Player/Staff Meeting Feb 4, 2023 - Questions

[mansa]

https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,58874.0.html

If you can't make it to the Player/Staff meeting, you can still have your questions asked.  Just put them into this thread here, and the staff will try and answer them during the meeting (or perhaps before the meeting)

[Delusion]

Here's one:

Armageddon demands substantial time investment to advance a character's position in the world or to increase skills past a basic level, although the skill issue was ameliorated to some extent by the new classes. Would staff consider allowing the use of karma points to place characters in clans from the moment they start, to have increased starting wealth, or to have higher starting skills?

[WarriorPoet]

Whats up on a new era of Tor Scorpions?

[Iiyola]

Thank you   I really appreciate the timing too.

[adri]

I guess this sort of piggybacks off of Delusion's question, so feel free to do with it what you will, but:

Many of us have played certain combat clans ad nauseum and the runner/recruit phase isn't always the most engaging experience. What are the chances of being able to apply for say, a T'zai Byn Trooper (small skill bumps included or not, really.. we've all met those lazy/terrible Troopers) or a Private of His Arm? Maybe it's already allowed and I'm unaware but if not I'd be ecstatic to see it.

[Krath]

I guess this sort of piggybacks off of Delusion's question, so feel free to do with it what you will, but:

Many of us have played certain combat clans ad nauseum and the runner/recruit phase isn't always the most engaging experience. What are the chances of being able to apply for say, a T'zai Byn Trooper (small skill bumps included or not, really.. we've all met those lazy/terrible Troopers) or a Private of His Arm? Maybe it's already allowed and I'm unaware but if not I'd be ecstatic to see it.

You can use a special app for starting a PC out skilled bumped to a trooper level I believe.

[Veselka]

I guess this sort of piggybacks off of Delusion's question, so feel free to do with it what you will, but:

Many of us have played certain combat clans ad nauseum and the runner/recruit phase isn't always the most engaging experience. What are the chances of being able to apply for say, a T'zai Byn Trooper (small skill bumps included or not, really.. we've all met those lazy/terrible Troopers) or a Private of His Arm? Maybe it's already allowed and I'm unaware but if not I'd be ecstatic to see it.

You can use a special app for starting a PC out skilled bumped to a trooper level I believe.

If that's the case, it would be great if it was codified in documentation for Karma, and how it can be spent. I would absolutely do this all the time.

[FantasyWriter]

I guess this sort of piggybacks off of Delusion's question, so feel free to do with it what you will, but:

Many of us have played certain combat clans ad nauseum and the runner/recruit phase isn't always the most engaging experience. What are the chances of being able to apply for say, a T'zai Byn Trooper (small skill bumps included or not, really.. we've all met those lazy/terrible Troopers) or a Private of His Arm? Maybe it's already allowed and I'm unaware but if not I'd be ecstatic to see it.

You can use a special app for starting a PC out skilled bumped to a trooper level I believe.

If that's the case, it would be great if it was codified in documentation for Karma, and how it can be spent. I would absolutely do this all the time.

Kinda the point of "special apps" is that they are things that don't fit into the available documentation but are reasonably considerable by staff. I wish that REJECTED special apps didn't count against you.

On the other hand if you ask for something in a special app that is "beyond reason" staff will more than likely be willing to work with you on adjusting things to fit within the realm of 'reasonable'.

Don't think of special apps a only +karma apps. Think of them as ways to get around what you are able to do though normal character generation that fits within the existing World documentation. 

For example, I once apped and played a mutant dwarf with a big defense bonus for scaly/chitinous skin in exchange for agreeing not to wear armor because normal armor wouldn't fit and so on.
It doesn't hurt to ask. That is what spec apps are for.

[adri]

I guess this sort of piggybacks off of Delusion's question, so feel free to do with it what you will, but:

Many of us have played certain combat clans ad nauseum and the runner/recruit phase isn't always the most engaging experience. What are the chances of being able to apply for say, a T'zai Byn Trooper (small skill bumps included or not, really.. we've all met those lazy/terrible Troopers) or a Private of His Arm? Maybe it's already allowed and I'm unaware but if not I'd be ecstatic to see it.

You can use a special app for starting a PC out skilled bumped to a trooper level I believe.

If that's the case, it would be great if it was codified in documentation for Karma, and how it can be spent. I would absolutely do this all the time.

Agreed. I'd love to see it in the docs or have some official confirmation, either way. Certainly wouldn't hurt to list it as an option somewhere - especially if I'm not the only one who didn't realize it was a thing.

[creeper386]

I'd love to see some numbers regarding a few things.

