New Weapon System Discussion

[LindseyBalboa]

The only thing about the Salarri thing I don't like is the clanning piece.

Though I guess you could always make someone, join Salarr and leave, but the way codedly it probably works is that if you don't have clan salarr, you don't get the bonus.

I've had characters that worked in three different clans of their lives and if say I make a Salarri, get myself up to master in everything, then leave to go do my own shit, codedly I lose all my knowledge and ability.

I wish it was more of a character thing and less of a clanning thing.

I feel that way about all crafts, unless there is some specific tool that only Salarr has, it doesn't make sense that a crafter one day can make a diamond encrusted warsword +12, and then quit and lose all their knowledge and crafts.

There should be a way to steal knowledge and techniques from places to utilize as your own.

I think you can, you just also need to steal the top tier Salarr tools, the high quality unblemished goods they secure for use, the clean workshops protected from the elements, the gaggle of trained assistant v npcs around to help with every part of every step, etc, along with some of the know-how

Came back to add that the proper workshop alone would be so hugely beneficial. I never really thought about it that hard. My buddy does wood installations and metalwork and has a vacuum sealed room for high quality stuff to dry in or whatever for a perfect finish. That perfect lacquered silt horror breastplate isn't getting that in a tent.

[Pariah]

I would 💯% agree with what you said Lindsay, but the crafts don't require you to be in a certain room or have a certain master tool.

Maybe that would make it make more sense if it did.

But if I'm a master level sword maker with Salarr clanning I can make that awesome sword in the middle of the salt flats or my workshop.

[creeper386]

I would certainly love for crafting to be tool/room bound as opposed to just a binary in clan or not, but perhaps that's getting into a different discussion then the weapon quality system.

[Pariah]

I would certainly love for crafting to be tool/room bound as opposed to just a binary in clan or not, but perhaps that's getting into a different discussion then the weapon quality system.

Yeah, you're right, I'll post a new topic when I get some time at work tomorrow, right now it's night night time.

[Krath]

Deleted..found answer

[Halcyon]

Could it possible to add an argument to the list command in shops, to only show items of quality above or below a certain level?

[Pariah]

Could it possible to add an argument to the list command in shops, to only show items of quality above or below a certain level?

YES!  Nothing is worse than say buying a tool, to find out that it's such shit quality you can't use it to craft anything.

[LindseyBalboa]

I would 💯% agree with what you said Lindsay, but the crafts don't require you to be in a certain room or have a certain master tool.

Maybe that would make it make more sense if it did.

But if I'm a master level sword maker with Salarr clanning I can make that awesome sword in the middle of the salt flats or my workshop.

Yo that's a sweet idea.

[Nao]

I've noticed some pretty massive reduction in damage. Elves are going to have trouble without a great strength roll. Either something is not working, or the damage rolls for some of these weapon types may need to be looked at.

[Pariah]

I've noticed some pretty massive reduction in damage. Elves are going to have trouble without a great strength roll. Either something is not working, or the damage rolls for some of these weapon types may need to be looked at.

In unrelated news, they nerfed elves.

[Nao]

I've noticed some pretty massive reduction in damage. Elves are going to have trouble without a great strength roll. Either something is not working, or the damage rolls for some of these weapon types may need to be looked at.

In unrelated news, they nerfed elves.

Everyone with low-ish strength.

[Armaddict]

No one ever thinks of the elves.

[Brokkr]

I've noticed some pretty massive reduction in damage. Elves are going to have trouble without a great strength roll. Either something is not working, or the damage rolls for some of these weapon types may need to be looked at.

Well, if they are the weapons you have equipped...

One has the exact same average.  It has a higher max and a lower min, but the same average as it used to.

The other was one of the very best weapons you could get the in game, previously.  It was no where near where it should have been.

[tiny rainbow]

It sorta was like a running joke for a while but I think we do need coders to play elves more often because there comes a point where things are just stacking up ridiculously now lol - I don't only either, myself, but I think it's important to experience this since it's like two separate games when so many things are changing so fast

- Elves solely had health reductions/endurance reductions

- Mount feeding made the desert being a dangerous place a thing of the past, no one stops in the desert anymore which is probably a wider issue that has made random people riding around solo a normalised thing now - this was probably one of the worst mistakes in the game and as human saw lot of people using it in blatantly unrealistic ways - aren't the stables meant to have been feeding the animals already?

- Elves were more affected by making poison made less useful, as well as needing lots of RL hours to maintain - while strength characters are just able to just randomly 1 hit kill people with less options for RP too

- Elves will obviously be more affected by making weapons designed around strength too, since weapons used to not be balanced around having max strength

[Pariah]

I once upon a time had an absolutely incredible strength dude and he could kill with a 20 Sid crude club like nothing because of how hard he hit.

Strength is always going to be the primary damage dealer until they change the combat code.  From my understanding the weapons just provided a small boost to the damage you could give.

So elves are always gonna suck in that regard.

Though agility is how many swings you take, I've had elves in the byn slap me ten times to my one swing as a human, it all balances out in the end.

[Tranquil]

Staff should consider implementing agility weapons. This is yet another nerf in a long line of elf nerfs.

