in the city so why would I want to play there?

[HazelHomewrecker]

I've long been on the side of consolidation of the playerbase.

However, Having lived through everything from Kanks, Halflings, Pre-Kryl Grey Forest, old Tuluk, Tuluk closed, re-opened Tuluk and current time frame.

I will say that if it's done incorrectly, it will just cause people to quit playing.  We saw it with how Tuluk was just closed suddenly, we dropped from 60ish folks playing to like 20-30ish.

But I do agree that the world is entirely too big for the current playerbase.  If there were ways to build "your own thing" similar to mul outpost and how it's doing it's own thing, it would be nice.  If there were places to go that offered some safety in the wilds that actually had people or a reason for people to go there, that would be nice.

I'd say the one thing that would be nice is more semi-secure storage ala apartments outside of Allanak/Tuluk.  If there were semi civilized outposts (not luirs) that rangers and hunter types could go live and congregate around.

To build upon this, I do think both allanak and tuluk should stay, I would never suggest closing them. But a good example is the sheer number of delf tribes with player counts that easily rival and are higher than the counts higher than the great merchant houses individually. This alongside how insular delves are even compared to tribal humans makes the interactions and chances to meet people in cities even lower. Like for example, we have this thread started up and during the conversation taken place here, another southern tribe has been announced, which, with no hate to Hazel, it sure seems interesting, doesn't seem like a good idea for the situation.

As for settlements, I personally love having my own little personal space to get furniture in and store things in, the fact that Luir's has no apartment options when an entire faction is based around Luir's is a very confusing point of contention for me. I understand that it was destroyed for plot related reasons but from an ooc perspective the lack of alternative is strange to me.

I think the cities should RELY on things from outdoors, like meat, bones, shell etc.

Or there should be shortages in the bars, grocery etc.

Right now these shops just magically re-up all their food and materials.

If there was a centralized gathering point similar to obsidian buyer, but for food and materials and the game took that into account, you could have starvation, you could have shortages of raw materials all stuff that would realistically happen if Allanak were a true city.

If say there was a meat wholesalers, and he bought meat based on need or availability and the price fluctuated, it would be essentially the starts of an in game stock market driven by supply and demand.

100% I don't think city foraging should be able to replace wilderness foraging. It's hard to say exactly, but some sort of resource that could only be found in the city would be nice. Also the whole thing with the way NPC shops are right now is pretty messy and I don't really know how I would personally fix it.

You seem to have this really odd misconception about the reasoning behind why the new human tribe is being opened. It has nothing to do with the current city problems, and was brought up/in development since before the updates to cities were being discussed openly on the GDB/Discord. I submitted the idea way back in november, 3+ months ago, and since then it's been relatively under wraps until recently--which is no fault to anyone, it was holiday season and everyone was busy with various other things and rpt's and projects that it wasn't super hyped up or anything.

It hasn't been made to 'solve' any existing problems in the game, it was made because the topic was brought up about expanding on or opening up more human tribe and I took Shabago up on the offer he gave out to everyone: if you want to see something in the game, put in a request. Regardless, opening up this new tribe does NOT dilute the player base. They're located in a popular region close to a central hub with helpfile documentation stating that they are not 'insular' in terms of interacting with other people or races in-game.

[Kavrick]

You seem to have this really odd misconception about the reasoning behind why the new human tribe is being opened. It has nothing to do with the current city problems, and was brought up/in development since before the updates to cities were being discussed openly on the GDB/Discord. I submitted the idea way back in november, 3+ months ago, and since then it's been relatively under wraps until recently--which is no fault to anyone, it was holiday season and everyone was busy with various other things and rpt's and projects that it wasn't super hyped up or anything.

It hasn't been made to 'solve' any existing problems in the game, it was made because the topic was brought up about expanding on or opening up more human tribe and I took Shabago up on the offer he gave out to everyone: if you want to see something in the game, put in a request. Regardless, opening up this new tribe does NOT dilute the player base. They're located in a popular region close to a central hub with helpfile documentation stating that they are not 'insular' in terms of interacting with other people or races in-game.

That wasn't my assumption, it was more strange timing and was more meant to be more of an off-comment. As I did say, delf tribes imo are worse for interaction due to the insular nature and normal human tribes tend to be actually quite social so I don't have an issue with it.

