What would entice you to play more in the cities?

[Inks]

What would entice me more?

Less murderous Templars, nobody wants to play around Judge Dredd.

One had hand broken for making a joke with a superior, that is fine and I appreciate not being murdered for it, but I don't really enjoy that subservient roleplay back to back, so I maybe play 1/3 or 1/4 of pcs as city pcs.

As a soldier PC your own leaders are the most dangerous thing to you even if you want to play the slightest bit corrupt, corrupt law enforcement are more realistic in a world like this than non corrupt, in my opinion.

I'm talking about Allanak of course, I have always said Tuluk templars needed nilazi antimagick stuff on them instead of what they get. No (or barely any) criminals in Tuluk makes it more boring for me, and the Templars can really sort out any problem themselves.

More stuff to do within the city would entice me though, more fun and productive activities for citizens of both cities.

[Krath]

Bebop's post, like always, got me thinking. Maybe it is time for the city states to go and turn the world into outpost and villages. It would allow you to actually have that sense of community and closeness people have spoken about, and it would allow the players to start making alliances with other villages for goods and supplies. Leave Luirs outpost as the last great stronghold, where where all the merchants reside.

I was skeptical about the Mul outpost deal, but right now I think it works and is an excellent idea of what this game could and should be, people working together towards a common goal.

I dunno, just a thought

[BadSkeelz]

They'll just all turn in to Hogwarts too. It'd be very hard to balance thematically. I'm not sure more wish-fulfillment power fantasies are the answers. Templars living those have made cities almost unbearable, and now the wilds are going the same way.

More places for players to band together and work towards goals that aren't wiping out other PC Groups would be ideal, both in and out of cities. With how combat in Armageddon works, as soon as you have one sufficiently powerful group it's nearly impossible for the competition to catch up. People need more PVE opportunities to work towards, as a group.

[Bebop]

Is that a bad thing?  Not necessarily.  But as support continues to focus on those outside of the city, it doesn't surprise me that players aren't being incentivized to play in cities.  Personally, I'm unsure how thematic it is for PCs and factions successfully enacting messages of freedom and individualism in a feudal, collective society is.  It's not to say it can't be and I can definitely see it being a fringe movement but's currently a huge part of the game.

That's also a big simple answer of why people are slipping from the cities.  Before there was a tension where if you didn't fit in in the city, your options were (as they should be thematically) limited.  You had to play the game and mind yours ps and qs with the templarate.  When there are multiple powerful factions in game allowing you to circumvent that, why live in the city permanently?

I wanted to add three other things to my post.

1) This dynamic of having so many democratic, free the people, or "mini GMH nobles" in the game not only makes it incredibly difficult to inspire people to play in the cities when there is so much other enticing things going on but it also makes leadership in the role funnel towards a lack of conflict.  As I said you've got city-states now vying for the friendship, power or at least cooperation of the outlying factions instead of the GMH begging the cities to let them into their economy and the small factions begging not to be wiped out.  Instead of people inspiring conflict or standing their ground, the game meta seems to be I just befriend everyone or act like I befriend everyone.  That is not very combat or conflict heavy.

I don't think, as it stands, that's thematic to the lore that we have.  We either need to shift back to the city-states having power and being hubs of vast influence or we have to, as Krath said, just treat the city-states like another random faction in game/disband which... I don't think anyone wants to see.  Or at least I don't.

2) This dynamic makes things INCREDIBLY hard for leaders like templars or nobility, who already don't get a ton of interaction sometimes.  It basically puts the players of these roles in weird positions where they are supposed to be powerful, corrupt, and have a place in game to create (hopefully slowburn, quality) RP and makes it so that they have been neutered and are instead vying for the power and friendship of smaller factions.  It's backwards.

I feel bad for these roles, having played several leadership roles myself.  People want them to be fun, but not too over the top.  They want them to start conflict but the conflict they want - and just enough.  They want templars to be scary, but not so scary they push people inadvertently away.  They want people to last, and not kill to many people but engage them in conflict. 

It puts PC nobles and templars square in the role of being forced to be a villain and not one with a lot of mobility.  They are given the skills they're given, they're stuck in their cities and they are forced to be reactive.  When this trickles down, it makes cities in general an odd place to roleplay, where in order to ensure people don't leave and such now templars and leaders are placating underlings, not leaving them.  Which brings me to...

