All Kings and Queens die, but how do they live thread.

[Shabago]

And go.

[mansa]

Can an elf become a lord of the mul outpost?

[Shabago]

Can an elf become a lord of the mul outpost?

Yes. Any race can take control.

[Riev]

What is stopping Allanaki Blues from just taking it over because they can command soldiers and this is the war they've been looking for?
What is stopping the gith from taking it over once more food and trade starts coming in?

What is stopping you from electing me High Chancellor of the Mul Pits?

[betweenford]

What is stopping Allanaki Blues from just taking it over because they can command soldiers and this is the war they've been looking for?
What is stopping the gith from taking it over once more food and trade starts coming in?

What is stopping you from electing me High Chancellor of the Mul Pits?

elves? Elves.

[Svalinya]

Can tribal factions (Sun Runner, Two Moons, Twin Tribes, etc) seize control, or will they be barred from participating?

[Shabago]

What is stopping Allanaki Blues from just taking it over because they can command soldiers and this is the war they've been looking for?
What is stopping the gith from taking it over once more food and trade starts coming in?

What is stopping you from electing me High Chancellor of the Mul Pits?

1) Same sort of reasons they didn't take over the salt camp, RSV, Luirs. Either it's entirely beneath their time or concern, or more profitable to leave it be for trade purposes. Can a Blue raise a group of PCs to go wipe out a bandit-leader causing issues? Possibly. An army? Pretty doubtful unless they really, really did something horrific to get that attention.
2) Same as now, really. They have their turf. The outpost has it's gates and people. Unless they were enticed to attack, it seems pointless for their losses.

3) Not a thing. Get on it!

[Shabago]

Can tribal factions (Sun Runner, Two Moons, Twin Tribes, etc) seize control, or will they be barred from participating?

They're out, yes.

[betweenford]

I can see them doing like a lil bit of raiding/razing and creating a power vacuum if the power in control of the outpost was bad

[kahuna]

My feedback for this won't be very long. I think Arm thrives when stuff like this happens organically. Let people chat about in DMs, post places that "shall not be named", and let the excitement spread like wildfire that way. I'm not a fan of role calls for the same reason, correct me if I'm wrong - they have historically not been well
received and I could never understand why I never got one, so I just stopped.

I think Arm fires on all cylinders when shit goes down far away from things like the GDB and discord. What I'm basically talking about is the integrity
of the game. It's a colossal effort but when done right that's when Arm (and any RPI mud) shines.

[Dar]

Mul Outpost has been taken over multiple times again and again and again. Usually as a staging area for further ... whatever.  Once the need is passed, the forces left and the survivors returned to the outpost.  The main reason why nobody conquered the outpost permanently is due to it being too useless for the level of effort required to survive in there.

[Riev]

My feedback for this won't be very long. I think Arm thrives when stuff like this happens organically. Let people chat about in DMs, post places that "shall not be named", and let the excitement spread like wildfire that way. I'm not a fan of role calls for the same reason, correct me if I'm wrong - they have historically not been well
received and I could never understand why I never got one, so I just stopped.

I think Arm fires on all cylinders when shit goes down far away from things like the GDB and discord. What I'm basically talking about is the integrity
of the game. It's a colossal effort but when done right that's when Arm (and any RPI mud) shines.

I don't know what you're trying to say here other than "Let someone take over the Outpost organically" and while I'd be for that... technically that outpost is more than 4 NPCs and the sponsored PC. Its pretty huge, so nobody is going to be "Fred that just got out of the Byn and decide to lead the mul outpost".

A sponsored role is SUPPOSED to be a "You're special in some way. You're noble, or were a really good Byn Sergeant and we need you in this non-virtual unit".

Amos and Malik can't just trot up and win the Mul Outpost. Because if they can, oh god is this a bad idea.
Amos and Malik can't just trot up and win the Mul Outpost. UNFAIR STAFF MY CHARACTER HAS 20DAYS PLAYED THEY CAN FIGHT A MUL.