[HazelHomewrecker]

You seem to have this really odd misconception about the reasoning behind why the new human tribe is being opened. It has nothing to do with the current city problems, and was brought up/in development since before the updates to cities were being discussed openly on the GDB/Discord. I submitted the idea way back in november, 3+ months ago, and since then it's been relatively under wraps until recently--which is no fault to anyone, it was holiday season and everyone was busy with various other things and rpt's and projects that it wasn't super hyped up or anything.

It hasn't been made to 'solve' any existing problems in the game, it was made because the topic was brought up about expanding on or opening up more human tribe and I took Shabago up on the offer he gave out to everyone: if you want to see something in the game, put in a request. Regardless, opening up this new tribe does NOT dilute the player base. They're located in a popular region close to a central hub with helpfile documentation stating that they are not 'insular' in terms of interacting with other people or races in-game.

That wasn't my assumption, it was more strange timing and was more meant to be more of an off-comment. As I did say, delf tribes imo are worse for interaction due to the insular nature and normal human tribes tend to be actually quite social so I don't have an issue with it.

If that wasn't your intention, then I apologize for interpreting it that way. I am quick to defend myself.

[Kavrick]

If that wasn't your intention, then I apologize for interpreting it that way. I am quick to defend myself.

It's all good! As long as people are willing to talk out misunderstandings, there's no issue.

[whengravityfails]

Obviously people like to play gicks. If you don't want to die or be forced to be Gemmed, you can't play in the cities. So, that's kind of a huge problem.

Wait, you CAN though..? You'd just, y'know, have to not get caught doing your thing. Unless you meant 'play' as in be openly magic and cast spells without the threat of immediate death or collaring?

Almost every single one of my gicks plays in a city, and I think I've only been caught once.

All I'll say is be careful and remember you can dispel your spells, most of them anyways.

I know I can dispel my spells, that's not the issue (nor openly casting in a city). Which means this is perhaps not a complaint to be addressed in this thread, if at all.

[Master Color]

Part of the problem is that you're not really going to be using magick in the city anyways. There are a couple exceptions , but if you pop in as a generic magicker, your magick will help you with combat, navigation, traversal etc. These are not the things that city bound players can necessarily utilize.

[Foulspawn]

Enemies in Cities:
So, the issue I see with this is - The game either accidentally or through some wonky code, starts duplicating these NPC's to a degree that they're just walking around, murdering other NPC's and/or PC's who are caught off-guard. A single hawk getting into Allanak is issue enough - Because it leaves behind half a dozen dead, as it is. Imagine if there were aggressive NPC's wandering around in the city. While Allanak is very rough and tumble, it's not a lawless playground for murderers. It was a bit before my time playing but I'm pretty sure the phrase "roaming Gith Death Squads" were a very big horror, at one point.

Camps of Enemies:
Making a camp of hostile NPC's would mean they'd probably all instantly walk into a room and then all fucking Hell breaks loose. Having been privy to encounters were 15~20 PC's were in a room and a hoard of NPC's entered all at once and attacked all at once, even with an incredible amount of skill - You could easily see PC's just drop instantly. If you were on the receiving end of that, not only would you be incredibly angry and frustrated - There would be no significant reason for these mobs. Organizations, like the Byn, do not need to be given automated missions to get killed on. Their primary goal is to help facilitate larger plots planned by other organizations.

Personally, I think certain GMH need to have very limited PC Hunters rolls, if any at all. The playerbase is not large enough, in my opinion, to support trying to each have their own elite unit of hunters in Kadius, Salarr, and Kurac - Then spread them out across compounds in Allanak, Tuluk, and Luirs. No offense but Kadius, for example, doesn't need PC hunters. There's just no viable reason for it, other than to give their merchant-type players more people to interact with. That's a job that is handled by their virtual hunter population.

It feels like the game is growing even larger than it was ten years ago - But the population is half of what it once was and isn't likely to see some great resurgence of players, equaling to what it was in circa 2010.

They aren't attacking anyone or even aggressive. They'd be the Nervous Man from Mount and Blade, basically. They need to be engaged, not the other way around. Just because they're wanted doesn't mean they're out for wanton blood.

