New Weapon System Discussion

[najdorf]

I thought that some people might want to talk about recent changes. What do you think of them so far?

My initial question: If the recent change was only supposed to affect damage (as mentioned by staff earlier), or if there were also updates made to the combat system as a whole. Also, is this change related to the complaints about -combat grind- that some people have mentioned? It would be helpful to have more information about how this change affects the overall combat system, since we have more transparency now.

[Kaathe]

the goal of this change was to make weapon damage more fair and consistent. Previously whichever staff made the weapon could pick the damage and usually did so based on a similar weapon. So it was easy for good and bad choices to propagate.

You might get more details from halaster, but I don't think this change was intended to affect the overall combat system at all except to reduce inconsistency and the value of meta-knowledge.

[Halaster]

It was not intended to change anything except damage.

However, there've been a couple of bugs that did actually affect combat which I believe I have worked out now.

[Riev]

It is a good change in conjunction with the analyze changes. More weapon recipes will be found and people will begin to gravitate towards weapons of "higher quality" which is what we want.

If you're using a "terrible" knife, there's probably a reason.
If we can add in a honing/weapon repair system that'd be dope

But I'm now waiting to see "this cuirass is of poor quality against bludgeoning"

[dunecrawler]

Hit/miss chance still seems to be affected.

[racurtne]

Seemed to be weapon-specific when I observed it last night (before the recent changes this morning).

Might want to file a request on that particular weapon to get it looked at so they have an example to work off of.

[BadSkeelz]

It is a good change in conjunction with the analyze changes. More weapon recipes will be found and people will begin to gravitate towards weapons of "higher quality" which is what we want.

If you're using a "terrible" knife, there's probably a reason.
If we can add in a honing/weapon repair system that'd be dope

But I'm now waiting to see "this cuirass is of poor quality against bludgeoning"

I'm hoping that we see the reverse - that we find out there's a larger variety of weapons that work just as well, so now people can more comfortably pick weapons based on style rather than pure coded benefits.

[Pariah]

It is a good change in conjunction with the analyze changes. More weapon recipes will be found and people will begin to gravitate towards weapons of "higher quality" which is what we want.

If you're using a "terrible" knife, there's probably a reason.
If we can add in a honing/weapon repair system that'd be dope

But I'm now waiting to see "this cuirass is of poor quality against bludgeoning"

I'm hoping that we see the reverse - that we find out there's a larger variety of weapons that work just as well, so now people can more comfortably pick weapons based on style rather than pure coded benefits.

What do you mean?  Like just picking wicked scimitars cause they say wicked?

[najdorf]

A sweet concern, yet how does staff plan to respond to master craft requests, as almost every crafter will now ask for legendary weapons? Frankly, no crafter would ever go for a terrible knife. Previously the lottery effect was kind of mysterious and holding crafters from inquiring too much.

[Riev]

Its all in the clan, the material, and type of weapon.

Non-Salarri? Probably not making more than a Good sword.
Salarri? Probably making some Very Good swords for those that can afford it.
salarr-made equipment for nobility? Better be damned amazing.

[BadSkeelz]

I'm gonna miss the ability to sell the nobility just dogshit-tier equipment that looks flashy.

[Pariah]

Its all in the clan, the material, and type of weapon.

Non-Salarri? Probably not making more than a Good sword.
Salarri? Probably making some Very Good swords for those that can afford it.
salarr-made equipment for nobility? Better be damned amazing.

Unless I read it wrong, sounds like clan's don't mean shit for damage.

I don't think Salarr has a bonus.

[najdorf]

I'm gonna miss the ability to sell the nobility just dogshit-tier equipment that looks flashy.

the emerald-crusted, parmesan-sprinkled dagger gently bounces off your soft skin

[Riev]

Its all in the clan, the material, and type of weapon.

Non-Salarri? Probably not making more than a Good sword.
Salarri? Probably making some Very Good swords for those that can afford it.
salarr-made equipment for nobility? Better be damned amazing.

Unless I read it wrong, sounds like clan's don't mean shit for damage.

I don't think Salarr has a bonus.

Salarr-made weapons absolutely will have a quality bonus. A wooden sword at average, and a Salarri wooden sword at average, will do the same damage.
But Salarr weapons are unlikely to be 'just average', is my point.

[Halaster]

A sweet concern, yet how does staff plan to respond to master craft requests, as almost every crafter will now ask for legendary weapons? Frankly, no crafter would ever go for a terrible knife. Previously the lottery effect was kind of mysterious and holding crafters from inquiring too much.

Excellent question.

Quality will be determined by the materials used to some degree, the skill of the person requesting the CC, and the skill required to craft it.  If you tick all the boxes, you can request a 'best' quality weapon, but the difficulty required to make it each and every time is going to be very high, and require some good ingredients.  You'll fail a lot in crafting the recipe.

