MECHANIC PROPOSAL: Goons

[MeTekillot]

I propose that players be able to all have NPC goons. As it is now, the only people with goons are those who work their way up into sponsored role power levels, of which the ceiling is quite low once you have 1-2 NPCs following you around.

I propose this idea with the theory that in having NPCs at their beck and call, players will both be able to and feel like they're able to affect more meaningful change. We could strictly limit the number of goons you have as follows: Max Karma * 3 + 1. This limit would be in place for the reason the karma system is itself in place: Trust in the player to responsibly use the additional coded and atmospheric power that karma roles currently call for.

Along with this idea, I also propose that a player be able to elect a right-hand from their goons, with the following features for doing so:

You are able to play your right hand in the same manner that people may play a Penned Gladiator. Send them off on small tasks and in so doing, get a chance to take a break from being the big important leader who can't risk themself or they lose all their hard-earned progress if they're killed.
You are able to take over as your right hand if your primary character dies, with staff approval.
However, your right hand is removed from the pool of NPCs you may order around, but they still apply to the max number of goons you can have.

Staff would, of course, keep oversight of this whole arrangement. Players would be able to more realistically play out accruing personal power bases, if that's their sort of thing. The clunkiness of the NPC ordering system would still making having PCs as your backup vastly more preferable.

[Lotion]

playing your "right hand" is a neat concept and if a player can be trusted to play a character that would have such a role (gmh dealer+, templar, noble, etc.) they should be trustworthy enough for such a feature. it would be cool if they can whip out a "right hand" toon if their aide, etc was not around but they still needed feet on the ground and ears in the streets

[Athapaxis]

This seems like a really clever idea and something that could add a lot of fun.

[sucre]

I'd love to have a family member or two to hang around!

[stoicreader]

Genius

[pilgrim]

Awesome idea. This could also be a great moneysink since you'd have to pay goons in some way or another.

[Armaddict]

I really don't think you need more ways to be able to accomplish more with less dependence on other PC's.  I already have issues with how the new classes made people utterly too capable as far as breadth of skills (particularly combined with extended subguilds).  Making it so that they have npc's to do things that you can legitimately hire PC's for is just asking to further reduce the actual drive to find other PC's.

Survive on your own?  Great.  Move towards accomplishing everything on your own?  Problematic.

[Miradus]

I agree with Armaddict.

At this point, while NPC minions are a neat idea, anything that reduces further human interaction in our troubling hour of low player counts is something to be passed by.

[Fredd]

Why would you tie goons to karma level? That seems like a bad idea.

It would be neat if you could get goons somehow ICly.

[Riev]

Why would you tie goons to karma level? That seems like a bad idea.

It would be neat if you could get goons somehow ICly.

0 Karma needed. Just head to the nearest tavern and wait to meet up with other social paraiahs.

[slipshod]

I would be concerned by the incorruptibility of these goons.  If they are being controlled by the player of the leader character, it seems unlikely they would be open to betraying their leader character.

A leader's right hand goon should be a prime target for that leader's enemies and opponents, and should be vulnerable to bribes, blackmail, corporate espionage, kompromat, poaching, etc.

[MURDERhobo]

+1 as the word "Betrayal" is in the tagline of the game.

I once begged for goons in a special app and it was denied, this, in part, is why.

[Athapaxis]

Why would you tie goons to karma level? That seems like a bad idea.

It would be neat if you could get goons somehow ICly.

Making things easier to do without help might actually increase player numbers since if you can do some things yourself, a lot of the frustration and boredom goes away.   If numbers go up, interactions will go up as well.

Sometimes I think we look at it backwards...

[Armaddict]

Making things easier to do without help might actually increase player numbers since if you can do some things yourself, a lot of the frustration and boredom goes away.   If numbers go up, interactions will go up as well.

Sometimes I think we look at it backwards...