As for the camps, you can go around the issue with a tiered location. A few rooms, each has some NPCs in it that are set to just stick in that room (kind of how guards do at gates) and you'd go in and clear them out. Yes, the Byn facilitate larger plots, but a lot of people aren't around for those larger plots because it's 3 AM for them when these start.

[Ibzie]

Enemies in Cities:
So, the issue I see with this is - The game either accidentally or through some wonky code, starts duplicating these NPC's to a degree that they're just walking around, murdering other NPC's and/or PC's who are caught off-guard. A single hawk getting into Allanak is issue enough - Because it leaves behind half a dozen dead, as it is. Imagine if there were aggressive NPC's wandering around in the city. While Allanak is very rough and tumble, it's not a lawless playground for murderers. It was a bit before my time playing but I'm pretty sure the phrase "roaming Gith Death Squads" were a very big horror, at one point.

Camps of Enemies:
Making a camp of hostile NPC's would mean they'd probably all instantly walk into a room and then all fucking Hell breaks loose. Having been privy to encounters were 15~20 PC's were in a room and a hoard of NPC's entered all at once and attacked all at once, even with an incredible amount of skill - You could easily see PC's just drop instantly. If you were on the receiving end of that, not only would you be incredibly angry and frustrated - There would be no significant reason for these mobs. Organizations, like the Byn, do not need to be given automated missions to get killed on. Their primary goal is to help facilitate larger plots planned by other organizations.

Personally, I think certain GMH need to have very limited PC Hunters rolls, if any at all. The playerbase is not large enough, in my opinion, to support trying to each have their own elite unit of hunters in Kadius, Salarr, and Kurac - Then spread them out across compounds in Allanak, Tuluk, and Luirs. No offense but Kadius, for example, doesn't need PC hunters. There's just no viable reason for it, other than to give their merchant-type players more people to interact with. That's a job that is handled by their virtual hunter population.

It feels like the game is growing even larger than it was ten years ago - But the population is half of what it once was and isn't likely to see some great resurgence of players, equaling to what it was in circa 2010.

Enemies in cities need not be aggressive. You already have thief NPCs. All you'd need to do is set them to occasionally do an emote about them harassing VNPCs, tell AoD to smack them, set a spawner location which could be a suddenly appear 'dungeon'. Essentially, have 7-8 places in Nak that could spawn a 'spawner', have AoD essentially conduct raids, take these out. Despite these enemies not actually being hostile, they'd add a bit of flavour to the world, and if the AoD let them get out of control then staff could potentially have fun with this.

There's this weird concept with immersive MUDs where the thought that more intractability with the world and NPCs will lead to less PC interaction. I've played MUDs where the focus is fighting mobs and there's plenty of roleplay. The point is: people come here to roleplay and more world interaction won't change that. The people that come here to twink and focus on mechanics will do that no matter how much you try to limit their options to.

With that being said: it'd be neat to have plenty of vNPC jobs! Stuff that'd lightly increase related skills and earn you a tiny amount of money. As it stands, if I need another PC to do X, that practically takes up all my time. I might be having a really fun scene but... there's that person I need, scene done and whenever my skills aren't going up, it feels like I'm falling behind. If you're part of a guild, that guild should have some work for you! Byn and AoD should have combat missions, a tiny payout, a bit of skill training. It's not like this isn't already a thing, spider nests need to be actively destroyed, a task that tends to fall on the Byn or AoD, so making it a more active thing would be neat! Besides, no one is saying you have to go at this alone. You can roleplay and have ~fun~ with other players!

'Byn-bro, let us ride out and take out some raiders and make awesome emotes! We can even do a power-handshake afterwards and flex on how cool we were!'

Furthermore, this should extend to all other clans, not just combat clans. There must be some vNPC wanting a specific piece of gear from Salarr, right? Get on it, crafters! Heck. If you want to go further, have it require a random assortment of materials so hunters have a specific thing to look out for so the crafters can make a greatsword... needing three spider legs? What? Anywho! that!

If you want to extend such a system even *further*, have generic clan that would act as associated job people can do even when they're not part of a clan. A street doctor healing the impoverished from pennies. You inspect the patient and discern they need [ingredient, ingredient, ingredient]. Now those tablets of random ingredients have a use!