[Hauwke]

My feedback for this won't be very long. I think Arm thrives when stuff like this happens organically. Let people chat about in DMs, post places that "shall not be named", and let the excitement spread like wildfire that way. I'm not a fan of role calls for the same reason, correct me if I'm wrong - they have historically not been well
received and I could never understand why I never got one, so I just stopped.

I think Arm fires on all cylinders when shit goes down far away from things like the GDB and discord. What I'm basically talking about is the integrity
of the game. It's a colossal effort but when done right that's when Arm (and any RPI mud) shines.

I'm not sure how much I can say, but it originally did happen organically to my knowledge. But Arm happened to the characters.

[Shabago]

My feedback for this won't be very long. I think Arm thrives when stuff like this happens organically. Let people chat about in DMs, post places that "shall not be named", and let the excitement spread like wildfire that way. I'm not a fan of role calls for the same reason, correct me if I'm wrong - they have historically not been well
received and I could never understand why I never got one, so I just stopped.

I think Arm fires on all cylinders when shit goes down far away from things like the GDB and discord. What I'm basically talking about is the integrity
of the game. It's a colossal effort but when done right that's when Arm (and any RPI mud) shines.

I'm not sure how much I can say, but it originally did happen organically to my knowledge. But Arm happened to the characters.

This had originally started (and stopped) twice before due to storage, RL issues, or what have you after initial staff plot (the group mentioned in the announcement post).

Credit where due, however, the biggest advancements belong to a specific PC, should they wish to name themselves. The Outpost isn't as barren as it once was. Two buildings, gates and a stable exist due to their efforts.

[mansa]

This has the feeling of something that has started in the past, and ultimately fell through.  (Governorship in Tuluk and being able to 'build' in the ruins, and the Council of Luir's Outpost)

Do you know where the faults were with the previous two systems in the past?
Do you know how to prevent the issues that arose in the two systems?

I would suggest to have an indepth "set the expectations for the players" so there isn't "scope creep"?   


I would like this project to be successful, and I don't want to see the mistakes of the past be duplicated.

[Wday]

With the known of tribes not able to be in a control figure there.  Will the Post be counted as part of the tablelands and tribes there or as something new due to the pc leadership?

[Barsook]

Sounds like blockades in Puzzle Pirates where a flag can control an island.

[cali]

My feedback for this won't be very long. I think Arm thrives when stuff like this happens organically. Let people chat about in DMs, post places that "shall not be named", and let the excitement spread like wildfire that way. I'm not a fan of role calls for the same reason, correct me if I'm wrong - they have historically not been well
received and I could never understand why I never got one, so I just stopped.

I think Arm fires on all cylinders when shit goes down far away from things like the GDB and discord. What I'm basically talking about is the integrity
of the game. It's a colossal effort but when done right that's when Arm (and any RPI mud) shines.

I don't know what you're trying to say here other than "Let someone take over the Outpost organically" and while I'd be for that... technically that outpost is more than 4 NPCs and the sponsored PC. Its pretty huge, so nobody is going to be "Fred that just got out of the Byn and decide to lead the mul outpost".

A sponsored role is SUPPOSED to be a "You're special in some way. You're noble, or were a really good Byn Sergeant and we need you in this non-virtual unit".

Amos and Malik can't just trot up and win the Mul Outpost. Because if they can, oh god is this a bad idea.
Amos and Malik can't just trot up and win the Mul Outpost. UNFAIR STAFF MY CHARACTER HAS 20DAYS PLAYED THEY CAN FIGHT A MUL.

A 20 days played character seems well qualified to try and take over.  Certainty more then someone who wrote a couple paragraphs about what they did virtually.

[kahuna]

I don't know what you're trying to say here other than "Let someone take over the Outpost organically"

All I'm trying to say is that there is a lot of stuff in the game that happened because players (and staff) ran with it, which should happen more often. I'm just not a fan of looking for players on an OOC forum. Let players app what they want, if there's an opening, first come, first serve. The rolecall process is flawed, needlessly tedious and I don't think it sets up special PCs at all, I think it diminishes in game processes and efforts.