Unfortunately, the way this works the way you put it is that by enabling everyone to be able to do everything by themselves, the priority of playtime becomes -to- get everything done themselves.  Priority goes towards personal maintenance first.  The drive for interaction falters here, it doesn't grow; even opportunity for interaction is now being weighted against the progress you planned on via the new safety net of having your goons as your buddies.

Putting as much -real benefit- through interaction creates interaction that is also real, and meaningful.  Putting as much emphasis on a bunch of players doing their own thing with interactions rising as a result is facilitating for the lack of interaction, but claiming it does the opposite.  It's like trickle-down economics of interaction; remove the barriers that incentivize a behavior, make the claim it will increase as a result of the lack of barrier, then sit back and watch as human nature enters and the interaction gap grows rather than shrinks.

[mansa]

It would be cool if you could hire 1 NPC for a 90 minute play session.

You would be unable to use the 'kill' command with it, it can only guard/rescue you.

If you do not return the NPC to the shop ((basically if you kill the NPC), the next time you try and rent an NPC the price is doubled, and so on.

The NPC is equivalent to a 24 hour played fighter class.

[Athapaxis]

Unfortunately, the way this works the way you put it is that by enabling everyone to be able to do everything by themselves, the priority of playtime becomes -to- get everything done themselves.  Priority goes towards personal maintenance first.  The drive for interaction falters here, it doesn't grow; even opportunity for interaction is now being weighted against the progress you planned on via the new safety net of having your goons as your buddies.

Do we know that for sure or do we just suspect it? 

If lack of people to help you do what you want makes you bored then you may quit playing and numbers will go down and then it spirals.  If you can use game mechanics to do that thing, maybe you'll go to a different city where you'll meet a bunch of new people and now you have new people to interact with.  Or maybe the goons make you do that thing by yourself but in so doing you run across the alley gang who have been waiting for someone to come along that they can jump because you've been sitting in your apartment trying to Way the same three people for days...

I think it's possible that making more things easy to do yourself will lead to more interaction.  I don't know for sure, but I don't think its out of the question.

[najdorf]

It would be cool if you could hire 1 NPC for a 90 minute play session.

You would be unable to use the 'kill' command with it, it can only guard/rescue you.

If you do not return the NPC to the shop ((basically if you kill the NPC), the next time you try and rent an NPC the price is doubled, and so on.

The NPC is equivalent to a 24 hour played fighter class.

this is a better solution. too many npc controls and it has risk of turning the game into a necromancer party

[najdorf]

and make it a byn service where byn pc s can go and add themselves into the pool of hlavailable hires. if pc is in pool npc option is out

[MeTekillot]

Nevermind.

[Ulga]

tbh this feature would help a ton in the absence of an abundance of players. Player goons would be better, but there are only so many players around.

[MeTekillot]

Bumping this.

[askaran]

Even if it's just giving clans goons, like some npc troopers that Sergeant Amos can muster up would be neat. Can't tell you how many times something had to be cancelled or put off or, what could've been a cool day to go out and get some stuff done, couldn't get done, because it's just you and some runners. Or just you.. Sorry Lord Templar I can't guard your function because I have one pc trooper who can only play ever third sunday a month for thirty minutes.. Not to knock you if you've been that trooper, i've 100% been that trooper.

[askaran]

Harshlands does this pretty well I think, the goons are expensive but accessible to anyone who can afford them. And its stated in the helpfiles they won't do everything you want them to, staff can and will animate them if you regularly put them in situations they didn't sign up for.

[najdorf]

I like the idea

[wizturbo]

Like the concept, but would advise we go with a crawl > walk > run approach.

Let people hire 1 mercenary that will work for them for a fixed amount of time for X amount of coin.  When the timer is up, you have to pay them again or they stop following you.  Have there be a few mercenary types.   Laborers (cheap, have foresting/mining skills) and guards (moderately expensive, have decent guard/defensive skills and low weapon skills), and Fighters who have more offensive skills (most expensive).