And heck, let those poor crafters have a moveable workshop. Let them set up a bazaar mat that's incredibly difficult to steal from and can only be set up in the outdoors. Let it act like a workshop. They leave it in their apartment, roll it up in the morning, set it up in the bazaar, and roleplay while actively working on their crafts. Set up the occasional 'yell' so PCs come by and gawk at their awesome stuff.

'How much for this doo-da?'

[LindseyBalboa]

Obviously people like to play gicks. If you don't want to die or be forced to be Gemmed, you can't play in the cities. So, that's kind of a huge problem.

Wait, you CAN though..? You'd just, y'know, have to not get caught doing your thing. Unless you meant 'play' as in be openly magic and cast spells without the threat of immediate death or collaring?

Almost every single one of my gicks plays in a city, and I think I've only been caught once.

All I'll say is be careful and remember you can dispel your spells, most of them anyways.

just here to reinforce this attitude instead of the most definitely incorrect "gicks can't play in the city" I've seen a few times in this thread

EDIT: I kept reading and it looks like that wasn't quite the right point that I responded to. It is definitely feasible to just be careful and gick around, though.

[racurtne]

Enemies in Cities:
So, the issue I see with this is - The game either accidentally or through some wonky code, starts duplicating these NPC's to a degree that they're just walking around, murdering other NPC's and/or PC's who are caught off-guard. A single hawk getting into Allanak is issue enough - Because it leaves behind half a dozen dead, as it is. Imagine if there were aggressive NPC's wandering around in the city. While Allanak is very rough and tumble, it's not a lawless playground for murderers. It was a bit before my time playing but I'm pretty sure the phrase "roaming Gith Death Squads" were a very big horror, at one point.

Camps of Enemies:
Making a camp of hostile NPC's would mean they'd probably all instantly walk into a room and then all fucking Hell breaks loose. Having been privy to encounters were 15~20 PC's were in a room and a hoard of NPC's entered all at once and attacked all at once, even with an incredible amount of skill - You could easily see PC's just drop instantly. If you were on the receiving end of that, not only would you be incredibly angry and frustrated - There would be no significant reason for these mobs. Organizations, like the Byn, do not need to be given automated missions to get killed on. Their primary goal is to help facilitate larger plots planned by other organizations.

Personally, I think certain GMH need to have very limited PC Hunters rolls, if any at all. The playerbase is not large enough, in my opinion, to support trying to each have their own elite unit of hunters in Kadius, Salarr, and Kurac - Then spread them out across compounds in Allanak, Tuluk, and Luirs. No offense but Kadius, for example, doesn't need PC hunters. There's just no viable reason for it, other than to give their merchant-type players more people to interact with. That's a job that is handled by their virtual hunter population.

It feels like the game is growing even larger than it was ten years ago - But the population is half of what it once was and isn't likely to see some great resurgence of players, equaling to what it was in circa 2010.

Enemies in cities need not be aggressive. You already have thief NPCs. All you'd need to do is set them to occasionally do an emote about them harassing VNPCs, tell AoD to smack them, set a spawner location which could be a suddenly appear 'dungeon'. Essentially, have 7-8 places in Nak that could spawn a 'spawner', have AoD essentially conduct raids, take these out. Despite these enemies not actually being hostile, they'd add a bit of flavour to the world, and if the AoD let them get out of control then staff could potentially have fun with this.

There's this weird concept with immersive MUDs where the thought that more intractability with the world and NPCs will lead to less PC interaction. I've played MUDs where the focus is fighting mobs and there's plenty of roleplay. The point is: people come here to roleplay and more world interaction won't change that. The people that come here to twink and focus on mechanics will do that no matter how much you try to limit their options to.

With that being said: it'd be neat to have plenty of vNPC jobs! Stuff that'd lightly increase related skills and earn you a tiny amount of money. As it stands, if I need another PC to do X, that practically takes up all my time. I might be having a really fun scene but... there's that person I need, scene done and whenever my skills aren't going up, it feels like I'm falling behind. If you're part of a guild, that guild should have some work for you! Byn and AoD should have combat missions, a tiny payout, a bit of skill training. It's not like this isn't already a thing, spider nests need to be actively destroyed, a task that tends to fall on the Byn or AoD, so making it a more active thing would be neat! Besides, no one is saying you have to go at this alone. You can roleplay and have ~fun~ with other players!

'Byn-bro, let us ride out and take out some raiders and make awesome emotes! We can even do a power-handshake afterwards and flex on how cool we were!'

