Crafting Difficulty Descriptors

[Pariah]

Unless I'm misunderstanding how rolls work in this game (100% totally possible).

If you have a simple 1-100 chance to do something, as your skill increases the lower that number can be and still "succeed".

So if 1-100 is percent to keep it simple and using Riev's example above that say Mastery of a skill only has a five percent fail rate, that means that you'd have to roll a 1-5 to fail, so the chances of getting a failure on mastery would be pretty damn rare.

Based on playing a few characters who have reach mastery and seen that this is not the case it leads me to believe that there are other factors than simple die rolls.

Now if there are other things that are influencing that die roll, like plus and randoms that apply because of some random factor that we aren't aware, then I would be less inclined to call it a true Random Number Generator issue.

However, we are in the hard spot of noticing it as players, and talking about it, here or possibly in requests but have no idea if this is the vision of the game or not.  Perhaps it's on the list of shit to fix?  Perhaps they simply don't care that it's not as seamless and reliable as it should be?

I understand both sides of the conversation here though, yeah you will occasionally just have shitty roles and should just RP it as such, "Man I cut the shell when I killed that scrab so it broke." etc.  However, I also do see the frustration with certain systems and rarer ingredients that you are technically a master at failing.  It's hard to roleplay being a super proficient cure maker for instance when you fail to make a cure five times in a row.

We also as non-coders have no idea how hard it is to change this. It could be something buried in years of legacy code that if you fix stonecrafting breaks every other craft.  I don't know how interdependent things are as just a dude who types craft thing 2.thing into #1.

My only advice I can give to help you possibly get clarity or a "real" answer will be to send in a request as a question to staff about it when you're playing a character that has the master whatever skill and you notice things being silly or what you feel is unrealistic.  Because then you can give actual evidence from your side, hey I was playing tuesday night and broke three scrab shells in a row on an effortless craft, is there any way you could look at this?

It's frustrating as fuck, but lots of things on this game are frustrating as fuck and technically "working as intended."

[Delirium]

Okay change 'effortless' to 'very easy' and I guess all this quibbling over semantics will be solved....

[Tranquil]

Okay change 'effortless' to 'very easy' and I guess all this quibbling over semantics will be solved....

This whole thread really does seem sort of pointless, especially considering it's all over semantics on a system that's widely known has 'common sense' modifiers. Even a grand master would fuck up carving a figurine out of a stick with his bare hands, or a mostly broken carving knife. Aren't there better things to focus on?

Like..

checks hate cycle

.. slings?

[Riev]

Okay change 'effortless' to 'very easy' and I guess all this quibbling over semantics will be solved....

Yes. This. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

The issue is either semantics, or code. If nobody believes its a code issue, then just change it to 'very easy' instead of effortless.

I don't know why thats such a hard thing. What is the resistance to this kind of change, where you can literally do a find + replace

[Khorm]

Okay change 'effortless' to 'very easy' and I guess all this quibbling over semantics will be solved....

What is the resistance to this kind of change, where you can literally do a find + replace

EFFORTLESS as that may be, it's probably not that simple and requires at least a few other obnoxious steps. would guess it ranks pretty low on the list of pressing shit to do.

you can literally get your mud client to find + replace effortless with whatever you want.

[Khorm]

i did it.

https://imgur.com/a/BbHRGab

----------------------------------KNIFE MAKING----------------------------------
4) some bullshit                                   very easy   | -none-
5) some other bullshit                         very easy   | -none-

doesn't even get more effortless than that

edit: since doing this i have failed two very easy crafts and it's never felt better

[Riev]

I am not going to code things on my end, to change words. Thats not an acceptable alternative.

[Khorm]

ok

[LindseyBalboa]

If your argument is 'it doesn't matter to anyone else so just change it for the couple of people that are really bothered by the word choice it's just semantics,' I'm not sure why changing it client-side doesn't fix that issue. It's just word choice and semantics, and a simple enough script you can probably just look it up and copy/paste it with a change or two.

Again, doesn't matter to me, but it also doesn't seem to have far-reaching effects. Nobody's asking for changes to the process of crafting, which would affect other people, and change the game. It's as cosmetic as changing your input/output colors.

I'm actually thinking of changing 'effortless' to read 'impossible to fail' in my client, just to keep me humble.

[mansa]

If your argument is 'it doesn't matter to anyone else so just change it for the couple of people that are really bothered by the word choice it's just semantics,' I'm not sure why changing it client-side doesn't fix that issue. It's just word choice and semantics, and a simple enough script you can probably just look it up and copy/paste it with a change or two.

Again, doesn't matter to me, but it also doesn't seem to have far-reaching effects. Nobody's asking for changes to the process of crafting, which would affect other people, and change the game. It's as cosmetic as changing your input/output colors.

I'm actually thinking of changing 'effortless' to read 'impossible to fail' in my client, just to keep me humble.

