NPC Skinner

[Mercy]

So, it struck me today that it seems like it would make sense to have an npc (like the butcher <.< >.>) who you could pay to skin a carcass for you. There should be a limit on it, and maybe restrict certain things all together. But it stands to reason there'd be somewhere you could haul a kill and throw sid at someone to cut it up "proper" for you. Maybe an option to only get edible meat in return, bones, or hide at a discount. Could vary based on the actual location.

I won't assume I have any clue how the code works for corpses, so this could be way more trouble than its worth but it sounds at least interesting. Handy if you need something really specific and don't want to leave it up to chance, or just actually are incapable yourself.

[MeTekillot]

I think the current system that forces you to find a capable PC if you aren't capable yourself is more ideal. You can get (barely) enough meat to survive on by trying and failing yourself. If you're looking for valuable corpse parts or just wanting to get a lot of meat, seeking out a PC with the skinning skill to accompany you or to skin the corpses you bring in encourages more interaction.

[SpyGuy]

I wouldn't want an NPC that could skin anything and give you the cuts.  Part of the fun of playing a class with skinning is being in demand on a hunt.  Master skinning will also fail a lot on more difficult to skin items. And trust me, you need to make sacrifices to get skinning.  No heavy combat classes have it and if you want to play a heavy that skins you need to use your subguild for that.

I think something more limited might work though.   An NPC you can give a chalton (south) or tandu (north) body to and they'll give you a couple cuts of meat back or a little coin. Hauling bodies isn't always easy so there would still be some risk to it.  Would fit nicely with what's in the butcher shop in Nak.

[roughneck]

I wouldn't want an NPC that could skin anything and give you the cuts.  Part of the fun of playing a class with skinning is being in demand on a hunt.  Master skinning will also fail a lot on more difficult to skin items. And trust me, you need to make sacrifices to get skinning.  No heavy combat classes have it and if you want to play a heavy that skins you need to use your subguild for that.

I think something more limited might work though.   An NPC you can give a chalton (south) or tandu (north) body to and they'll give you a couple cuts of meat back or a little coin. Hauling bodies isn't always easy so there would still be some risk to it.  Would fit nicely with what's in the butcher shop in Nak.

Your master skinner PC would still be valuable because corpses are heavy and they don't last. A NPC skinner makes a lot of sense. Surely some 'Nakki citizen with a skinning knife and a bit of know how would have seen the opportunity by now.

[ArmaJunkie]

emote runs as fast as he can back to the marketplace to set up his own skinning tent business! Thanks! Gonna make a mint!

[Mercy]

I wouldn't want an NPC that could skin anything and give you the cuts.

I just want to point out this is not what I'm asking for. I don't want an npc that can skin anything. When I said "There should be a limit on it, and maybe restrict certain things all together" the primary thing that came to mind is anything that has a poison gland. That and limiting the amount of carcasses you can bring in RL span of time so you can't use it as a means to earn a notable income or feed yourself. There's all kinds of motivation behind my reasoning for that, but this isn't something I would want as a catch-all system for getting stuff cut up. More of a stopgap than anything.

Not trying to start debunking other people's input (which is why I left the rest of that alone), just wanted to clarify.

[mansa]

Sounds like using the butcher in a city to give you cuts of meat and bones from a mount.

[SpyGuy]

@Mercy:  Debunk away.  I realize you did say limited.   Like I stated I'd be for an NPC to skin common mobs but with limits. Just spitballing what limits I think are appropriate.

@Roughneck:  Not all bodies are heavy.  IMO there would need to be limits (like only certain NPCs or you just get meat) because there should never be a situation where the NPC is preferable to using a skilled PC.  As someone who usually plays with the skinning skill it would be infuriating to be told IC 'Don't skin the jozhal.  Take it to the butcher so we get the skin.' 

I'm leery of automating away PC jobs.  It might make sense from a realism POV but so does an NPC to turn logs into planks for you or to brew cures from herbs you bring in.   The current class design seems to intentionally lead to skill gaps to encourage PCs to work together.  As an offpeak player this can be frustrating but has also led to plenty of interaction for me.

[Jihelu]

I have no issue with an npc that charges a fee per body to skin and give the materials to the person who offered the body.

[Riev]

What if, after being paid to cut up an animal, those parts then immediately became purchaseable from the attached shop? Give them like.. Jman skinning, and any item that is produced gets sold. So you're looking for raptor bladders, but the hides stay on sale.

Maybe sometimes they pull poison glands or some of the more interesting stuff, but they should be middle-skilled. Finding a PC will always be better.


