Emotes and RL terms

[crymerci]

And another thing...

I've often stopped myself in the middle of typing something like

emote after a prolonged search, @ fishes a key out of ~pack.

Does it matter that fishing and fish are foreign concepts on Zalanthas?  Or is it ok to use in an emote?

What about RL figures of speech or phrases? One of my characters once said something along the lines of "I wouldn't want to be in her shoes" or "try walking in his shoes for awhile" and the person she was speaking to pretended not to understand what she meant. Ok, not ok?

[tortall]

The way I always saw using words that are purely earth-baised is this: the words are ment to show the -player- what the world looks like. So they can, in turn, react icly. There are just some things we want to do, that arn't Zalanthain words.


-Tortall, the water-meloned woman.

I wonder if the imms would accept that sdesc?

[SailorMars]

Catching those phrases or sayings that we use IRL so commonly but would probably not be heard in Zalanthas is a good thing for the verisimilitutude of the world.

Uh, huh, huh, she said verisimilitude.
Heh, heh, cool.

:rumages around in her pack, being sure not to fish.

tell mantis You son of a... of a... female gortok!

[Anonymous]

I'm with Tortall.

[Marauder Moe]

I always try to Zalanthize any words/phrases/metaphores/similes/etc in both my speaking AND emoting.  Thats my personal preference, though.  If someone else emotes something like "fishing through a pack" it doesn't really bother me that much.  However, I won't ignore a spoken reference and will have my character misunderstand appropriately.

[tortall]

A spoken referance is something else. I mean, you wouldn't say, I'd need to go fishing in my pack to find it. I ment purely in emotes.



-Tortall

[Wintermute]

I'm with SailorMars.  And that verisi thing too.

Seriously, it helps me get into the mindset of playing a Zalanthan, if I have to think about these things.  It's somewhat jarring if someone stares at me icily.  Yes, I get what you mean, but why not use coldly instead?  Or better yet, with narrowed eyes.

[mansa]

I use fishes.  Actually, I know a guy, who does the most creative emotes.  How?  Because..well.  he did this:

emote gets the hell out of the way.

emote tips up ~keg overtop of ~trim and lets it rip!

I love that guy.   I've used 'Fishes' and other things.  Because.. well.  You can only use 'rummage' a few times.  I don't find it jarring at all.  But, I've noticed other people do.  So, no more reference to ice and fish for me.

[Cuttlefish]

Also, there's the possibility of "vestigial" phrases.  For instance, to "dial" a phone is already pretty meaningless, since phones no longer have dials.  The same holds true for TV when the announcer comes on and says "Don't touch that dial!"

Speaking of rummage:
rummage - 1526, "act of arranging cargo in a ship," aphetic of M.Fr. arrumage "arrangement of cargo," from arrumer "to stow cargo," from a- "to" + rumer, probably from Gmc. (cf. O.N. rum "compartment in a ship," O.H.G. rum "space," O.E. rum, see room). Meaning "to search (the hold of a ship) thoroughly" first recorded 1628. Rummage sale is 1858, originally a sale at docks of unclaimed goods.

Heh heh heh

As long as you're not using it literally (e.g. emote makes a face like a fish) it shouldn't be a huge problem.  Now, if you start referring to airplanes and computers, you need to tone it down a bit.

Back to the specific word "fishes" - who says Zalanthas never ever had fishes?  It's common legend that it wasn't ALWAYS a blasted desert.  It's possible that long long ago there were water and fishes.  Just because the world changes, don't expect the language to not carry around the artifacts.

[creeper386]

I personally think something like,

emote makes a fish face.

Would be completely logical. How the hell else are you going to describe that?

As for words terms that aren't common to the world... Some people got to remember, ICly they aren't speaking English. Whatever YOU as a player are reading is being translated to your characters language. So just because you read, "I had to fish around my apartment for some things, sorry I was late." Doesn't mean your character hears some unknown words he hasn't heard before. Yes it may be jarring. Yes it should be kept to a minimum. But things like that bullshit, "I well not ignore it and I'll have my character act like my character has no clue what your character is talking about." Shouldn't exist. Most of us here speak English. We have to communicate with English. That means we used English words, and sometimes slip up with sayings. Don't have to be an ass about it. Perhaps if someone is ALWAYS doing it, you can email the MUD account asking politely that a note be passed to the player that you wrote and is polite itself or ask for them to talk with the player about it, but if it's an occassional slip up, just go with it. It's being translated for your character.

Creeper

[Sandstorm Phoenix]

I personally think something like,

emote makes a fish face.

Would be completely logical. How the hell else are you going to describe that?

emote puckers his lips and sucks his cheeks in.

pemote As he looks at ~creeper, @ eyes bulge out.


Down with the anachronistic or misplaced references.

[Rindan]

If someone says, "Hold on a second, I need to fish around in my pockets for the key."  and someone responses "What do you mean by 'fish'?" they are being a prick in my opinion.  It is pretty damn clear fishing has absolutely nothing to do with the creatures that swim in the ocean in this case.  All words are just translations, and even though 'fishes' in this context comes from an ocean refference, the actualy meaning has nothing to do with fish or the ocean.  It is just another English word being translated into Sirihish, and this case it is being translated into whatever the Sirihish word is for poking around for something.  The only thing that getting stuck up on a word like this does is utterly ruin RP.  