Player classes and races. Preferably comparisons pre and post karma change.


Some base look at how combat can play out. There's a viewpoint that strength is the end all be all and it's broken in combat. Players don't really have the great ability to either view this information or even play out different scenarios to see how these things actually play out statistically.

This is always been an ongoing to be a discussion, unfortunately through a player lens, it's all speculation. Without any look at statistics and actually mechanics non of it really matters and it's just going to be this griping point. It'd be nice to actually have it settled. And then if need be plan balances around it.

[mansa]

I know there's an unfortunate battle between giving players the ability to play what they want, and creating a consistent world for which characters can interact in, and two decisions conflict with each other often.  Currently, there is a limitation on select character types that are maintained by the staff, (eg # of Merchant House characters, # of Nobles, # of Templars, # of Sorcerers, # of Mindbenders, # of Thryzn)  and if there is a lack of representation of one type, there will be a rolecall post on the GDB about filling the slot.

Is there an ideal state of the gameworld for the proportional representation of the character types transposed onto the player character population, and what would that be?
What steps can you take to make the consistent gameworld story a representation of the player's characters in the game?

[zealus]

Given the number of off-peak players, are there any plans to support that timezone as well, in terms of sponsored roles, ect (Staff time allowing naturally). Or will sponsored roles be expected to be on peak?

[Mellifera]

(Edited this out, I ended up making it to the meeting)

[FantasyWriter]

What suggestions from the "how to make the cities more attractive" thread are staff leaning toward or looking into implementing?

[Krath]

What suggestions from the "how to make the cities more attractive" thread are staff leaning toward or looking into implementing?

[Halcyon]

Whats up on a new era of Tor Scorpions?

+1!

[Pariah]

Would it be possible to have jobs with actual production results expected?

IE a job as a certain type of crafter who you trade say jewelry with an npc who then trades it and pays you per your production?  Right now I can just get a job and do hardly anything and get paid weekly.  It would be nice to have jobs that drove you to produce tangible items or labor (similar to the rock buy, poop buyers)

So two players that are crafters would not be equal depending on their drive for productivity.  I feel like that would be a good thing to add that a boss type character could see and reward as well.

"Amos. You did well, you created fifty items this week, your nearest competitor did a shitty ten, keep up the good work!"

[Nao]

The default 'monthly reports' really don't seem to work for me. After four weeks, at the current rate of events, there's a lot of stuff piled up, to the point where I don't want to type it all out and end up sending nothing. I can't imagine that anyone wants to deal with several pages worth of reports (some of it outdated after several weeks), either.

Have you considered switching to more of an 'report as things come up' model, with shorter reports? I remember there were some changes announced to the template for character reports that never made it to the request tool.

[Malken]

Is there an invite for the Discord channel?

[Patuk]

I dunno where the permanent one is, but:

https://discord.gg/R2ssbmuA

[Malken]

I dunno where the permanent one is, but:

https://discord.gg/R2ssbmuA

Thank you.

[LindseyBalboa]

A while back there was a staff poll (Shabs?) on Discord or somewhere asking people where staff should improve. The rinth was one of those choices. What plans are in the near-future for the rinth (sans spoilers)?

[Brokkr]

I wasn't able to make the Meeting, due to real life commitments, but I thought I would offer my answers on a few of the questions there were asked there, if I have something to offer beyond what other Staff have already stated:

najdorf:
Hey. What do you see in the future of the game, in 5, 10 years? What are your ambitions accordingly? Maintain as is, grow, shrink? Is there a consensus among you, and a shared ambition that still excite you, or a loss of motivation? It is natural as we all age. I appreciate your sincere thoughts

I feel like I dashed Halaster's hopes and dreams by not being there to answer, so here we go.  I am not particularly focused on numbers.  They are nice to have, obviously.  I have played the game in time periods where lots of time it was sub-10 players and we would be lucky to see 20 on.  And loved it.  Because there was a lot out there I hadn't seen, creating uncertainty and excitement in my play. A lot of us have been in a lot of clans, seen their documentation, explored the world and know what is where.  And that decreases the uncertainty and frankly the excitement.  We have had long period where content creation was not a priority.

So what would I like for the next 5 or 10 years?  I'd like people to look back and reflect they had a good time playing the game, when they were playing it.  I think a key to achieving that for Staff will be not presenting players with the same static experiences they have been used to for awhile. In part, this is why so many desert elf options are open.  It is certainly why Thryzn were made a playable option. This may mean that some stuff goes away, or gets changed.  That has always been the case, but I think we have an awareness that being able to recycle is not necessarily a bad thing (meaning having it go away for awhile, then come back).