[Riev]

I know what youre saying. Believe me. But what is the difference?

Whether you actually played the 20d or not, the story is the same. So should fun things only go to people who play more time than others?

[BadSkeelz]

I've long advocated that if you kill a sponsored role your character gets to become the sponsored role.

Jokes aside, I hope this doesn't further dilute the playerbase or encourage any punitive adjustments to current PC hubs to try and force players towards it.

[kahuna]

So should fun things only go to people who play more time than others?

More time invested should equal more something, I wouldn't say fun but if someone is playing more and doing more they should reap the benefits of that play time, yes.

[Dan]

Couple questions:

Do those that take over the Outpost become sponsored in that role?

Are 'takeover' RPT times established by the owner, attacker or staff?

Are there going to be takeover times or can it be a surprise to the owning entity of a group just rolls in out of nowhere?

Can the owning entity set NPCs to be hostile to certain individuals or clans?
   -Does the owning entity get NPCs?

Can magickers take over the Outpost?

Is there a set limit/list/type of construction upgrade or will we have agency to get creative?

[Krath]

I've long advocated that if you kill a sponsored role your character gets to become the sponsored role.

Jokes aside, I hope this doesn't further dilute the playerbase or encourage any punitive adjustments to current PC hubs to try and force players towards it.

There can be only one! I support this 100%

[Inks]

I'm very interested in seeing where this and other changes go. Kudos, staff, I appreciate the effort, game is always feeling fresh lately no matter what!

[Kismetic]

So should fun things only go to people who play more time than others?

More time invested should equal more something, I wouldn't say fun but if someone is playing more and doing more they should reap the benefits of that play time, yes.

I have found that to be something closer to the opposite.  The more I invested, the more upset I was that not only did things not go my way, but the complete other way.  It is not a lot different than dynamics I've seen in my career in real life.  The people who kiss the most ass tend to skyrocket to the top.  Them's just life rules.  I take it a lot less personally, now.

Aside from that, there's a lot to like here, Shabago.  This is the kind of thing that the game should've had all along, but no less credit due for finally coming across it.

[Shabago]

This has the feeling of something that has started in the past, and ultimately fell through.  (Governorship in Tuluk and being able to 'build' in the ruins, and the Council of Luir's Outpost)

Do you know where the faults were with the previous two systems in the past?
Do you know how to prevent the issues that arose in the two systems?

I would suggest to have an indepth "set the expectations for the players" so there isn't "scope creep"?   


I would like this project to be successful, and I don't want to see the mistakes of the past be duplicated.

Re: Faults in the past two systems.

My particular view is rather simple on those attempts. Too many cooks in the kitchen and or not enough 'true' power to reflect the changes. This is more based upon theme and need than anything else, in those locations. In order to reflect realism, power struggles, opposing views, road-blocks that would have to be over come, political rivals, on and on. That makes a niche space to move in for effected change. Or, with too many cooks, delays and in-fighting on gathering a consensus - OR choices that would've went against theme/power scope. Neither of these apply to the Mul Outpost.

Re: Avoiding the same issues.

By throwing out that tool box as defunct and handing over new tools and power scope, and have a 'King/Queen' to make final decisions and move on it, rather than wait for 'Seniors' to head nod for theme.

Re: Expectations and creep.

Alluded to in the original post. There will be some guard rails to begin with, and be viewed as a pilot project to see how it gets on. Beyond that, rules are posted. If you want individual aspects spoken to outside of the dedicated GDB to the area, ask 'em and I'll answer. This is intended to be rather open source on how it all works to the player base.

[Shabago]

With the known of tribes not able to be in a control figure there.  Will the Post be counted as part of the tablelands and tribes there or as something new due to the pc leadership?

It will remain and be considered part of the tablelands. A known entity to the tribes, sure. As to how it's treated going forward - well, that'll be up to the savvy person(s) in control/living there.

