Recent Poison Updates Questions

[Halaster]

Don't peraine items decay too, per the previous system?

No, see https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,58086.msg1080585.html#msg1080585

[Kaathe]

notes from discord chatter:

Current peraine will be the highest form.

Old grishen is midway on the new scale.

Low strength cures lessen the effects of high strength poisons, but don't remove it

Poisons can stack but it takes a lot.

Cures and brewed poisons decay even when logged out over the timescale of weeks and months.

I'll be going over this thread to summarize any factoids not in helpfiles already so we can be 1 to 1.

[Brokkr]

Don't peraine items decay too, per the previous system?

Yes there are still scripts on all peraine/heramide objs.  I anticipate once these poisons are converted to the new poison system we will remove them and let the new system take care of the aging.

[mansa]

Is there an adjective that describes cure tablets that no-longer function as a cure?

So, you have a "tablet", a "old tablet", and "non-functioning tablet", or something similar?

[Halaster]

Is there an adjective that describes cure tablets that no-longer function as a cure?

So, you have a "tablet", a "old tablet", and "non-functioning tablet", or something similar?

old

[Nao]

What level of cure can you make with master brew? Do the ingredients matter more than with the previous versions of cures?

[Brokkr]

Nearly the best tablet craftable, nearly the best vial craftable.  To make the best, you would also need poisoning.

[Lotion]

Is every herb of the same taste of equal quality to other herbs?

[mansa]

Is every herb of the same taste of equal quality to other herbs?

Afaik, yes.  The only difference is the potential colour output.

[Nao]

The most recent announcement says the poison updates are done. But what about Skellebane?

[DrunkenSalarr]

The most recent announcement says the poison updates are done. But what about Skellebane?

The real question is "But what about Loosetongue?"

[Halaster]

The most recent announcement says the poison updates are done. But what about Skellebane?

https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,58086.msg1080764.html#msg1080764

[Nao]

Should successfully poisoning something with a <strength> poison, like

You assess a tiny jar of icky poison...
...it is primarily made of plant.
...is a <strength> poison!
...you detect an adjective, adjective noun.
...it is very light.

always result in an adjective, adjective noun on the weapon?

I know it will decay eventually, I'm asking about the result immediately after poisoning the weapon.

[Hestia]

Should successfully poisoning something with a <strength> poison, like

You assess a tiny jar of icky poison...
...it is primarily made of plant.
...is a <strength> poison!
...you detect an adjective, adjective noun.
...it is very light.

always result in an adjective, adjective noun on the weapon?

I know it will decay eventually, I'm asking about the result immediately after poisoning the weapon.

The answer is something you can find out in game, if you have the appropriate skill.

[Nao]

I know what the result is/has been in game. It's not what I expected. This may be intentional, or it may be a bug. Thus the question if it's intended to work like I described. 

[Hestia]

I know what the result is/has been in game. It's not what I expected. This may be intentional, or it may be a bug. Thus the question if it's intended to work like I described.

Definitely deserving of a request then. If you have a log and date-stamp of the attempt, even better.

[mansa]

RE:  Tablet Cures Shapes:
https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,58437.0.html

I have a request:
Could we put a 'pill shaper' item in all the NPC herbalist shops in the major villages?
Tuluk, Luir's Outpost, Blackwing Outpost, Allanak, and Red Storm?

Thanks!

[TragicMagick]

How are poison saves gonna work now, in combination with poison immunity and higher potency poisons?

I haven't touched immunity at all so far.

Saves will not make you just ignore a poison any longer, it will just make you suffer a lowered potency.  In that regard, poisons are going to become more harmful.  But, lesser potency poisons aren't typically going to be lethal, unless of course you're already in bad shape.  That is not in place yet, we're still on the "old" system.  I'll make an announcement and more details when that happens.

Does immunity the PC may have from the old system provide any benefit to the new system? Is the plan to port that over once immunity gets updated?

And regarding poison decay, do you expect to have mundane items that would slow poison and cure decay? Magickal spells/objects that might slow it?

[Halaster]

How are poison saves gonna work now, in combination with poison immunity and higher potency poisons?

I haven't touched immunity at all so far.

Saves will not make you just ignore a poison any longer, it will just make you suffer a lowered potency.  In that regard, poisons are going to become more harmful.  But, lesser potency poisons aren't typically going to be lethal, unless of course you're already in bad shape.  That is not in place yet, we're still on the "old" system.  I'll make an announcement and more details when that happens.

Does immunity the PC may have from the old system provide any benefit to the new system? Is the plan to port that over once immunity gets updated?

And regarding poison decay, do you expect to have mundane items that would slow poison and cure decay? Magickal spells/objects that might slow it?