Furthermore, this should extend to all other clans, not just combat clans. There must be some vNPC wanting a specific piece of gear from Salarr, right? Get on it, crafters! Heck. If you want to go further, have it require a random assortment of materials so hunters have a specific thing to look out for so the crafters can make a greatsword... needing three spider legs? What? Anywho! that!

If you want to extend such a system even *further*, have generic clan that would act as associated job people can do even when they're not part of a clan. A street doctor healing the impoverished from pennies. You inspect the patient and discern they need [ingredient, ingredient, ingredient]. Now those tablets of random ingredients have a use!

And heck, let those poor crafters have a moveable workshop. Let them set up a bazaar mat that's incredibly difficult to steal from and can only be set up in the outdoors. Let it act like a workshop. They leave it in their apartment, roll it up in the morning, set it up in the bazaar, and roleplay while actively working on their crafts. Set up the occasional 'yell' so PCs come by and gawk at their awesome stuff.

'How much for this doo-da?'

Having things to DO while roleplaying facilitates more and better RP. Agreed. More variety of coded activities to do. In the city is my main solution I think.

[DesertT]

As I said in General on Discord the other day, I can only steal that small bag with dyes and a sewing needle so many times. 

Also, what's with not being able to see at night in the City?  So if you want to be a thief in the night, you have to wait for the PERFECT night.  Too windy?  Welp, not tonight.  Now to wait another 90 minutes to see if the weather's better tomorrow night.  Damnit!  Too windy again.  Another 90 minute wait.  OH!!!  NO WIND!!!  Crap... No Moons Either!!  Another 90.

Could we up the visibility fact in the Cities by one notch?  So if it's just lightly blowing, you can actually STILL SEE?!?!  At least in the room you're in.  Maybe not a full room away.

Also, speaking of NPCs, these mobs don't have to be aggressive.  As I mentioned before, they could be a Noble moving from Arboretum to the noble quarter, or a GMH agent moving from the Bazaar to their estate.  And it doesn't have to be every IC day.  Maybe once per IC month, the Nenyuki agent makes a hefty move in broad daylight with a couple of half-giants.

Maybe a Nenyuki agent collects rent from the various apartment building on twice per IC month at certain times, yielding smaller results depending on the quality of the apartments.

Maybe a small gang of 1, 2, or 3 NPCs pops up in one of the alleys in the Commoner's Quarter and they hang-out and shake people down who walk through, but only in the alleys.  Then maybe they disperse after an IC day or two, finding a new alley.  Or maybe an NPC burglar can be found on the rooftops with a bit of loot.

These don't all have to be aggressive to the point of taking over a portion of the city.

Maybe a drovian gets out of hand in an alley in the Magicker Quarter and summons... something.

Anyway, these are all just ideas to help drive more PvE interactions within the Cities that'll help reduce the amount of PvP forced interactions.  The outside has LOADS of PvE opportunities.  If we could introduce some of those into the Cities, not necessarily all aggressive either, but just give the cities some additional life outside of the assumed vNPC population and the NPC mul that's dragging rock down the road.

ALSO!!!

What if the Gaj received an update where one side of the wall in the tavern was a crafting table?  Or maybe the smoking pits?  Either way, if crafters had a place to craft a bit and not get harassed for breaking rock on the bar, that'd be FANTASTIC!!

Oh, and if a penalty were established for those in the smoking pits / crafting area, that would be ideal.  It's one thing to have a bunch of people standing around a bar trying to buy drinks; it's quite another to have a bunch of people standing all around you while trying to make an onyx tentacle for your silk-clad aide lover.

[Pariah]

I just craft at the gaj all the time.

I've had people say something then I point at the vomit on the floor of the guy pissing on the wall and go, "The pieces of bone is really what's ruining your bar crawl?"

I'm not sure where the supposed rule of you can't craft in bars came from.

[Armaddict]

I'm not sure where the supposed rule of you can't craft in bars came from.

Ironically, it came about in a time where taverns were not always full, but there was 'primetime' where everyone was hanging out in taverns and it got spammy.  Clan compounds were underused, apartments were much less available, and people wanted the combination of less spam and more clan compound use.  It was never a 'rule', just something that people started making a point of talking about.

[Kialae]

I just craft at the gaj all the time.