[Shabago]

I've long advocated that if you kill a sponsored role your character gets to become the sponsored role.

Jokes aside, I hope this doesn't further dilute the playerbase or encourage any punitive adjustments to current PC hubs to try and force players towards it.

There is no intention to do so, no.

Instead, natural gravitation based on what's the most 'engaging' will continue to draw the main crowd, I suspect. Nor is anyone locked in to having to be there 24/7. Travel to other areas (and interaction) will likely be a necessity as much as a want, for politics, supplies, etc.

[Shabago]

Couple questions:

Do those that take over the Outpost become sponsored in that role?

Yes

Are 'takeover' RPT times established by the owner, attacker or staff?

Attacker initiates with staff, staff acts as middle man mediator for what times work best for everyone - then go time.

Are there going to be takeover times or can it be a surprise to the owning entity of a group just rolls in out of nowhere?

I'm not opposed to adding specific times to work within for 'surprise' attacks, should that prove a need or want.

Can the owning entity set NPCs to be hostile to certain individuals or clans?
   -Does the owning entity get NPCs?

Yes and yes.

Can magickers take over the Outpost?

Yes.

Is there a set limit/list/type of construction upgrade or will we have agency to get creative?

Outside of making sprawling apartment block of barred, impenetrable doors that require battering rams from Ten'Serak to get through? I'm pretty open to creativity.

[najdorf]

This is incredible news, and the location is spot on, to include a broad range of players / clans.

[perfecto]

      Oh Hamburgers!! Super Phun Times Ahead!!!!

      Love the premise, but like many others I've a few questions to add.

1 ~ It's been said that existing elf tribes aren't to move in, what about all the other established factions?   Where are we drawing the line here?  Tor, Fale, Kadius, Kurac, East or West rinthies? 
      Or is this mainly aimed at Indies, nomads, MM houses,  start-up crews?

2 ~ Is the Lord/Lady of the outpost allowed to rename "Their" outpost once they have firmly taken hold?

3 ~ Noted that any leader should have a strong second in command should the worst probably never ever happen.. but every character (and player alike) has a shelf life.  Is there going to be
      some manner of allotted time/effort/build structure/political poise, that one Leader must hold the outpost for that brings this venture to a close?   Or at least, no more structured weekly
      incursions from the next Amos and friends?

[Inks]

Yeah, don't let the Byn take it please. Haha.

[Delirium]

There is a difference between letting elf and human tribes "move in" and letting them trade. Strike a deal for deliveries of x supply and a cut of profits in exchange for letting them set up a stall, etc. Create a supply chain. Logistics.

Tribes are self-interested, and anything that threatens a new source of profit and stability...

That is how you try to make it not worth taking you on, because they're also taking on x, y, z and w tribe.

[Shabago]

      Oh Hamburgers!! Super Phun Times Ahead!!!!

      Love the premise, but like many others I've a few questions to add.

1 ~ It's been said that existing elf tribes aren't to move in, what about all the other established factions?   Where are we drawing the line here?  Tor, Fale, Kadius, Kurac, East or West rinthies? 
      Or is this mainly aimed at Indies, nomads, MM houses,  start-up crews?

2 ~ Is the Lord/Lady of the outpost allowed to rename "Their" outpost once they have firmly taken hold?

3 ~ Noted that any leader should have a strong second in command should the worst probably never ever happen.. but every character (and player alike) has a shelf life.  Is there going to be
      some manner of allotted time/effort/build structure/political poise, that one Leader must hold the outpost for that brings this venture to a close?   Or at least, no more structured weekly
      incursions from the next Amos and friends?

1: Yes, this is 'indy' focused by and large. Existing clans/armies are largely out for 'ownership'.
2: They are.
3: No. Anyone can try to take it over at any point. If it can't be held, even with various 'building' done, then I imagine those that take it over will thank you for it and repurpose to their views. 

[betweenford]

Despite being out of the way for ownership and such, I can see alot of the clans in the area vying for, vouching, and outright killing said leader for one reason or another, whether by history or hatred of CANT HAVE MAGICKS IN MY BACKYARD stuff. Are these plots going to be dissuaded?