[Brokkr]

A sweet concern, yet how does staff plan to respond to master craft requests, as almost every crafter will now ask for legendary weapons? Frankly, no crafter would ever go for a terrible knife. Previously the lottery effect was kind of mysterious and holding crafters from inquiring too much.

Excellent question.

Quality will be determined by the materials used to some degree, the skill of the person requesting the CC, and the skill required to craft it.  If you tick all the boxes, you can request a 'best' quality weapon, but the difficulty required to make it each and every time is going to be very high, and require some good ingredients.  You'll fail a lot in crafting the recipe.

We'll probably decide when it comes up.

My preference is that you need to "work up" over the course of a couple of custom craft recipes to get a great weapon, along with what Halaster stated.

[Pariah]

The problem with master crafts from what I've seen as a master skill level of various types is that you have high master skill, maxed to the top, but the recipe still is difficult or manageable and you waste all the diamond encrusted halfling legs it takes to make it.

[Brokkr]

Its all in the clan, the material, and type of weapon.

Non-Salarri? Probably not making more than a Good sword.
Salarri? Probably making some Very Good swords for those that can afford it.
salarr-made equipment for nobility? Better be damned amazing.

Unless I read it wrong, sounds like clan's don't mean shit for damage.

I don't think Salarr has a bonus.

You can actually figure this out IC now!

And you obviously are not paying attention:

https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,58815.0.html

Q: Can I custom craft an 'amazing' quality weapon?
A: For now, only Salarr has the technology and history to make the best quality weapons.   There may be tribes that can make the best quality weapons of a single type, like a spear.   Independent, self-taught crafters will not have the ability to make amazing weapons.

[Brokkr]

The problem with master crafts from what I've seen as a master skill level of various types is that you have high master skill, maxed to the top, but the recipe still is difficult or manageable and you waste all the diamond encrusted halfling legs it takes to make it.

Good?  Errrrr, I mean, that probably means really good stuff is going to be really expensive!

[Veselka]

From what I've seen aspects of a mastercraft where gemstones are aesthetic additions are sometimes salvagable, sometimes not.

Otherwise yeah -- It's a difficult craft. It should mean sacrificing some of the materials to make it. That's true in most MMORPGs and MUDs.

[Veselka]

I'm curious how the damage change will affect (inadvertently) survivability in PvE and PvP scenarios. Looking forward to trying it out and seeing the difference (if any).

More than anything, I like that things will be consistent and not discretionary. Some Staff would overpower a master craft, others would over 'realism' it, so YMMV when you would submit a Mastercraft, no matter how laconic or well-written etc. I like that it's just based on quality vs materials.

In a MC request you might make a pitch for X quality -- And then like Brokkr said, depending on how many MC's you've made, how long you've been doing it, you might score Y quality.

And I like that Salarr (for now) is the only one capable of making 'best' quality. Definitely puts the desirability for their product back on the menu, and a reason to spend top 'sid on their equipment.

It'd be cool if the same was true of their armor.

[Pariah]

The only thing about the Salarri thing I don't like is the clanning piece.

Though I guess you could always make someone, join Salarr and leave, but the way codedly it probably works is that if you don't have clan salarr, you don't get the bonus.

I've had characters that worked in three different clans of their lives and if say I make a Salarri, get myself up to master in everything, then leave to go do my own shit, codedly I lose all my knowledge and ability.

I wish it was more of a character thing and less of a clanning thing.

I feel that way about all crafts, unless there is some specific tool that only Salarr has, it doesn't make sense that a crafter one day can make a diamond encrusted warsword +12, and then quit and lose all their knowledge and crafts.

There should be a way to steal knowledge and techniques from places to utilize as your own.

[mansa]

The only thing about the Salarri thing I don't like is the clanning piece.

Though I guess you could always make someone, join Salarr and leave, but the way codedly it probably works is that if you don't have clan salarr, you don't get the bonus.

I've had characters that worked in three different clans of their lives and if say I make a Salarri, get myself up to master in everything, then leave to go do my own shit, codedly I lose all my knowledge and ability.

I wish it was more of a character thing and less of a clanning thing.

I feel that way about all crafts, unless there is some specific tool that only Salarr has, it doesn't make sense that a crafter one day can make a diamond encrusted warsword +12, and then quit and lose all their knowledge and crafts.

There should be a way to steal knowledge and techniques from places to utilize as your own.

The way the FAQ answer is written, you might be able to "take your knowledge you learned while at Salarr, and custom craft something special" after you quit that clan.

Independent, self-taught crafters will not have the ability to make amazing weapons.

That says nothing about being employed, taught house secrets by Salarr...

[Pariah]

Well of course anything is possible with a request and staff permission.

I just tend to like the code to be automated more so than having to put a request in to explain why I'm great at making bone swords and this particular bone sword should be a masterpiece.

[mansa]

I don't think they will ever automate custom crafting new objects.