[dunecrawler]

I've noticed some pretty massive reduction in damage. Elves are going to have trouble without a great strength roll. Either something is not working, or the damage rolls for some of these weapon types may need to be looked at.

Well, if they are the weapons you have equipped...

One has the exact same average.  It has a higher max and a lower min, but the same average as it used to.

The other was one of the very best weapons you could get the in game, previously.  It was no where near where it should have been.

One is fine. I was expecting a nerf for the other one, but I was not expecting 6-minute fights with a scrab while etwoing that.

[Yelinak]

Strength matters way too much for damage. Or, if I had to specify the issue, I think I'd say that damage without high strength is not good enough. Combat with high strength actually feels pretty realistic and representative of how it would be in the real world, but if you don't have high strength, damage is so pathetically low that it's kind of ridiculous. I don't mean with poor strength, either. Even if you have, say, above average strength on a human, it's miserable. Elves struggle the most because they can't really get high strength, but any race besides muls and half-giants has the same issue if you don't prioritize that stat.

Skill doesn't seem to affect damage very much, either. You'll just land your hits more often, but if most of them are nicks and grazes and lightly, the time it takes to kill anything is just silly whenever you don't happen to land blows to the head/neck repeatedly. The only thing that makes it playable at all is the fact that most NPCs just stand there until dead even if you have to hit them eighteen times to get there. In PvP, the disadvantage of not-high strength is so severe that you're practically forced to utilize poisons and/or ranged weapons. The latter is highly unreliable because people can just peace out after the first shot, and poisons are also noticeably nerfed now.

Playing a combat character without high strength feels so futile. Everything's way harder. Animals take so long to kill that they become much more dangerous, and your melee hits aren't a real threat to PCs because you usually deal single-digit damage. A character with high strength hits much harder with a crappy dagger than a character with middling strength using a greatsword or something similar. It's totally unbalanced. That was also the case before the weapon overhaul, so it's not about that.

[mansa]

https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,49825.msg1085920.html#msg1085920

January 11, 2023 (Wednesday)

Halaster
- Fixed issue where people with very low strength were getting triple penalized when using 2-handed weapons.  This was an existing bug for years apparently.

It appears that some of the prayers were answered!

[Pariah]

I've noticed some pretty massive reduction in damage. Elves are going to have trouble without a great strength roll. Either something is not working, or the damage rolls for some of these weapon types may need to be looked at.

Well, if they are the weapons you have equipped...

One has the exact same average.  It has a higher max and a lower min, but the same average as it used to.

The other was one of the very best weapons you could get the in game, previously.  It was no where near where it should have been.

One is fine. I was expecting a nerf for the other one, but I was not expecting 6-minute fights with a scrab while etwoing that.

There was just a release notes, was showing a bug when etwoing, that's probably your culprit.

[Tranquil]

The bug-fix doesn't change anything except for the poor-below avg strength elves. Your strength score has to be so small there would've been negatives in the damage roll. Which is a very small minority.

The problem still applies, and what Yelinak said is still 100% true.

[Armaddict]

It WOULD be cool if there was an equivalent of weapon finesse that made agility more important to certain weapon types, to varying degrees, as opposed to strength everywhere.

If that's already how things are and we just don't know it, then I'm just going to, hey look a squirrel, let's go over there now.

[Veselka]

It WOULD be cool if there was an equivalent of weapon finesse that made agility more important to certain weapon types, to varying degrees, as opposed to strength everywhere.

If that's already how things are and we just don't know it, then I'm just going to, hey look a squirrel, let's go over there now.

I agree 100% with this. It has always been 'Bludgeoning + Strength' = Best, and I almost out of spite choose swords most of the time.  liked the addition of riposte because agility does seem to assist with its success. It would be very cool to expand on that -- have certain weapons excel against certain armor types, agility vs strength, maybe agility weapons bypass a certain amount of armor.

[Tranquil]

If daggers were so terrible in every situation, no one would make daggers in this world.

If we had agility weapons, these lesser-used weapons would find a use amongst the races that can't one shot things with mega mauls.

Giving elves or low-strength humans the ability to do more then 1-5 damage a hit would not be game breaking.

[Pariah]

If daggers were so terrible in every situation, no one would make daggers in this world.

If we had agility weapons, these lesser-used weapons would find a use amongst the races that can't one shot things with mega mauls.

Giving elves or low-strength humans the ability to do more then 1-5 damage a hit would not be game breaking.

I agree completely, but don't think the combat system can be easily tweaked in that regard.

I put in a request because stalker needs to get parry to branch three skills and my homeboy was a shield user.  I asked if there was a way to make it check Parry before it checks shield to allow parry to advance quicker.  Was basically told that the combat system is so wonky it couldn't be fixed without major effort put in.

Took my dude like 11 days played, fighting every day to get parry to branched status because of it while everything else was branched and on its way to master save the combat skills.

The combat system has pretty much worked the same way for all of the game, so my guess is there is some stuff they can tweak easier like damage bonus on a particular weapon, armor bonus on spells and physical armor.

But to make combat understand agility in terms of damage and not just swings per tick?  I highly doubt it.