[Shabago]

That rather depends on the leader.

If they make political efforts with various groups that present some sort of interest, why would said groups care or want to attack? Killing for killing sake is generally poor form.

If they invite trouble onto themselves, well... they invited it.

[betweenford]

That rather depends on the leader.

If they make political efforts with various groups that present some sort of interest, why would said groups care or want to attack? Killing for killing sake is generally poor form.

If they invite trouble onto themselves, well... they invited it.

idk quick example is that they're a sorcerer themselves or a sorcerer's servant, despite the politicking and trade and goodwill and such

[Dar]

I played a rinthi sorc once.  When I got outed, a rinthi guildster was hired to kill me.

I was warned by the guildster who was hired, the templar who did the hiring, an AoD person, the other templar, and for the oddest reason some kuraci dude. All within a rl day.  I think diplomacy and politics are a force in this game.

[Shabago]

That rather depends on the leader.

If they make political efforts with various groups that present some sort of interest, why would said groups care or want to attack? Killing for killing sake is generally poor form.

If they invite trouble onto themselves, well... they invited it.

idk quick example is that they're a sorcerer themselves or a sorcerer's servant, despite the politicking and trade and goodwill and such

Being discovered as a sorc would be inviting trouble. No sorc is permitted to live, by law of the lands or cities.

[Riev]

Killing for killing sake is generally poor form.

Just as a note that "poor form" doesn't stop anyone. I know a concern of mine is that I wouldn't want to be restricted to a dozen rooms (like a slave) and would want to go out, explore, visit settlements etc etc.

Nothing really stops some GMH from saying "You're taking trade away from us so we're going to kill you" or some random 'rinthi elf saying "Nice boots".

[Dan]

Killing for killing sake is generally poor form.

Just as a note that "poor form" doesn't stop anyone. I know a concern of mine is that I wouldn't want to be restricted to a dozen rooms (like a slave) and would want to go out, explore, visit settlements etc etc.

Nothing really stops some GMH from saying "You're taking trade away from us so we're going to kill you" or some random 'rinthi elf saying "Nice boots".

Sounds like whoever this is will receive NPCs under their command. I wouldn't be surprised if (at least while in their immediate area of responsibility) they could call them to their side, or possibly take them to certain meetings, along with any other PC followers.

Edit to add: I'd also expect the leader of an outpost to spend almost all of their time there managing the logistics and day-to-day, often employing others to send messages. If Kurac kills your messenger for taking their trade you can set NPCs aggro to them and carry on, sans one dead minion. Then you'd either need to find a way to entice them back to the table.

[Dracul]

Okay one of my favorite things I did with a fairly uninteresting dwarf (Keen, King Rat, a touched dwarf) who managed to get promoted just enough in the guild to order around an npc was to have the npc emote in the bar and meta trick people into thinking an imm was around. Honestly though I really did enjoy the extra ability to add atmosphere.

[Barsook]

It's been two months, how are people liking it?

[mansa]

It's been two months, how are people liking it?

That's a question the playerbase is not allowed to answer, because:
a) It's talking about In-Character events and storylines that are current is disallowed.
b) Any of the players involved haven't been dead for more than a year.

[Dracul]

It is about a month under a year since this was announced, and a few months since the last rumor board posting have been up on the major city state and rumor boards.

Is this something we can discuss yet? How it went, well, how it went poorly, how it went as exactly as expected, or off the rails.

[Tuannon]

b) Any of the players involved haven't been dead for more than a year.

[Doublepalli]

Yes, any race can take the outpost.

But you have to consider the losses you'd sustain from seizing an outpost ran by battle hardened muls

[Riev]

I feel pretty confident that project lost all its support when Shabago left.

[Inks]

The project was dropped due to Shabago leaving staff.

A year hasn't passed on related and linked PCs and events.

[Tuannon]

Locking this for now, seems people are back and forthing about the same ideas.