I've had people say something then I point at the vomit on the floor of the guy pissing on the wall and go, "The pieces of bone is really what's ruining your bar crawl?"

I'm not sure where the supposed rule of you can't craft in bars came from.

My friend got driven away from this game because a staff member decided to pick on her for crafting in a tavern. Made a really big fucking song and dance about it that embarrassed and infuriated her.

[Tailong]

ALSO!!!

What if the Gaj received an update where one side of the wall in the tavern was a crafting table?  Or maybe the smoking pits?  Either way, if crafters had a place to craft a bit and not get harassed for breaking rock on the bar, that'd be FANTASTIC!!

Oh, and if a penalty were established for those in the smoking pits / crafting area, that would be ideal.  It's one thing to have a bunch of people standing around a bar trying to buy drinks; it's quite another to have a bunch of people standing all around you while trying to make an onyx tentacle for your silk-clad aide lover.

Eww..no. Bars are not for crafting. Its actually bad form, chipping shit all over the fucking place. Its like cooking a grilled steak. Just because it doesn't require a fire, should you still cook it like magic?

[Riev]

ALSO!!!

What if the Gaj received an update where one side of the wall in the tavern was a crafting table?  Or maybe the smoking pits?  Either way, if crafters had a place to craft a bit and not get harassed for breaking rock on the bar, that'd be FANTASTIC!!

Oh, and if a penalty were established for those in the smoking pits / crafting area, that would be ideal.  It's one thing to have a bunch of people standing around a bar trying to buy drinks; it's quite another to have a bunch of people standing all around you while trying to make an onyx tentacle for your silk-clad aide lover.

Eww..no. Bars are not for crafting. Its actually bad form, chipping shit all over the fucking place. Its like cooking a grilled steak. Just because it doesn't require a fire, should you still cook it like magic?

Yes. If there is a justifiable flame, or maybe a flat hot slate stone. Or shale.

Yes.

[Kavrick]

Sometimes you gotta make small exceptions for the sake of a positive experience. I'll usually tip the bartender if I make a mess but it's a little counter-constructive to be like "more people should rp in bars" but then also relegate crafters (the people most likely to be in a city) To sit by themselves in a workshop and just silently craft without being able to way. Me moving to a bar to craft is going to add more to the game and the rp scene than me holding up in a room solo crafting.

[Tuannon]

I'm fine with people getting shitty at crafting in bars if the bar is full or has more than say four PCs in it.

[dumbstruck]

ALSO!!!

What if the Gaj received an update where one side of the wall in the tavern was a crafting table?  Or maybe the smoking pits?  Either way, if crafters had a place to craft a bit and not get harassed for breaking rock on the bar, that'd be FANTASTIC!!

Oh, and if a penalty were established for those in the smoking pits / crafting area, that would be ideal.  It's one thing to have a bunch of people standing around a bar trying to buy drinks; it's quite another to have a bunch of people standing all around you while trying to make an onyx tentacle for your silk-clad aide lover.

Eww..no. Bars are not for crafting. Its actually bad form, chipping shit all over the fucking place. Its like cooking a grilled steak. Just because it doesn't require a fire, should you still cook it like magic?

I absolutely will, and have often rped out building a tiny fire for it in the past before there were so many cooking craftables that required a coded fire, but now that there are ones that require a coded fire? Honestly? I don't typically emote about it. But, that said, I'm sort of agreement on the crafting in bars thing. Honestly I don't give a crap if people do it. I'm just... so bored with barp to begin with that you're unlikely to find any of my characters being RPed in a tavern much, crafting or otherwise. I mean, for the first 8 years or so I played? Yeah, you could find me in this or that tavern a fair amount of the time looking to make contacts, wheel and deal, talk, whatever. The last 8 years? Not as much, I know either the contacts will come with time and feel more organic for it or not. There's only so many times you can talk about the same shit with the same people and pretend it's different or meaningful (One of the downsides people don't talk about about people shifting to having the majority having longer lived pcs, they are around forever. Sometimes I'll know one pc with ten of mine and them not be one of the exceptionally long, like multiple rl years lived, pcs, too). No offense, and not meant as a critique in any fashion of anyone's rp. I'd rather be out there finding/creating/exploring things that give meaning, and Waying about it than sitting on a barstool IG.