1. Yes if you had it.  I'm undecided on what to do about immunity, but I'll probably update it soon to work with the new system.
2. I have no plans, but I'm open to suggestions.

[mansa]

I've been gathering some feedback during a discussion in Discord, and here are some points brought up:


If these two variables were changed:
* the time it takes from ingesting a cure before the cure takes affect should be shorter than what it is now.
* the time it takes for a cure to degrading in proficiency should be longer.

If the available of cures for offpeak players where increased
If the price of cures were adjusted (lesser, assuming you would eat a cure /before/ you leave the city every time)
If certain poisonous creatures were decreased in population
If poison affects were decreased in time, and cure affects were increased in duration
Bloodburn doesn't prevent healing (only at higher poison level)
Allow lower level bandage skill help against poisons, and not just master bandage.

[Brokkr]

But what is the goal?

Making it easier to survive against poisons generally?
Making it easier to survive against NPCs with poisons generally?
Making it easier to survive against easy NPCs with poisons that are fairly widespread generally (which is like only 2 poison types)?

I know this may sound pedantic, but we also have the overall goals of the poison change, to make poisons outside of ones that completely incapacitate PCs useful and dangerous to PCs (embedded in this is not too easily cured).  So some suggestions and goals have better or worse alignment with this.

[Kaathe]

@brokkr I'll also recapp from the discord chat the issues that led to the suggestions Mansa posted. This is a recap, not my personal opinion which may or may not agree with these:

1. Dying because you got jumped by cilops/angk, knocked down to half HP, poisoned, and only have a couple of store bought tablets is entirely too harsh given the prevalence of the NPCs. We're locking low and even mid-level PCs out of entire sectors of the game.

2. Maintaining cures is a lot of grinding either in effort or coin, and due to them decaying in real time it's unfair to players with lower play time and off-peakers who can't find apothecaries. Longer decay times or disabling decay when logged out would make it less unfair to low play-timers and off-peakers.

[mansa]

In my opinion,

The play of the game has changed with the new cures.  Players are expecting to get poisoned, eat a cure, and be safe, and this isn't happening.


I think the current game system with cures could use a change to be more like the previous iteration of cures:
a) Cures should take effect much quicker than it current does.  Players want to know that they have done something correctly and the game will respond with "Yes, typed the right information at the right time", rather than waiting to see if they pushed the buttons in the right combination.
This is a .. gameplay and response mechanic, and the current delay of "Yes, you did the right combination of buttons to survive." is very unsatisfactory.  Player triggers should be near immediate, game triggers can be delayed.


b) If you taken a cure before you leave on your adventure, the game should be explicit in telling the players they have a 'cure protection' going on, and this 'cure protection' should last the typical outdoor adventure time, something like 9 hours in game, or 90 minutes. 
This type of gameplay mechanic should be the goal for this change, and players aren't doing it because the "everybody get your buffs before you go outside" doesn't last long enough.


c) The price of cures is expensive, if the designed gameplay is to consume them before every outdoor adventure.



I think recent change in cures hasn't been a good experience with the playerbase.

[betweenford]

I think most of the other poisons are fine after the poison changes, but maybe the weakest variant of bloodburn could use some tweaks and adjustments, especially when it comes down to its side effects and possibly its effects when someone is in critical condition.

As a tremendously weak poison, instead of its current effects which are the same regardless of if someone is in critical condition... what of it just made critical recovery rolls more difficult while also communicating this to the player?

Outside of being in critical condition, the other side effects could stand to be more similar to certain other poisons, where rest in a relatively safe spot can or might combat the effect of the poison, but again, also impaired and making your regen worse.

[lostinspace]

Blocking all regen sucks from a playability standpoint. Nothing like afking for an hour because your stamina won't regen. Another oddity is that flat blocking all regen doesn't scale with poison potency, the worst is as good as the best if they both reduce regen to 0.

Currently:
This is weak bloodburn, it hurts a little and prevents all hp regen.
This is perfect bloodburn, it hurts a lot and prevents all hp regen.

IMO it'd be better as reductions of regen caps:
This is weak bloodburn, it hurts a little and lowers how high you can regen to 85% of your normal HP.
This is perfect bloodburn, it hurts a lot and lowers the cap you can regen to 30% of your normal HP.

Or as a reduction on regen amounts:
This is weak bloodburn, it hurts a little and lowers how much you heal naturally by 1. So now you heal 4 instead of 5.
This is strong bloodburn, it hurts a lot and lowers how much you heal naturally by 5. So now you heal 1 instead of 5.

This approach also leaves room for classes with improved regen types to not suffer as much. Strong bloodburn might completely block your ability to regen for some classes, while allowing a small amount to go through for classes more focused on combat and healing.