DesertT:
Hi Staff,

Long time listener; first time caller:

I can point out an attendance roster that was robust with new joins one month, then the leadership "went away" for whatever reason/s and the following month's attendance roster dropped by 2/3.

This kills clans that are restrictive and require active leadership to help keep players engaged, thus why the departure to less strict clans.

My request:  Can we have leadership role calls give TWO players leadership positions?  Like a Sergeant and a Senior Mercenary, or a Noble and a trusted bastard (for larger noble clans)?

Ok, one ingredient to the secret sauce I often use during Secret Role Calls...is I make it seem like there is one spot.  But there isn't.  Either I have two or I am flexible in the number.  Because people die.  Often.  And violently.  We have done this sort of thing in the past for normal role calls as well, but not typically when it takes, for instance, Templars from 1 to 3 (although we did that once too).  I think the idea around one person for that role and one person for the position just below it is interesting.  Although there are some roles we can't really do it that way for, notably Templars and Nobles.

Betweenford:
It is a very particular pattern I have noticed where Dune Traders in Tribal Clans have an incredible difficulty to actually raise their skills in the wilderness. As the wilderness heavy crafter.

And here I thought you were going to say armor crafting *whew*.  I think lumberjacking is much more reasonable now, with certain recipes that were put in that alleviate the pain at mid levels of the skill, especially with not absolutely needing logs, like you used to.  I could see a similar recipe, but for the lower skill levels perhaps.  That might alleviate some of the pain here?

Tentmaking, I guess when I put together the skill lists, I had assumed tribals would still be shopping in the major centers of civilization. If you don't, obviously this skill is an issue. A few tents made solely out of materials found in the wilderness solve your issues, or am I headed in the wrong direction?

Old Mother Serpent:
Thanks. So, this was something brought up on the GDB and I'm unsure if there was any serious staff discussion of it. Mansa proposed the idea of a hard cap on x amount of different sorts of races/guilds/subguilds combinations to encourage more variety in the gameworld as opposed to large groups of one sort or another. Has this been considered?

This question seemed to go in the direction of talking more about half-giants and muls.  I would say it is too early to address this with character caps.

We know why folks are playing half-giants and muls.  Partly the karma change.  But also because of one specific thing that is boosting their combat efficiency to unforeseen levels.

That is getting taken into account in "- Staff are in the idea/discussion phase of combat system overhaul, details to come later as we solidify them.", which is a discussion that was kicked off specifically by the one thing that is causing this.

Halaster:
From Pariah on the GDB, "Would it be possible to have jobs with actual production results expected?  IE a job as a certain type of crafter who you trade say jewelry with an npc who then trades it and pays you per your production?  Right now I can just get a job and do hardly anything and get paid weekly.  It would be nice to have jobs that drove you to produce tangible items or labor (similar to the rock buy, poop buyers)"
That question started a discussion thread on the staff IDB.
Hestia thought it was a good idea, and staff are now talking about it.  That's really about it so far

One thing that is in place, and effectively will work similarly is the player businesses in Tuluk.  We've talked about having those in the south as well, but haven't taken steps yet towards that. The ones in the north are behind being in the Player clan, which is perhaps why they are not popular in effecting something like this.  Would be interested to know if folks do not think these fill this need, and why.

Halaster:
ok, this was asked a couple of times..
"What from the 'what would make cities more enticing thread' do staff like so far"

If I am interpreting the thread correctly on a macro level, there seems to be a shift in what is desired from city play from a desire for pure RP venue (for example, tavern sitting of yore where code use was minimal) to more code supported RP, where the code in question isn't simply ratcheting up the danger level of the outside world, but give activities that one can do in the city that are supported by skill use (and I think the part not said out loud, support skill increase). While we have ratcheted down the risk/reward for skill increase (remember when mercy wasn't a thing and disengage did not ignore wait state?), the dynamic is supportive of a harsh world, even when the risk is just the coins you spent on your crafting materials. The city environment isn't always supportive of inducing risk.

But I do not think we need to think necessarily of pure city.  My perspective, at least, is the problem is more broad than that.  We haven't just lost city players, we have lost the blended city/wilderness players and it is purely wilderness players that have made up the balance (meaning, they rarely go into a city).  Stuff like the businesses I mention above were meant to support both pure city players, but also those blended players that might go out during the day and get stuff, bring it back, maybe craft a bit and put it on their shopkeeper, then socialize at night (typically at a tavern).  That used to be a fairly common routine, it seems broken right now, and it may be an easier first fix than purely city characters.