Personally, I suggest dealing with this by calling the other person an idiot if they have a problem.  If someone complains about using the word fishes in the context of looking for something in a pocket, then call them a idiot for not knowing what it means.

[Cuttlefish]

Yeah, I think pointing it out IC is a totally bad idea, since there's no way you can respond IC.  It's like pointing out IC that someone typed "their" when they should have typed "there".  I also agree with creeper on the ponit of not worrying about it because English is not Sirihish, anyway (otherwise it would be called English).

If you're going to be stickler and complain about it, do it OOC.

[James de Monet]

Ooh, this thread is stale.  Sorry.  It's an appropriate venue for my question though, which is, aside from fishing for things, what about words that you do have to use in conversation, like "shipment" as in a shipment of goods?  Obviously, ship here is an anaclimatic idea, but what are you going to say?  Delivery?  Too modern.  Cargo?  Same problem as shipment.  A crate?  "I'm waiting for a crate to be...you know...caravanned over here."

And what about things like metals?

The nondescript man visibly steels himself.


Do you really want to change that to:

The nondescript man visibly obsidians himself.

Or even:

The nondescript man visibly bones himself.


I have a feeling they'd understand better if you just said "steels."  Thoughts?

[Dakkon Black]

I see it as so.

This is a text based game.

We are from Earth.

If you can describe something more accurately with an earth based term, do it.

Your char might not know what the hell a fish is, but you do as a player, and when someone is fishing in their pocket, it paints the exact image for me of what they are doing.

[Lazloth]

I can't believe this three year old thread wasn't bumped by a spambot.

I fish.

[Larrath]

I usually rummage, but sometimes I too go fishing.

It all in all depends very very heavily on the specific phrases and terms.  As long as the emotes' feel and the atmosphere creates by the words suits Zalanthas, I'm usually okay.
I'm very much against any joke emotes or emotes that contain narration.  Emotes that describe anything particularly frosty (excepting icy stares which are simply hostile stares) are usually bad in my book, as well as anything that relates to technology.  If a realistic Zalanthan alternative is available, I'd rather see it used - fast running creatures should be compared to erdlu and raptors as opposed to cheetahs.
If it's a verb such as 'steel', I don't mind it as long as it's not used in a jarring context.

Ideally, I like emotes that are clinical and moderately picturesque about what they describe.  Detached but in detail and with the occasional backdrop, atmosphere or random background noise.  Or involving boobies in any way.

[spawnloser]

Steel exists, unlike a cheetah, I think I should point out, in Arm.  Ice doesn't.

As far as the shipment goes, there are ships...that sail the silt sea.  Don't worry about using/not using the word 'shipment.'

Remember, people, we are trying to create a mood, yes, but our characters are NOT speaking English.  Some non-zalanthan things can be used as well, just sparingly to preserve that mood.

[Hymwen]

I've seen references to non-Zalanthan things all over the place, even in sdescs, and even in descriptions of staff-made things. Hawk-nosed, cat-like, bull-necked, etc. I've even seen 'oriental eyes' somewhere.

In my opinion, as for speech, try to leave out references to non-existent things if at all possible, unless it's the only word that can sufficiently describe what you meant to say. But when it comes to emotes, then I'm much more forgiving. As long as it's not a borderline stupid reference, such as anything that has to do with modern technology, I think it's fine. If someone flips through a dog-eared book, your character doesn't think of a poodle. The person doesn't say it, she does it, and the emote is there to describe it for you to picture it in your mind in the best possible way. I'd much rather see something like that, than some flimsy, pathetic substitute, or having to wait for ten seconds because the player on the other side is sitting there trying to come up with some alternative way of describing a horseshoe-shaped object. For example.

[Sholdyn]

What about RL figures of speech or phrases? One of my characters once said something along the lines of "I wouldn't want to be in her shoes" or "try walking in his shoes for awhile" and the person she was speaking to pretended not to understand what she meant. Ok, not ok?

Now.. I've come across situations where some phrase is very common place, but no where else in the world does anyone use the phrase. Or, for example, I myself had never heard the phrase "shooting the shit" until I came to university.

However, if you are sure that the phrase you are using is reasonably universal, and upon reflection, you don't feel that your phrase is inappropriate for use on Zalanthas, then just be a dick right back.

You say in sirihish, "Feck, I wouldn't want to be in her shoes!"
The snot-faced, shit disturber says, in sirihish, "Huh? In her shoes? What are talking about? What do her shoes have to do with anything?"
Turning to look at the snot-face, shit disturber, you say, in sirihish, "Are you serious? You've never heard that phrase before? Feck, you need to get out more!"

Remember also though, that phrases are fine to use within the common populous may not work within a tribal society.

[WarriorPoet]

I try to keep my emoting Zalanthan, even going as far to throw in the occasional word from my clan or tribe's lexicon, if it's a private scene. I think it adds alot to the atmosphere and makes for more flavorful writing.

However, I don't mind earth terms that aren't found in everyday Zalanthas. Ice-eyed, fishing, sky-blue, fish-lipped etc are all fine, imo. I would never -say- them, but in a descriptive emote it's all good.

If given the choice, I would probably use a Zalanthan synonym, just because it keeps me in the 'groove', but sometimes there isn't an alternative, or, the alternative has gotten stale and overused. Rummages is a fine example.

-WP