3) Exile and Power in the world over all.  Back in the day, I got exiled more than a few times.  Or perhaps I was a criminal that fled either city.  Luirs was not a scot free option for fleeing.  Because the GMH wanted to maintain business in the all powerful city-states a Templar could often pay them to off the character in question.  They had reach.  And many times, before GMH began to feel like mini-nobility they would oblige.  Now, because of the individualistic nature of the GMH, and having the Outpost and the Free People in the south there are so many ways to simply defy the cities.  The reach of the cities simply does not go as far as it once did.

If people can't have direct power, they like to have power by proxy.  The small factions enable this.  The city-states don't even currently have many ways to empower their templars, much less those that want to role play their loyalty to them.

Something only has as much worth as you say it has worth.  If the cities are going to be representative of a major force they have to be represented as that by staff in game.  They have to have reach.  The GMH have to want to appease them.  Uprising factions have to have a reason to fear them.  Otherwise, what is the point of there being city-states if they are represented IG as equal to the others in social equity and player numbers?

[BadSkeelz]

GMH would probably be more keen on engaging with the cities if the Templar-players weren't so keen on antagonizing them. I can think of at least one GMH who got killed simply so the Templar in question could have a fancy knife for free. This eventually (I believe) prompted some pretty serious IC responses just to rein in such behavior.

[LindseyBalboa]

I really liked the Den of Wonders because it did something the game really needs to make Allanak viable, I think:

it gave a place for criminal PCs to go and hang out and /generally/ not worry about lawful PCs arresting them. They could co-exist for a while. My criminal elf PC smoked spice in there constantly, to the dismay of the staff sometimes admittedly; once hid out in the latrine from the law; pretty sure I pulled a knife on someone in there and ended up not friends but yknow not enemies; and it's probably the only place he'd sit down on the south side because it didn't ever seem like any more trouble would erupt than 1v1.

Even if it could, who knows. But that was my impression of that bar and I think that vibe is very necessary. Rinthi elf PCs literally risk their lives going south to roleplay every time they go, which is fine, but there should be one place that they can go safely and also the types of PCs that would pick on them feel safe because they're not quite in the rinth, they're just... really close. it's lawful ish.

Connecting the smaller populations in the same city together in a manner where they can roleplay with a reasonable expectation of no consequence for simply being there is my suggestion to allow more interaction inside Allanak.

[Olverdirn]

A few people have hit on these ideas already.  To me, one of the things that makes wilderness life more desirable than city life is the ability to go out and do something productive even when no other PCs are around.  A city PC is kind of stuck waiting on other PCs to make things happen.  Some in the thread have commented that there should be more PvE in the city and/or new things to do.

Some ideas:
-Add some NPC thugs to the city.  Think rinthi-style muggers in the alleys between the main streets.  This would give soldiers something to go do.
-Add some nobles or merchant npcs that walk around and can be mugged by PCs
-Add a NPC that is a rogue magicker in some hard-to-find room
-Add a merchant that sells pinches of spice in some alleyway.  Give him his own guard in case the soldier type wants to arrest him.

Would these create immersive plots that make the game for someone?  Probably not.  But if you give PCs things to do when there are no other PCs around, eventually there are enough PCs in an area that plots will start happening.

[Riev]

A few people have hit on these ideas already.  To me, one of the things that makes wilderness life more desirable than city life is the ability to go out and do something productive even when no other PCs are around.  A city PC is kind of stuck waiting on other PCs to make things happen.  Some in the thread have commented that there should be more PvE in the city and/or new things to do.

Some ideas:
-Add some NPC thugs to the city.  Think rinthi-style muggers in the alleys between the main streets.  This would give soldiers something to go do.
-Add some nobles or merchant npcs that walk around and can be mugged by PCs
-Add a NPC that is a rogue magicker in some hard-to-find room
-Add a merchant that sells pinches of spice in some alleyway.  Give him his own guard in case the soldier type wants to arrest him.

Would these create immersive plots that make the game for someone?  Probably not.  But if you give PCs things to do when there are no other PCs around, eventually there are enough PCs in an area that plots will start happening.

I've suggested before, and it seems time to suggest again:

Add the Wilderness Raider NPC code/Jakhak Den Code to cities in some manner. Undertuluk, Rinth, etc. Create occasional havens where NPC criminals will reside who, at night, will patrol a path and become aggressive. Give the militia something to do, make the streets a little more unsafe at night, etc.