Now... that said. The one who joked about setting up a stall in the marketplace? You would actually make some good business as a 'concierge butcher'.

[Lotion]

pretty sure the thing that is within the spirit of the game is to just hire someone to skin for you. there's almost always an indie hunting crew trying to be a thing and even so if you want this service make a board post ingame about how amos is so badass but can't skin animals

[Halaster]

From a realism point of view this idea makes sense.  Surely some enterprising individual(s) would want to sell their skills.  But as others have stated, from a playability point of view I think it's best to leave this kind of thing in the hands of players.

[Lotion]

From a realism point of view this idea makes sense.  Surely some enterprising individual(s) would want to sell their skills.  But as others have stated, from a playability point of view I think it's best to leave this kind of thing in the hands of players.

Can you explain what you mean by this?
In general I find that people use "playability" to refer to things that make the game easier to play often at the cost of detracting from some impossibly to obtain yet idealized and put on a pedestal perfect spirit of the game where it is perfectly immersive and OOC related issues do not exist, but because these OOC issues exist we make "sacrifices" away from that perfect armageddon in order to make it easier to play. Adding a skinning NPC would improve the playability of the game.

[Mercy]

From a realism point of view this idea makes sense.  Surely some enterprising individual(s) would want to sell their skills.  But as others have stated, from a playability point of view I think it's best to leave this kind of thing in the hands of players.

Can you explain what you mean by this?
In general I find that people use "playability" to refer to things that make the game easier to play often at the cost of detracting from some impossibly to obtain yet idealized and put on a pedestal perfect spirit of the game where it is perfectly immersive and OOC related issues do not exist, but because these OOC issues exist we make "sacrifices" away from that perfect armageddon in order to make it easier to play. Adding a skinning NPC would improve the playability of the game.

(Not Halaster but I feel compelled to respond)

The impression I get is that it messes with the in-game economy (skill economy, item economy, and actual coin flying around) too much to really be a good idea from a play-ability standpoint. It helps off-peak players, sure, but can cause some ooc awkwardness and reduce player-to-player interaction. I see the point, and I definitely don't have enough access to large scale data to even try and dispute this. I trust staff to have a better grasp on what would inadvertently unbalance the game.

[Halaster]

It's not so much about balance as it is that it would take some things out of players' hands.  There'd be less reason for people to look for other players to help them skin something, instead just going to an npc.  We like to try to encourage interaction between players, so seeking out someone who's really good at skinning to skin something for you accomplishes that.  It would just be one more thing that promotes less interaction between people.

Basically, what these guys said:

Spyguy:

I'm leery of automating away PC jobs.  It might make sense from a realism POV but so does an NPC to turn logs into planks for you or to brew cures from herbs you bring in.   The current class design seems to intentionally lead to skill gaps to encourage PCs to work together.  As an offpeak player this can be frustrating but has also led to plenty of interaction for me.

MeTekillot:

If you're looking for valuable corpse parts or just wanting to get a lot of meat, seeking out a PC with the skinning skill to accompany you or to skin the corpses you bring in encourages more interaction.

Personally (and I'm not necessarily speaking for all staff here), I would be OK with it if the NPC came to be because of players forming a can/business who does this, and they progress along the (new) PClan documentation and work themselves up to being able to have an NPC.  In that scenario, I'd be OK with it.

[Delirium]

The perennial issue is always balance between fostering player interaction, and not making things unduly frustrating for offpeak timezones, and a small playerbase. There may well be nobody in an entire area of the gameworld who it's appropriate to ask to skin something for you, and they might not even be online. That's why I like the idea of it working like the mount butcher.

You can take the corpse to them, they'll skin it and pay you a fraction of the amount's worth of the items they skin from it, and then the items they skin show up in a shop which can be purchased for full, jacked up, standard NPC merchant prices.

As a bonus that would also cut down on the piles of skinned items that aren't in current demand (chalton horns amirite).

So you don't get the items they skin. They pay you for the corpse, and sell what they skin in a shop.

[sucre]

Maybe everyone could have a low level skin cap? So you could at least try to skin a creature? I never knew how to skin things until recently irl, watched a few videos and in person demos, and then it caught on.

I suppose requesting it be added to your PC is always a possibility too.

[Brokkr]

You can try to skin a creature without the skill.  The skinning stuff is set up so that stuff we want to be easier is easier.  Easy enough so that often enough you will get something even without the skill.  With typically the meat being the easiest, so you can feed yourself.

[sucre]

(sorry, I had no idea, I've never played anyone who has skinned anything, ahh.)