endgame combat twinking hot take

[Delirium]

If it's an in-depth explanation of how the code works, and how sparring works, what the 'plateau' is and what it means

I mean how to train effectively, period, and how to roleplay doing so. In particular, how to spar with others so that you both benefit from it, as that can be a tricky wicket for most new players to figure out. Or even, it seems, veterans. This includes combat skills and weapon skills and offense/defense and how they all synergize together.

I do not mean "go hunt this animal while using this combat style when you're at x skill level". That'd be dumb.

Give me a little credit here dude.

[Jihelu]

Maybe the guide can discuss why the fuck I can max out piercing weapons in the time it takes kick to hit fucking apprentice.

[Veselka]

Maybe the guide can discuss why the fuck I can max out piercing weapons in the time it takes kick to hit fucking apprentice.

Clearly ancedote, as we are talking about how 'maxing out a weapon skill is difficult'. I have regularly gotten both kick and bash to advanced and master. You need to fight shit that can kill you and is better than you, full stop.

The issue is people are used to AAA games and the systems they create, or even MMORPG's like WoW, where you start in a newbie zone, become boss of the zone, and move on to the next zone, and increasingly start at the bottom of the food chain until you become the top of the food chain. Where you can safely become a master by the end of the game. These games all share one trait in common -- They are not permadeath. Those that are tend to have both massive rewards for surviving, and incredibly taxing drains when you die. And ArmageddonMUD is the crown prince of Permadeath.

If you are spending your time playing hacky-sack kicking your friends in the Byn, you aren't going to improve at it. You get better at it by kicking something that'll grab your leg, knock your ass down, and possibly kill you. And that seems exactly as it should be.

[Armaddict]

Give me a little credit here dude.

xD

Shit man, I wasn't asking the difference because I thought ill of you, I was asking because I haven't done hard combat in a very long time and I wasn't sure if things were still the way they were when I did, which was that sparring in and of itself wouldn't ever get you there.

[Jihelu]

I have literally never played a bynner past like 1 ig month.
I'm out there kicking:
Raptors
Gith
Spiders
Other shit

>Kick
>Apprentice

[mansa]

I have literally never played a bynner past like 1 ig month.
I'm out there kicking:
Raptors
Gith
Spiders
Other shit

>Kick
>Apprentice

If you have a 50% chance to increase your skill per failure, how many failures do you need to have to guarantee a skillup?

What if it was 25% chance?
What if it was 20%?

[Veselka]

I have literally never played a bynner past like 1 ig month.
I'm out there kicking:
Raptors
Gith
Spiders
Other shit

>Kick
>Apprentice

If you have a 50% chance to increase your skill per failure, how many failures do you need to have to guarantee a skillup?

What if it was 25% chance?
What if it was 20%?

Exactly. People are operating under the false assumption that 'One Missed Kick = 1 gain in Kick' which is not true. It's a percentage chance of gain.

That being said, they might be under that illusion because other skills (Hide/Sneak/hunt/scan/Crafting Skills) Have a higher percentage chance of gaining than combat skills or combat adjacent skills.

[Jihelu]

I'm operating under the assumption that fighting shit for 15 RL days played should see some results.
If the RNG is this bad it should be changed.

[Brytta Léofa]

People are operating under the false assumption that 'One Missed Kick = 1 gain in Kick' which is not true. It's a percentage chance of gain.

I don't know if this has ever been confirmed, but it's certainly consistent with my experience.

And if it is true, I'd really like to see it changed. It's fine that kick and bash take a long time to raise. We can keep that part! What I'd like is for folks who miss two kicks per hour to gain skill at the same rate as folks who miss 30 kicks per hour.

[Lotion]

Enforcer branches disarm from bash, raider branches disarm from kick.
Enforcer branches backstab from piercing weapons.
Enforcer branches master sap (the only source of master sap) from bludgeoning weapons.
Raider branches scan from direction sense.

I think it is beyond reasonable that someone not trying to game the system should be able to branch these in under 200 hours of gameplay on a single character.

[Ender]

I honestly think the way Kick/Bash increase is an artifact of the way combat skills used to be 15 years ago.

You used to be able to spam kick/bash endlessly without any stamina cost and no combat lag.  So it made sense you'd have to kick 30 million times to get a skill increase.

Now there is a real decision point on whether you want to use 'kick' or save the stamina/combat lag for something like flee or another combat skill which means people aren't kicking 10 times a combat anymore.