[Kankfly]

A few people have hit on these ideas already.  To me, one of the things that makes wilderness life more desirable than city life is the ability to go out and do something productive even when no other PCs are around.  A city PC is kind of stuck waiting on other PCs to make things happen.  Some in the thread have commented that there should be more PvE in the city and/or new things to do.

Some ideas:
-Add some NPC thugs to the city.  Think rinthi-style muggers in the alleys between the main streets.  This would give soldiers something to go do.
-Add some nobles or merchant npcs that walk around and can be mugged by PCs
-Add a NPC that is a rogue magicker in some hard-to-find room
-Add a merchant that sells pinches of spice in some alleyway.  Give him his own guard in case the soldier type wants to arrest him.

Would these create immersive plots that make the game for someone?  Probably not.  But if you give PCs things to do when there are no other PCs around, eventually there are enough PCs in an area that plots will start happening.

I've suggested before, and it seems time to suggest again:

Add the Wilderness Raider NPC code/Jakhak Den Code to cities in some manner. Undertuluk, Rinth, etc. Create occasional havens where NPC criminals will reside who, at night, will patrol a path and become aggressive. Give the militia something to do, make the streets a little more unsafe at night, etc.

Something equivalent to the jakhal dens but are actually illegal speakeasies (with two or three pinches of spice offered for sale) in Allanak seems like a really awesome idea. The 'search' skill can be utilized more.

[valeria]

When there's fun stuff going on in cities, people play in cities.  Anyone remember SpiderPlot in Allanak back in the day?  I bet Case does.  Anyway, that was a lot of fun, and you could only be in on it if you were actually in Allanak.

A lot of this is a player culture issue.  People don't want nobles at taverns, but they want nobles to be more visible.  Ya'll can't have it both ways, or maybe these are mixed messages, I don't know.  The thing about nobles is that they need minions because they literally can't do jack shit.  Few people want to play noble minions because it's an invitation to just get killed or shat on.  Nobles can't really protect their minions, even though they ought to be able to.  *shrug emoji*

Nobles shouldn't get socially punished for being in public and having fun.  That's a culture issue, not a coded one.

The same things with templars leaping to killing people instead of having an antagonist around.  That's a cultural issue, not a coded one.  Not every templar is like that, but a few bad apples have really ruined the bunch as far as that goes.  Perception is reality.

That templar role call where there were a shit ton of responses make it clear that people want to play templars.  Again, options are good.  Maybe templars need to put in a TPS report before they're allowed to kill players instead of after.  Maybe require them to wish up and get approval if not put in a request.  Maybe it should be made known to the players at large that that's the new system so that they might give cities another go.  Yeah, it's not on theme.  But you know what else is not on theme?  Not having many players in cities.

Moving on.  People sit in private areas to craft because there aren't good public crafting spaces.  The new (to me at least) crafting system is very neat.  It's uncool to craft in taverns, because crafting can be spammy, resulting in a lot of people just crafting in their insert-storage-space-here (apartment probably).  There are rental crafting areas, like you can rent the spider silk place, or you could the last time I was playing, or you could rent a clay hall.

If you make crafting spaces require rent and be behind locked doors, how are you ever going to see if there are people in there to interact with?  However, if you had a visible public space for crafters to gather, they'd gather there.  Or at least I would.  I once played a jeweler who crafted on a bench outside the Red's Retreat and you better believe people would hang out a minute and talk, at least until I needed too many tools and materials to conceivably carry and had to get an apartment and could no longer be visible.  Maybe have a crafting space where crafters can rent keys to have a place to store a very limited amount of material and their tools, I don't know.  Or be able to rent tools for one or two coins, provided that you give them back.  What crafters have now is rent apartment to store materials, stay in apartment to access materials.  That doesn't make interaction easy.

Edit to add: Oh, and you can't send a way without breaking concentration.  That's really dumb and, again, cuts down on interaction.

City types are often crafty types.  I don't know how long I've rallied against the idea of only being able to sell a limited number of things to shops and instead having that work on a sliding scale, but it would probably result in more materials being available in cities and result in more hunters coming into the cities to sell their extra bones.  I can't tell you how many times I left a pile of bones just out in the wildnerness because the materials shop buys five bones.  That's really dumb ya'll.  That person in Elfville (I forget the name) who always takes extra things for a lower price, why is that guy not everywhere?  I used to drag stuff from Elf Camp to him all the time.  It was another thing to do and it didn't pay a lot but coins incentivize people.