This whole thread is a semantics argument.  That is the point of it.

[LindseyBalboa]

This whole thread is a semantics argument.  That is the point of it.

but... exactly.

[mansa]

This whole thread is a semantics argument.  That is the point of it.

but... exactly.

And your solution for the problem many players have stated is to:
a) have a player research what client they use
b) figure out if there's some code available as an addon
c) learn to code
d) implement something to interpret the game text and replace what is written

?

[LindseyBalboa]

And your solution for the problem many players have stated is to:
a) have a player research what client they use
b) figure out if there's some code available as an addon
c) learn to code
d) implement something to interpret the game text and replace what is written

?

... I have to point out the hilarity of a WHOLE STEP being dedicated to LEARNING WHAT CLIENT YOU USE. Thank you for that.

And it's not many. It's a few. Seven, maybe, who have chimed in, with less than that saying it's important to them. It's a small problem (edited: I don't mean small in how important it is to someone. I can't judge that. I mean in terms of the functionality of the game) for a few people that can easily be fixed by anyone that finds an issue with the wording, by spending 20 minutes figuring it out on your own - even if you break it into a hundred steps, it's still just a Google search and some copy/paste action. You could even then share that solution with one another, if it's a problem so important that people should be spending time on it.

However, it's becoming pretty clear that any solution besides "staff has to listen to me when I have a problem" is not going to be acceptable, and I have no stake in that. If it's all or nothing, then keep fighting that fight.

[Khorm]

i just wanna point out that there is a six minute gap between my suggestion and its implementation.

that's how long it took me to google it, copy and edit the snippet that i found, get it into my client, take a screenshot and upload it to imgur, then post it.

six minutes.

if not effortless than at least very easy.

[mansa]

Please help me do that.

I use GMUD as my client.

[hyzhenhok]

If your argument is 'it doesn't matter to anyone else so just change it for the couple of people that are really bothered by the word choice it's just semantics,' I'm not sure why changing it client-side doesn't fix that issue. It's just word choice and semantics, and a simple enough script you can probably just look it up and copy/paste it with a change or two.

Again, doesn't matter to me, but it also doesn't seem to have far-reaching effects. Nobody's asking for changes to the process of crafting, which would affect other people, and change the game. It's as cosmetic as changing your input/output colors.

I'm actually thinking of changing 'effortless' to read 'impossible to fail' in my client, just to keep me humble.

This whole thread is a semantics argument.  That is the point of it.

I mean not really.  Some of said easy crafts should not fail so frequently at high skill levels no matter what you label the difficulty. Literally the second post was you saying that there must a base minimum failure rate for all crafts, even the easy ones, which others such as myself said is silly. It's pretty clear that the skill bonuses and crafting DCs are out of whack compared to both (1) what they would be like like in traditional D&D and (2) other skill systems in the game.

I understand that realistically a code overhaul to make easy crafts feel a little better for master craftsmen is not going to happen, but that's not excuse to pretend the system is perfect as currently implemented except for a superficial disagreement on semantics.

[Khorm]

Please help me do that.

I use GMUD as my client.

install mudlet and call it 12 minutes

[mansa]

Please help me do that.

I use GMUD as my client.

install mudlet and call it 12 minutes

So your solution is to stop playing the game how I've been playing it over the past 20 years, and to play a different game.

[Maso]

Wow this thread.

Can someone just add "Change effortless to 'very easy' or 'simple' in the crafting menu" to the QoL thread and then this conversation can be put out of its misery?

[Patuk]

Please help me do that.

I use GMUD as my client.

install mudlet and call it 12 minutes

So your solution is to stop playing the game how I've been playing it over the past 20 years, and to play a different game.

Your solution is to change 20 year old code to something different, too.

[Khorm]

Please help me do that.

I use GMUD as my client.

install mudlet and call it 12 minutes

So your solution is to stop playing the game how I've been playing it over the past 20 years, and to play a different game.

it'll be the same game, except now you'll be able to rest easy at night knowing that failing a very easy craft isn't so implausible.

also....................................

you use mudlet. what?

[Khorm]

i get that i'm being a bit of a shithead here and it's probably not the most effective way to illustrate my point.

the discussion is important and i will agree that failing effortless tasks and wasting 1k worth of ingredients sucks.

once the discussion has been boiled down and decided to be one about semantics i start to wonder- okay. now what? what's the next step?

whether i like it or not, the game is a collaboration and i'm just as much a part of that as any member of staff. we're always going to have different priorities but we all have a responsibility to make it fun and entertaining. if i'm given the opportunity to take care of one of the those things myself... why not just do it and move on to the next thing?

denying responsibility for your own engagement and enjoyment of a 20+ year hobby strikes me as a non-starter. this thread is a marginal example of that, but it's something i see echoed a lot on the gdb.

[th3kaiser]

This whole thread is ridiculous.