[Armaddict]

Enforcer branches disarm from bash, raider branches disarm from kick.
Enforcer branches backstab from piercing weapons.
Enforcer branches master sap (the only source of master sap) from bludgeoning weapons.
Raider branches scan from direction sense.

I think it is beyond reasonable that someone not trying to game the system should be able to branch these in under 200 hours of gameplay on a single character.

I dunno, that's kind of what I mean by the perception.  One vantage point says 'These skills branch at this point, so I should get to that point', the other says 'These were placed at these hard to reach places because most people aren't expected to have them', and I have always drifted towards the latter.  I can't speak for the designers of the classes, but I can say that even with previous classes, the viewpoint was not that warriors were expected to grind towards advanced weapon skills, the viewpoint was that very few people would have them and they were the mark of a legendary combatant.

[Lotion]

Enforcer branches disarm from bash, raider branches disarm from kick.
Enforcer branches backstab from piercing weapons.
Enforcer branches master sap (the only source of master sap) from bludgeoning weapons.
Raider branches scan from direction sense.

I think it is beyond reasonable that someone not trying to game the system should be able to branch these in under 200 hours of gameplay on a single character.

I dunno, that's kind of what I mean by the perception.  One vantage point says 'These skills branch at this point, so I should get to that point', the other says 'These were placed at these hard to reach places because most people aren't expected to have them', and I have always drifted towards the latter.  I can't speak for the designers of the classes, but I can say that even with previous classes, the viewpoint was not that warriors were expected to grind towards advanced weapon skills, the viewpoint was that very few people would have them and they were the mark of a legendary combatant.

Advanced weapon skills could be that back when they were a secret. Now I can type help enforcer branching and know that I want to get backstab or sap from my wossname weapon skills.

[Armaddict]

Enforcer branches disarm from bash, raider branches disarm from kick.
Enforcer branches backstab from piercing weapons.
Enforcer branches master sap (the only source of master sap) from bludgeoning weapons.
Raider branches scan from direction sense.

I think it is beyond reasonable that someone not trying to game the system should be able to branch these in under 200 hours of gameplay on a single character.

I dunno, that's kind of what I mean by the perception.  One vantage point says 'These skills branch at this point, so I should get to that point', the other says 'These were placed at these hard to reach places because most people aren't expected to have them', and I have always drifted towards the latter.  I can't speak for the designers of the classes, but I can say that even with previous classes, the viewpoint was not that warriors were expected to grind towards advanced weapon skills, the viewpoint was that very few people would have them and they were the mark of a legendary combatant.

Advanced weapon skills could be that back when they were a secret. Now I can type help enforcer branching and know that I want to get backstab or sap from my wossname weapon skills.

Yes, I'm not talking about it being hidden from you, though.  I'm talking about the knowledge that it's possible versus the expectation that it happens.  I think that may come off dickish to say, but I don't mean it that way, I just mean it as if people who got super buff would send in a request, and say 'Hey, I'm super buff, I've done this and this and this, could you add this skill?'  It would be a rare occurrence, but could happen.  I see those super high capped branches as that being coded into place...so just because it's there, doesn't mean that everyone gets it.  Just that the potential is there.

[mansa]

Yes, I'm not talking about it being hidden from you, though.  I'm talking about the knowledge that it's possible versus the expectation that it happens.  I think that may come off dickish to say, but I don't mean it that way, I just mean it as if people who got super buff would send in a request, and say 'Hey, I'm super buff, I've done this and this and this, could you add this skill?'  It would be a rare occurrence, but could happen.  I see those super high capped branches as that being coded into place...so just because it's there, doesn't mean that everyone gets it.  Just that the potential is there.

Do you remember the Krrx Combat special moves?  Fighting Styles?

[Armaddict]

Yes, I'm not talking about it being hidden from you, though.  I'm talking about the knowledge that it's possible versus the expectation that it happens.  I think that may come off dickish to say, but I don't mean it that way, I just mean it as if people who got super buff would send in a request, and say 'Hey, I'm super buff, I've done this and this and this, could you add this skill?'  It would be a rare occurrence, but could happen.  I see those super high capped branches as that being coded into place...so just because it's there, doesn't mean that everyone gets it.  Just that the potential is there.

Do you remember the Krrx Combat special moves?  Fighting Styles?

Yes!  I got to 'beta test' some of them with my gladiator, they were pretty awesome.