Supply and demand 2024.

Especially with the economy tweaks, where you can't sell six tents and make 6000 coins.

I like the idea of bar focus.  You know where it isn't fun to lie on the ground because you're trying to way someone?  The bar.  You know where you can do that?  Your apartment/merchant compound/noble compound.  In my opinion, the focus change, which was probably meant to make people interact more, has incentivized in completely the wrong direction.  When I have to lay on my GMH couch to way everyone and their brother about their orders that I can't fill because I have no crafters to fill them, I'm not out in public.

Finally, get over this idea that there are too many options or we should start closing stuff to forcibly shrink people to a certain thing.  You can't force people to do things they don't want to do.  If it's more enticing to play outside the cities, people are going to play there.  If you force the people who like to play in the cities outside the cities, they aren't going to want to play.  Just let people play what they want to play.  Use the carrot not the stick.

That is all.

[Brisket]

Valeria makes a lot of good points.  So did Riev with the idea of a spawning thing, and kankfly's smokeeasy is a brilliant idea too.  I'd love to have search be more utilized with some signs about it like a message about people moving in and out of a door quietly or something to mark the areas.

[Miradus]

I'm going to "me too" Valerie's great-wall-of-text for the most part.

There's way more to it that cuts into the heart of a game culture which, I feel, will stagnant if we let it. This is not a staff issue. It's a player issue.

Longevity leads to leadership and leaders seek, above all else, longevity. They (with few exceptions) don't take a lot of risks and don't want their unit/clan/house/cartel to take any risks either, and they clamp down hard on initiative.

This leads to leaders hovering in the compounds on the Way couch. Jabba the Hutt got out more than most of these people do. And because their houses look boring, they either don't attract minions or their minions join, see the Giant List of Rules their new boss demands they follow to promote longevity and they nope the fuck out of it.

This impacts crafters, merchants, people who sell to merchants, and even criminal pc's (with the exception of elves who are good at being independent scumbags and making their own fun.)

To be fair, I have not interacted much at all with any current leaders of these types of groups. I'm not blaming any particular person or group, but rather trying to point to a cultural issue I see.

Get out. Take risks. Build stories. Die. Rinse and repeat.

I sat on a rooftop above the Gaj for 3 RL hours last week and saw exactly ONE player. While there were over 40 people online. We probably won't agree on the cause of that, but I bet we could all agree that it's a bit of a problem.

[Krath]

City types are often crafty types.  I don't know how long I've rallied against the idea of only being able to sell a limited number of things to shops and instead having that work on a sliding scale, but it would probably result in more materials being available in cities and result in more hunters coming into the cities to sell their extra bones.  I can't tell you how many times I left a pile of bones just out in the wildnerness because the materials shop buys five bones.  That's really dumb ya'll.  That person in Elfville (I forget the name) who always takes extra things for a lower price, why is that guy not everywhere?  I used to drag stuff from Elf Camp to him all the time.  It was another thing to do and it didn't pay a lot but coins incentivize people.

Yes...This.

[FantasyWriter]

I sat on a rooftop above the Gaj for 3 RL hours last week and saw exactly ONE player. While there were over 40 people online. We probably won't agree on the cause of that, but I bet we could all agree that it's a bit of a problem.

Let me challenge this bolded statement for a second...
Are there things that could make the city better? Sure.
Would it be awesome if we had more players leading to more people in ALL the areas? Sure.

Is it a problem that people may -want- to play somewhere other than what has historically been the center of the Armageddon universe? Eh... I say no. Nakki players said the same when Tuluk was slow/closed.

Maybe the game needs to shift, adapt from time to time, like it did when Tuluk closed, or when most of the tribes were closed.
I don't want to see Allanak shut down or blocked off, but I also don't want it expected that Allanak must be fully active and filled with PCs for the game to continue to be enjoyable for players and staff to fool around in.

I am always leery of (my perception) conversations like this turning into the eventual "People aren't playing what/where I want them to, so how can I make all other options less attractive?"
Obviously, Halaster and the rest of staff are not intending to do this, but a lot of vocal players tend to feel that way, and often times, that ends up being the result.

There are times the Pah is empty, there are times Red Storm is empty, there are times when Luir's is empty, there are times when Tuluk is empty.  Sometimes there are going to be communities (tribes, PC created clans, plot devices) that draw players out of the cities for extended periods of time. I don't think this is necessarily a "problem" So much that it is simply a reality.

Getting the city folks closer together through city redesign in a way that doesn't eliminate options (like temples/apartment buildings/barracks) would be a good thing.
Incentivizing desert PCs (that can legally do so) to come into the cities from time to time would be a good thing.
Creating "Cracks in the system" that allow PCs who aren't legally allowed in from time to time would be a good thing.

Making Sponsored leaders work together OOCly to make sure there is something going on every weekend would also be a good thing, make that part of being a leader role.  Set up a GDB clan for leader roles with a calender and ask them to try to fill at least one weekend every other month with something that features their clan.

[Master Color]

Maybe templars need to put in a TPS report before they're allowed to kill players instead of after.

The game has needed this level of moderation since basically forever. It's needed because players generally can't be trusted to play the game in a considerate manner and staff can't be trusted not to just give them a pass for it.

Edit: To phrase it a different way. Players don't play in cities because players don't trust each other. If you want people to be willing to take risks and tell cool stories? I honestly don't think the player environment allows that to happen. Loss aversion is real, losing a character is painful and I have NO trust that other players will give a shit about it. I've taken risks to try to tell cool stories and I got smashed into the dirt the first opportunity. I tried again and it happened again. How many times does that have to happen before people learn not to bother? I have learned not to. Players have learned not to trust each other so acutely that they feel less vulnerable in the supposedly hostile wasteland.

I've tried out some of the other games out there. Even other games with PK permadeath. They had much healthier player environments and much more interesting player interactions because they simply insisted that there was a proper procedure to player killing. It was refreshing and eye opening to just bounce characters off one another without having to worry about them saltily arrowing me to death the next day.

I think the real answer to Halaster's question is to find a way to foster trust between players so that they're willing to take risks on each other.

[LindseyBalboa]

A few people have hit on these ideas already.  To me, one of the things that makes wilderness life more desirable than city life is the ability to go out and do something productive even when no other PCs are around.  A city PC is kind of stuck waiting on other PCs to make things happen.  Some in the thread have commented that there should be more PvE in the city and/or new things to do.

Some ideas:
-Add some NPC thugs to the city.  Think rinthi-style muggers in the alleys between the main streets.  This would give soldiers something to go do.
-Add some nobles or merchant npcs that walk around and can be mugged by PCs
-Add a NPC that is a rogue magicker in some hard-to-find room
-Add a merchant that sells pinches of spice in some alleyway.  Give him his own guard in case the soldier type wants to arrest him.

Would these create immersive plots that make the game for someone?  Probably not.  But if you give PCs things to do when there are no other PCs around, eventually there are enough PCs in an area that plots will start happening.

Something equivalent to the jakhal dens but are actually illegal speakeasies (with two or three pinches of spice offered for sale) in Allanak seems like a really awesome idea. The 'search' skill can be utilized more.

There are areas in Allanak you can go to find spice. And shady things. And lots of stuff to search.

But I've seen a ton of people point out it's not worth maybe dying over, and they're right. And it's a HUGE hassle to change outfits if you even have another, so the known way around being jumped by NPCs (only part of the danger in my beloved rinth) is basically unusable. Not worth the effort.

I think it would be beneficial for a clear path to the central bar in the rinth - not a confusing passage, not a bunch of rooms, but a quick and easy way to get from Hathor's to the Mantis without being attacked by NPCs. Post a dozen thugs outside and people have to sneak out the same way they would've if they were heading into the rinth, unless they leave the way they came and head back to Hathor's.

This would also have a huge benefit in that rinth PCs and southern PCs would have a relatively safe spot to interact. The Mantis is safer for your belongings than the Gaj by far, by in game and thematic enforcement, and I'd say safer than any bar in the south for your life because of the same reasons. Having the central place they can interact be one criminals do not ply their trade in for understandable reasons is key.

[lostinspace]

Edit to add: Oh, and you can't send a way without breaking concentration.  That's really dumb and, again, cuts down on interaction.

Would be cool if mercantile classes had access to a perk that allowed them to Way while crafting. edit: Or even a perk that reduces strain of using the Way to communicate.

Sort of like how wilderness classes have a perk that lets them forage for food or tame a mount.

[racurtne]

Edit to add: Oh, and you can't send a way without breaking concentration.  That's really dumb and, again, cuts down on interaction.

Would be cool if mercantile classes had access to a perk that allowed them to Way while crafting. edit: Or even a perk that reduces strain of using the Way to communicate.

Sort of like how wilderness classes have a perk that lets them forage for food or tame a mount.

And wilderness quit. I like wilderness classes, but by golly they get a lot of perks. Makes me want to only play them sometimes.

Edited to clarify: I want other classes to be as attractive for different reasons, not to take this away.

[FantasyWriter]

Like being able to print money?

[Gunnerblaster]

With 3 pages worth of responses, I'd love to know which of these many ideas the Staff feel lean in a direction they could feasibly go.

[FantasyWriter]

With 3 pages worth of responses, I'd love to know which of these many ideas the Staff feel lean in a direction they could feasibly go.

:like:

[Halaster]

With 3 pages worth of responses, I'd love to know which of these many ideas the Staff feel lean in a direction they could feasibly go.

"Other players are the problem"

Because it lets us off the hook and we don't have to do anything!






Heh, I'm kidding.  I'm waiting to let this percolate a bit more, but there's definitely ideas we like in here.  By no means is this the only one, but I really just dig the idea of taverns requiring considerably less Focus to use "psi".

[Mellifera]

Maybe templars need to put in a TPS report before they're allowed to kill players instead of after.  Maybe require them to wish up and get approval if not put in a request. 

Templars ARE supposed to wish up before they kill someone already, at least in circumstances that aren't someone engaging them in combat or committing high treason in front of them, and in my experience, they do.

But, otherwise I don't think requiring them to put in requests and wait days before they take action is a realistic expectation, and I don't think it's fair to levy that on templars but not the rest of the playerbase when templars are already given the most staff oversight and scrutiny of any role that exists, especially when it comes to uses of force and killing.

Honestly I feel like people blow the amount of PKing templars actually end up doing way of proportion regardless, especially when compared to other character types that engage in PVP. I understand that templars have the power to wield crimcode, but abuse of this is already punished. Having played a couple templars in the past, most of the time it would be impossible to submit a report and wait a few days every time you might be expected to kill someone. You see a nilazi raising a corpse in front of you. What do you do? Capture him, greatly risking yourself, and leave him in a cell for the days it takes to get a response? (I did this in a similar situation myself, it was miserable for all of us and staff just eventually said 'yes you can kill them'). People find your mind telling you that there's a sorcerer just outside the city attacking a group of soldiers right now and they need help. Do you just ignore it? Do you go there and try to arrest the defiler and drag him back INTO your city to a cell? You stumble upon an elf that's been wanted for months for killing a noble and who the city has been searching for. Do you just pretend you didn't see him?

On that topic, you might actually be only talking about manhunts for wanted people. If you're wanted by the templarate (or have been doing things that might make you wanted by a particularly observant populace, like sorcery) and you still choose to hang around in the alleys or taverns, some templar finding you and trying to kill you is something that you have to expect and that you already signed up for.

Maybe you're only talking about when a templar is killing someone who hasn't committed a crime in front of them and isn't an active threat to them or the city, like someone who's been bad mouthing nobles or not bribing them enough. When it comes to those things, templars are already not meant to, and generally don't, PK, at least in Arm today.

Then there's the occasions where a templar kills someone due to falsified evidence, a framing attempt. If someone is framing you and trying to utilise the templarate to get you killed, that's sort of just a part of this political game full of murder, corruption, and betrayal, where the story isn't always fair, and where a Templar asking staff first would only result in permission to do so, or the passing on of meta knowledge or direction influenced by meta knowledge, and I highly doubt any staffer would opt for the latter.

I honestly believe that people pin a lot more on templars than they deserve. There are other kinds of characters who kill far, far more, with similar or greater levels of power, and do it indiscriminately, but no one is arguing that we should moderate Amos the raider with his band of six master bludgeoners more, or the elf mafia leader and his swarm of sneaky poison stabbers who kill anyone who so much as blinks at them funny. Templars already have the highest level of direct moderation than any other character type, and they are given the least leeway when it comes to PKing. This is not a problem that can be solved with 'moderate the templars even more'.  They can't be blamed for literally every issue guys.

(Added a lot more via an edit, because for some reason part of the post was submitted before I had finished it)

[BadSkeelz]

And yet other games manage it. Shit, just leave the elf in the jail cells or find a less permanent punishment for them.

[Bebop]

Good templars are already reporting up to the moment of PK, wishing up prior to PK and reporting after PK.